The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020

[TheZachAttack]

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Good inside effort from Culver that game, good post. Yet, still only two of those possessions did he leave his feet and get up on the rim. I heard them say "sticktoittiveness" and that fits. Going strong at that rim, twice. He came from baseline both sides though, and pretty much was our guy there and want to see more.

His confidence is a work in progress. But all his points, except for a corner 3 were inside. He (and Edwards) are better when they can get some space to drive instead of settling for jumpers.

The get to the rim thing and spacing is a lot more difficult with a lot more traffic when KAT is out. KAT pulling the opposing teams big, and theoretically best rim defender, out to the three point line is so huge.

[Killboard]

Good inside effort from Culver that game, good post. Yet, still only two of those possessions did he leave his feet and get up on the rim. I heard them say "sticktoittiveness" and that fits. Going strong at that rim, twice. He came from baseline both sides though, and pretty much was our guy there and want to see more.

His confidence is a work in progress. But all his points, except for a corner 3 were inside. He (and Edwards) are better when they can get some space to drive instead of settling for jumpers.

The get to the rim thing and spacing is a lot more difficult with a lot more traffic when KAT is out. KAT pulling the opposing teams big, and theoretically best rim defender, out to the three point line is so huge.

Yes, and getting blocked or missing close shots in traffic affect confidence in young players. The Wolves are commited to have one shooter big at all times, and ideally two, that with KAT out isn't possible.

[Jedzz]

Good inside effort from Culver that game, good post. Yet, still only two of those possessions did he leave his feet and get up on the rim. I heard them say "sticktoittiveness" and that fits. Going strong at that rim, twice. He came from baseline both sides though, and pretty much was our guy there and want to see more.

His confidence is a work in progress. But all his points, except for a corner 3 were inside. He (and Edwards) are better when they can get some space to drive instead of settling for jumpers.

The get to the rim thing and spacing is a lot more difficult with a lot more traffic when KAT is out. KAT pulling the opposing teams big, and theoretically best rim defender, out to the three point line is so huge.

So what? We have other 3pt shooters. One player is down means next man up and carry on best you can. It doesn't mean go hide under a shell until Kat comes back because you will never get open lanes again.

I don't see good players in this league shying away from a defender in the paint. They go after the Wolves standing in the paint all day long. They blast in or they finesse in and they go under, over, through or around and they go for that rim. What usually happens? A defender gets bumped and either is set or he isn't in time. Go hard and fast enough and they are often not set yet. Go in weak, you will find a set player in your face. Dribble around in the paint and try to go from down up...expect trouble unless your name is Ja Morant, Derrick Rose, or JMac. NBA players don't have to have a clear empty lane every time. You work toward creating those if you can, that's all.

[Jedzz]

His confidence is a work in progress. But all his points, except for a corner 3 were inside. He (and Edwards) are better when they can get some space to drive instead of settling for jumpers.

The get to the rim thing and spacing is a lot more difficult with a lot more traffic when KAT is out. KAT pulling the opposing teams big, and theoretically best rim defender, out to the three point line is so huge.

Yes, and getting blocked or missing close shots in traffic affect confidence in young players. The Wolves are commited to have one shooter big at all times, and ideally two, that with KAT out isn't possible.

It's only impossible because of their choices. At any time they can go sign Patton or anyone else out there available that can shoot from the outside. They have had Juancho, could have started him next to Reid all six games and both can threaten from 3.

If our guys need a wide open lane or a fast break to get to the rim or they will hide from anything else then they don't deserve to play. I saw Culver hesitate for a second while he dribbled yesterday, almost decided not to but then he absolutely did go through Jokic to get to the rim! It was highly contested by Jokic and it started to role out. But Davis helped put it back. Those are the good things that can happen when they will go after it. Team absolutely needs more of that from their large wings. Instead of putting up yet another scared floater that bounces 3 feet off the rim. Save those for the smaller wings and hope they have the touch.

