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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#741 » by Klomp » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:27 pm

shrink wrote:I like Martin, but I doubt he’s back. We just don’t have the roster spaces.

8 players we owe guaranteed money (KAT, Russell, Johnson (po), Culver, Layman, Okogie, Evans, Spellman)
2 free agents with Bird rights (Beasley, Juancho)
1 or more MLE (not using it when FA salaries will be cheaper by Covid is wasting an asset)
1 cheap FA (McLaughlin)
3 cheap team options (Naz, Vanderbilt Nowell)
3 picks (#1, #17, #33)

Martin is #19, and we need to get to #15. I don’t think we can find four on this list that would be more valuable (or cost us less to remove with Evans) to justify a spot for Martin.

I don't believe they'd get rid of Martin before getting rid of Evans or Spellman. Now you're down to 17. Do they try to keep him on a two-way deal?
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#742 » by shrink » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:39 pm

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:I like Martin, but I doubt he’s back. We just don’t have the roster spaces.

8 players we owe guaranteed money (KAT, Russell, Johnson (po), Culver, Layman, Okogie, Evans, Spellman)
2 free agents with Bird rights (Beasley, Juancho)
1 or more MLE (not using it when FA salaries will be cheaper by Covid is wasting an asset)
1 cheap FA (McLaughlin)
3 cheap team options (Naz, Vanderbilt Nowell)
3 picks (#1, #17, #33)

Martin is #19, and we need to get to #15. I don’t think we can find four on this list that would be more valuable (or cost us less to remove with Evans) to justify a spot for Martin.

I don't believe they'd get rid of Martin before getting rid of Evans or Spellman. Now you're down to 17. Do they try to keep him on a two-way deal?

They’d have to pay to get off of Evans at this point. I’m not sure if the same is true for Spellman - he might have a little value, but they’d stay on the cap unless someone trades straight cap space for them. I suppose you could limit yourself and only take a euro with the #33. But even if you do all that, I think you still end up having to choose between giving a contract to McLaughlin or Martin.

But who knows? With Roller Coaster Rosas manning the trade machine, we might only have two of the same players on the roster when the season starts than we do right now!
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#743 » by old school 34 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:41 pm

shrink wrote:
Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:I like Martin, but I doubt he’s back. We just don’t have the roster spaces.

8 players we owe guaranteed money (KAT, Russell, Johnson (po), Culver, Layman, Okogie, Evans, Spellman)
2 free agents with Bird rights (Beasley, Juancho)
1 or more MLE (not using it when FA salaries will be cheaper by Covid is wasting an asset)
1 cheap FA (McLaughlin)
3 cheap team options (Naz, Vanderbilt Nowell)
3 picks (#1, #17, #33)

Martin is #19, and we need to get to #15. I don’t think we can find four on this list that would be more valuable (or cost us less to remove with Evans) to justify a spot for Martin.

I don't believe they'd get rid of Martin before getting rid of Evans or Spellman. Now you're down to 17. Do they try to keep him on a two-way deal?

They’d have to pay to get off of Evans at this point. I’m not sure if the same is true for Spellman - he might have a little value, but they’d stay on the cap unless someone trades straight cap space for them. I suppose you could limit yourself and only take a euro with the #33. But even if you do all that, I think you still end up having to choose between giving a contract to McLaughlin or Martin.

But who knows? With Roller Coaster Rosas manning the trade machine, we might only have two of the same players on the roster when the season starts than we do right now!
Assuming you don't hit the lux with all your moves....you could just eat Evans deal (only a year after declining options)...same for Spellman if came to that but he probably still has at least neutral value for someone?

So while Evans is guaranteed...that shouldn't prevent us from one of those other guys if we want them.

But Shrink your the expert on the cap stuff...I'm not missing something there?

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#744 » by shrink » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:59 pm

I don’t think you’re missing anything CBA-related. Obviously, every player we waive costs us cap space, and Taylor pays someone for zero production, and obviously dead cap is not great use of payroll.

The other thing I’d mention is that suppose we have 15 players on the roster (waived Evans, traded our 2nd for future 2nds, and .. I don’t know, don’t bring back Juancho?), and we need to find one last roster spot for Martin. Even if he agrees to a deal starting at $1.66 mil, and we’d have to dump, say Spellman’s $2 mil, that effectively means he costs us $3.66. Is it better to spend $3.66 mil on Martin, or $2 mil on Spellman, and save $1.6? I think Spellman, even if we end up trading him.

I’m not saying Martin is a bad player, and he did well with the opportunities we gave him last year when we were decimated with injuries. I just don’t think that he makes the final roster cut.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#745 » by KGdaBom » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:48 pm

shrink wrote:I don’t think you’re missing anything CBA-related. Obviously, every player we waive costs us cap space, and Taylor pays someone for zero production, and obviously dead cap is not great use of payroll.

