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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#421 » by Mattya » Mon May 11, 2020 4:36 pm

KGdaBom wrote:How about adding this guy to the former Denver Nuggets group.

Jerami Grant is unlikely to pick up his $9 million player option for next season.
This isn't really "news" on Grant, but he should be an interesting free agent if he does opt out. He has really shown improvement on the offensive side, making 39.6% from deep over the last two seasons. That's way up from the 30.1% he shot in his career prior to those two years, and he's shown he's not just a dunker. Grant's off-ball defense should make him coveted in the free-agent market, and the Nuggets' interest will likely have to do with Paul Millsap's decision.

RELATED: Adam Silver
SOURCE: The Athletic
May 10, 2020, 3:04 PM ET


Unless we make trades we won't have the space to sign Grant if he is opting out of a $9 million deal.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#422 » by Klomp » Mon May 11, 2020 4:37 pm

If he's not picking up that option, he probably thinks he's going to get better money than that, or at least similar. We're gonna be maxed out at the MLE, and I'm not sure it'll be enough.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#423 » by KGdaBom » Mon May 11, 2020 10:22 pm

Mattya wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:How about adding this guy to the former Denver Nuggets group.

Jerami Grant is unlikely to pick up his $9 million player option for next season.
This isn't really "news" on Grant, but he should be an interesting free agent if he does opt out. He has really shown improvement on the offensive side, making 39.6% from deep over the last two seasons. That's way up from the 30.1% he shot in his career prior to those two years, and he's shown he's not just a dunker. Grant's off-ball defense should make him coveted in the free-agent market, and the Nuggets' interest will likely have to do with Paul Millsap's decision.

RELATED: Adam Silver
SOURCE: The Athletic
May 10, 2020, 3:04 PM ET


Unless we make trades we won't have the space to sign Grant if he is opting out of a $9 million deal.

I think he would be a great fit for us. It's up to Rosas and his staff to figure out how to make it happen.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#424 » by minimus » Mon May 18, 2020 3:57 pm

I think that it will be really an offseason when we have to find 4th and 5th role players (low profile) in lineup. We need to re-sign Beasley because he is a part of identity, but when it comes to 4th and 5th man in starting unit I think its doable. Let say we get either Aaron Gordon or Caris LeVert. It should much easier to find a 5th complimentary player when KAT-DLo-Beasley will be playing. Also any further development of Martin, Okogie, Culver, Vanderbilt, Nowell will allow us to have some financial flexibility and offensive/defensive versatility. I also believe that Layman will have a big impact next season. For instance, lineup KAT-DLo-Beasley-Gordon-Harkless checks all boxes. Other variants:

KAT-DLo-Beasley-Crowder-(Patrick Williams)
KAT-DLo-Beasley-(Glenn Robinson III)-(JaMychal Green)
KAT-DLo-Beasley-(Glenn Robinson III)-(JaMychal Green)
KAT-DLo-Beasley-(Joe Harris)-(Paul Reed)
KAT-DLo-Beasley-(Harkless)-(Juancho/Tyler Bey)

The key is new Beasley contract. There are some examples of players who missed big contracts, such as Latrell Sprewell, Noel, Shabazz Muhammad, Bonzi Wells etc. I really hope that Rosas and Malik's agent can make it done earlier so we will have whole offseason to continue to build our roster. There is also a possibility that offseason will be short, because of changed season end/start date.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#425 » by minimus » Sun May 24, 2020 9:49 am

Some interesting facts:

1) JMac and KAT share highest ORtg in MIN team - 121.
2) JMac has #8 highest AST:TO - 4.03 in NBA, surprisingly Nowell has #1 AST:TO - 6.33
3) JMac is #2 in TS among rookie guards in NBA - 58,7%.
4 ) KAT, JMac and Juancho are the only MIN active players who have positive NETRtg. JMac has ORtg 121, DRtg 113.
5) The 2-Guard combination of Jordan McLaughlin and D’Angelo Russell has a 123.8 offensive rating and a 100 defensive rating (+23.8 net rating) in 32 minutes.
6) JMac is an underrated dunker







