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southern wolf wrote:I like the idea of bringing Culver off the bench as the sixth man scoring punch at least to start off with.

I tend to agree. I really like pairing him with Napier.

KAT, Layman, Cov, Culver, Teague is our best 5 imo.

Rookie-Mistake wrote:KAT, Layman, Cov, Culver, Teague is our best 5 imo.

KAT/Layman/RoCo/Culver/Okogie/Napier

minimus wrote:

Rookie-Mistake wrote:KAT, Layman, Cov, Culver, Teague is our best 5 imo.

KAT/Layman/RoCo/Culver/Okogie/Napier

That's 6 and a violation

Klomp wrote:

minimus wrote:

Rookie-Mistake wrote:KAT, Layman, Cov, Culver, Teague is our best 5 imo.

KAT/Layman/RoCo/Culver/Okogie/Napier

That's 6 and a violation

Lol could not decide between Okogie and Napier

Teague/Wigs/Layman/Cov/Kat to start
Napier/Culver/Okogie/Vonleh 2nd unit.

I watched the 2 televised preseason games, and I like the new additions as role players.
Teague and Wiggins are just so bad, they drag everything else down. Problem is that right now they are more talented than the guys behind them.
Teague is one of the softest players I have ever seen.

I like Napier's quickness and his ability to stay in front of guys. I can see him stealing minutes from Teague.
Culver - I like his IQ and effort. He is already pretty good defensively. Still too skinny and shot is shaky. If he can transform his body as he ages he could be pretty good because the skills are there.

I would like a 3rd ballhandler, especially when Wiggins is out there, but I would probably start Layman right now.
He looks like a good glue guy, and his cutting and shooting should play off of KAT well.
We are going to miss having Rose and Taj in the rotation.
Okogie's lack of offensive skills doesnt play well on either the first or 2nd unit, but his energy may be needed on the 2nd unit more with a more ball-dominant Napier.

What is this new offense? Looks like a lot of pick-up basketball to me. Where is all of this KAT Jokic action we are supposed to be seeing? The spacing looks better, but our lack of shooters is obvious. Wiggins looks like same old Wiggins.

I should admit that I was low on Graham during off-season. Now I love his toughness. He is also making these simple passes that we need. An underrated move by our FO

minimus wrote:An underrated move by our FO

That trade is looking like such a steal!

So far what I see this young season is this. We actually do have the personnel to go up against the best teams in the league defensively, but Saunders needs to understand 2 things:

1. Starting Linuep FLEXIBILITY
2. Offensive philosopy flexibility

Nobody can guard the freak, nobody. BUT, I think what we did find last night is that neither Graham nor Okogie should ever be matched up to defend him. Okogie is a great defender, but he's just too small to make a dent against him. I DO believe that both Bell AND Vonleh should always be on the floor alongside KAT to defend the freak. When he gets the ball at the top of the key, either of those players has the size, length, and quickness to either slow him down a bit, make him think twice about driving the hoop - as long as they sag back to 15 feet and dare him to take the mid-range shot. When Vonleh did that in the 2nd half, dropping back into the lane and spreading those condor wings, the freak saw that and didn't try driving. Yes, he was given the 18 footer, but that's what you want with him. Also, if he DOES get it in the low post, Vonleh or Bell have a much better chance at defending him as compared to Graham or Okogie.

So against the Bucks or Sixers, my starting lineup has 2 bigs every time and either Vonleh or Bell guards the more dominant big, keeping KAT from getting into foul trouble. Obviously with 2 bigs out there, the offensive philosophy will obviously change a little. Or will it? KAT would be able to play on the perimeter in that lineup and the 3 pointers could still flow. Vonleh or Bell's job would be screen setters and also make sure they position themselves to stay "out of the way" for the other 4 to do their thing in space.

IF, and I say IF, Culver turns a huge corner, having him in the lineup in a 2-big lineup would be huge, as he would provide additional ball handling and playmaking that you lose from starting a 2nd big. So PG / Culver / SF / VonBell / KAT would be my lineup against the biggest and best teams in the nba, again, assuming Culver turns a huge corner. Maybe this is a "next year" plan, but the point is, Culver would provide the lost play making that starting an extra big would not provide. Who would be the SF in that scenario? Depends on who the opponent is or who has the hot hand. If Wigs has been hot then it's him. If he hasn't then it's Cov, but be flexible in your thinking coach.

Rambling on, I know, but I actually do see a way to contend with the biggest, best teams in the nba with this squad, and that excites me!

Wiggins solid play changed so much for us.

I would expect Reid, Martin and at some point Nowell to push Graham, Dieng out of rotation. I am okay with Ryan/Rosas attempts to to make Teague, Dieng a bit more attractive in trades before trade deadline.

