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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#781 » by minimus » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:48 am

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:
Klomp wrote:One thing I'm reminded of is how Rosas and Saunders have repeatedly talked about player development being so important. You saw the beginnings of it from the Rockets, but they abandoned it once they remembered they're a bigger market and more bigger names will want to play there (see: Howard, Paul, Westbrook, etc). Similar situation in Brooklyn and Philadelphia. These are all places where current Timberwolves front office members came from. I'm not sure they'll have that luxury in Minnesota, so development will probably be a bigger emphasis than quick fixes. They made room for and inserted Reid into the regular rotation before he was probably ready. They traded away veterans in front of Jordan McLaughlin. These aren't flashy moves, but they're the types of moves I think Minnesota will continue to make going forward at least another year.

That is correct. For instance, I have been asking myself whether Vanderbilt's development is something our FO is going to prfioritize this season. Last season we traded Dieng and Saric to make room for Reid and Juancho.

It will be important to remember that prioritizing development won't necessarily mean giving him rotational minutes right away. I could easily see a similar season-long trajectory as Reid had this season, starting him in the G League before he works his way into the rotation by midseason.


I would agree, but there some factors that should be taken into consideration:

* - next season won't be a normal NBA season. Vanderbilt and other young players had an extremely long offseason before the mini-bubble. He put a lot of work that might result in faster development
* - he has last year in his contract. we need to see whether he can play at NBA level. unfortunately, he spent two years in g-league.
* - both starting PF and backup PF positions are vacant. Reid did not play much at the beginning of last season because we had KAT and Dieng, as big men in 1-3-1 rotation, but after KAT injured his wrist and Dieng was traded, Reid played many minutes. I also would not say that Reid was prepared for such a workload, right before hiatus he looked tired.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#782 » by Klomp » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:54 am

minimus wrote:* - both starting PF and backup PF positions are vacant. Reid did not play much at the beginning of last season because we had KAT and Dieng, as big men in 1-3-1 rotation, but after KAT injured his wrist and Dieng was traded, Reid played many minutes. I also would not say that Reid was prepared for such a workload, right before hiatus he looked tired.

Are you only saying this because of Johnson's option and Hernangomez's free agency? Because they're both ahead of Vanderbilt. As for Reid, I'm not even talking about him starting. Minnesota traded Dieng to insert Reid in his place before the Towns injury. The injury thrusted him into an even bigger role.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#783 » by minimus » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:57 am

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:* - both starting PF and backup PF positions are vacant. Reid did not play much at the beginning of last season because we had KAT and Dieng, as big men in 1-3-1 rotation, but after KAT injured his wrist and Dieng was traded, Reid played many minutes. I also would not say that Reid was prepared for such a workload, right before hiatus he looked tired.

Are you only saying this because of Johnson's option and Hernangomez's free agency? Because they're both ahead of Vanderbilt. As for Reid, I'm not even talking about him starting. Minnesota traded Dieng to insert Reid in his place before the Towns injury. The injury thrusted him into an even bigger role.


I dont see the point of playing JJ major minutes... This sounds like a Thibs 'win-now' move that does not make any difference long term. Juancho is a big question to me... Is he a backup PF we need?
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#784 » by Klomp » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:06 pm

minimus wrote:I dont see the point of playing JJ major minutes... This sounds like a Thibs 'win-now' move that does not make any difference long term. Juancho is a big question to me... Is he a backup PF we need?

I don't think people give Hernangomez enough credit. He averaged 13/7 after the trade on 42% 3-point shooting. Why do Wolves fans not value him higher?

Johnson is a vet mentor, who can still provide value on the court. His leadership is underrated.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#785 » by minimus » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:21 pm

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:I dont see the point of playing JJ major minutes... This sounds like a Thibs 'win-now' move that does not make any difference long term. Juancho is a big question to me... Is he a backup PF we need?

I don't think people give Hernangomez enough credit. He averaged 13/7 after the trade on 42% 3-point shooting. Why do Wolves fans not value him higher?

Johnson is a vet mentor, who can still provide value on the court. His leadership is underrated.


