WOJ: Robert Covington traded for Evan Turner, Malik Beasley, Juancho Hernangómez, and Brooklyn’s First Round Draft Pick

[bigdavid]

I am a Tuner Fan. Fo;;owed him since he was drafted the sixers. He is older but still a good player. If you keep him I think he will be a help at pt. guard. Good passer decent rebounder and finds open players.

[TunaFish]

The production drop for both Beasley and Hernangomez was because of Michael Porter, Jr. Both Beasley and Hernangomez have been starters at times due to injuries and both have played well when they were starters. You picked up a lot of 3 point shooting here.

Roco and Napier were not worse shooters than those two. KBD shooting was also coming along. Don't think is about that.

I think once you see Beasley and Hernangomez you may understand otherwise. They are the definition of an outside spot up shooter. They need an opportunity and this is the perfect situation for them to blossom. I have seen Napier get hot with the Nets and he may be the best shooter of the guys sent back but I would suggest that he or Diop is not on the level of either Beasley or Hernangomez despite stats.

I am wondering if my point is starting to get through?

[Killboard]

Roco and Napier were not worse shooters than those two. KBD shooting was also coming along. Don't think is about that.

I think once you see Beasley and Hernangomez you may understand otherwise. They are the definition of an outside spot up shooter. They need an opportunity and this is the perfect situation for them to blossom. I have seen Napier get hot with the Nets and he may be the best shooter of the guys sent back but I would suggest that he or Diop is not on the level of either Beasley or Hernangomez despite stats.

I am wondering if my point is starting to get through?

I was aware Beasley is a better pure shooter than Roco, but the difference is not as big as spot up shooters. Roco made 6 3's in two games this season and Napier made 4 3's in 3 three games. Even Keita made 4 in a game. I stand by my point the wolves didn't got much better shooting 3's with the 4 team trade.

I like the game from the both Denver guys, but my early opinion was the trade was not worth it. Still, when the move for D'angelo was made all fall into place. That's was the reason why we traded Roco and I feel a lot better now. Russell and Spellman are a lot better than Wiggins and Vonleh/Bell. Even James Johnson is better than G specially in perimeter skills to find open shooters.

[The Rebel]

I don't remember him at KY, so here are some pre-draft thoughts on Vanderbilt. Doesn't appear to fit the "shooter" mold for the "system." But high-energy rebounder and switchable defender certainly could help. Looks like a more athletic, but worse shooter, than KBD?

NBA Comparison: Rondae Hollis-Jefferson

Strengths: Is the most dominant rebounder in his draft class, pulling down 25% of all available rebounds during his brief career at Kentucky … Averaged 18.5 rebounds per 40 minutes in college … Handles the ball extremely well for a player his size (6-9, 218 pounds) … Passes the ball very well, is able to thread the needle as well as make the easy pass … Has very good court vision, sees all 9 other players at all times … Plays with a lot of intensity and passion, motor is not an issue … Is capable of impacting a game even without taking a shot … Can defend multiple positions, is able to rotate quickly and can make long closeouts to take away jump shots … Has a 7’1" wingspan and 6.34% body fat … Vertical jump was measured at 39.5” at Kentucky’s pro day (though many of the measurements seemed inflated) … Possesses good strength and his upper body is NBA ready …

Weaknesses: The biggest concern with with Vanderbilt is his inability to stay healthy. Struggled with foot injuries throughout his high school … Has a history of ankle and leg injuries which limited him to only 14 games during his collegiate career … Has been hesitant to play through any kind of pain, questions in regard to his toughness … Shot mechanics are not broken, but need to be refined to improve his jumper … Struggles to score from any of the three levels consistently … Only shot 63% from the free throw line at Kentucky and 42.6% from the field … Will occasionally try to force a pass into traffic … Conditioning is an issue, although part of that is due to time missed due to injury … Can play a little out of control early in games as he looks to find a rhythm. Legs are very thin, likely a factor in his leg injuries … Struggled mightily as a scorer …


https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jarred-vanderbilt/

Vanderbilt is an unkonwn really, at one point he was a projected lottery pick while in his senior year of high school, but due to injuries never showed much in college. He missed most of last year finally getting healthy in March and only played a few games in the Gleague and a few spot minutes for the Nuggets.

He seems to be working on an outside shot in the Gleague this year, and he was one of our better players in summer league.

He has good handles for PF, his passing and ability to create for others is really good for a young PF, and his defense is great against perimeter forwards but he struggles against true bigs. His Jumpshot is ugly, so I would not count on him ever getting a dependable one.

There are also rumors that he does not want to work as hard as he should, although part of that could be that he was buried behind 3 other guys on the roster and has no positional versatility so he knew he was not getting a chance in Denver this year.

