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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#841 » by KGdaBom » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:02 pm

Fischella wrote:My expectations are as follows;

Team operates over the cap, Juancho and Malik are retained to reasonable deals using the leverage the team's got
Evans and Vanderbilt are let go, maybe Spellman too (depending on what happens with 33rd, stash? 2-way? real contract?)
McLaughlin gets signed to a real deal
The team uses the MLE to sign a vet either at PG/SG or SF/PF, then uses the vet minimum for another guy

Some names that make sense to me; Campazzo, Napier, Millsap, Craig, Rivers, Bradley, Derrick Jones Jr., Crowder, Moore, Kenrich Williams, Gary Clark Jr., Andre Roberson, Augustin, Rondaé Hollis-Jefferson, Chris Boucher

Only Campazzo, Millsap, Jones, Crowder, Boucher are worth of investing the MLE/part of it imo, best case scenario clearly is Facundo to me, with maybe a guy like Rondaé/Clark/Williams on the cheap or with a part of the MLE to make sure you get him

No idea who is the pick at 17th but if it ain't a stash (Bolmaro only plausible one) it means that the roster is down to one roster spot

Russell-McLaughlin
Beasley-Ball-Nowell
Culver-Okogie-Layman
Hernangómez-Johnson
Towns-Reid-Spellman
+17th

You could open up another roster spot by cutting Spellman, dunno if ownership would be so cheap to like trade Evans+Spellman (both deals are guaranteed)+33rd+cash to get rid of them, that'd be sad

Let's say you do get one of Campazzo, Millsap or Crowder for the MLE (or part of it leaving some available for the last guy, to pay over the vet's min and get an edge), and you draft Poku, would be my choice, or Achiuwa, maybe more realistic, 17th

Russell-Campazzo-McLaughlin
Beasley-Ball-Nowell
Culver-Okogie-Layman
Hernangómez-Johnson-Achiuwa
Towns-Reid-Spellman
+2-ways

Maybe you cut Spellman to sign another guy, or trade both like I mentioned along 33rd

Martin could stay as a 2-way I guess, there will be options there

If you think Vanderbilt is getting let go you have no insight into the Wolves at all.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#842 » by Klomp » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:51 pm

minimus wrote:Two "good" KATs games within "old" offense:



And one video about MIN five-out scheme:


A few things I noticed:

* - the difference between first two videos and the last one is how static, almost stagnant our offense looked even with KAT. Five-out scheme requires a lot of ball movement and off ball movement, but I am impressed how natural it looked for Reid, JMac, DLo, JJ, Okogie, Beasley and Juancho. Even without training camp, without preseason they were able to run it. Even more impressive that Reid, JMac had no NBA experience
* - it does not make any sense to put a "static" player at PF. Perfect example from these videos was Wiggins. Even though he played at wings and as ballhandler, his presence killed fluid ball movement. Sure PF next to KAT will be a low usage player, while Wiggins had high usage in MIN, but still. Juancho is exposed in MIN defense as starting PF because he cant defend in space, but he is mobile, and shoots at high rate/percentage from 3pt line. Dynamic PF is a must for five-out system. Either he should provide slashing ability or shooting, combined with defensive versatility and in ideal scenario above average passing ability
* - Rosas wants BPA over fit, but one thing I clearly see that our young role players are very good fit for five-out. JMac, Martin, Nowell, Reid, Vanderbilt, Layman, Okogie and Culver. They all fit this system. Sure they all have glaring weaknesses, but fit is there

Just going back to this, Jaden McDaniels is such a good fit in this system for what they want at the PF position. He probably will spend a lot of time in Iowa as a rookie, but I expect big things from him down the road.

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#843 » by Klomp » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:26 pm

1 2 3 4 5

Certain segments have taken issue with how I've analyzed the Wolves rotation in the recent past, saying "X isn't big enough to play that position" or "why do you put him there," but I've taken my cues from how the organization has structured its lineups. Last night's draft hasn't really changed much in my eyes. For explanation's sake, I may start using the numbered system as opposed to the old positional system to explain how I see things transpiring.