The other thing I’d mention is that suppose we have 15 players on the roster (waived Evans, traded our 2nd for future 2nds, and .. I don’t know, don’t bring back Juancho?), and we need to find one last roster spot for Martin. Even if he agrees to a deal starting at $1.66 mil, and we’d have to dump, say Spellman’s $2 mil, that effectively means he costs us $3.66. Is it better to spend $3.66 mil on Martin, or $2 mil on Spellman, and save $1.6? I think Spellman, even if we end up trading him.

I’m not saying Martin is a bad player, and he did well with the opportunities we gave him last year when we were decimated with injuries. I just don’t think that he makes the final roster cut.

I think you make the case pretty well.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#746 » by Klomp » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:19 am

I'd try to trade Spellman and/or Evans for 2021 2nds....
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#747 » by Jedzz » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:45 am

Maybe not the right thread, but D'Antoni to survey options.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#748 » by minimus » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:52 am

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I hope to see such plays from our coaching staff for KAT and Dlo, when KAT can uses his mobility and DLo can uses his elite wingspan. Instead of running deep drop scheme against every opponent.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#749 » by Klomp » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:05 pm

Pretty much who you'd expect

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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#750 » by minimus » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:15 pm

Interesting fact: DEN are 15th of 16 bubble teams in terms of pace. Which seems understandable because Jokic might be the less athletic center in entire NBA and whole DEN offense is built around Serbian. There are a lot of similarities between KAT/DLo and Jokic/Murray, however I don't see us playing such a slow pace, moreover I see us running at full speed. I don't see us playing Millsap type of PF next to KAT, I am wondering whether recent Vanderbilt praise from Rosas and Ryan might be a good indication of what type of PF they want.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#751 » by minimus » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:35 pm

minimus wrote:Interesting fact: DEN are 15th of 16 bubble teams in terms of pace. Which seems understandable because Jokic might be the less athletic center in entire NBA and whole DEN offense is built around Serbian. There are a lot of similarities between KAT/DLo and Jokic/Murray, however I don't see us playing such a slow pace, moreover I see us running at full speed. I don't see us playing Millsap type of PF next to KAT, I am wondering whether recent Vanderbilt praise from Rosas and Ryan might be a good indication of what type of PF they want.


After first game DEN vs LAL, I think that the best direction for us is to make this team even more dynamic. Let me explain. I think dynamic offense means combination of following things:

* - multiple shooters on the floor who create centers of gravity on perimeter, creating opportunities for off-ball movement
* - multiple ballhandlers and passers on the floor who facilitate, move the ball
* - mobile, versatile big man who can score both down low, from 3pt or by slashing, rolling to the basket
* - big 3&D wings who can defend in space

Saying this I think we already have a solid foundation for it

* - Beasley, Juancho, DLo, KAT, JMac, Reid, Layman are shooters.
* - DLo, KAT, JMac can pass
* - KAT is an elite offensive minded big man, Reid might develop into the same type of big man
* - Layman is a big wing, Culver has potential to be 3&D

We clearly must to re-sign at least Beasley, JMac. If possible, re-sign Juancho and Martin. But even if we re-sign them to team-friendly deals, we need to add a few players. Here is the list of players I would get to fill these needs:

1) one high potential ballhandler - Killian Hayes (FRP)
2) one big wing 3&D - Jae Crowder (full MLE)
3) one mobile, athletic PF - Vanderbilt (develop and insert in rotation)
4) defensive minded backup big man Xavier Tillman (#17 pick)

Final roster:

KAT/Reid/Tillman
Crowder/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Culver/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/Hayes/JMac

Let compare this with:

Adebayo/Olynik/Meyers
Crowder/Jones Jr
Bulter/Iggy
Robinson/Herro
Dragic/Nunn

I like KAT-Crowder-Culver-Beasley-DLo starting five, I also like high scoring bench mod Reid-Juancho-Layman-Okogie-Hayes, and third string defensive minded five Tillman-Vanderblit-Martin-Nowell-JMac.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#752 » by Neeva » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:45 pm

Tillman might be available at 33 though. Wolves can not pass on Maxey or Anthony (one of them should be available at 17). if one of them fall to Miami or Philly ugh, they will become stars there.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#753 » by minimus » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:05 pm

Neeva wrote:Tillman might be available at 33 though. Wolves can not pass on Maxey or Anthony (one of them should be available at 17). if one of them fall to Miami or Philly ugh, they will become stars there.


Thats what I hoped, before someone on this board wrote that Tillman has promise from NBA team to be selected in first round. Maybe this team is MIN, who knows :wink:

I am so high on Tillman because I dont see much PF/SF in this draft who have higher potential than Tillman/Vanderblit/Juancho/Culver/Layman combination who are worth our FRP. I'd rather draft Hayes who have chance to be a star.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#754 » by KGdaBom » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:21 pm

Neeva wrote:Tillman might be available at 33 though. Wolves can not pass on Maxey or Anthony (one of them should be available at 17). if one of them fall to Miami or Philly ugh, they will become stars there.

