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The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020

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The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#1 » by wolfen » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:02 pm

Really... Random... Thoughts...

KAT and Wigs, that's it really.

KAT / X / X / Wigs / X

Needs...
Play-making, initiating offense, ball movement, shooting.

Roster doesn't match style, roster doesn't match any style.

Coach needs to stress less iso and ball stopping.

Core
KAT, Wigs (like it or not)

Incomplete report card
Culver

Culver needs to play all the time and given the reigns.

Good to very good trade assets but limitations are hindering?
Okogie, Covington

Cov - May not fit time frame, very limited creator, not a 4

"Fit but long term guys?"
Layman, Reid, Nowell

Gotta go
Teague, Napier, Gorgs, Graham

Meh - Bell, Vonleh, KBD

Wiggins - Even though his handles have improved, he's distributing better, driving to the hoop, and playing some pseudo-PG, we need a legit starting PG.

A possible future...

V / Okogie / Wigs / W / KAT

X / Culver / Layman / Y / Z

Imagine if this year we had Chris Paul (V) and a healthy Isaiah Thomas (X) (“I’m going to be an all-star again, for sure,” Thomas said. “I know that for a fact."). Or next year we land a Gallinari (W)? We could quickly be in business with the right moves.

V = Haliburton (draft), Dinwiddie (trade), Manion (trade up), RJ Hampton
W = Gallinari, Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Obi Toppin, Jaden McDaniels
X = Isaiah Thomas, Clarkson, Yogi Farrel, Markus Howard, Cassius Winston,
Y = Jeremiah Robinson, Killian Tillie,
Z = Naz Reid? Baynes(FA) Olynyk (FA)

Other "Rosasian" players I'm looking at in the draft this summer...
Jordan Nwora, Landers Nolley, Tyrese Maxey, Josh Green, Aaron Nesmith

Next Year...
Pipe dream but won't happen - 50 wins
Dinwidddie / Okogie / Wigs / Gallo / KAT
Manion / Culver / Layman / Cabolclo? / Olynyk

Reality and could happen - 45 wins
Haliburton / Okogie / Wigs / Portis / KAT
Clarkson or Farrel / Culver / Layman / Bertans / Kaminski

really... random... thoughts... rip away...
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#2 » by Klomp » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:12 pm

Covington fits everything but the timeline, and that really doesn't matter as much at that position.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#3 » by wolfen » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:15 pm

Klomp wrote:Covington fits everything but the timeline, and that really doesn't matter as much at that position.


For my money, if we kept Cov, we'd have to ship out Okogie. Sure, Wigs has gotten better as a play-maker and distributor, but IMO every single wing, except maybe one specialist, needs to be a playmaker, fluent in setting up others and using the dribble to do so, and/or being an excellent ball mover / passer. And because Cov is older and is probably a guy that can get back a first-round pick in a trade, I move Cov.

We can't trot out Wigs, Okogie, Cov, and Culver at the wing position as our rotation. Recent teams we've played, their play-making wings/combos, and specialists in parentheses:

PHX: Booker / Oubre (Bridges, C. Johnson)
OKC: SGA / Schroder - both "combos" (Roberson, Ferguson, Diallo)
LAL: Bron / KCP / Kuz (Green, Bradley)
LAC: Paul / Leonard / Williams / Shammet
DAL: Doncic / Hardaway Jr / Curry
SAS: DeRozan, Gay, younger guys Forbes, Walker

Teams that are in a similar boat with us, limited wing play-makers
Memphis: Dillon Brooks only
Cavs: Jordan Clarkson only (solid backup)
Bulls: Lavine
Hawks: Huerter, Crabbe (backups on good teams), 2 rooks, but you can't include them
Hornets: Ugh...
Magic: Fournier, Ross

I say we move either Cov or Okogie, both great defenders, for a legit scoring and passing wing who is not a liability on D. Honestly, our wing rotation, when it comes to dribbling the basketball, is among the worst in the league, ugh...
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#4 » by GI_Slow » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:23 pm

My vision would be something like D-Lo Wiggs Culver RoCo (?) KAT, in a setup where this is your core and obviously you stagger minutes with the bench as certainly these 5 (along with the backup PG, not counting RoCo) are all your offense initiators, then also, even if D-Lo features as a "PG", you could still run a lot of possessions through Wiggs and have Russell as a catch and shoot guy, not to mention, at least 4 of the 5 are above average within their "positions" as passers, defense is a question mark, but should be able to switch a lot.

Teague can go, Gorgui is an ok player but his contract is something a contending team can't afford (not us at least since we already have KAT), Graham has shown nothing other than effort, Layman is pretty good considering his contract, guys like Nowell and Naz will for sure help next year.

