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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

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Dewey
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#821 » by Dewey » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:37 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Dewey wrote:
Jedzz wrote: Not a bad topic at all. Does trading all the picks combined for a better established player fit in the Trading Out category, or is trading out just considered trading for future assets? I think Philly is going to ask for more value for say Simmons than a single pick and filler bodies as appears has been discussed here lately. Simmons might be one of those players Dlo/Towns would be seeking instead of new rookies. Booker of course the other. What Dlo/Towns want around them or who might get along with them might need to be in the equation. If they are actually constructing something real that is.

Plus, the trade out topic might save some from hours of google translating their own thoughts into dizzying phantasmagoric scenarios if the team can get down to 1 or zero picks, and the roster isn't forced to flip entirely for 3 new picks either.


Simply put... I believe all the signs are there that we will exhaust all efforts to pick up a 3rd piece to go along with DLo and KAT.

Option 1: move out of the draft for a core player (ex: Beal, Simmons, Booker)...
Option2: trade down to pick up asset (player and/or future pick, etc)
Option 3: select #1 &#17 and done

Pulling off option #1 is maybe 50/50 at best but I do believe the front office thinks they can get the right pieces to fit around them.

Booker just sold his house. He must be coming to Minnesota. :D

just like that :swami:
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#822 » by KGdaBom » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:54 pm

Dewey wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Dewey wrote:
Simply put... I believe all the signs are there that we will exhaust all efforts to pick up a 3rd piece to go along with DLo and KAT.

Option 1: move out of the draft for a core player (ex: Beal, Simmons, Booker)...
Option2: trade down to pick up asset (player and/or future pick, etc)
Option 3: select #1 &#17 and done

Pulling off option #1 is maybe 50/50 at best but I do believe the front office thinks they can get the right pieces to fit around them.

Booker just sold his house. He must be coming to Minnesota. :D

just like that :swami:

Obviously. There can be no other reason to sell your house other than preparing for a trade to the Timberwolves. :D
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#823 » by Jedzz » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:37 pm

minimus wrote:[
Many MIN fans understand that the roster we had a year before had three serious issues:

* - shooting
* - passing, ballhandling
* - defense

The difference between Rosas and Thibs vision is...


After trade deadline our new assembled roster without any preparation and chemistry, without KAT, showed promising improvement in terms of shooting, passing and ballhandling. Ryan "plugged" new players in the same offense and they showed whether they fit. One big confirmation of alignment between strategy and tactic in our case is how new players who brought here FO, played under our coaching staff.

* - DLo is an excellent fit
* - JJ is an excellent fit
* - Beasley is an excellent fit
* - Juancho is an excellent fit
* - Vanderbilt is an excellent fit

Now lets compare with players who our previous FO brought here and how they played under HC.

* - Hill did not play
* - Aldrich did not play
* - Teague awful fit, backup PG who is paid as starter
* - Dieng is paid starter money, but could not play starter
* - Gibson was a bad fit was a good player here
* - Wiggins regressed
* - JC was a bad fit, ISO scorer
* - Rose was a badquestionable fit, ISO scorer was a good player here
* - Butler a good fit as skillset, awful fit in locker room personal opinion

It is funny because it might seem that our FO and HC under Thibs were two different persons with completely opposite vision.
Not really. It would seem that part of the FO and their main young star had different visions than Thibs the GM/HC and weren't going to allow him his vision. Sure, some questionable signings as well.

Back to our current HC...


Wait, wait, wait.

First, let's not forget about who else the current GM brought here. You skip to deadline trades as if we didn't sit through a wasted season first. A larger list. Correct me if I missed someone.