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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#426 » by Killboard » Sun May 24, 2020 2:56 pm

minimus wrote:Some interesting facts:

1) JMac and KAT share highest ORtg in MIN team - 121.
2) JMac has #8 highest AST:TO - 4.03 in NBA, surprisingly Nowell has #1 AST:TO - 6.33
3) JMac is #2 in TS among rookie guards in NBA - 58,7%.
4 ) KAT, JMac and Juancho are the only MIN active players who have positive NETRtg. JMac has ORtg 121, DRtg 113.
5) The 2-Guard combination of Jordan McLaughlin and D’Angelo Russell has a 123.8 offensive rating and a 100 defensive rating (+23.8 net rating) in 32 minutes.
6) JMac is an underrated dunker









Minimus, do you have an opinion on Killian Hayes since he is playing in Germany? I could not find full games, just highlights. Theorically he has a 6'8 wingspan and is 210 pounds for which he has the required size to play in 2 PG lineups. I know he has not been great from 3 but his FT% is like 88% which many times is an indicator of shooting prowress, and he seems to take proud on defense.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#427 » by minimus » Sun May 24, 2020 5:44 pm

Killboard wrote:Minimus, do you have an opinion on Killian Hayes since he is playing in Germany? I could not find full games, just highlights. Theorically he has a 6'8 wingspan and is 210 pounds for which he has the required size to play in 2 PG lineups. I know he has not been great from 3 but his FT% is like 88% which many times is an indicator of shooting prowress, and he seems to take proud on defense.


Not much. I was intrigued about him before hype, because I saw some impressive ballhandling and three point shooting ability. As I understood, he decided not to return to Germany after hiatus, so I have no chance to see him live.

I ranked him as top10 draft pick, but his skillset overlaps with DLo. It is true that you can always play guys who can shoot, pass and defend their position, but I want us to get a talented slasher, more than another shooter. In my opinion our offense might get a stagnant when we face a good active defense, because our backcourt DLo-Beasley lacks slashing ability. Saying this I would be happy if we draft him in top5.

My current favorite player is Tyrese Maxey. Here is why. I have been rewatching good JMac games, and I noticed how many opportunities we create for skilled slashers, who can balance between scoring and involving others. Tyrese has showed killer instinct and overall feel for the game, while being a plus defender.
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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#428 » by minimus » Sun May 24, 2020 5:48 pm

Read on Twitter


Okogie is a special player. Hope he will play many successful seasons for MIN.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#429 » by Klomp » Sun May 24, 2020 6:05 pm

minimus wrote:My current favorite player is Tyrese Maxey. Here is why. I have been rewatching good JMac games, and I noticed how many opportunities we create for skilled slashers, who can balance between scoring and involving others. Tyrese has showed killer instinct and overall feel for the game, while being a plus defender.

I would agree with this.

I know my previous comments make it seem like I don't like McLaughlin or I think he needs to be replaced, but it's not that at all. For what he brings to the second unit as a facilitator, he's very good. My whole argument was that if the team shrinks rotation sizes at all, a less-versatile McLaughlin would probably lose out to someone who can fill multiple roles on the second unit and who gives the rotation some variance. I'm not replacing McLaughlin in the role he has. What I'm saying is that other roles might leapfrog the role McLaughlin has as better players are brought in.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#430 » by minimus » Sun May 24, 2020 7:52 pm

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:My current favorite player is Tyrese Maxey. Here is why. I have been rewatching good JMac games, and I noticed how many opportunities we create for skilled slashers, who can balance between scoring and involving others. Tyrese has showed killer instinct and overall feel for the game, while being a plus defender.

I would agree with this.

I know my previous comments make it seem like I don't like McLaughlin or I think he needs to be replaced, but it's not that at all. For what he brings to the second unit as a facilitator, he's very good. My whole argument was that if the team shrinks rotation sizes at all, a less-versatile McLaughlin would probably lose out to someone who can fill multiple roles on the second unit and who gives the rotation some variance. I'm not replacing McLaughlin in the role he has. What I'm saying is that other roles might leapfrog the role McLaughlin has as better players are brought in.