[TheZachAttack]

His confidence is a work in progress. But all his points, except for a corner 3 were inside. He (and Edwards) are better when they can get some space to drive instead of settling for jumpers.

The get to the rim thing and spacing is a lot more difficult with a lot more traffic when KAT is out. KAT pulling the opposing teams big, and theoretically best rim defender, out to the three point line is so huge.

So what? We have other 3pt shooters. One player is down means next man up and carry on best you can. It doesn't mean go hide under a shell until Kat comes back because you will never get open lanes again.

I don't see good players in this league shying away from a defender in the paint. They go after the Wolves standing in the paint all day long. They blast in or they finesse in and they go under, over, through or around and they go for that rim. What usually happens? A defender gets bumped and either is set or he isn't in time. Go hard and fast enough and they are often not set yet. Go in weak, you will find a set player in your face. Dribble around in the paint and try to go from down up...expect trouble unless your name is Ja Morant, Derrick Rose, or JMac. NBA players don't have to have a clear empty lane every time. You work toward creating those if you can, that's all.

I never said that is an excuse. I am simply pointing out the unique value of having a 5 who is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league and playing him in a 5 out offense. Denying that there is no impact seems like a dumb idea. I was just trying to make a positive comment about the Rosasian roster and vision at full strength. Even better if we have other shooters, but the point is the impact of also pulling the opposing teams 5 outside of the paint and the excitement of having a player like Edwards in that system at full strength

[Jedzz]

The get to the rim thing and spacing is a lot more difficult with a lot more traffic when KAT is out. KAT pulling the opposing teams big, and theoretically best rim defender, out to the three point line is so huge.

So what? We have other 3pt shooters. One player is down means next man up and carry on best you can. It doesn't mean go hide under a shell until Kat comes back because you will never get open lanes again.

I don't see good players in this league shying away from a defender in the paint. They go after the Wolves standing in the paint all day long. They blast in or they finesse in and they go under, over, through or around and they go for that rim. What usually happens? A defender gets bumped and either is set or he isn't in time. Go hard and fast enough and they are often not set yet. Go in weak, you will find a set player in your face. Dribble around in the paint and try to go from down up...expect trouble unless your name is Ja Morant, Derrick Rose, or JMac. NBA players don't have to have a clear empty lane every time. You work toward creating those if you can, that's all.

I never said that is an excuse. I am simply pointing out the unique value of having a 5 who is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league and playing him in a 5 out offense. Denying that there is no impact seems like a dumb idea. I was just trying to make a positive comment about the Rosasian roster and vision at full strength. Even better if we have other shooters, but the point is the impact of also pulling the opposing teams 5 outside of the paint and the excitement of having a player like Edwards in that system at full strength

Who's denying there is no impact? It's meaningless. Next Man Up and everyone else keeps doing their job. It was used as an excuse and ten others already have. Culver is developing and starting to, but just starting to. That's great! I just love reminding all the people that want to make all these youngsters the team's starters all the time that they simply aren't ready for starting roles until they can already do these things with confidence they built up doing it a little at a time if that's what they need. He's one of those.

[TheZachAttack]

So what? We have other 3pt shooters. One player is down means next man up and carry on best you can. It doesn't mean go hide under a shell until Kat comes back because you will never get open lanes again.

I don't see good players in this league shying away from a defender in the paint. They go after the Wolves standing in the paint all day long. They blast in or they finesse in and they go under, over, through or around and they go for that rim. What usually happens? A defender gets bumped and either is set or he isn't in time. Go hard and fast enough and they are often not set yet. Go in weak, you will find a set player in your face. Dribble around in the paint and try to go from down up...expect trouble unless your name is Ja Morant, Derrick Rose, or JMac. NBA players don't have to have a clear empty lane every time. You work toward creating those if you can, that's all.

