How active will the Wolves be before the Feb. deadline?

[Mattya]

Reading comprehension is a struggle for you - I get it now. Go back and quote me where I ever said usage % is a measure of assisting. I explicitly stated that usage % should be used with other stats in order to determine any efficiencies.

Once again from basketball reference: "
Usg% - Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP/ 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor."

Interesting that the definition says nothing about scoring efficiency. Perhaps you had it wrong all along.

Typically the one that starts taking personal shots is the one that's wrong.

This isn't my board, but let's play nice, not be rude, and just talk about baskethoops. There's nothing wrong with ignoring someone if arguing with them becomes too frustrating.

It's not a personal shot. He's either not reading what I write or he can't comprehend it. Thanks for stepping in though - I'll let it go.

Who was the one who didn't know the definition for usage? But even then you claimed I was the one who was confused, and apparently can't comprehend, while you outright lie about what you claimed to have said.

[Mattya]

There is literally a usage stat by the best stats people in the league that tracks assists as a part of usage because Usage on BBReft wasn't good enough and I'm the one that can't comprehend. Amazing.

[Mattya]

In other words, it tells you the %s of total FGAs, FTAs, and TOVs a player accounts for relative to the team. I have been using usg% as a proxy for how often a player has the ball in their hands. Is it perfect? No - but guess what, you need the ball in your hands in order to rack up FGAs, FTAs, and TOVs.

It seems like you're arguing with me on the minutiae and not understanding the point. If a player has a higher usage percentage, then that means they have more opportunities to get assists. In this case, DLo has a higher usage % but a lower assist rate.

I could have sworn you were just saying that you never said usage had nothing to do with assists. But here you are saying that Usage shows that you have more opportunities to get assists. Seems like this is you interpreting a definition and not a formula.

So please tell me again how a stat the tracks the percentage of a teams FGA, FTA, and TOVs is showing opportunities for and assist. Or better yet tell me how in Rubio's last season with the Wolves he average 82.5 touches a game(which is less than 1 touch less than what DLO is averaging) had a usage of 17.4(second lowest of his careers) averaged 9.1 assists(highest of career). That would be more touches than Teague gets, a lower usage than Teague has, and more assists than Teague averages. So, by your own logic, Rubio's usage shouldn't have gone down because he clearly found more opportunities to assist. I mean he even found the opportunity to shoot and extra FGA than the year before while also average the third highest FTA per game of his career. He did average .1 less TOVs than his career average. So why did his usage go down. With all those extra opportunities to assist?

[Jedzz]

Usage stat sounds pretty useless when you read the Rubio line from his last season here. At least, maybe the name of it should change.

[Klomp]

I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to use Teague's contract like this at the deadline. If we could turn it into a shooter with an extra year or two on his deal plus get prospects or picks, that would be huge. Obviously Teague isn't McGrady, but I could still see something on a smaller scale

[MN7725]

I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to use Teague's contract like this at the deadline. If we could turn it into a shooter with an extra year or two on his deal plus get prospects or picks, that would be huge. Obviously Teague isn't McGrady, but I could still see something on a smaller scale

I've been thinking that too, but there just really isn't that many bad multi-year contracts because of how tight things have been since 2016 FA

Cha- Batum, Zeller
Chi- Felicio
Dal- THJ
Mia- Waiters, Johnson
OKC- Schroeder

those are names I came up with with just a cursory look

but don't really see teams adding much, maybe a disappointing rookie contract player

Zeller/Monk
Felicio/Dunn
Schroeder/Ferguson

as examples

[shangrila]

I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to use Teague's contract like this at the deadline. If we could turn it into a shooter with an extra year or two on his deal plus get prospects or picks, that would be huge. Obviously Teague isn't McGrady, but I could still see something on a smaller scale

I've been thinking that too, but there just really isn't that many bad multi-year contracts because of how tight things have been since 2016 FA

Cha- Batum, Zeller
Chi- Felicio
Dal- THJ
Mia- Waiters, Johnson
OKC- Schroeder

those are names I came up with with just a cursory look

but don't really see teams adding much, maybe a disappointing rookie contract player

Zeller/Monk
Felicio/Dunn
Schroeder/Ferguson

as examples

The bigger issue is this just isn't an attractive FA market. Most of the restricted guys got taken off the board and while people like AD or Draymond are technically available the odds of them moving are small, if they exist at all. I know I wouldn't be giving up picks and/or prospects to jump into this class.

