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The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020

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Re: The 

Post#41 » by southern wolf » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:17 am

minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:It's do or die time.


Both KAT and Wiggins are 24yrs old. Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell, Reid even less.


How many more seasons without playoffs will KAT put up with before he requests a trade though? There needs to be a bit of urgency for that reason.
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Re: The 

Post#42 » by Klomp » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:44 am

southern wolf wrote:How many more seasons without playoffs will KAT put up with before he requests a trade though? There needs to be a bit of urgency for that reason.

If he asks out, we'll get a haul. 24-year old on Year 1 of a 5-year deal with no options.
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Re: The 

Post#43 » by Worm Guts » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:01 pm

southern wolf wrote:
minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:It's do or die time.


Both KAT and Wiggins are 24yrs old. Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell, Reid even less.


How many more seasons without playoffs will KAT put up with before he requests a trade though? There needs to be a bit of urgency for that reason.


If we can’t get to the playoffs with KAT, I’m not sure we should feel bad about trying something different.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#44 » by Slim Tubby » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:03 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
southern wolf wrote:
minimus wrote:
Both KAT and Wiggins are 24yrs old. Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell, Reid even less.


How many more seasons without playoffs will KAT put up with before he requests a trade though? There needs to be a bit of urgency for that reason.


If we can’t get to the playoffs with KAT, I’m not sure we should feel bad about trying something different.


Agreed....another season in the crapper before Christmas. We’ve seen this story play out more times than I’ve watched Tommy Boy. At this point, I’m all for tanking for Wiseman and trading KAT for a huge haul of young talent and draft picks. I still have faith in Rosas, though.


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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#45 » by Calinks » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:36 am

I still think you got to trade Wiggins if you can without killing your finances/future.

Long term priority is to find a go to number 1 option. I really believe its way harder to win it all if your best player is a Big, especially if they aren't amazing defensively. KAT has to be a number 2 option, we need a number one wing or guard to elevate into title contention.

I love KAT but I'd even trade him if I felt like I was getting a future superstar small. It's a must have player, NBA is designed around wings and guards.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#46 » by Klomp » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:46 am

Calinks wrote:I love KAT but I'd even trade him if I felt like I was getting a future superstar small. It's a must have player, NBA is designed around wings and guards.

Wing, probably.
Small, depends how small.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#47 » by Calinks » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:56 am

Klomp wrote:
Calinks wrote:I love KAT but I'd even trade him if I felt like I was getting a future superstar small. It's a must have player, NBA is designed around wings and guards.

Wing, probably.
Small, depends how small.

Way I see it in order of importance for them to be the best player for a chip.

Wing>>PG>>>>Big
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#48 » by FinnTheHuman » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:39 am

I want Malik Beasley. Too low minutes means low production means he won’t cost too much, but too good to cost very little. Throwing 13-15 mil at the guy per season for 4 years is what I’d easily do. He’s burried below Murray, Gary Harris, Monta Moriss, Barton in the rotation, but the kid will imo be better than any of them in a couple of years, that’s how high I’m on him. Might give us that 3rd star from the SG position if we take the risk. Wonder if he caught anybody else’s eye here?
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#49 » by old school 34 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:02 am

FinnTheHuman wrote:I want Malik Beasley. Too low minutes means low production means he won’t cost too much, but too good to cost very little. Throwing 13-15 mil at the guy per season for 4 years is what I’d easily do. He’s burried below Murray, Gary Harris, Monta Moriss, Barton in the rotation, but the kid will imo be better than any of them in a couple of years, that’s how high I’m on him. Might give us that 3rd star from the SG position if we take the risk. Wonder if he caught anybody else’s eye here?
Liked him going back to his FL state days....came out probably too soon for the situation and/or team he ended up on that might stunt his 2nd contract? One could argue it also gave him time to develop & not flame out....but pretty confident that he ends up somewhere else next year in much larger role & in discussions for 'Most improved'.

He to me is exactly the type of wings that Rosas is looking for...plays D...can hit a 3...& secondary play maker some. Maybe not star, but definitely championship worthy rotation guy...I feel.

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Re: The 

Post#50 » by southern wolf » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:32 am

Worm Guts wrote:
southern wolf wrote:
minimus wrote:
Both KAT and Wiggins are 24yrs old. Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell, Reid even less.


How many more seasons without playoffs will KAT put up with before he requests a trade though? There needs to be a bit of urgency for that reason.