* - Treveon Graham - waste of time, terrible fit for 40 tres offense (starter - really?)
* - Shabazz Napier - decent bench pg capable of playing with other guards, showed a little better yet as sole pg in system
* - Noah Vonleh - waste of time if they weren't going to allow him the bench 5 duties of 1-3-1 and rarely did.
* - Bell (?) - was he also Rosas? Another waste of space if not willing to fit him into 1-3-1 plans. Depth bodies I guess.
* - Jarrett Culver - was dumped minutes upon, and pg duties when not ready/didn't fit him. playcreator fairytales fell thru
* - Jake Layman - interesting talent, fragile/soft, improved team while he played
* - Nowell - drafted to G league-shined-GameIQ/Range backburnered team access - 3pt shot didn't break through in NBA yet
* - Reid - G league - interesting range of talents, not as much defense or rebounding developed yet as might hope.
* - McLaughlin - G league - showed perfect system fit, showed even better as sole pg leading offense, capable of starter fill in
* - Kelan Martin - G league - showed fit in system, game IQ is there, hard on himself instead of brushing off plays
* - Allen Crabbe - reclamation attempt off trade(?) - failed
Deadline Trade Ins
* - DLo is an excellent fit Check
* - JJ is an excellent fit Check / Fans want to dump as trade tool
* - Beasley is an excellent fit Check / Fans want to 6th man or let walk instead of pay
* - Juancho is an excellent fit Check / many fans trying to replace
* - Vanderbilt is an excellent fit - Played 5 minutes, did nothing. No proof yet of excellent fit. Assumptions/hope
* - Jacob Evans Played 2 minutes/nothing
* - Omari Spellman never suited up for team
* - Evan Turner never suited up for team


Now that all the names are hopefully listed, and true wasted season time/fits/etc are seen. Carry on with your great descriptions of the differences in player choices/movements that show how great it's been since Thibs. Yet to be realized even if I agree and hope it's getting better at this point.
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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#824 » by minimus » Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:53 am

Read on Twitter


KAT for sure has it
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#825 » by minimus » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:25 pm

Two "good" KATs games within "old" offense:



And one video about MIN five-out scheme:


A few things I noticed:

* - the difference between first two videos and the last one is how static, almost stagnant our offense looked even with KAT. Five-out scheme requires a lot of ball movement and off ball movement, but I am impressed how natural it looked for Reid, JMac, DLo, JJ, Okogie, Beasley and Juancho. Even without training camp, without preseason they were able to run it. Even more impressive that Reid, JMac had no NBA experience
* - it does not make any sense to put a "static" player at PF. Perfect example from these videos was Wiggins. Even though he played at wings and as ballhandler, his presence killed fluid ball movement. Sure PF next to KAT will be a low usage player, while Wiggins had high usage in MIN, but still. Juancho is exposed in MIN defense as starting PF because he cant defend in space, but he is mobile, and shoots at high rate/percentage from 3pt line. Dynamic PF is a must for five-out system. Either he should provide slashing ability or shooting, combined with defensive versatility and in ideal scenario above average passing ability
* - Rosas wants BPA over fit, but one thing I clearly see that our young role players are very good fit for five-out. JMac, Martin, Nowell, Reid, Vanderbilt, Layman, Okogie and Culver. They all fit this system. Sure they all have glaring weaknesses, but fit is there
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#826 » by Klomp » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:55 pm

minimus wrote:A few things I noticed:

* - the difference between first two videos and the last one is how static, almost stagnant our offense looked even with KAT. Five-out scheme requires a lot of ball movement and off ball movement, but I am impressed how natural it looked for Reid, JMac, DLo, JJ, Okogie, Beasley and Juancho. Even without training camp, without preseason they were able to run it. Even more impressive that Reid, JMac had no NBA experience
* - it does not make any sense to put a "static" player at PF. Perfect example from these videos was Wiggins. Even though he played at wings and as ballhandler, his presence killed fluid ball movement. Sure PF next to KAT will be a low usage player, while Wiggins had high usage in MIN, but still. Juancho is exposed in MIN defense as starting PF because he cant defend in space, but he is mobile, and shoots at high rate/percentage from 3pt line. Dynamic PF is a must for five-out system. Either he should provide slashing ability or shooting, combined with defensive versatility and in ideal scenario above average passing ability
* - Rosas wants BPA over fit, but one thing I clearly see that our young role players are very good fit for five-out. JMac, Martin, Nowell, Reid, Vanderbilt, Layman, Okogie and Culver. They all fit this system. Sure they all have glaring weaknesses, but fit is there

This is such a huge part of the system, and why I'd go as far as to consider Obi Toppin as a more likely fit here than either James Wiseman or Onyeka Okongwu. Ultimately, not sure any are highly likely, but I'd put Toppin and Avdija at the top for offensive fits next to Towns.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#827 » by gandlogo » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:07 pm

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:A few things I noticed:

* - the difference between first two videos and the last one is how static, almost stagnant our offense looked even with KAT. Five-out scheme requires a lot of ball movement and off ball movement, but I am impressed how natural it looked for Reid, JMac, DLo, JJ, Okogie, Beasley and Juancho. Even without training camp, without preseason they were able to run it. Even more impressive that Reid, JMac had no NBA experience
* - it does not make any sense to put a "static" player at PF. Perfect example from these videos was Wiggins. Even though he played at wings and as ballhandler, his presence killed fluid ball movement. Sure PF next to KAT will be a low usage player, while Wiggins had high usage in MIN, but still. Juancho is exposed in MIN defense as starting PF because he cant defend in space, but he is mobile, and shoots at high rate/percentage from 3pt line. Dynamic PF is a must for five-out system. Either he should provide slashing ability or shooting, combined with defensive versatility and in ideal scenario above average passing ability
* - Rosas wants BPA over fit, but one thing I clearly see that our young role players are very good fit for five-out. JMac, Martin, Nowell, Reid, Vanderbilt, Layman, Okogie and Culver. They all fit this system. Sure they all have glaring weaknesses, but fit is there

This is such a huge part of the system, and why I'd go as far as to consider Obi Toppin as a more likely fit here than either James Wiseman or Onyeka Okongwu. Ultimately, not sure any are highly likely, but I'd put Toppin and Avdija at the top for offensive fits next to Towns.


Without a doubt Avdija and Toppin are better fits offensively - in the offense the Wolves want to run. At this point I would argue that being switchable on defense is more important than rim protection. Not just for the Wolves, but league wide. That’s where I still have some heartburn with Toppin. Maybe he can improve with better awareness and scheme.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#828 » by Dewey » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:27 pm

gandlogo wrote:
Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:A few things I noticed:

* - the difference between first two videos and the last one is how static, almost stagnant our offense looked even with KAT. Five-out scheme requires a lot of ball movement and off ball movement, but I am impressed how natural it looked for Reid, JMac, DLo, JJ, Okogie, Beasley and Juancho. Even without training camp, without preseason they were able to run it. Even more impressive that Reid, JMac had no NBA experience
* - it does not make any sense to put a "static" player at PF. Perfect example from these videos was Wiggins. Even though he played at wings and as ballhandler, his presence killed fluid ball movement. Sure PF next to KAT will be a low usage player, while Wiggins had high usage in MIN, but still. Juancho is exposed in MIN defense as starting PF because he cant defend in space, but he is mobile, and shoots at high rate/percentage from 3pt line. Dynamic PF is a must for five-out system. Either he should provide slashing ability or shooting, combined with defensive versatility and in ideal scenario above average passing ability
* - Rosas wants BPA over fit, but one thing I clearly see that our young role players are very good fit for five-out. JMac, Martin, Nowell, Reid, Vanderbilt, Layman, Okogie and Culver. They all fit this system. Sure they all have glaring weaknesses, but fit is there

This is such a huge part of the system, and why I'd go as far as to consider Obi Toppin as a more likely fit here than either James Wiseman or Onyeka Okongwu. Ultimately, not sure any are highly likely, but I'd put Toppin and Avdija at the top for offensive fits next to Towns.


Without a doubt Avdija and Toppin are better fits offensively - in the offense the Wolves want to run. At this point I would argue that being switchable on defense is more important than rim protection. Not just for the Wolves, but league wide. That’s where I still have some heartburn with Toppin. Maybe he can improve with better awareness and scheme.

This is where I'd consider the MN/CHI deal ... #1/Culver for #4 Markenan/Future FRP ... draft Avdija @ #4.

DLo/Beasley/Avdija/Markenan/KAT
McL/Okogie/Layman/Hernangomez/Reid

Gives better balance but uncertain if it moves the needle enough ... we'd gain some skill, but gain little defensively. Just stirring the pot here.
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#830 » by UnFadeable21 » Yesterday 12:51 am

Minnesota Timberwolves


2020

Evan Turner

Malik Beasley (restricted)

Juan Hernangomez (restricted)

James Johnson (player)

Jordan McLaughlin (restricted)

Kelan Martin (restricted)

2021

Jarred Vanderbilt (restricted)
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#831 » by Jedzz » Yesterday 2:51 am

UnFadeable21 wrote:Minnesota Timberwolves


2020

Evan Turner

Malik Beasley (restricted)

Juan Hernangomez (restricted)

James Johnson (player)

Jordan McLaughlin (restricted)

Kelan Martin (restricted)

2021

Jarred Vanderbilt (restricted)


Oddly enough, none of those players were here in the previous season, and most of them weren't here before February of this year. They are all just as likely to be gone as stay at this point if you believe a majority of people here. That large group also probably doean't even account for half the roster moves made by Rosas since he took over.

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