[MN7725]

I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to use Teague's contract like this at the deadline. If we could turn it into a shooter with an extra year or two on his deal plus get prospects or picks, that would be huge. Obviously Teague isn't McGrady, but I could still see something on a smaller scale

I've been thinking that too, but there just really isn't that many bad multi-year contracts because of how tight things have been since 2016 FA

Cha- Batum, Zeller
Chi- Felicio
Dal- THJ
Mia- Waiters, Johnson
OKC- Schroeder

those are names I came up with with just a cursory look

but don't really see teams adding much, maybe a disappointing rookie contract player

Zeller/Monk
Felicio/Dunn
Schroeder/Ferguson

as examples

The bigger issue is this just isn't an attractive FA market. Most of the restricted guys got taken off the board and while people like AD or Draymond are technically available the odds of them moving are small, if they exist at all. I know I wouldn't be giving up picks and/or prospects to jump into this class.

agreed, that's why I said disappointing young players at best, Dunn doesn't seem to have future in Chi

Dallas would be most likely for cap space since they have Luka cheap and good team (so far), but their FA hunting history is awful

[Jedzz]

I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to use Teague's contract like this at the deadline. If we could turn it into a shooter with an extra year or two on his deal plus get prospects or picks, that would be huge. Obviously Teague isn't McGrady, but I could still see something on a smaller scale

I've been thinking that too, but there just really isn't that many bad multi-year contracts because of how tight things have been since 2016 FA

Cha- Batum, Zeller
Chi- Felicio
Dal- THJ
Mia- Waiters, Johnson
OKC- Schroeder

those are names I came up with with just a cursory look

but don't really see teams adding much, maybe a disappointing rookie contract player

Zeller/Monk
Felicio/Dunn
Schroeder/Ferguson

as examples

And how many of those teams have FRPs to give away still like the Houston NY trade example showed? 19M of expiring space this offseason should be worth plenty all by itself. Would be excited if they could start becoming a team wise enough to inhale extra FRPs for once instead of losing them.

But at the same time, the Value of Teague's expiring space is hugely valuable to us to finally not be strapped so badly. Taking back a bad contract I think only works for us if the pick assets are good and if that player we are inhaling can actually shoot. This team doesn't need anymore non shooters. Not one. Extra bodies just hurts the development plans of what they are trying to develop right now. Worse yet would be to make some kind of mega multiplayer movement just to have contracts match and end up giving away one of our young assets at the same time that later blooms and makes Wolves look like idiots for moving them.

[MN7725]

I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to use Teague's contract like this at the deadline. If we could turn it into a shooter with an extra year or two on his deal plus get prospects or picks, that would be huge. Obviously Teague isn't McGrady, but I could still see something on a smaller scale

I've been thinking that too, but there just really isn't that many bad multi-year contracts because of how tight things have been since 2016 FA

Cha- Batum, Zeller
Chi- Felicio
Dal- THJ
Mia- Waiters, Johnson
OKC- Schroeder

those are names I came up with with just a cursory look

but don't really see teams adding much, maybe a disappointing rookie contract player

Zeller/Monk
Felicio/Dunn
Schroeder/Ferguson

as examples

19M of expiring space this offseason should be worth plenty all by itself

Doubtful

Plenty of teams will have space as a consequence of so many 1yr deals being signed, relatively weak FA class

Don't see any scenario where Wolves get a 1st for Teague's expiring

Again, wasn't easy to find that many bad multi-yr deals, and the teams on my list either owe picks (Dal, Mia) or are in building mode or have space (Cha, Chi)

OKC does have extra picks, but see their motivation to use one for Teague's expiring

[Jedzz]

and the teams on my list either owe picks (Dal, Mia)

That's what I was assuming, none to give.

If the Wolves can't get useful picks, why take on the cap load of others. Only way I do it is if a player coming back is a known shooter better than what we have. No other point makes sense.