If we can’t get to the playoffs with KAT, I’m not sure we should feel bad about trying something different.


We can get to the playoffs with KAT though, just not with the current supporting cast.
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Re: The 

Post#51 » by Dewey » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:33 pm

southern wolf wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
southern wolf wrote:
How many more seasons without playoffs will KAT put up with before he requests a trade though? There needs to be a bit of urgency for that reason.


If we can’t get to the playoffs with KAT, I’m not sure we should feel bad about trying something different.


We can get to the playoffs with KAT though, just not with the current supporting cast.

We might be able to get there with a couple changes and 100% healthy, but unlikely to compete IMO. I'm hoping our ownership/front office intends to build a championship caliber franchise - Kat or no Kat - rather than a one-and-done.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#52 » by TheProdigy » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:09 pm

I do not envy the position that Rosas is in. It's becoming apparent that this team does not bring sustainable and consistent energy. Look at the performances immediately after the Jimmy Butler trade last year, and the first ~15 games of this season. When they're trying to send a message, they play like a playoff team. After a while though, the momentum wears off and we're back to playing lackluster low effort basketball (defense is about effort!).

Rosas can talk about changing the culture of this team and making it more analytically oriented. That is the right approach but I don't know how you can make our two best players change their stripes. When your two best players are inconsistent with their effort, I don't think you have any chance of winning a championship because the playoffs are a grind.

Hate to say it, but I'm teetering closer and closer to thinking we need to blow it up and rebuild.
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Re: The 

Post#53 » by SmokeyPaw » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:42 pm

old school 34 wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:I want Malik Beasley. Too low minutes means low production means he won’t cost too much, but too good to cost very little. Throwing 13-15 mil at the guy per season for 4 years is what I’d easily do. He’s burried below Murray, Gary Harris, Monta Moriss, Barton in the rotation, but the kid will imo be better than any of them in a couple of years, that’s how high I’m on him. Might give us that 3rd star from the SG position if we take the risk. Wonder if he caught anybody else’s eye here?
Liked him going back to his FL state days....came out probably too soon for the situation and/or team he ended up on that might stunt his 2nd contract? One could argue it also gave him time to develop & not flame out....but pretty confident that he ends up somewhere else next year in much larger role & in discussions for 'Most improved'.

He to me is exactly the type of wings that Rosas is looking for...plays D...can hit a 3...& secondary play maker some. Maybe not star, but definitely championship worthy rotation guy...I feel.

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Watched him in the playoffs last year and he is really bad on defense. Lost off the ball and despite the athleticism bad on the ball. He's an off the bench scorer.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#54 » by Dewey » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:22 pm

DaKidKG wrote:I do not envy the position that Rosas is in. It's becoming apparent that this team does not bring sustainable and consistent energy. Look at the performances immediately after the Jimmy Butler trade last year, and the first ~15 games of this season. When they're trying to send a message, they play like a playoff team. After a while though, the momentum wears off and we're back to playing lackluster low effort basketball (defense is about effort!).

Rosas can talk about changing the culture of this team and making it more analytically oriented. That is the right approach but I don't know how you can make our two best players change their stripes. When your two best players are inconsistent with their effort, I don't think you have any chance of winning a championship because the playoffs are a grind.

Hate to say it, but I'm teetering closer and closer to thinking we need to blow it up and rebuild.

Upfront I agree ... the million$$ question is: "If we added a #1 to go with KAT #2 and Wiggins #3, would that be enough?" I dont know we could pull that off without getting flat out lucky in draft somehow, but if so, are KAT and Wiggins legit #2 and #3 guys?

IMO we'd have to move Dieng and Teague, and eventually, KAT and/or Wiggins to get a #1 guy ... I'm starting to think Rosas is merely auditioning the roster player by player to gauge cheap pieces to keep around that #1 guy.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#55 » by Calinks » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:38 pm

I think KAT has was it takes to win, he has weaknesses but no player is perfect. Wiggins I'm less confident about, I still think she should be moved if we can get something.

If KAT was surrounded by good teammates he would be fine. Team play is contagious, when a handful of players are playing like crap its easier for the rest of the team to fall into a funk. If KAT had teammates that were playing hard, collective good defense, it would elevate his efforts as well.

Put it like this, if he got magically traded to the Heat or some other good team, I think a lot of the negatives about h is game would be diminished. Even on our team to start the season everyone was talking about how he has stepped up. I'm sure he was playing better defense there but the team as a whole was probably playing a lot better too.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#56 » by Klomp » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:52 pm

I think KAT's "issues" have less to do with his physical and mental makeup and more to do with him being a big man in what's increasingly becoming a perimeter-oriented league.