RoCo is a bit questionable to me not necesarily due to his age, but in fact he's one of the most valuable pieces we have and while guys like Bertans or Gallinari aren't nearly as good defensively they could fit here, also if I had to choose between trading Culver or Okogie, I'd choose Josh as trade bait.

So I'd run with this for a 12 man squad

Russell / Wiggins / Culver / RoCo / KAT
Backup PG / Nowell / 3+D Swingman / 3+D Forward / Layman / Naz / Backup C
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#5 » by Klomp » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:38 am

wolfen wrote:For my money, if we kept Cov, we'd have to ship out Okogie. Sure, Wigs has gotten better as a play-maker and distributor, but IMO every single wing, except maybe one specialist, needs to be a playmaker, fluent in setting up others and using the dribble to do so, and/or being an excellent ball mover / passer. And because Cov is older and is probably a guy that can get back a first-round pick in a trade, I move Cov.

We can't trot out Wigs, Okogie, Cov, and Culver at the wing position as our rotation. Recent teams we've played, their play-making wings/combos, and specialists in parentheses:

PHX: Booker / Oubre (Bridges, C. Johnson)
OKC: SGA / Schroder - both "combos" (Roberson, Ferguson, Diallo)
LAL: Bron / KCP / Kuz (Green, Bradley)
LAC: Paul / Leonard / Williams / Shammet
DAL: Doncic / Hardaway Jr / Curry
SAS: DeRozan, Gay, younger guys Forbes, Walker

Teams that are in a similar boat with us, limited wing play-makers
Memphis: Dillon Brooks only
Cavs: Jordan Clarkson only (solid backup)
Bulls: Lavine
Hawks: Huerter, Crabbe (backups on good teams), 2 rooks, but you can't include them
Hornets: Ugh...
Magic: Fournier, Ross

I say we move either Cov or Okogie, both great defenders, for a legit scoring and passing wing who is not a liability on D. Honestly, our wing rotation, when it comes to dribbling the basketball, is among the worst in the league, ugh...

Just because the talk is about lineups with 3 wings doesn't mean the desired skill set is the same at all three starting wing positions. For example, PJ Tucker is very different from Eric Gordon, but they still would both be classified as wings in Houston. Covington is the perfect example of a Tucker-type wing. The only reason I think you trade him is if you feel that skill set is easily replaceable compared to the value Covington could bring in a trade.

Personally, I think the decision for us will come down to Okogie and Culver. I'm not sure both will be on the opening day roster next season.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#6 » by minimus » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:04 am

GI_Slow wrote:My vision would be something like D-Lo Wiggs Culver RoCo (?) KAT, in a setup where this is your core and obviously you stagger minutes with the bench as certainly these 5 (along with the backup PG, not counting RoCo) are all your offense initiators, then also, even if D-Lo features as a "PG", you could still run a lot of possessions through Wiggs and have Russell as a catch and shoot guy, not to mention, at least 4 of the 5 are above average within their "positions" as passers, defense is a question mark, but should be able to switch a lot.

Teague can go, Gorgui is an ok player but his contract is something a contending team can't afford (not us at least since we already have KAT), Graham has shown nothing other than effort, Layman is pretty good considering his contract, guys like Nowell and Naz will for sure help next year.

RoCo is a bit questionable to me not necesarily due to his age, but in fact he's one of the most valuable pieces we have and while guys like Bertans or Gallinari aren't nearly as good defensively they could fit here, also if I had to choose between trading Culver or Okogie, I'd choose Josh as trade bait.

So I'd run with this for a 12 man squad

Russell / Wiggins / Culver / RoCo / KAT
Backup PG / Nowell / 3+D Swingman / 3+D Forward / Layman / Naz / Backup C


I have similar vision. Get DLo-Wiggins-KAT core, rotate lineups to have two of them on the floor most of the games. Let them gain some chemistry. I dont have a medical report of RoCo, but he is averaging 27,8mpg. Is it just load management or they know something? The key here is negotiation, if Rosas can low trade requirements to acceptable I will consider this a huge win for us. Let say Dieng, RoCo, lottery protected FRP for DLo. Let Teague contract expire. Sign Jerami Grant, re-sign Napier, Graham, Bell, Martin.

Russell/Wiggins/Culver/Grant/KAT
Napier/Nowell/Martin/Okogie/Graham/Layman/Naz/Bell

Another type of deal I'd be happy with: Teague, Culver, top5 protected FRP, SRP for DLo.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#7 » by GI_Slow » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:08 pm

minimus wrote:
GI_Slow wrote:My vision would be something like D-Lo Wiggs Culver RoCo (?) KAT, in a setup where this is your core and obviously you stagger minutes with the bench as certainly these 5 (along with the backup PG, not counting RoCo) are all your offense initiators, then also, even if D-Lo features as a "PG", you could still run a lot of possessions through Wiggs and have Russell as a catch and shoot guy, not to mention, at least 4 of the 5 are above average within their "positions" as passers, defense is a question mark, but should be able to switch a lot.