According to basketball-reference.com our Off Rtg is 106.9 (19th of 30), Def Rtg is 108.7 (16th of 30). Which passes eye test. We clearly had bad luck with KAT, Wiggins, Okogie, Teague, Layman missing games, but this is part of NBA reality.

Reid, Martin and hopefully Nowell can bring some offense, while I feel like Martin has physical tools to become an adeguate defender at SF.

I wonder if KAT-RoCo-Martin-Culver/Okogie-Wiggins lineup will be good enough to make push into playoff run for 8th seed.
Bench is deep enough with Vonleh/Reid-Layman-Graham-Okogie-Teague/Napier

I feel bad for KBD, he started strong in Iowa hitting 3s. I wish he show consistent effort and hustle in defense, to earn minutes.

Overall I'm happy with direction and dynamic of development of young players. A big trade is coming.

younggunsmn wrote:Teague/Wigs/Layman/Cov/Kat to start
Napier/Culver/Okogie/Vonleh 2nd unit.

I watched the 2 televised preseason games, and I like the new additions as role players.
Teague and Wiggins are just so bad, they drag everything else down. Problem is that right now they are more talented than the guys behind them.
Teague is one of the softest players I have ever seen.

I like Napier's quickness and his ability to stay in front of guys. I can see him stealing minutes from Teague.
Culver - I like his IQ and effort. He is already pretty good defensively. Still too skinny and shot is shaky. If he can transform his body as he ages he could be pretty good because the skills are there.

I would like a 3rd ballhandler, especially when Wiggins is out there, but I would probably start Layman right now.
He looks like a good glue guy, and his cutting and shooting should play off of KAT well.
We are going to miss having Rose and Taj in the rotation.
Okogie's lack of offensive skills doesnt play well on either the first or 2nd unit, but his energy may be needed on the 2nd unit more with a more ball-dominant Napier.

What is this new offense? Looks like a lot of pick-up basketball to me. Where is all of this KAT Jokic action we are supposed to be seeing? The spacing looks better, but our lack of shooters is obvious. Wiggins looks like same old Wiggins.

Everything in this post regarding Wiggins is spot on lol. 1 month ago and this post aged horribly

I really wish we have DLo type of PG who can:

a) run PnR, PnP with KAT
b) shoot 3s after kickout pass from KAT when KAT is double teamed in the post
c) big enough to shoot over defender

?t=241

Watch Culver gets wide open on perimeter twice after KAT passes. You need here someone like Culver to bring the ball to KAT, but he cant shoot. Playing here Teague, Nowell, Martin or Okogie, is not effective either because you need a good ballhandler and passer.

minimus wrote:I really wish we have DLo type of PG who can:

a) run PnR, PnP with KAT
b) shoot 3s after kickout pass from KAT when KAT is double teamed in the post
c) big enough to shoot over defender

Watch on YouTube

?t=241

Watch Culver gets wide open on perimeter twice after KAT passes. You need here someone like Culver to bring the ball to KAT, but he cant shoot. Playing here Teague, Nowell, Martin or Okogie, is not effective either because you need a good ballhandler and passer.

No need for dlo, Wiggins works the pnr and pnp with towns perfectly.

DaKid wrote:

minimus wrote:I really wish we have DLo type of PG who can:

a) run PnR, PnP with KAT
b) shoot 3s after kickout pass from KAT when KAT is double teamed in the post
c) big enough to shoot over defender

Watch on YouTube

Watch Culver gets wide open on perimeter twice after KAT passes. You need here someone like Culver to bring the ball to KAT, but he cant shoot. Playing here Teague, Nowell, Martin or Okogie, is not effective either because you need a good ballhandler and passer.

No need for dlo, Wiggins works the pnr and pnp with towns perfectly.

That's correct. Wiggins is perfect when he attacks downhill. What I am speaking about is feeding KAT in post and hitting open 3s after kickouts on perimeter. These are different dimensions of offense.

minimus wrote:

DaKid wrote:

minimus wrote:I really wish we have DLo type of PG who can:

a) run PnR, PnP with KAT
b) shoot 3s after kickout pass from KAT when KAT is double teamed in the post
c) big enough to shoot over defender

Watch on YouTube

Watch Culver gets wide open on perimeter twice after KAT passes. You need here someone like Culver to bring the ball to KAT, but he cant shoot. Playing here Teague, Nowell, Martin or Okogie, is not effective either because you need a good ballhandler and passer.

No need for dlo, Wiggins works the pnr and pnp with towns perfectly.