I think that nowadays being small and quick can create a serious advantage, it is just a consequence of current league trying to be more versatile, more wing oriented than ever. That is why going big or going small might create a massive matchups. LAL decided to go big, with McGee, AD, DH, LeBron. PHI went big with Simmons, Horford, Embiid, Harris. HOU went small. BOS went small.

JMac's biggest strength is balance. That is why he has been able to explore advantages that our system creates when we play fast, small. His quickness + sharp decision making allows him to penetrate defense when it is not set, or already broken by ball movement or improved spacing. We must re-sign him, because he plays like a veteran. He brings stability to our backcourt.

I agree that Tyrese Maxey role might be different from JMac's. One thing I found interesting is that Eric Gordon and James Harden are defending postups very well (cant find exact stats right now), they try to bump players out of good position as they both are around 220lbs. So they invite opponent to execute postup against these players based on height advantage, instead of attacking in other ways, knowing that they can a) execute double team b) let Gordon, Harden, Westbrook try to defend without fouling.

At some point we will need to either add comboguards like Tyrese Maxey, Jahmi'us Ramsey, Desmond Bane, or develop Okogie, Culver, Nowell into two way players. We need balance, we need guys who can play within our system on both end of the floor. As much as I like Okogie, Culver, Nowell as prospects they are not there yet. Although, I am very impressed by some skills showed by this guys:

1) Okogie hustle, PoA defense, dump off passes, rebounding
2) Culver team defense, defensive versatility, rebounding, hustle
3) Nowell suprising effort in defense, slashing ability, #1 rank in AST:TO in whole NBA (small sample)
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#431 » by minimus » Mon May 25, 2020 2:50 pm

How many bad shooters we can have in rotation? The answer lies depends how high can KAT/DLo/Beasley trio can elevate our offense. Lets take GSW as an example. They had KD/Curry/Klay or Barnes/Curry/Klay trio, which allowed them to play multiple bad shooters. Draymond Green, Shaun Livingston, Iggy. They all played important role during their championship seasons. However, it was elite shooting ability from Klay and Curry that allowed to build whole team around. Sure, Green, Klay developed into top NBA defenders, Livingston and Iggy were defensive minded veterans with supreme athletic ability, but first thing was offensive identity.

I think considering age of our players, we might be just one trade, one draft, one season away from building our own identity. Rosas situation as GM is difficult, but he has been working tirelessly to make it more doable.

1) Josh Okogie, 21 yo. 6'3", 7' wingspan, 215lbs. Excellent athletic tools: wingspan, quickness, strength. This year, improved FG%, TS%, rebounding, rebounding, top3 among NBA non-centers in FT rate. Has two more years of rookie contract. Future role: primary PoA defender, 3&D player

2) Jarred Vanderbilt, 21 yo. 6'9", 7'1" wingspan, 215lbs. Very mobile, great hands, but not explosive leaper. Missed almost season with injuries in Kentucky and Denver. He has showed some potential in gleague as smallball PF because of his rebounding and passing ability. Has two more years of rookie contract. Future role: backup defensive minded PF defender. Can improve as defender significantly if he adds strength

3) Jarrett Culver. 20 yo. 6'5", 6'9" wingspan, 195lbs. Great athlete, but not elite. Has excellent jumping ability, but is not an explosive leaper. Good instincts in offense and defense. Has great hands in defense. Has three more years of rookie contract. He has showed some very good defense for rookie. Future role: versatile team defender, secondary ballhandler, facilitator. Can improve as defender significantly if he adds strength

4) Kelan Martin. 24 yo. 6'7", 7'1" wingspan, 230lbs. Strong, long for a wing. Can score from everywhere. Future role: big versatile wing, backup SF/SG

5) Jaylen Nowell 20 yo. 6'3", 6'7" wingspan, 200lbs. A bit undersized for SG. Gives effort in defense. Can score from everywhere. Future role: backup comboguard

6) Naz Reid 20 yo. 6’10", 7'0", 255 lbs. Naz had injury before draft, and failed most of test such as bench press (weak even for a wing), fat %. Very mobile, has good hands. Improved a lot during season as defender. Future role: backup C. Can improve as defender significantly if he adds strength and shed weight. Ceiling:

All these six guys dont have any serious limits in terms of athletic ability. They all can improve a lot. I hope to see our coaching staff working on some fundamentals such as closeout technique, footwork in defense, communication etc. I hope they will be able to align our young players to play smart defense, for instance, to avoid necessary fouls, we will see big improvement in defense.