[old school 34]

I've been thinking that too, but there just really isn't that many bad multi-year contracts because of how tight things have been since 2016 FA

Cha- Batum, Zeller
Chi- Felicio
Dal- THJ
Mia- Waiters, Johnson
OKC- Schroeder

those are names I came up with with just a cursory look

but don't really see teams adding much, maybe a disappointing rookie contract player

Zeller/Monk
Felicio/Dunn
Schroeder/Ferguson

as examples

19M of expiring space this offseason should be worth plenty all by itself

Doubtful

Plenty of teams will have space as a consequence of so many 1yr deals being signed, relatively weak FA class

Don't see any scenario where Wolves get a 1st for Teague's expiring

Again, wasn't easy to find that many bad multi-yr deals, and the teams on my list either owe picks (Dal, Mia) or are in building mode or have space (Cha, Chi)

OKC does have extra picks, but see their motivation to use one for Teague's expiring

Not exactly what you described above but maybe closest thing I could get to that's mildly interesting & still realisitic:

MN out: Teague/Napier/Vonleh...MN in: Murray/Lyles/Mills

SA out: DeRozen/Murray/Lyles/Mills...SA in: Gordon/Teague/Augustin/Vonleh

Orl out: Gordon/Augustin...Orl in: DeRozen/Napier

Why for each:

Orl--better positonal roster balance & gives them the playmaking wing that better compliments their other youth players...while not completely blowing it up again.

SA--again better positional roster balance while giving them a young enough forward piece that works w/ your other younger wing types to start your re-build w/ expirings that will help w/ the tank for this year &/or maybe still be flipped before deadline when you continue to move the likes of LA/Gay/Carrrol? Also, you do a solid by moving a guy like Mills onto a team that he'll have a significant role that's still attempting to make playoffs...

MN--roll the dice on a couple of younger players that hopefully better fit the system your attempting to play & take a vet expiring that again fits about as well as you could ask for & provide exactly what's needed on the 2nd unit.

PG--Murray/Mills/Culver
SG--Wiggins/Okogie/Nowell
SF--Roco/Layman/Graham
PF--Lyles/KBD/Bell
C--KAT/Dieng/Naz

Not 100% certain how the rotation would flesh out...but like the depth & this I feel should be a playoff team that would at least have some growth & sustainability potential if players develop appropriately ( I start Murray...show commitment to him--as you need to resign him as a restricted FA that as long as you show your belief in him---still should be able to leverage the price some because of his still unproven shot & coming off the ACL---then if I'm starting him I want my 5th starter to be more of a shooter)?

That seem like a reasonable trade or does one think picks may be needed to even something out?

[TheProdigy]

Usage stat sounds pretty useless when you read the Rubio line from his last season here. At least, maybe the name of it should change.

It is completely useless on it's own, but when you compare it to apg, it can at least give you an idea of how willing a player is to pass the ball relative to his peers. Rubio has low usage, high apg which means he has a high degree of willingness to pass the ball. A "ball hog" would have the opposite with high usage and low apg.

[shrink]

Not exactly what you described above but maybe closest thing I could get to that's mildly interesting & still realisitic:

MN out: Teague/Napier/Vonleh...MN in: Murray/Lyles/Mills

SA out: DeRozen/Murray/Lyles/Mills...SA in: Gordon/Teague/Augustin/Vonleh

Orl out: Gordon/Augustin...Orl in: DeRozen/Napier

Why for each:

Orl--better positonal roster balance & gives them the playmaking wing that better compliments their other youth players...while not completely blowing it up again.

SA--again better positional roster balance while giving them a young enough forward piece that works w/ your other younger wing types to start your re-build w/ expirings that will help w/ the tank for this year &/or maybe still be flipped before deadline when you continue to move the likes of LA/Gay/Carrrol? Also, you do a solid by moving a guy like Mills onto a team that he'll have a significant role that's still attempting to make playoffs...

MN--roll the dice on a couple of younger players that hopefully better fit the system your attempting to play & take a vet expiring that again fits about as well as you could ask for & provide exactly what's needed on the 2nd unit.