1. This is pretty straightforward. It's the point guard. He sets the table.
Players for this role...Russell, Rubio, McLaughlin

2. I classify the 2 in this system as the off-ball secondary attacker. Minnesota likes to use multiple playmakers, so this guy has to be a threat to shoot and/or drive.
Players for this role...Edwards, Beasley, Layman, Russell, Nowell, Okogie, Culver, Bolmaro

3. The 3 in Minnesota is primarily on the court for his defense. On offense, they do a lot of cutting and need to be available and ready for spot-up shots, but it isn't necessarily a shot-creator role.
Players for this role...Okogie, Culver, Martin, Bolmaro, Evans

4. At the 4, this player cannot be static or stagnant. In many senses, this is actually a position many would classify as a "big wing". These guys probably would've played SF in the 90s. What's important is that they are a threat with the ball in their hands from anywhere on the court, whether that's as an attacker/driver or shooter. On defense, this player needs to be regularly comfortable defending on the perimeter.
Players for this role...Hernangomez, Vanderbilt, Layman, McDaniels, Martin

5. Minnesota's 5 man needs to be a triple-threat from anywhere on the court. He needs to be a threat to shoot, pass and drive.
Players for this role...Towns, Reid, Vanderbilt, Spellman

Plugging the names into a more traditional-looking depth chart with one position per player:
Russell / Rubio / McLaughlin
Edwards / Beasley / Nowell
Okogie / Culver / Martin / Bolmaro / Evans
Hernangomez / Vanderbilt / Layman / McDaniels
Towns / Reid / Spellman

That's 18 players I know, but I'd expect Evans and Spellman to be gone soon, while Bolmaro sounds like he'll stay in Europe and won't take up a roster spot for a year or two. That's the easiest way to get down to 15 players.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#844 » by Dewey » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:41 pm

Klomp wrote:1 2 3 4 5

Certain segments have taken issue with how I've analyzed the Wolves rotation in the recent past, saying "X isn't big enough to play that position" or "why do you put him there," but I've taken my cues from how the organization has structured its lineups. Last night's draft hasn't really changed much in my eyes. For explanation's sake, I may start using the numbered system as opposed to the old positional system to explain how I see things transpiring.

1. This is pretty straightforward. It's the point guard. He sets the table.
Players for this role...Russell, Rubio, McLaughlin

2. I classify the 2 in this system as the off-ball secondary attacker. Minnesota likes to use multiple playmakers, so this guy has to be a threat to shoot and/or drive.
Players for this role...Edwards, Beasley, Layman, Russell, Nowell, Okogie, Culver, Bolmaro

3. The 3 in Minnesota is primarily on the court for his defense. On offense, they do a lot of cutting and need to be available and ready for spot-up shots, but it isn't necessarily a shot-creator role.
Players for this role...Okogie, Culver, Martin, Bolmaro, Evans

4. At the 4, this player cannot be static or stagnant. In many senses, this is actually a position many would classify as a "big wing". These guys probably would've played SF in the 90s. What's important is that they are a threat with the ball in their hands from anywhere on the court, whether that's as an attacker/driver or shooter. On defense, this player needs to be regularly comfortable defending on the perimeter.
Players for this role...Hernangomez, Vanderbilt, Layman, McDaniels, Martin

5. Minnesota's 5 man needs to be a triple-threat from anywhere on the court. He needs to be a threat to shoot, pass and drive.
Players for this role...Towns, Reid, Vanderbilt, Spellman

Plugging the names into a more traditional-looking depth chart with one position per player:
Russell / Rubio / McLaughlin
Edwards / Beasley / Nowell
Okogie / Culver / Martin / Bolmaro / Evans
Hernangomez / Vanderbilt / Layman / McDaniels
Towns / Reid / Spellman

That's 18 players I know, but I'd expect Evans and Spellman to be gone soon, while Bolmaro sounds like he'll stay in Europe and won't take up a roster spot for a year or two. That's the easiest way to get down to 15 players.

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#845 » by Neeva » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:43 pm

Its not like Jauncho was a disaster last year, just hope he is signed for a bargain and not overpayed to the point he has negative value. he should habe good chemisrry with Rubio since they play for Spain together right?
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#846 » by MPLSwolves » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:43 pm

Does the Rubio trade increase the chances of us bringing back Hernangómez? I haven't been following much of the updates regarding his RFA situation. Are we poised to bring him back on a good deal?
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#847 » by minimus » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:19 pm

I see here multiple fan posts suggesting MIN trading Okogie. I truly believe that Okogie is very important piece of our current team chemistry. Here are a few reasons.