We have three draft picks. Some defenders who we can draft:

1) Okoro - excellent athlete, versatile defender with promising slashing and passing game. Bad shooter. My comparison: Justise Winslow.
2) Devin Vassell - consensus the best 3&D prospect of this draft. My comparison: Thabo Sefolosha
3) James Wiseman - mobile, athletic, long big. My comparison: Hassan Whiteside
4) Tyrese Haliburton - long comboguard. My comparison: post injury Shaun Livingston with some inconsistent 3pt shooting
5) Onyeka Okongwu - mobile big. My comparison: Montrezl Harrell
6) Josh Green - strong, athletic guard. My comparison: Danny Green
7) Patrick Williams - strong, tough comboforward. My comparison: Treveon Graham with 3pt shot
8) Tyler Bey - mobile, athletic comboforward. My comparison: Kenneth Faried with defense
9) Paul Reed - defensive minded big. Undersized for C. My comparison: Keyon Martin

Players who might be available in trade talks: Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert.
Players who might be available in FA market: Moe Harkless, Jae Crowder.

I am eager to see what our roster for 2020-21 season will be. For many years, I feel excitement for this team.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#432 » by Jedzz » Mon May 25, 2020 5:58 pm

Little bit of concern for Okogie's knees. Didn't make it far into this season and started missing games. Minutes limited in subsequent games due to this.

Less concerned than I would be say for a maxed player with knee issues. But still. He's got a wild aspect to his high motor antics, the type of things that brought early Brewer comparisons. Those awkward positions he gets into and works hard for might be demanding on those knees.

Good luck to the kid.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#433 » by Klomp » Mon May 25, 2020 6:10 pm

Jedzz wrote:Little bit of concern for Okogie's knees. Didn't make it far into this season and started missing games. Minutes limited in subsequent games due to this.

Missed a total of two games this season.

Average minutes before games missed: 25.1
Average minutes after games missed: 25.0
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#434 » by karch34 » Mon May 25, 2020 9:42 pm

So one thing I was thinking about was if we do move JJ in a trade, depending on what we get back, KAT and DLo could wind up being our most grizzled vets. Assuming we are looking at the same age range in a trade we likely wind up with someone who maybe only has 2 or 3 years more than those two. If so how big a concern is vet for the youngsters? I don't have anyone in mind but always felt Mitchell and Porter were a key to KG and Co making the leap.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#435 » by Jedzz » Mon May 25, 2020 11:47 pm

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Little bit of concern for Okogie's knees. Didn't make it far into this season and started missing games. Minutes limited in subsequent games due to this.

Missed a total of two games this season.

Average minutes before games missed: 25.1
Average minutes after games missed: 25.0


I think I can find more relevant games around the injury and not use season averages to show different. But I won't bother to. The only reason to would be to show how this was just another example of you being a troll here to people you don't like. But it's evident enough without looking up game by game examples. Enjoy yourself being you.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#436 » by Jedzz » Tue May 26, 2020 1:22 am

karch34 wrote:So one thing I was thinking about was if we do move JJ in a trade, depending on what we get back, KAT and DLo could wind up being our most grizzled vets. Assuming we are looking at the same age range in a trade we likely wind up with someone who maybe only has 2 or 3 years more than those two. If so how big a concern is vet for the youngsters? I don't have anyone in mind but always felt Mitchell and Porter were a key to KG and Co making the leap.


I would guess or suggest it's really important to the season to have a few Vets that play and that can do some things to help lead in rough moments. I read way too many people with lack of respect for the carrying moments of games vets offer. We got a little taste of that finally from players like Taj and even Luol Deng in his minor injury replacement moments of minutes, and more recently Covington. They win games by carrying teams through moments of games by just doing everything right even when the chips are down.