PG--Murray/Mills/Culver
SG--Wiggins/Okogie/Nowell
SF--Roco/Layman/Graham
PF--Lyles/KBD/Bell
C--KAT/Dieng/Naz

Not 100% certain how the rotation would flesh out...but like the depth & this I feel should be a playoff team that would at least have some growth & sustainability potential if players develop appropriately ( I start Murray...show commitment to him--as you need to resign him as a restricted FA that as long as you show your belief in him---still should be able to leverage the price some because of his still unproven shot & coming off the ACL---then if I'm starting him I want my 5th starter to be more of a shooter)?

That seem like a reasonable trade or does one think picks may be needed to even something out?

I like the idea of trading with the Spurs. This may be Pops last season, and he has so many under-performing players on his roster right now. He Has a weird team, with six guys with 10 or more years of experience, and eleven with 4 or less. In his final season, he may not be playing for the future, so vets like Teague and even Dieng may have more appeal

DeJounte Murray might be had cheaply, and if he could develop a shot, he is a tremendous athlete and defender that fits out timeline.

Lonnie Walker has never done much of anything until this week.

Trey Lyles has really stunk, but he has an ability to shoot the three, and occasionally did well in Denver last season.

[old school 34]

Not exactly what you described above but maybe closest thing I could get to that's mildly interesting & still realisitic:

MN out: Teague/Napier/Vonleh...MN in: Murray/Lyles/Mills

SA out: DeRozen/Murray/Lyles/Mills...SA in: Gordon/Teague/Augustin/Vonleh

Orl out: Gordon/Augustin...Orl in: DeRozen/Napier

Why for each:

Orl--better positonal roster balance & gives them the playmaking wing that better compliments their other youth players...while not completely blowing it up again.

SA--again better positional roster balance while giving them a young enough forward piece that works w/ your other younger wing types to start your re-build w/ expirings that will help w/ the tank for this year &/or maybe still be flipped before deadline when you continue to move the likes of LA/Gay/Carrrol? Also, you do a solid by moving a guy like Mills onto a team that he'll have a significant role that's still attempting to make playoffs...

MN--roll the dice on a couple of younger players that hopefully better fit the system your attempting to play & take a vet expiring that again fits about as well as you could ask for & provide exactly what's needed on the 2nd unit.

PG--Murray/Mills/Culver
SG--Wiggins/Okogie/Nowell
SF--Roco/Layman/Graham
PF--Lyles/KBD/Bell
C--KAT/Dieng/Naz

Not 100% certain how the rotation would flesh out...but like the depth & this I feel should be a playoff team that would at least have some growth & sustainability potential if players develop appropriately ( I start Murray...show commitment to him--as you need to resign him as a restricted FA that as long as you show your belief in him---still should be able to leverage the price some because of his still unproven shot & coming off the ACL---then if I'm starting him I want my 5th starter to be more of a shooter)?

That seem like a reasonable trade or does one think picks may be needed to even something out?

I like the idea of trading with the Spurs. This may be Pops last season, and he has so many under-performing players on his roster right now. He Has a weird team, with six guys with 10 or more years of experience, and eleven with 4 or less. In his final season, he may not be playing for the future, so vets like Teague and even Dieng may have more appeal

DeJounte Murray might be had cheaply, and if he could develop a shot, he is a tremendous athlete and defender that fits out timeline.

Lonnie Walker has never done much of anything until this week.

Trey Lyles has really stunk, but he has an ability to shoot the three, and occasionally did well in Denver last season.

I agree I feel SA has a lot of interesting parts and there's probably something there....after thinking about my proposal more...think we'd need to add a piece in current deal to avoid not just getting cut out....which I'd consider doing? Could also change the combination of our return (keeping Murray in the mix but adding different variations of the vets like Gay/Carroll...who both have added yrs on their deal if their going into full tear down mode)?

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[Calinks]

[shrink]

If Kevin Love was traded back to the Wolves, he wouldn’t be smiling.

[Grubie024]

If Kevin Love was traded back to the Wolves, he wouldn’t be smiling.

He would probably break his hand again punching the wall. Oops... I mean... knuckle pushups? Yeah that’s it. Knuckle pushups.