Teague can go, Gorgui is an ok player but his contract is something a contending team can't afford (not us at least since we already have KAT), Graham has shown nothing other than effort, Layman is pretty good considering his contract, guys like Nowell and Naz will for sure help next year.

RoCo is a bit questionable to me not necesarily due to his age, but in fact he's one of the most valuable pieces we have and while guys like Bertans or Gallinari aren't nearly as good defensively they could fit here, also if I had to choose between trading Culver or Okogie, I'd choose Josh as trade bait.

So I'd run with this for a 12 man squad

Russell / Wiggins / Culver / RoCo / KAT
Backup PG / Nowell / 3+D Swingman / 3+D Forward / Layman / Naz / Backup C


I have similar vision. Get DLo-Wiggins-KAT core, rotate lineups to have two of them on the floor most of the games. Let them gain some chemistry. I dont have a medical report of RoCo, but he is averaging 27,8mpg. Is it just load management or they know something? The key here is negotiation, if Rosas can low trade requirements to acceptable I will consider this a huge win for us. Let say Dieng, RoCo, lottery protected FRP for DLo. Let Teague contract expire. Sign Jerami Grant, re-sign Napier, Graham, Bell, Martin.

Russell/Wiggins/Culver/Grant/KAT
Napier/Nowell/Martin/Okogie/Graham/Layman/Naz/Bell

Another type of deal I'd be happy with: Teague, Culver, top5 protected FRP, SRP for DLo.


For some reason, totally forgot about KBD, so he'd take the 3+D forward spot, Bell as a cheap backup C could work and Napier not sure yet, he has interesting tools but need to see him play more and hopefully less with Teague.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#8 » by gandlogo » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:15 pm

Roco to Portland for Hood/Simmons/Trent
Okogie added to FRP to move up for Tobbin (at draft time)
Teague traded for a ball bag and some used Chuck Taylor's

KAT/Reid/Dieng
Tobbin/KBD
Hood/Layman
Wiggins/Nowell or Trent
Culver/Simmons

With Hood out for the year his minutes can be used on developmental guys (Nowell and Trent - maybe Martin?). Then again, I guess Okogie would still be on the squad during the season so minutes would go there too.

KBD gets the RoCo minutes this season, but moves back to the bench next year where he's better suited.

Not full on tank this season, but gets the roster packed with shooters and switchable defenders for the start of next season - and a high enough pick.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#9 » by wolfen » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:34 pm

gandlogo wrote:Roco to Portland for Hood/Simmons/Trent
Okogie added to FRP to move up for Tobbin (at draft time)
Teague traded for a ball bag and some used Chuck Taylor's

KAT/Reid/Dieng
Tobbin/KBD
Hood/Layman
Wiggins/Nowell or Trent
Culver/Simmons

With Hood out for the year his minutes can be used on developmental guys (Nowell and Trent - maybe Martin?). Then again, I guess Okogie would still be on the squad during the season so minutes would go there too.

KBD gets the RoCo minutes this season, but moves back to the bench next year where he's better suited.

Not full on tank this season, but gets the roster packed with shooters and switchable defenders for the start of next season - and a high enough pick.


That trade actually works in the trade machine and yes, I would do it for the reasons you mentioned. And I love Toppin as well, he's a dawg, we need some dawg on this team. That being said, if I trade Cov, I want to keep Okogie. Not sure there is another asset you could use in that scenario to get Toppin, but we may not need to trade up to get him if we are in the lottery.

Also, if we did nab Simmons (I like him more than most), drafting Tyrese Haliburton would make a TON of sense. Simons and WIGGINS (FIXED) are the guys who can create and get their own (and also deal), so having a PG like Haliburton would fit in there perfectly. The dude just "has it" at the PG position. His vision and anticipation is just off the charts, without a doubt, the best in the draft. He does ev-re-thing. Pushes the ball, passes it forward whenever he can, at 6-6 sees things through a crystal ball. Skinny? Sure, but 6rpg means he's tough, which he is. 8 apg, 16 ppg, very good defender who will only get stronger with time (almost 3 steals per game). He breaks down defenses off of the bounce and finds guys incredibly but can also finish with craft, length, floaters. He's not going to shoot many, if at all, pullup 3 pointers. BUT he is able to find open spaces to get that shot and he does have deep range. A bit of a set shot but he gets it up quickly and the length lets him get a clean release. IA vs. IA St. tonight, should be a fun one to watch.

KAT / Reid / Dieng
X / KBD / Layman
Wigs / Hood / Layman
Wigs / Culver / Okogie
Haliburton / Simons / Y

If Nowell surprises then great, but I wouldn't COUNT on him.