I like both JJ and Juancho as players. But an uncertainty with Juancho contract situation and JJ as our most important asset in possible trade scenarios make me a bit nervous about PF position. With draft postponed to October 16, I can't stop thinking about the draft, offseason :banghead: What makes even more nervous, is the fact that Rosas can easily wait for the 2020-21 trade deadline, preparing big trading, developing young players increasing the value of our assets. And our roster still lacks balance, still has so many holes...
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#786 » by KGdaBom » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:44 pm

Klomp wrote:
_AIJ_ wrote:Im really curious about minutes distribution if we draft Ball. J really want him here.

I think it would be pretty seamless. On the average, the backcourt (PG/SG) turns into primarily a three-man rotation of Russell, Beasley and Ball with McLaughlin being the fourth. This has always been my vision for the draft and upcoming roster construction. Unfortunately for some, McLaughlin would be kind of left out as would Nowell, but I'm willing to do it for that kind of talent upgrade.

Okogie and Culver split time at SF.

At PF, with the current roster construction it would probably be Hernangomez and Johnson. Vanderbilt may feel left out, but I could easily envision a midseason trade to open up time for him, like happened for Reid this past season.

Towns and Reid get most of the C minutes.

Obviously, rotations are game and matchup-dependent. Certain matchups or situations could cause the minutes to fluctuate or the rotation to grow or shrink. But that's how I would envision it going on most nights.

No mention of layman?
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#787 » by KGdaBom » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:48 pm

minimus wrote:
Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:* - both starting PF and backup PF positions are vacant. Reid did not play much at the beginning of last season because we had KAT and Dieng, as big men in 1-3-1 rotation, but after KAT injured his wrist and Dieng was traded, Reid played many minutes. I also would not say that Reid was prepared for such a workload, right before hiatus he looked tired.

Are you only saying this because of Johnson's option and Hernangomez's free agency? Because they're both ahead of Vanderbilt. As for Reid, I'm not even talking about him starting. Minnesota traded Dieng to insert Reid in his place before the Towns injury. The injury thrusted him into an even bigger role.


I dont see the point of playing JJ major minutes... This sounds like a Thibs 'win-now' move that does not make any difference long term. Juancho is a big question to me... Is he a backup PF we need?

Right now IMO Juancho is the starting PF we "need".
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#788 » by KGdaBom » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:51 pm

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:I dont see the point of playing JJ major minutes... This sounds like a Thibs 'win-now' move that does not make any difference long term. Juancho is a big question to me... Is he a backup PF we need?

I don't think people give Hernangomez enough credit. He averaged 13/7 after the trade on 42% 3-point shooting. Why do Wolves fans not value him higher?

Johnson is a vet mentor, who can still provide value on the court. His leadership is underrated.

Absolutely. Juancho should remain on the team to back up Okongwu or or KAT if we draft Wiseman :D .
If we go guard then Juancho should be our starting PF. If we go Deni I like Deni at SF and Juancho at PF. Bigger is better.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#789 » by Klomp » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:57 pm

KGdaBom wrote:No mention of layman?

Forgot him. He'd slot in getting some time either as the shooting wing (ahead of Nowell, behind Beasley) or at PF (ahead of Vanderbilt, behind Hernangomez and Johnson).
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#790 » by minimus » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:37 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Klomp wrote:Are you only saying this because of Johnson's option and Hernangomez's free agency? Because they're both ahead of Vanderbilt. As for Reid, I'm not even talking about him starting. Minnesota traded Dieng to insert Reid in his place before the Towns injury. The injury thrusted him into an even bigger role.


I dont see the point of playing JJ major minutes... This sounds like a Thibs 'win-now' move that does not make any difference long term. Juancho is a big question to me... Is he a backup PF we need?

Right now IMO Juancho is the starting PF we "need".


Right now he is not even with the team. Just like Spellman. Coincidence?
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#791 » by minimus » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:41 pm

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:No mention of layman?

Forgot him. He'd slot in getting some time either as the shooting wing (ahead of Nowell, behind Beasley) or at PF (ahead of Vanderbilt, behind Hernangomez and Johnson).


I guess we can count on Martin as smallball PF as well. Played well at PF against UTA and DEN last time.



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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#792 » by Klomp » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:43 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
I dont see the point of playing JJ major minutes... This sounds like a Thibs 'win-now' move that does not make any difference long term. Juancho is a big question to me... Is he a backup PF we need?

Right now IMO Juancho is the starting PF we "need".

Right now he is not even with the team. Just like Spellman. Coincidence?