1) his defense, hustle and motor are irreplaceable for this team. He is our best defender by far.

2) his grit and grind style is something that will translate to winning basketball, once we have more talent and better chemistry

3) he is committed to this team, to this city

4) he is close to Vando, they play together, they train together. Now we have two extremely talented young players who MUST be supported on and off the court: Jaden McDaniels and Anthony Edwards. If they both follow Okogie leadership, share same passion for the game and professional approach, then sky is the limit. Right now we have a very unique group of young hardworking players, and Okogie is the heart of this group. We added Rubio, who brings veteran experience and presence, but we need Okogie as young players voice and heart.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#848 » by Domejandro » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:49 am

I bet a rotation we see this season is....

Ricky Rubio / D'Angelo Russell / Malik Beasley / Anthony Edwards / Karl-Anthony Towns

Just a feeling I have. Obviously not a starting or main line-up, but I expect to see this tried, at some point.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#849 » by Dewey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:31 pm

Domejandro wrote:I bet a rotation we see this season is....

Ricky Rubio / D'Angelo Russell / Malik Beasley / Anthony Edwards / Karl-Anthony Towns

Just a feeling I have. Obviously not a starting or main line-up, but I expect to see this tried, at some point.

Beasley will not be here... with a #1 naive rookie coming and gun-toting Beasley won’t be here. Edwards will never play the 4 unless all other F’s and C’s are injured or fouled out.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#850 » by Dewey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:33 pm

minimus wrote:I see here multiple fan posts suggesting MIN trading Okogie. I truly believe that Okogie is very important piece of our current team chemistry. Here are a few reasons.

1) his defense, hustle and motor are irreplaceable for this team. He is our best defender by far.

2) his grit and grind style is something that will translate to winning basketball, once we have more talent and better chemistry

3) he is committed to this team, to this city

4) he is close to Vando, they play together, they train together. Now we have two extremely talented young players who MUST be supported on and off the court: Jaden McDaniels and Anthony Edwards. If they both follow Okogie leadership, share same passion for the game and professional approach, then sky is the limit. Right now we have a very unique group of young hardworking players, and Okogie is the heart of this group. We added Rubio, who brings veteran experience and presence, but we need Okogie as young players voice and heart.

Good list — I agree.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#851 » by Domejandro » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:35 pm

Dewey wrote:
Domejandro wrote:I bet a rotation we see this season is....

Ricky Rubio / D'Angelo Russell / Malik Beasley / Anthony Edwards / Karl-Anthony Towns

Just a feeling I have. Obviously not a starting or main line-up, but I expect to see this tried, at some point.

Beasley will not be here... with a #1 naive rookie coming and gun-toting Beasley won’t be here. Edwards will never play the 4 unless all other F’s and C’s are injured or fouled out.

It is very possible that Malik Beasley plays out his Qualifying Offer with Minnesota.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#852 » by Dewey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:53 pm

Domejandro wrote:
Dewey wrote:
Domejandro wrote:I bet a rotation we see this season is....

Ricky Rubio / D'Angelo Russell / Malik Beasley / Anthony Edwards / Karl-Anthony Towns

Just a feeling I have. Obviously not a starting or main line-up, but I expect to see this tried, at some point.

Beasley will not be here... with a #1 naive rookie coming and gun-toting Beasley won’t be here. Edwards will never play the 4 unless all other F’s and C’s are injured or fouled out.

It is very possible that Malik Beasley plays out his Qualifying Offer with Minnesota.

Very possible, but I just see them committed to quietly move him along.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#853 » by minimus » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:15 pm

Dewey wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
Dewey wrote:Beasley will not be here... with a #1 naive rookie coming and gun-toting Beasley won’t be here. Edwards will never play the 4 unless all other F’s and C’s are injured or fouled out.

It is very possible that Malik Beasley plays out his Qualifying Offer with Minnesota.

Very possible, but I just see them committed to quietly move him along.


Yes, we still can maximize his market value, which is now very low. Let say we re-sign him for 50mil/4yrs. He performs well with Rubio and DLo running the point. We trade him and other assets for starting PF.

At least we should try to do it.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#854 » by Krapinsky » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:23 pm

Domejandro wrote:I bet a rotation we see this season is....