X possibilities in free agency: JaMychal Green, Markief Morris, Gallinari, Bertans

Y possibilities:
Free agency: Jevon Carter, Yogi Farrel, Jordan Clarkson
Draft: Round 2 - Cassius Winston, Tre Jones, Payton Pritchard
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#10 » by shrink » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:54 pm

Klomp wrote:Covington fits everything but the timeline, and that really doesn't matter as much at that position.

I agree, and I’m shocked to see Covington trades in a thread titled “Rosasian Roster.”

He is a perfect Rosas player.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#11 » by Klomp » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:57 pm

shrink wrote:
Klomp wrote:Covington fits everything but the timeline, and that really doesn't matter as much at that position.

I agree, and I’m shocked to see Covington trades in a thread titled “Rosasian Roster.”

He is a perfect Rosas player.

I think ultimately it'll come down to the PG position and how we feel. If we feel we need a major upgrade, Covington might be the only way to get a deal done there to get a top-flight guy there. That's the only way I see him dealt, is if it's part of a major deal (note: Simons and Little are not that). He's a perfect fit here, but he's also our best trade asset outside of Towns.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#12 » by TheZachAttack » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:43 pm

wolfen wrote:
gandlogo wrote:Roco to Portland for Hood/Simmons/Trent
Okogie added to FRP to move up for Tobbin (at draft time)
Teague traded for a ball bag and some used Chuck Taylor's

KAT/Reid/Dieng
Tobbin/KBD
Hood/Layman
Wiggins/Nowell or Trent
Culver/Simmons

With Hood out for the year his minutes can be used on developmental guys (Nowell and Trent - maybe Martin?). Then again, I guess Okogie would still be on the squad during the season so minutes would go there too.

KBD gets the RoCo minutes this season, but moves back to the bench next year where he's better suited.

Not full on tank this season, but gets the roster packed with shooters and switchable defenders for the start of next season - and a high enough pick.


That trade actually works in the trade machine and yes, I would do it for the reasons you mentioned. And I love Toppin as well, he's a dawg, we need some dawg on this team. That being said, if I trade Cov, I want to keep Okogie. Not sure there is another asset you could use in that scenario to get Toppin, but we may not need to trade up to get him if we are in the lottery.

Also, if we did nab Simmons (I like him more than most), drafting Tyrese Haliburton would make a TON of sense. Simons and Teague are the guys who can create and get their own (and also deal), so having a PG like Haliburton would fit in there perfectly. The dude just "has it" at the PG position. His vision and anticipation is just off the charts, without a doubt, the best in the draft. He does ev-re-thing. Pushes the ball, passes it forward whenever he can, at 6-6 sees things through a crystal ball. Skinny? Sure, but 6rpg means he's tough, which he is. 8 apg, 16 ppg, very good defender who will only get stronger with time (almost 3 steals per game). He breaks down defenses off of the bounce and finds guys incredibly but can also finish with craft, length, floaters. He's not going to shoot many, if at all, pullup 3 pointers. BUT he is able to find open spaces to get that shot and he does have deep range. A bit of a set shot but he gets it up quickly and the length lets him get a clean release. IA vs. IA St. tonight, should be a fun one to watch.

KAT / Reid / Dieng
X / KBD / Layman
Wigs / Hood / Layman
Wigs / Culver / Okogie
Haliburton / Simons / Y

If Nowell surprises then great, but I wouldn't COUNT on him.

X possibilities in free agency: JaMychal Green, Markief Morris, Gallinari, Bertans

Y possibilities:
Free agency: Jevon Carter, Yogi Farrel, Jordan Clarkson
Draft: Round 2 - Cassius Winston, Tre Jones, Payton Pritchard


I LOVE Haliburton. To me his peripherals, his game, and the trajectory I expect his career to go reminds me a lot of Malcom Brogden. To me, he's the perfect PG for the Wolves in the sense that he's the ultimate role player and makes a huge impact both spacing the floor and making the right play every time and in flow and would work great playing off of Wiggins and Towns.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#13 » by Jedzz » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:18 am

Klomp wrote:
wolfen wrote:For my money, if we kept Cov, we'd have to ship out Okogie. Sure, Wigs has gotten better as a play-maker and distributor, but IMO every single wing, except maybe one specialist, needs to be a playmaker, fluent in setting up others and using the dribble to do so, and/or being an excellent ball mover / passer. And because Cov is older and is probably a guy that can get back a first-round pick in a trade, I move Cov.