Yes, coincidence.

Read on Twitter
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#793 » by minimus » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:49 pm

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Right now IMO Juancho is the starting PF we "need".

Right now he is not even with the team. Just like Spellman. Coincidence?

Yes, coincidence.

Read on Twitter


I know that he is filming a film. It is the most important off-season for him. It is his first big contract. It the first basketball activity in months. And he is not with team.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#794 » by KGdaBom » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:13 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
I dont see the point of playing JJ major minutes... This sounds like a Thibs 'win-now' move that does not make any difference long term. Juancho is a big question to me... Is he a backup PF we need?

Right now IMO Juancho is the starting PF we "need".


Right now he is not even with the team. Just like Spellman. Coincidence?

Yes. The coincidence is he signed on for a movie when we didn't have this mini bubble scheduled. He is an RFA, but still a Timberwolve's player until he signs elsewhere and we decline to match. He's the best PF on the team currently.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#795 » by KGdaBom » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:16 pm

minimus wrote:
Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:Right now he is not even with the team. Just like Spellman. Coincidence?

Yes, coincidence.

Read on Twitter


I know that he is filming a film. It is the most important off-season for him. It is his first big contract. It the first basketball activity in months. And he is not with team.

He's honoring a commitment to do a film. He had no commitment to basketball practice in late September.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#796 » by minimus » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:46 pm

Baseline81 wrote:In the current NBA, where 3-point shooting is paramount to winning, yes, defending the perimeter is what I'm "totally hung up on." If a team cannot do so, the opposition fires away or drives right around its defender to either attack the basket or kick out for an open look.

Do the Nuggets have a true rim protector? I ask that because it seems as if the Wolves are trying to build a team in the same manner as Denver (scoring PG and all-star C).


I enjoy these playoff games because I can see different offensive/defensive scheme, talented players and good coaches fight against each other.

I was really disappointed by how LAL-HOU series ended without House and Westbrook forcing his way instead of buying into team offense and defense scheme. However, every team play their strengths, for instance LAL have:

* - AD who is a multiple All-Star, All-Defensive Team, NBA blocks leader. 28mil
* - DH a is multiple All-Star, All-Defensive Team, NBA blocks and rebounds leader. 2.5mil
* - McGee has elite size 7'0", 7'6" wingspan, excellent mobility. 4 mil. NBA champion

I mean it is clear that LAL use their frontcourt to create advantage in offense and defense. But addition of Rondo is crucial both for defense and offense. Rondo is a multiple All-Star, All-Defensive Team, NBA steals and assist leader, NBA champion as well. And lets not forget Green who is a All-Defensive Second Team, NBA steals and assist leader, NBA champion.

It does not make much sense to imitate LAL because there is only one AD, one DH(on vetmin), one Rondo (on vetmin and one LeBron. We need to build our identity and right now we are using 1-3-1, "five out" scheme to maximize KAT and DLo. DEN with Jokic and Murray might be the closest thing to MIN with KAT and DLo. But for obvious reasons we cant just copy DEN offense either. As I wrote before, DEN play second slowest pace in the bubble. They have to play slow in order to maximize Jokic as an elite facilitator. And we MUST play fast in order to maximize KAT abilities.

Read on Twitter


"Rake and take". There are not better PFs in MIN for this basketball than JJ and Jarred Vanderbilt. And if an ideal PF for this basketball exists, then his name is Aaron Gordon. Getting a combo-guard who can rebound, pass, defend and shoot makes a lot of sense as well. Trading down and drafting Avdija makes sense as well.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#797 » by KGdaBom » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:54 am

minimus wrote:
Baseline81 wrote:In the current NBA, where 3-point shooting is paramount to winning, yes, defending the perimeter is what I'm "totally hung up on." If a team cannot do so, the opposition fires away or drives right around its defender to either attack the basket or kick out for an open look.

Do the Nuggets have a true rim protector? I ask that because it seems as if the Wolves are trying to build a team in the same manner as Denver (scoring PG and all-star C).


I enjoy these playoff games because I can see different offensive/defensive scheme, talented players and good coaches fight against each other.