Ricky Rubio / D'Angelo Russell / Malik Beasley / Anthony Edwards / Karl-Anthony Towns

Just a feeling I have. Obviously not a starting or main line-up, but I expect to see this tried, at some point.


Is it too late to bring back Rick Adelman? Just missing JJ as a third point guard here.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#855 » by KGdaBom » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:12 pm

Klomp wrote:1 2 3 4 5

Certain segments have taken issue with how I've analyzed the Wolves rotation in the recent past, saying "X isn't big enough to play that position" or "why do you put him there," but I've taken my cues from how the organization has structured its lineups. Last night's draft hasn't really changed much in my eyes. For explanation's sake, I may start using the numbered system as opposed to the old positional system to explain how I see things transpiring.

1. This is pretty straightforward. It's the point guard. He sets the table.
Players for this role...Russell, Rubio, McLaughlin

2. I classify the 2 in this system as the off-ball secondary attacker. Minnesota likes to use multiple playmakers, so this guy has to be a threat to shoot and/or drive.
Players for this role...Edwards, Beasley, Layman, Russell, Nowell, Okogie, Culver, Bolmaro

3. The 3 in Minnesota is primarily on the court for his defense. On offense, they do a lot of cutting and need to be available and ready for spot-up shots, but it isn't necessarily a shot-creator role.
Players for this role...Okogie, Culver, Martin, Bolmaro, Evans

4. At the 4, this player cannot be static or stagnant. In many senses, this is actually a position many would classify as a "big wing". These guys probably would've played SF in the 90s. What's important is that they are a threat with the ball in their hands from anywhere on the court, whether that's as an attacker/driver or shooter. On defense, this player needs to be regularly comfortable defending on the perimeter.
Players for this role...Hernangomez, Vanderbilt, Layman, McDaniels, Martin

5. Minnesota's 5 man needs to be a triple-threat from anywhere on the court. He needs to be a threat to shoot, pass and drive.
Players for this role...Towns, Reid, Vanderbilt, Spellman

Plugging the names into a more traditional-looking depth chart with one position per player:
Russell / Rubio / McLaughlin
Edwards / Beasley / Nowell
Okogie / Culver / Martin / Bolmaro / Evans
Hernangomez / Vanderbilt / Layman / McDaniels
Towns / Reid / Spellman

That's 18 players I know, but I'd expect Evans and Spellman to be gone soon, while Bolmaro sounds like he'll stay in Europe and won't take up a roster spot for a year or two. That's the easiest way to get down to 15 players.

Why did you not list Edwards as a candidate for the #3?
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#856 » by Heimdal » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:33 pm

Rubio (28) / Russell (14) McLaughlin (6)
Russell (14) / Beasley (28) / Edwards (6)
Edwards (20) / Okogie (14) / Culver (14)
*MLE* (30)/ Hernangomez (18)
Towns (34) / Reid (14)

*MLE* Derrick Favors/ Jamychal Green / Willie Cauley-Stein

DNP
Vanderbilt / Layman / McDaniels / Spellman
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#857 » by KGdaBom » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:46 pm

MPLSwolves wrote:Does the Rubio trade increase the chances of us bringing back Hernangómez? I haven't been following much of the updates regarding his RFA situation. Are we poised to bring him back on a good deal?

I think it helps a bit. Mostly it's going to come down to the offer he gets and if the Wolves are inclined to match.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#858 » by KGdaBom » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:49 pm

minimus wrote:
Dewey wrote:
Domejandro wrote:It is very possible that Malik Beasley plays out his Qualifying Offer with Minnesota.

Very possible, but I just see them committed to quietly move him along.


Yes, we still can maximize his market value, which is now very low. Let say we re-sign him for 50mil/4yrs. He performs well with Rubio and DLo running the point. We trade him and other assets for starting PF.

At least we should try to do it.

he's not getting 12 million plus per year. No way. 5 is what I expect with lots of clauses.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#859 » by Klomp » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:17 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Spoiler:
1 2 3 4 5

Certain segments have taken issue with how I've analyzed the Wolves rotation in the recent past, saying "X isn't big enough to play that position" or "why do you put him there," but I've taken my cues from how the organization has structured its lineups. Last night's draft hasn't really changed much in my eyes. For explanation's sake, I may start using the numbered system as opposed to the old positional system to explain how I see things transpiring.