We can't trot out Wigs, Okogie, Cov, and Culver at the wing position as our rotation. Recent teams we've played, their play-making wings/combos, and specialists in parentheses:

PHX: Booker / Oubre (Bridges, C. Johnson)
OKC: SGA / Schroder - both "combos" (Roberson, Ferguson, Diallo)
LAL: Bron / KCP / Kuz (Green, Bradley)
LAC: Paul / Leonard / Williams / Shammet
DAL: Doncic / Hardaway Jr / Curry
SAS: DeRozan, Gay, younger guys Forbes, Walker

Teams that are in a similar boat with us, limited wing play-makers
Memphis: Dillon Brooks only
Cavs: Jordan Clarkson only (solid backup)
Bulls: Lavine
Hawks: Huerter, Crabbe (backups on good teams), 2 rooks, but you can't include them
Hornets: Ugh...
Magic: Fournier, Ross

I say we move either Cov or Okogie, both great defenders, for a legit scoring and passing wing who is not a liability on D. Honestly, our wing rotation, when it comes to dribbling the basketball, is among the worst in the league, ugh...

Just because the talk is about lineups with 3 wings doesn't mean the desired skill set is the same at all three starting wing positions. For example, PJ Tucker is very different from Eric Gordon, but they still would both be classified as wings in Houston. Covington is the perfect example of a Tucker-type wing. The only reason I think you trade him is if you feel that skill set is easily replaceable compared to the value Covington could bring in a trade.

Personally, I think the decision for us will come down to Okogie and Culver. I'm not sure both will be on the opening day roster next season.


Covington is replaceable at the wing "4" here. He was so much more deadly as a Roving SF both offensively and defensively. He could occasionally help defend a 4, but it was only when it worked for him, not his steady duty against a team running two bigs. We've seen him scoring more 3s lately because well, someone has to. But it's meant our defense is dropping off. It's not his best position to get the most out of him.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#14 » by wolfen » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:25 pm

Klomp wrote:
wolfen wrote:For my money, if we kept Cov, we'd have to ship out Okogie. Sure, Wigs has gotten better as a play-maker and distributor, but IMO every single wing, except maybe one specialist, needs to be a playmaker, fluent in setting up others and using the dribble to do so, and/or being an excellent ball mover / passer. And because Cov is older and is probably a guy that can get back a first-round pick in a trade, I move Cov.

We can't trot out Wigs, Okogie, Cov, and Culver at the wing position as our rotation. Recent teams we've played, their play-making wings/combos, and specialists in parentheses:

PHX: Booker / Oubre (Bridges, C. Johnson)
OKC: SGA / Schroder - both "combos" (Roberson, Ferguson, Diallo)
LAL: Bron / KCP / Kuz (Green, Bradley)
LAC: Paul / Leonard / Williams / Shammet
DAL: Doncic / Hardaway Jr / Curry
SAS: DeRozan, Gay, younger guys Forbes, Walker

Teams that are in a similar boat with us, limited wing play-makers
Memphis: Dillon Brooks only
Cavs: Jordan Clarkson only (solid backup)
Bulls: Lavine
Hawks: Huerter, Crabbe (backups on good teams), 2 rooks, but you can't include them
Hornets: Ugh...
Magic: Fournier, Ross

I say we move either Cov or Okogie, both great defenders, for a legit scoring and passing wing who is not a liability on D. Honestly, our wing rotation, when it comes to dribbling the basketball, is among the worst in the league, ugh...


Just because the talk is about lineups with 3 wings doesn't mean the desired skill set is the same at all three starting wing positions. For example, PJ Tucker is very different from Eric Gordon, but they still would both be classified as wings in Houston. Covington is the perfect example of a Tucker-type wing. The only reason I think you trade him is if you feel that skill set is easily replaceable compared to the value Covington could bring in a trade.

Personally, I think the decision for us will come down to Okogie and Culver. I'm not sure both will be on the opening day roster next season.


The Rockets are an anomaly in the fact that they have a generational player who does almost all of the playmaking by himself - the Beard. They can afford to have specialists in the rotation at the wing position who focus on one or 2 things, like 3's and defense, and not have to worry at all about facilitating things. Take the Beard off of that team and replace him with Wiggins (who has improved, mind you), and the Rockets record is the same as ours. They would be seriously short-handed with play-making and facilitation. You'd be left with a wing group of Wiggins, Gordon, McLemore, Tucker, Danuel House, and Gerald Green, and even with Westbrook leading that group, you've still got a major issue on the offensive end.

So hell yes, 3 & D guys like Cov, Tucker, Pat Beverly, Danny Green, Trevor Ariza, etc. are wonderful players and highly respected, unless they're on a team with a stud facilitator/scorer like the beard, Lebron, Kawhi, Greek Freak, Luka D, they become much less valuable and can contribute to offensive stagnation. Why do you think all of those 3 and D guys above are with the teams they are? They know d@mn well they are exponentially better on teams with the stud alpha. Ariza and Cov? Their teams are a combined 22-37 as I type this, I wonder why? Both of them would jump ship given the opportunity, to join said alpha-stud teams.