I have very little interest in Maxey or Anthony. I'm starting to come around on Tillman. He's the very good passing big right? If Rosas checks him out and deems him worthy of 17 I would have no problem with him being the pick. Seems like a poor man's Jokic.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#755 » by Neeva » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:24 pm

minimus wrote:
Neeva wrote:Tillman might be available at 33 though. Wolves can not pass on Maxey or Anthony (one of them should be available at 17). if one of them fall to Miami or Philly ugh, they will become stars there.


Thats what I hoped, before someone on this board wrote that Tillman has promise from NBA team to be selected in first round. Maybe this team is MIN, who knows :wink:

I am so high on Tillman because I dont see much PF/SF in this draft who have higher potential than Tillman/Vanderblit/Juancho/Culver/Layman combination who are worth our FRP. I'd rather draft Hayes who have chance to be a star.


I think maybe Boston with one of their late first round picks? I don’t see Tillman going in the top 20.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#756 » by KGdaBom » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:26 pm

minimus wrote:
Neeva wrote:Tillman might be available at 33 though. Wolves can not pass on Maxey or Anthony (one of them should be available at 17). if one of them fall to Miami or Philly ugh, they will become stars there.


Thats what I hoped, before someone on this board wrote that Tillman has promise from NBA team to be selected in first round. Maybe this team is MIN, who knows :wink:

I am so high on Tillman because I dont see much PF/SF in this draft who have higher potential than Tillman/Vanderblit/Juancho/Culver/Layman combination who are worth our FRP. I'd rather draft Hayes who have chance to be a star.

I'm starting to like Tillman, but thinking we are well stocked at PF/SF is IMO looking at those positions with Rose colored Glasses. Layman and Juancho were just a bit below adequate. Culver was too small and Vanderbilt didn't even play.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#757 » by minimus » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:44 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Neeva wrote:Tillman might be available at 33 though. Wolves can not pass on Maxey or Anthony (one of them should be available at 17). if one of them fall to Miami or Philly ugh, they will become stars there.


Thats what I hoped, before someone on this board wrote that Tillman has promise from NBA team to be selected in first round. Maybe this team is MIN, who knows :wink:

I am so high on Tillman because I dont see much PF/SF in this draft who have higher potential than Tillman/Vanderblit/Juancho/Culver/Layman combination who are worth our FRP. I'd rather draft Hayes who have chance to be a star.

I'm starting to like Tillman, but thinking we are well stocked at PF/SF is IMO looking at those positions with Rose colored Glasses. Layman and Juancho were just a bit below adequate. Culver was too small and Vanderbilt didn't even play.


I think Tillman can play similar to Bam Adebayo role. Small ball defensive minded big, who can finish at rim and pass. So he is more C/PF to me than pure PF. About Culver at SF, I think he is big enough to play this position, it looks like he gained some muscles this offseason and he still have three months to work in gym. The question is whether he can hit league average 35% from 3pt. It also drives me crazy that Wiggins in five years could not put 10-15 lbs of muscles.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#758 » by minimus » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:38 pm

Watching Bam and Jokic playing on the highest level in the bubble, I am trying to think how much KAT unique skillset can be used to generate opportunities for MIN offense. In other words, how we should use KAT in order to put him in the best position to succeed as the main option in the offense.

NOTE: please completely ignore music in videos

1) despite being a good post scorer, KAT might benefit from getting cross screens


MIN ran something similar for Kevin Love as far as I remember.

2) multiple handoffs with shooters/slashers


3) pin down actions (my favorite play for KAT)


4) high PnRs with Dlo + short rolls



It requires a really elite level of passing and decision making, but I can see KAT making this element part of his games because he is a better shooter than Green and better slasher than Jokic.

One thing I hope we will see moving forward is Beasley, running the floor hard and creating this kind of gravity to make things easier for KAT.


The very first possession is Beasley running hard in fastbreak, beating LAC defense and finding an open corner 3pt shot opportunity. Here is a video about MIA shooters with similar first possession


Here you can watch how Robinson and Herro complement MIA slashers. I like MIA offense a lot, because it is so dynamic. They are so fluid. Bam and Butler are bad 3pt shooters, but Spo really has been doing a great job by implementing an offensive scheme where players play their strengths.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#759 » by minimus » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:53 pm

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#760 » by KGdaBom » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:35 am

This guy is a fantasy basketball analyst, but I think he has some real good objective takes on all the Wolves players for real life basketball. He discusses every Wolves player.


One thing he points out is that Beasley offers pretty much NOTHING other than scoring. I still like Beasley, but being realistic he isn't all that special.

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