That's correct. Wiggins is perfect when he attacks downhill. What I am speaking about is feeding KAT in post and hitting open 3s after kickouts on perimeter. These are different dimensions of offense.

Sorry, I misunderstood. In that case though, we still don't need a dlo, we just need someone that can hit open 3's. I think Culver will get to that point if he is on the court with Wiggins and Towns

DaKid wrote:

minimus wrote:

DaKid wrote:
No need for dlo, Wiggins works the pnr and pnp with towns perfectly.

That's correct. Wiggins is perfect when he attacks downhill. What I am speaking about is feeding KAT in post and hitting open 3s after kickouts on perimeter. These are different dimensions of offense.

Sorry, I misunderstood. In that case though, we still don't need a dlo, we just need someone that can hit open 3's. I think Culver will get to that point if he is on the court with Wiggins and Towns

I hope for this, but usually it takes at least 2-3 years to develop a consistent jumpshot.

minimus wrote:

DaKid wrote:

minimus wrote:
That's correct. Wiggins is perfect when he attacks downhill. What I am speaking about is feeding KAT in post and hitting open 3s after kickouts on perimeter. These are different dimensions of offense.

Sorry, I misunderstood. In that case though, we still don't need a dlo, we just need someone that can hit open 3's. I think Culver will get to that point if he is on the court with Wiggins and Towns

I hope for this, but usually it takes at least 2-3 years to develop a consistent jumpshot.

I would love to pair Wiggins with a guy like Reddick in the backcourt but that's not happening. At least not yet. But, no matter what, in my opinion we need to pair Wiggins with another wing in the backcourt that can shoot 3s. No need for a ball dominant pg or another big, find another wing that can hit 3s and defend. In a perfect world we should have 3 3&d wings surrounding towns and Wiggins. Roco fits that roll, now we need 2 more

DaKid wrote:

minimus wrote:

DaKid wrote:
Sorry, I misunderstood. In that case though, we still don't need a dlo, we just need someone that can hit open 3's. I think Culver will get to that point if he is on the court with Wiggins and Towns

I hope for this, but usually it takes at least 2-3 years to develop a consistent jumpshot.

I would love to pair Wiggins with a guy like Reddick in the backcourt but that's not happening. At least not yet. But, no matter what, in my opinion we need to pair Wiggins with another wing in the backcourt that can shoot 3s. No need for a ball dominant pg or another big, find another wing that can hit 3s and defend. In a perfect world we should have 3 3&d wings surrounding towns and Wiggins. Roco fits that roll, now we need 2 more

I am afraid that it won't work. In current NBA you need at least two capable ballhandlers/passers to create a consistent offensive flow.

minimus wrote:

DaKid wrote:

minimus wrote:
I hope for this, but usually it takes at least 2-3 years to develop a consistent jumpshot.

I would love to pair Wiggins with a guy like Reddick in the backcourt but that's not happening. At least not yet. But, no matter what, in my opinion we need to pair Wiggins with another wing in the backcourt that can shoot 3s. No need for a ball dominant pg or another big, find another wing that can hit 3s and defend. In a perfect world we should have 3 3&d wings surrounding towns and Wiggins. Roco fits that roll, now we need 2 more

I am afraid that it won't work. In current NBA you need at least two capable ballhandlers/passers to create a consistent offensive flow.

There are many wings that are more than capable ballhandlers and passers. And with the change of offensive systems, there is less need for true pgs. That is why you see more and more teams running 2s, 3's and 4's as primary ball handlers successfully

DaKid wrote:

minimus wrote:

DaKid wrote:
I would love to pair Wiggins with a guy like Reddick in the backcourt but that's not happening. At least not yet. But, no matter what, in my opinion we need to pair Wiggins with another wing in the backcourt that can shoot 3s. No need for a ball dominant pg or another big, find another wing that can hit 3s and defend. In a perfect world we should have 3 3&d wings surrounding towns and Wiggins. Roco fits that roll, now we need 2 more

I am afraid that it won't work. In current NBA you need at least two capable ballhandlers/passers to create a consistent offensive flow.

There are many wings that are more than capable ballhandlers and passers. And with the change of offensive systems, there is less need for true pgs. That is why you see more and more teams running 2s, 3's and 4's as primary ball handlers successfully

Sure, if you have LeBron at PF/SF you can play your defense without real PG. However, the way our salaries distributed we have major part of salaries at С (KAT+Dieng) and PG (Wiggins+Teague), this leaves us only with players with bargain contracts at PF/SF/SG. From financial standpoint it explains why we play RoCo/Graham/Layman/Culver/Okogie group at wings.

I don't see any realistic trade scenario where we bring here an elite player at PF/SF/SG so I expect this trend to continue for 1-2 seasons more.