I was really disappointed by how LAL-HOU series ended without House and Westbrook forcing his way instead of buying into team offense and defense scheme. However, every team play their strengths, for instance LAL have:

* - AD who is a multiple All-Star, All-Defensive Team, NBA blocks leader. 28mil
* - DH a is multiple All-Star, All-Defensive Team, NBA blocks and rebounds leader. 2.5mil
* - McGee has elite size 7'0", 7'6" wingspan, excellent mobility. 4 mil. NBA champion

I mean it is clear that LAL use their frontcourt to create advantage in offense and defense. But addition of Rondo is crucial both for defense and offense. Rondo is a multiple All-Star, All-Defensive Team, NBA steals and assist leader, NBA champion as well. And lets not forget Green who is a All-Defensive Second Team, NBA steals and assist leader, NBA champion.

It does not make much sense to imitate LAL because there is only one AD, one DH(on vetmin), one Rondo (on vetmin and one LeBron. We need to build our identity and right now we are using 1-3-1, "five out" scheme to maximize KAT and DLo. DEN with Jokic and Murray might be the closest thing to MIN with KAT and DLo. But for obvious reasons we cant just copy DEN offense either. As I wrote before, DEN play second slowest pace in the bubble. They have to play slow in order to maximize Jokic as an elite facilitator. And we MUST play fast in order to maximize KAT abilities.

Read on Twitter


"Rake and take". There are not better PFs in MIN for this basketball than JJ and Jarred Vanderbilt. And if an ideal PF for this basketball exists, then his name is Aaron Gordon. Getting a combo-guard who can rebound, pass, defend and shoot makes a lot of sense as well. Trading down and drafting Avdija makes sense as well.

Minimus how far down you think we can trade and draft Avdija? If you believe the hype the Warriors are locked in on him.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#798 » by minimus » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:16 am

KGdaBom wrote:Minimus how far down you think we can trade and draft Avdija? If you believe the hype the Warriors are locked in on him.


Personally I don't think that GSW will keep their pick. Their core has a lot of mileage of them they played like 7 consecutive season+playoffs... Thats multiple ±100 games seasons in a row. I think they have 2-3 years max before injuries will start to slow them down. They have TPE, and #2 pick to build starting lineup and championship the bench.

As for Avdija, I am afraid he does not have touch to be solid NBA shooter, he also so extremely right hand dominant, so it makes me question whether he can play point forward. I can see him falling out of top5
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#799 » by KGdaBom » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:12 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Minimus how far down you think we can trade and draft Avdija? If you believe the hype the Warriors are locked in on him.


Personally I don't think that GSW will keep their pick. Their core has a lot of mileage of them they played like 7 consecutive season+playoffs... Thats multiple ±100 games seasons in a row. I think they have 2-3 years max before injuries will start to slow them down. They have TPE, and #2 pick to build starting lineup and championship the bench.

As for Avdija, I am afraid he does not have touch to be solid NBA shooter, he also so extremely right hand dominant, so it makes me question whether he can play point forward. I can see him falling out of top5

I'll bet you a dollar that you won't have to pay that he does not fall out of top 5. I've been taking a bit deeper dive on him and his shooting percent and finding it's likely to be pretty good. A great place to check this out is go to the Charlotte board and look at the last couple pages of their Deni Avdija thread.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1987089&start=100
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#800 » by minimus » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:28 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Minimus how far down you think we can trade and draft Avdija? If you believe the hype the Warriors are locked in on him.


Personally I don't think that GSW will keep their pick. Their core has a lot of mileage of them they played like 7 consecutive season+playoffs... Thats multiple ±100 games seasons in a row. I think they have 2-3 years max before injuries will start to slow them down. They have TPE, and #2 pick to build starting lineup and championship the bench.

As for Avdija, I am afraid he does not have touch to be solid NBA shooter, he also so extremely right hand dominant, so it makes me question whether he can play point forward. I can see him falling out of top5

I'll bet you a dollar that you won't have to pay that he does not fall out of top 5. I've been taking a bit deeper dive on him and his shooting percent and finding it's likely to be pretty good. A great place to check this out is go to the Charlotte board and look at the last couple pages of their Deni Avdija thread.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1987089&start=100


If Avdija can make consistently 33% shots from NBA three point line he is definitely a top5. I have some concerns about his weak, left hand, but few young players can finish equally well with both hands. In any case, I hope Avdija will have a chance to do a full workout in MIN. I am not sure if official public scrimmages and workouts in front of NBA scouts/executives will be allowed.

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