Such alpha studs don't grow on trees, so teams like the wolves need to find combos and wings who can handle the ball very well, facilitate, move without the basketball, and of course score. Obviously you look for guys in that boat who don't completely blow on defense. Two wolves who fit the bill for me with that description are Jake Layman and KBD. Before the season, I had given up on KBD, but he's on his way to proving me wrong (keep it up young man!). They both have good handles for their position, willing ball movers, are solid shooters / scorers, good cutters, move without the ball, and are at least average on the defensive end (love KBD's length). If you analyze the rest of the guards and wings on the roster, you gotta say Wigs is in that category of course now too, as his handles and facilitation, and defense have improved. Culver is certainly Rosasian but only IF he can develop that shot and also get stronger and a little meaner (too nice). Teague will be gone next year so no need to comment on him. Cov - you already know my viewpoint on that subject. Okogie is showing progress with his shot and is getting smarter attacking closeouts, but even if he does end up shooting in the high 30's from 3 in the future, he'll always be an EXTREMELY limited facilitator. I do want to keep him around long term though, as his defense and effort are infectious. Napier was a decent signing and we were hoping for "Rosasonian" with him in small stretches, but either his shot is off, or he's struggling on defense, sometimes both at the same time. A 1 year signing gamble though, that's ok.

In my opion, our Rosasian model should be the Heat. Jimmy is a great player but he is dependent on the type of teammates he has. He's surrounded with combos and wings who can handle the ball, facilitate, score, and play good defense. The Heat have lucked into 2 Rosasian players in the last year or 2 - Kendrick Nunn and Duncan Robinson. Holy cr@p how nice would it be to have your long term PG on a minimum deal through 22-23? Robinson is also signed for the minimum through 22-23 and plays starter minutes. Other wings and combo's on the squad include Dragic, Winslow, Herro. Even one of their bigs - Olynyk - is a solid scorer who can handle the ball, facilitate when needed, moves without the ball. A glut of Rosasian players. They've even got the PERFECT starting big in Bam to man the middle. I love Towns and yes, I'd rather have him over Bam, but the ultimate Rosasian team needs a bunch of good combos and wings along with a bad@ss in the middle who doesn't need the ball on offense and will board and defend.

Lunchbreak shot to h@ll but I enjoyed it! After tonight, here's to an 8-4 stretch over the next part of the easier schedule...
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#15 » by wolfen » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:08 pm

TheZachAttack wrote:
wolfen wrote:
gandlogo wrote:Roco to Portland for Hood/Simmons/Trent
Okogie added to FRP to move up for Tobbin (at draft time)
Teague traded for a ball bag and some used Chuck Taylor's

KAT/Reid/Dieng
Tobbin/KBD
Hood/Layman
Wiggins/Nowell or Trent
Culver/Simmons

With Hood out for the year his minutes can be used on developmental guys (Nowell and Trent - maybe Martin?). Then again, I guess Okogie would still be on the squad during the season so minutes would go there too.

KBD gets the RoCo minutes this season, but moves back to the bench next year where he's better suited.

Not full on tank this season, but gets the roster packed with shooters and switchable defenders for the start of next season - and a high enough pick.


That trade actually works in the trade machine and yes, I would do it for the reasons you mentioned. And I love Toppin as well, he's a dawg, we need some dawg on this team. That being said, if I trade Cov, I want to keep Okogie. Not sure there is another asset you could use in that scenario to get Toppin, but we may not need to trade up to get him if we are in the lottery.

Also, if we did nab Simmons (I like him more than most), drafting Tyrese Haliburton would make a TON of sense. Simons and Teague are the guys who can create and get their own (and also deal), so having a PG like Haliburton would fit in there perfectly. The dude just "has it" at the PG position. His vision and anticipation is just off the charts, without a doubt, the best in the draft. He does ev-re-thing. Pushes the ball, passes it forward whenever he can, at 6-6 sees things through a crystal ball. Skinny? Sure, but 6rpg means he's tough, which he is. 8 apg, 16 ppg, very good defender who will only get stronger with time (almost 3 steals per game). He breaks down defenses off of the bounce and finds guys incredibly but can also finish with craft, length, floaters. He's not going to shoot many, if at all, pullup 3 pointers. BUT he is able to find open spaces to get that shot and he does have deep range. A bit of a set shot but he gets it up quickly and the length lets him get a clean release. IA vs. IA St. tonight, should be a fun one to watch.

KAT / Reid / Dieng
X / KBD / Layman
Wigs / Hood / Layman
Wigs / Culver / Okogie
Haliburton / Simons / Y

If Nowell surprises then great, but I wouldn't COUNT on him.