And I'm not saying we need to take small-ball to yet another extreme. I'm saying maybe there's something to the fact that maybe big men don't win without a stud perimeter option on the team as well. Maybe it's smarter to allocate assets more toward the perimeter. And before I get Anthony Davis shoved down my throat, would he be having this kind of year without playing alongside LeBron? Unlikely.
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Re: The 

Post#57 » by old school 34 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:35 am

SmokeyPaw wrote:
old school 34 wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:I want Malik Beasley. Too low minutes means low production means he won’t cost too much, but too good to cost very little. Throwing 13-15 mil at the guy per season for 4 years is what I’d easily do. He’s burried below Murray, Gary Harris, Monta Moriss, Barton in the rotation, but the kid will imo be better than any of them in a couple of years, that’s how high I’m on him. Might give us that 3rd star from the SG position if we take the risk. Wonder if he caught anybody else’s eye here?
Liked him going back to his FL state days....came out probably too soon for the situation and/or team he ended up on that might stunt his 2nd contract? One could argue it also gave him time to develop & not flame out....but pretty confident that he ends up somewhere else next year in much larger role & in discussions for 'Most improved'.

He to me is exactly the type of wings that Rosas is looking for...plays D...can hit a 3...& secondary play maker some. Maybe not star, but definitely championship worthy rotation guy...I feel.

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Watched him in the playoffs last year and he is really bad on defense. Lost off the ball and despite the athleticism bad on the ball. He's an off the bench scorer.
Maybe come playoff time...his defense may not have cut it? He was good defensively as a freshman his one year & I'm sure he's gotten better as he wasn't quite ready to come out when he did (like he did offensively) & when I've watched...he's done well defensively but regular season.

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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#58 » by Calinks » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:18 pm

Forget the roster we need better fans!

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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#59 » by Foye » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:43 pm

DaKidKG wrote:I do not envy the position that Rosas is in. It's becoming apparent that this team does not bring sustainable and consistent energy. Look at the performances immediately after the Jimmy Butler trade last year, and the first ~15 games of this season. When they're trying to send a message, they play like a playoff team. After a while though, the momentum wears off and we're back to playing lackluster low effort basketball (defense is about effort!).

Rosas can talk about changing the culture of this team and making it more analytically oriented. That is the right approach but I don't know how you can make our two best players change their stripes. When your two best players are inconsistent with their effort, I don't think you have any chance of winning a championship because the playoffs are a grind.

Hate to say it, but I'm teetering closer and closer to thinking we need to blow it up and rebuild.


Good thing some of you guys are now starting to realize what I said prior to the season and received a sh0tstorm for.

We need to blow it up. This team is going nowhere with the current group of players and there are no assets for the future either.

Deal everyone that still has value around the league for future assets and then just suck until we have a talented group.

The Butler fiasco is where the window for this team to make some noise ended. Ever since then we are getting worse. With Markkanen and LaVine this team might be decent in the future...but without them...no chance.

Even since last season, we decided not to bring back decent players like Derrick Rose. What do you expect? That we magically improve by signing D-League and minimum talent because of making a team bonding trip to the Bahamas? Not gonna happen.

If you exclude KAT from the current roster, talent-wise we are rock bottom in the league. Its that bad and about time each and everyone here realizes that.

And the worst thing...we have a talented guy like Naz Reid and burry him at the end of the bench without any minutes in favour of scrubs like Dieng or Vonleh.

This whole franchise has no clue what they are doing. If this was a regular business, they would have filed bankruptcy more than a decade ago.
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Re: The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020 

Post#60 » by Calinks » Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:43 am

Klomp wrote:I think KAT's "issues" have less to do with his physical and mental makeup and more to do with him being a big man in what's increasingly becoming a perimeter-oriented league.

And I'm not saying we need to take small-ball to yet another extreme. I'm saying maybe there's something to the fact that maybe big men don't win without a stud perimeter option on the team as well. Maybe it's smarter to allocate assets more toward the perimeter. And before I get Anthony Davis shoved down my throat, would he be having this kind of year without playing alongside LeBron? Unlikely.

I agree with this. Firm believer that the game is geared in favor of perimeter players and we need to get one as our main option.Whch is why I get the Russell appeal but I don't know if he's that guy.
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