I never said that is an excuse. I am simply pointing out the unique value of having a 5 who is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league and playing him in a 5 out offense. Denying that there is no impact seems like a dumb idea. I was just trying to make a positive comment about the Rosasian roster and vision at full strength. Even better if we have other shooters, but the point is the impact of also pulling the opposing teams 5 outside of the paint and the excitement of having a player like Edwards in that system at full strength

Who's denying there is no impact? It's meaningless. Next Man Up and everyone else keeps doing their job. It was used as an excuse and ten others already have. Culver is developing and starting to, but just starting to. That's great! I just love reminding all the people that want to make all these youngsters the team's starters all the time that they simply aren't ready for starting roles until they can already do these things with confidence they built up doing it a little at a time if that's what they need. He's one of those.

Sure. There’s a time and place for that. I was just discussing the Rosasian roster and the way his roster and system is trying to maximize its players.

We need our other key players to still make a positive impact when the system around them isn’t maximized. Not everything can be perfect.

[urinesane]

The desire for Wiseman is no doubt amplified by the absence of Towns. If Towns were here, Wiseman would be getting under 20 minutes a game. The potential for a greater role would also be a more difficult path due to the presence of Towns.

We will never know for sure how Wiseman would've been here. Maybe he'd be great. Maybe he'd be mediocre. The amount of success one has for one franchise cannot be automatically translated into the same success for another franchise.

Very true, but at some point they have to get some legit size at PF. It's not fair to ask Layman and Juancho to produce at that position when they are severely out muscled constantly on defense (then we expect them to have a spark on offense where they get few opportunities while Edwards and DLo play hero ball).

The lack of a legit PF is creating a domino effect throughout all aspects of the game.

If they viewed Wiseman (or Towns) as a PF, I think Wiseman would've been the pick.

I was hoping they would be creative rather than chasing the coat tails of whatever the latest fad in the NBA is and doing a cheap knockoff version of it (that doesn't work well against teams with size OR with teams actually building a good small ball system).

When you have Jarrett F'ing Culver at PF, you kind of have thrown out the concept of positions anyway, may as well try something that could actually work as a way to exploit current trends (I.E. two athletic bigs that can be versatile).

[wolfen]

Thought I'd dig this thread back up even though it's from 2020, but the content carries over. I haven't chimed in for weeks so I guess I feel the need to spit out my thoughts...

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If Simmons is acquired for D-Lo and Beas (and whatever pieces)..

Nowell
Ant
Jmac
Simmons
KAT

-D-Lo and Beas traded to Philly.
-Assuming Rubio is traded somewhere.

-PG minutes: Nowell / Balmaro / Simmons
-Wing minutes: Ant / Jmac / Simmons / Okogie
-"Big" minutes: KAT / Naz / Simmons / D. Theiss / Rookie Lob Catcher

-Theiss - Free agent MLE signing
*Can play 4 or 5.
*Physical presence to fill in holes that KAT and Naz lack.
*GREAT screener to get guys loose.

-Rookie Lob Catcher - Jerrico Simms
*Try to find an undrafted lob catcher with athleticism.
*Possibilities could be Simms, Queta, Maker
*Teams don't currently have to defend vertically against the wolves from 10 feet in, that is a big hole.
*A player of this type would be perfect on the other end of passes from Simmons & Balmaro
*Maybe this undrafted player pans out, maybe not, but take a shot at it.
*Other player names that could fit this category that might go undrafted that I didn't mention?

-PG - "The weakness"??
*I honestly think Nowell would do just fine in the starting lineup. He's a good shooter, adequated defender, and he wouldn't have to do the biggest share of the play-making with Ant & Simmons on the floor. I think he could average 13 / 4 / 4 as a starter on the wolves and would prevent the PG starter from being a non-shooter (Rubio, Balmaro).
*Again, Simmons would play PG as well.
*Balmaro is the gamble at the backup PG. It sure sounds like he's ready to play 15 mins a night right out of the gate. Good defender and passer, super fast, and good in transition.