X possibilities in free agency: JaMychal Green, Markief Morris, Gallinari, Bertans

Y possibilities:
Free agency: Jevon Carter, Yogi Farrel, Jordan Clarkson
Draft: Round 2 - Cassius Winston, Tre Jones, Payton Pritchard


I LOVE Haliburton. To me his peripherals, his game, and the trajectory I expect his career to go reminds me a lot of Malcom Brogden. To me, he's the perfect PG for the Wolves in the sense that he's the ultimate role player and makes a huge impact both spacing the floor and making the right play every time and in flow and would work great playing off of Wiggins and Towns.


TH played a solid game last night against the Hawks. Good article from the Ringer recently on TH:
https://www.theringer.com/2019/11/27/20984769/tyrese-haliburton-iowa-state-nba-draft-prospect. If the clones had a better supporting cast, TH would average easily 10 apg, as it is, he still gets 8. He's the George Gervin of PGs ;-) Anyways, some thoughts on Rosasian types who might be in the draft this summer...

Rosasian guards/wings/stretch 4's
*Focusing on some that I know of, not necessarily high lotto guys
Nico Manion - For the most Rosasian PG in the draft, don't even have to elaborate.
Tyrese Haliburton - See my comments above in the thread.
Jordan Nwora - get him on the wolves please...
Killian Tillie - dude can shoot and plays hard. Really good passer. Only question is long term health.
Cassius Winston - He's got the ball in his hands a lot, but he's not a ball stopper, a winner. Is he strong enough is the question. If Monte Morris can do it (same size and Winston), then so can Cassius.
Payton Pritchard - The dude is TJ McConnell but with a shot and waaay more confidence to put pressure on the D. I would LOVE this kid in camp next year to compete for a roster spot. Again, a PG who puts up really good offensive numbers but doesn't hog or stop the ball is the Rosas recipe IMO. The kid is tough and could turn out to be a helluva backup PG in the league. You just don't hear about him because he plays on the west coast and isn't super flashy.

Potential Rosasians
Tre Jones - will the shot develop and will he be aggressive on the offensive end are the questions.

Anti-Rosasians?
I am not saying I wouldn't draft these dudes, but I REALLY worry about their tendencies to hog the ball, stop the ball, not move much off the ball. Cole Anthony, Tyrese Maxey.

Potential Rosasian Bigs
*Monsters in the middle who can rebound, defend, score when needed, don't stagnate the ball, and don't need plays called for them.
I'll be honest, at this point, I haven't seen enough of these guys, but their scouting reports and articles are forcing me to put them on the maybe list.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#16 » by Klomp » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:58 pm

wolfen wrote:The Rockets are an anomaly in the fact that they have a generational player who does almost all of the playmaking by himself - the Beard. They can afford to have specialists in the rotation at the wing position who focus on one or 2 things, like 3's and defense, and not have to worry at all about facilitating things. Take the Beard off of that team and replace him with Wiggins (who has improved, mind you), and the Rockets record is the same as ours. They would be seriously short-handed with play-making and facilitation. You'd be left with a wing group of Wiggins, Gordon, McLemore, Tucker, Danuel House, and Gerald Green, and even with Westbrook leading that group, you've still got a major issue on the offensive end.

So hell yes, 3 & D guys like Cov, Tucker, Pat Beverly, Danny Green, Trevor Ariza, etc. are wonderful players and highly respected, unless they're on a team with a stud facilitator/scorer like the beard, Lebron, Kawhi, Greek Freak, Luka D, they become much less valuable and can contribute to offensive stagnation. Why do you think all of those 3 and D guys above are with the teams they are? They know d@mn well they are exponentially better on teams with the stud alpha. Ariza and Cov? Their teams are a combined 22-37 as I type this, I wonder why? Both of them would jump ship given the opportunity, to join said alpha-stud teams.

For the record, I don't believe that we don't need more playmaking, I just don't think it will come from the 4 spot. Playmakers/facilitators will be at the 1, 2 and 3.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#17 » by Calinks » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:53 am

Been thinking it over and hearing some talk. Really starting to think that the long term answer may be moving KAT to the 4.

He is just not as big as most center who are anchoring a defense. These guys out class him in size and strength. The NBA is getting bigger lately, small ball still works but you need a lot of talent in the back court to make it work.

KAT at the four next to a stretch 5 who is big and can anchor the paint while moving ROCO back to the 3 seems like it could be really effective. We would suddenly be a big team, probably have good interior rebounding, and other bigs can't just body KAT in the paint. The 5 man doesn't have to be a great defender but it would help. More importantly is that they could stretch the floor and we could stick mostly to our style of play.