1. This is pretty straightforward. It's the point guard. He sets the table.
Players for this role...Russell, Rubio, McLaughlin

2. I classify the 2 in this system as the off-ball secondary attacker. Minnesota likes to use multiple playmakers, so this guy has to be a threat to shoot and/or drive.
Players for this role...Edwards, Beasley, Layman, Russell, Nowell, Okogie, Culver, Bolmaro
3. The 3 in Minnesota is primarily on the court for his defense. On offense, they do a lot of cutting and need to be available and ready for spot-up shots, but it isn't necessarily a shot-creator role.
Players for this role...Okogie, Culver, Martin, Bolmaro, Evans
Spoiler:
4. At the 4, this player cannot be static or stagnant. In many senses, this is actually a position many would classify as a "big wing". These guys probably would've played SF in the 90s. What's important is that they are a threat with the ball in their hands from anywhere on the court, whether that's as an attacker/driver or shooter. On defense, this player needs to be regularly comfortable defending on the perimeter.
Players for this role...Hernangomez, Vanderbilt, Layman, McDaniels, Martin

5. Minnesota's 5 man needs to be a triple-threat from anywhere on the court. He needs to be a threat to shoot, pass and drive.
Players for this role...Towns, Reid, Vanderbilt, Spellman

Plugging the names into a more traditional-looking depth chart with one position per player:
Russell / Rubio / McLaughlin
Edwards / Beasley / Nowell
Okogie / Culver / Martin / Bolmaro / Evans
Hernangomez / Vanderbilt / Layman / McDaniels
Towns / Reid / Spellman

That's 18 players I know, but I'd expect Evans and Spellman to be gone soon, while Bolmaro sounds like he'll stay in Europe and won't take up a roster spot for a year or two. That's the easiest way to get down to 15 players.

Why did you not list Edwards as a candidate for the #3?

I'll bold it for you to see if you can figure out why
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#860 » by KGdaBom » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:41 pm

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Spoiler:
1 2 3 4 5

Certain segments have taken issue with how I've analyzed the Wolves rotation in the recent past, saying "X isn't big enough to play that position" or "why do you put him there," but I've taken my cues from how the organization has structured its lineups. Last night's draft hasn't really changed much in my eyes. For explanation's sake, I may start using the numbered system as opposed to the old positional system to explain how I see things transpiring.

1. This is pretty straightforward. It's the point guard. He sets the table.
Players for this role...Russell, Rubio, McLaughlin

2. I classify the 2 in this system as the off-ball secondary attacker. Minnesota likes to use multiple playmakers, so this guy has to be a threat to shoot and/or drive.
Players for this role...Edwards, Beasley, Layman, Russell, Nowell, Okogie, Culver, Bolmaro
3. The 3 in Minnesota is primarily on the court for his defense. On offense, they do a lot of cutting and need to be available and ready for spot-up shots, but it isn't necessarily a shot-creator role.
Players for this role...Okogie, Culver, Martin, Bolmaro, Evans
Spoiler:
4. At the 4, this player cannot be static or stagnant. In many senses, this is actually a position many would classify as a "big wing". These guys probably would've played SF in the 90s. What's important is that they are a threat with the ball in their hands from anywhere on the court, whether that's as an attacker/driver or shooter. On defense, this player needs to be regularly comfortable defending on the perimeter.
Players for this role...Hernangomez, Vanderbilt, Layman, McDaniels, Martin

5. Minnesota's 5 man needs to be a triple-threat from anywhere on the court. He needs to be a threat to shoot, pass and drive.
Players for this role...Towns, Reid, Vanderbilt, Spellman

Plugging the names into a more traditional-looking depth chart with one position per player:
Russell / Rubio / McLaughlin
Edwards / Beasley / Nowell
Okogie / Culver / Martin / Bolmaro / Evans
Hernangomez / Vanderbilt / Layman / McDaniels
Towns / Reid / Spellman

That's 18 players I know, but I'd expect Evans and Spellman to be gone soon, while Bolmaro sounds like he'll stay in Europe and won't take up a roster spot for a year or two. That's the easiest way to get down to 15 players.

Why did you not list Edwards as a candidate for the #3?

I'll bold it for you to see if you can figure out why

He's supposed to have all the tools to be an all NBA defender.

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