-Shooting - With Simmons, you need shooters around him and having another starter in the lineup next to him that is a non-shooter (such as Rubio) wouldn't work, which is why I'm penciling in Nowell. Nowell, KAT, Ant, and Jmac are all shooters that can't be left alone on the offensive end, so this linuep on paper works.

-Attractive Free Agent destination
*With KAT, Simmons, and Ant, we become a more attractive free agent destination. Maybe a stud PG would want to sign in 2022 after next year. Maybe a stud PF, who knows. But you can't deny that 'sota would be a popular destination for free agens if Simmons were brought in alongside KAT and Ant.

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If we stand pat and no major moves are made...

*Minor moves - Rubio traded, D Theiss signed with MLE

D-Lo
Ant
Jmac
Naz
KAT

PG minutes: D-Lo / Nowell / Balmaro
Wing minutes: Ant / Jmac / Beasley / Nowell / Okogie
Bigs minutes: KAT / Naz / Theiss / Jerrico Simms / Juancho

*We just can't start Beasley over Naz. A back court of DLo, Ant, and Beasley together is a massive fail on defense.
*It's time to see if Naz and KAT can start together. If it doesn't work then you could start Theiss at the 5 and Towns at the 4.
*Hopefully Jmac takes the next step and becomes an even more confident offensive player. He'll be the defacto player to guard the other team's stud wing (they all have them). Hoping he'll put on some pounds and add strength this summer.
*Beasley off the bench would be just huge for the 2nd unit with his scoring.
*Nowell would lead the 2nd unit and sprinkle in Balmaro in there too if he shows he's ready right out of the gate.
*Okogie of course would anchor the defense for the bench unit.
*Theiss would add the physical presence for the bench unit.
*If Juancho can play like he did at the end of the previous year when we first signed him, he can get spot minutes to add shooting.
*Simms could be your developmental lob catcher, might pan out, might not.

*Theiss is the X factor signing. If he isn't signed, this squad will be a fringe playoff team, but if he is, he adds the flexibility and defense to either the starting lineup or bench.

-------------------------------------------------

The 2nd scenario is the more likely scenario. You'd like to see these developments for next year:

1. D-Lo consistently plays at the level he did the 2nd half of the season.
2. Ant plays at the level he did during the 2nd half of the season, and possibly even better (more efficient, 36% from deep, a little better defensively).
3. Jmac puts on some weight and strength and takes the next step offensively and plays as good on defense, if not better.
4. Naz comes into camp in top shape and healthy and plays at least solid defense.
5. Beas accepts the bench role and puts up the same shooting numbers as he did last year.
6. Balmaro comes in ready to go, plays good D, plays smart, distributes the ball, isn't a complete liability shooting from 3 (low 30's would be enough to keep defenses honest).
7. Nowell plays well as the backup 1 and 2 and takes another step on both sides of the ball.
8. Simms, being an older prospect who is physically ready, shows that he can set good screens on the P/R and provide a lob threat to force teams to defend that air space (the dude is huge and a pogo-stick, and even has a nice floater on the short roll).

1-2 developments happen: 35 wins, play-in game for playoffs.
3-4 developments happen: 40 wins, 7-8 seed.
5-6 developments happen: 45 wins, 4-5 seed.
7 or more: 2-3 seed

The suns made the jump from "meh" to contenders in a short period of time. If things go right for our squad as it is with the developments above, the future is more than bright. You know what you'll get from KAT and Theiss. If the surrounding cast can make strides then we'll be locked and loaded. It seems the west is showing some parity and if a squad can "pop" in certain areas, that squad can jump up sooner rather than later.

Wolfen's thoughts for the day... What say you?

[TheZachAttack]

Genuine question, how many non-"big" defensive players would you rather have in the NBA than Jaden McDaniels? I've been exploring how to value McDaniels as he may have to be a piece in a trade that gets you some of the players that have been discussed recently. The impact of bigs like Davis, Gobert, Bam, Embiid, and Draymond with his versatility is un-deniable. However, those players are all bigs that can guard centers, provide rim protection, and to some degree then as a secondary skill they are able to switch onto the perimeter better than most guys who are rim protectors.