-Minimus has suggested someone like Gordon and he's like Kat or Wiggins era, right? Not sure that solves the age/leadership vet thing for me. Likely need another even if Gordon is brought in.
-Also have heard Bertāns name a while ago. He's a good age at 27 and obviously shoots well.
-Cheaper vet wings? Not sure. Jae Crowder is 30 and has been suggested. He's a SF although Rosas and Ryan might use him as a PF. Like Crowder, and hope he plays the same now at 30 yet.
-Could maybe make a run at trying to get Rubio Back.
-Could try and talk Bucks into moving Pat Connaughton. You would think they need some roster room soon, and he's 27 and would bring game IQ, some slashing and finishing above rim as well as shooting from the combo guard roll, maybe even could be seen as regular switching wing on this team if going small so often.

-I think a cheaper vet guard could be handy for wins now instead of drafting one. Especailly since we already have a young Dlo and may try to keep a young Beasley. Although I don't think they need one if they retain JMac. Like Minimus says, JMac already plays like a Vet.

-I really think for a young vet it might be worth talking to Wizards about Moritz Wagner. I think he's really starting to display vet skills and awareness on the court already from what I saw this season but he's only 23 and fits the age group otherwise. He's given KAT fits before and he could be versatile as a backup center/PF here. Maybe even starting PF next to Kat. Can shoot, has really improved shooting from rookie season, and can play physical and smart ball already. Cost maybe from 4-6MM. I wonder what Wolves would need to give in trade? Reid and (?). Cheaper than JJ money anyway and he seems to come with his own competitive edge that we would be losing from moving JJ. Idk, might instead choose to keep Reid instead.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#437 » by karch34 » Tue May 26, 2020 4:55 am

Crowder would be a vet with playoff experience that could be a nice fit in that he'd still get meaningful minutes. Thing with him and others is how much $ and interest in contender.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#438 » by SaintS » Tue May 26, 2020 6:09 am

karch34 wrote:So one thing I was thinking about was if we do move JJ in a trade, depending on what we get back, KAT and DLo could wind up being our most grizzled vets. Assuming we are looking at the same age range in a trade we likely wind up with someone who maybe only has 2 or 3 years more than those two. If so how big a concern is vet for the youngsters? I don't have anyone in mind but always felt Mitchell and Porter were a key to KG and Co making the leap.

Totally agree, but quality vets costs money. If i remember correct Twolves won't have too much possibility for signing players. But how much room we have for the free agents ?
If we look at the roster now and take into account resigning of RFAs + at least 2 first round picks we'll have 15 players. Nevertheless we have to search vets who agrees for a vet min.
It depends on the JMac situation but we can bring back Napier as a back up pg for a team. I see as a potential guard rotation players J.Holiday and Nwaba. But i don't see a possibility that proven vets like Crowder or Harkless or Lee or Clarkson choose Minnesota
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#439 » by minimus » Tue May 26, 2020 7:33 am

Jedzz wrote:Little bit of concern for Okogie's knees. Didn't make it far into this season and started missing games. Minutes limited in subsequent games due to this.

Less concerned than I would be say for a maxed player with knee issues. But still. He's got a wild aspect to his high motor antics, the type of things that brought early Brewer comparisons. Those awkward positions he gets into and works hard for might be demanding on those knees.

Good luck to the kid.


I think that it might be a consequence of playing with national team, and SL league and having basically no rest during summer.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#440 » by minimus » Tue May 26, 2020 7:38 am

karch34 wrote:So one thing I was thinking about was if we do move JJ in a trade, depending on what we get back, KAT and DLo could wind up being our most grizzled vets. Assuming we are looking at the same age range in a trade we likely wind up with someone who maybe only has 2 or 3 years more than those two. If so how big a concern is vet for the youngsters? I don't have anyone in mind but always felt Mitchell and Porter were a key to KG and Co making the leap.


Yes, that is a big question to me as well. In GSW case, I have read multiple things about Bogut impact as veteran, raising defensive intensity in practice, being physically imposing in defense: good screens, hard fouls etc. Draymond Green said that Bogut showed him a lot of nuances of team and post defense. We need capable veterans, but I have no idea who might provide that presence.

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