Two names I heard thrown around (not necessarily that they would be here but as prototypes for how this would look like, were Brook Lopez and Myles Turner. In the past I felt like KAT would be better at the 4. He has all the tools to play it. He suffers a lot on defense but he is physically out matched by so many of the best 5's.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#18 » by Jedzz » Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:30 am

Calinks wrote:Been thinking it over and hearing some talk. Really starting to think that the long term answer may be moving KAT to the 4.

He is just not as big as most center who are anchoring a defense. These guys out class him in size and strength. The NBA is getting bigger lately, small ball still works but you need a lot of talent in the back court to make it work.

KAT at the four next to a stretch 5 who is big and can anchor the paint while moving ROCO back to the 3 seems like it could be really effective. We would suddenly be a big team, probably have good interior rebounding, and other bigs can't just body KAT in the paint. The 5 man doesn't have to be a great defender but it would help. More importantly is that they could stretch the floor and we could stick mostly to our style of play.

Two names I heard thrown around (not necessarily that they would be here but as prototypes for how this would look like, were Brook Lopez and Myles Turner. In the past I felt like KAT would be better at the 4. He has all the tools to play it. He suffers a lot on defense but he is physically out matched by so many of the best 5's.


I think it's an option.

They should at least entertain the thought. Entertain the thought of many things. For if this team looks like it has lately for the rest of the season and next it won't matter what the Rosasian roster would have looked like, they will blow him and all his plans right out of here like every GM and coach before him.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#19 » by Klomp » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:29 am

Calinks wrote:Been thinking it over and hearing some talk. Really starting to think that the long term answer may be moving KAT to the 4.

He is just not as big as most center who are anchoring a defense. These guys out class him in size and strength. The NBA is getting bigger lately, small ball still works but you need a lot of talent in the back court to make it work.

KAT at the four next to a stretch 5 who is big and can anchor the paint while moving ROCO back to the 3 seems like it could be really effective. We would suddenly be a big team, probably have good interior rebounding, and other bigs can't just body KAT in the paint. The 5 man doesn't have to be a great defender but it would help. More importantly is that they could stretch the floor and we could stick mostly to our style of play.

Two names I heard thrown around (not necessarily that they would be here but as prototypes for how this would look like, were Brook Lopez and Myles Turner. In the past I felt like KAT would be better at the 4. He has all the tools to play it. He suffers a lot on defense but he is physically out matched by so many of the best 5's.

Unless we get someone like Wiseman in the draft, I just don't know if it's worth it. For example, Dieng is basically the same size as Towns so it's not like you get any bigger at the 5 by moving him, which is your whole reason for moving him.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#20 » by Jedzz » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:01 pm

Klomp wrote:
Calinks wrote:Been thinking it over and hearing some talk. Really starting to think that the long term answer may be moving KAT to the 4.

He is just not as big as most center who are anchoring a defense. These guys out class him in size and strength. The NBA is getting bigger lately, small ball still works but you need a lot of talent in the back court to make it work.

KAT at the four next to a stretch 5 who is big and can anchor the paint while moving ROCO back to the 3 seems like it could be really effective. We would suddenly be a big team, probably have good interior rebounding, and other bigs can't just body KAT in the paint. The 5 man doesn't have to be a great defender but it would help. More importantly is that they could stretch the floor and we could stick mostly to our style of play.

Two names I heard thrown around (not necessarily that they would be here but as prototypes for how this would look like, were Brook Lopez and Myles Turner. In the past I felt like KAT would be better at the 4. He has all the tools to play it. He suffers a lot on defense but he is physically out matched by so many of the best 5's.

Unless we get someone like Wiseman in the draft, I just don't know if it's worth it. For example, Dieng is basically the same size as Towns so it's not like you get any bigger at the 5 by moving him, which is your whole reason for moving him.


I'm not sure it's about size entirely. It's how big they play in their head too. Bell doesn't have the size, but he will get in the face of some of these guys. Dieng is no smaller than say Horace Grant in his day. It just needs to be communicated to them that if they are moving Towns to PF and they play alongside him, it's their life to take on the opposing center meat. That's the role, get after it or lose it.

Did Dennis Rodman not take on anyone that came his way? Which is kind of who Bell reminds me of bringing positives to rotations without scoring much. I don't see Covington with his spindly legs being a boss defender against bigs. It's a weakness that certainly doesn't help Towns. Taj was small too. A big defensive net rejection here and there a couple times a game can respark a team just like offensive scoring plays. Towns has occasionally shown the ability, but mentally he backs off against the big boys. That's how Okogie has sparked the team more than a few times. We need more of those rejections around the net. Maybe none of our bigs can handle it alone and need to share the duty to be able to put enough energy into it during their call to duty. Maybe that guy isn't yet on the roster. But it's not like they have attempted everything with who they have. Which is why at least trying to pull Towns off the Centers should maybe be tried.

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