I think the only players that really compete with McDaniels versatility to excel in different ways defensive are Giannis, Durant, Simmons, and Lebron. Those are all players that can play up positions and provide weak-side rim protection, while also being able to be elite at either being a point of attack defender on opposing teams best perimeter player or being an really impactful playing in a switching defense off-ball and still able to guard smaller and bigger guards/wings.

Guys like Thybulle and Holiday are really good point of attack defenders or perimeter defenders, but they can't really both play up and guard bigger wings like Luka and Giannis types. They also can't provide the type of weak-side rim protection and even guard most 4's like McDaniels can. McDaniels can play up and impact them with their length and then also play down and guard smaller guards as well and stay with them athletically while also providing really strong rim protection and vertacality.

Kahwi, Giannis, Durant, Lebron, and Simmons can do all of those things and be versatile in that way in which they can be a difference maker in multiple schemes and in multiple ways depending on matchups and what is most impactful given the other teams roster. All of them except for Simmons don't really take that lead-responsibility consistently or play with the level of effort that McDaniels does defensively because of age or offensive load that they have to carry--though they may be able to turn that on in clutch moments or for spurts.

I genuinely think that McDaniels, if the Wolves find team success, has a chance to become known as a truly elite wing defender behind really only Simmons and probably Giannis in terms of impact during a season.

That's pretty crazy that he's that type of guy. It sounds outlandish, but take away narratives and genuinely who would you rather have than McDaniels as a wing defender for the next few seasons? I genuinely don't think there is many guys who you'd rather have if you were picking players.

[Nick K]

Genuine question, how many non-"big" defensive players would you rather have in the NBA than Jaden McDaniels? I've been exploring how to value McDaniels as he may have to be a piece in a trade that gets you some of the players that have been discussed recently. The impact of bigs like Davis, Gobert, Bam, Embiid, and Draymond with his versatility is un-deniable. However, those players are all bigs that can guard centers, provide rim protection, and to some degree then as a secondary skill they are able to switch onto the perimeter better than most guys who are rim protectors.

I think the only players that really compete with McDaniels versatility to excel in different ways defensive are Giannis, Durant, Simmons, and Lebron. Those are all players that can play up positions and provide weak-side rim protection, while also being able to be elite at either being a point of attack defender on opposing teams best perimeter player or being an really impactful playing in a switching defense off-ball and still able to guard smaller and bigger guards/wings.

Guys like Thybulle and Holiday are really good point of attack defenders or perimeter defenders, but they can't really both play up and guard bigger wings like Luka and Giannis types. They also can't provide the type of weak-side rim protection and even guard most 4's like McDaniels can. McDaniels can play up and impact them with their length and then also play down and guard smaller guards as well and stay with them athletically while also providing really strong rim protection and vertacality.

Kahwi, Giannis, Durant, Lebron, and Simmons can do all of those things and be versatile in that way in which they can be a difference maker in multiple schemes and in multiple ways depending on matchups and what is most impactful given the other teams roster. All of them except for Simmons don't really take that lead-responsibility consistently or play with the level of effort that McDaniels does defensively because of age or offensive load that they have to carry--though they may be able to turn that on in clutch moments or for spurts.

I genuinely think that McDaniels, if the Wolves find team success, has a chance to become known as a truly elite wing defender behind really only Simmons and probably Giannis in terms of impact during a season.

That's pretty crazy that he's that type of guy. It sounds outlandish, but take away narratives and genuinely who would you rather have than McDaniels as a wing defender for the next few seasons? I genuinely don't think there is many guys who you'd rather have if you were picking players.

I love McD too and he's untouchable within reason for me. I see him as our SF of the future and he can swing PF as needed. His SF offensive game is going to blow up next year I'm thinking. He's a tremendous talent.

Our core of Dlo, Ant, McD, Simmons? and Kat has me very excited.