[minimus]

Vanderbilt is an unkonwn really, at one point he was a projected lottery pick while in his senior year of high school, but due to injuries never showed much in college. He missed most of last year finally getting healthy in March and only played a few games in the Gleague and a few spot minutes for the Nuggets.

He seems to be working on an outside shot in the Gleague this year, and he was one of our better players in summer league.

He has good handles for PF, his passing and ability to create for others is really good for a young PF, and his defense is great against perimeter forwards but he struggles against true bigs. His Jumpshot is ugly, so I would not count on him ever getting a dependable one.

There are also rumors that he does not want to work as hard as he should, although part of that could be that he was buried behind 3 other guys on the roster and has no positional versatility so he knew he was not getting a chance in Denver this year.

His story reminds me Caris LeVert story: scary injuries, many concerns, late NBA blossom. LeVert is 25yo now, Vanderbilt is 20yo. So I'd be happy if we get another solid player when he is 23yo. I.e. two years from now. I am thinking about similar to Siakam timeline.

[The Rebel]

Vanderbilt is an unkonwn really, at one point he was a projected lottery pick while in his senior year of high school, but due to injuries never showed much in college. He missed most of last year finally getting healthy in March and only played a few games in the Gleague and a few spot minutes for the Nuggets.

He seems to be working on an outside shot in the Gleague this year, and he was one of our better players in summer league.

He has good handles for PF, his passing and ability to create for others is really good for a young PF, and his defense is great against perimeter forwards but he struggles against true bigs. His Jumpshot is ugly, so I would not count on him ever getting a dependable one.

There are also rumors that he does not want to work as hard as he should, although part of that could be that he was buried behind 3 other guys on the roster and has no positional versatility so he knew he was not getting a chance in Denver this year.

His story reminds me Caris LeVert story: scary injuries, many concerns, late NBA blossom. LeVert is 25yo now, Vanderbilt is 20yo. So I'd be happy if we get another solid player when he is 23yo. I.e. two years from now. I am thinking about similar to Siakam timeline.

He very well could be a good player in the future, as I said he is really an unknown for most of us.

Malone raved about his work ethic and than a couple of months ago rumors started that he was not working as hard as they thought he should, so to me it sounds like he was frustrated, which honestly who wouldn't be? We brought in 2 PFs last summer in Cancar and of course Grant along with the development of MPJ pushing Juancho and Craig into PF occasionally, meaning that Vanderbilt was never going to get minutes here.

I have never been a huge Vanderbilt stan, but there are many on our board that love the guy from the research they have done. I hope that he proves he is a solid rotation guy in the NBA now that he is not so buried. People do not understand that we really had a huge log jam at SG,SF, and PF. while all the Denver fans know we lost a lot of talent and downgraded across the board for a late 1st, we all know that the guys we traded were never going to get the chance to show what they could do here.

[Rookie-Mistake]

Evan Turner update? I've looked everywhere and cannot find anything...


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[Jedzz]

I think once you see Beasley and Hernangomez you may understand otherwise. They are the definition of an outside spot up shooter. They need an opportunity and this is the perfect situation for them to blossom. I have seen Napier get hot with the Nets and he may be the best shooter of the guys sent back but I would suggest that he or Diop is not on the level of either Beasley or Hernangomez despite stats.

I am wondering if my point is starting to get through?

I was aware Beasley is a better pure shooter than Roco, but the difference is not as big as spot up shooters. Roco made 6 3's in two games this season and Napier made 4 3's in 3 three games. Even Keita made 4 in a game. I stand by my point the wolves didn't got much better shooting 3's with the 4 team trade.

I like the game from the both Denver guys, but my early opinion was the trade was not worth it. Still, when the move for D'angelo was made all fall into place. That's was the reason why we traded Roco and I feel a lot better now. Russell and Spellman are a lot better than Wiggins and Vonleh/Bell. Even James Johnson is better than G specially in perimeter skills to find open shooters.

Probably should just admit Tuna was spot on correct.

[Killboard]

I am wondering if my point is starting to get through?

I was aware Beasley is a better pure shooter than Roco, but the difference is not as big as spot up shooters. Roco made 6 3's in two games this season and Napier made 4 3's in 3 three games. Even Keita made 4 in a game. I stand by my point the wolves didn't got much better shooting 3's with the 4 team trade.

I like the game from the both Denver guys, but my early opinion was the trade was not worth it. Still, when the move for D'angelo was made all fall into place. That's was the reason why we traded Roco and I feel a lot better now. Russell and Spellman are a lot better than Wiggins and Vonleh/Bell. Even James Johnson is better than G specially in perimeter skills to find open shooters.

Probably should just admit Tuna was spot on correct.

In this season Roco is shooting 10.6 3PA per36 @.344%.
Beasley is at 11.3 3PA per36 @.376%.

That's an improvement but is not as big as you would think watching Beasley get hot with the wolves. Still he has took 75 3's in 8 games. The sample should be 10 times as big to consider it stable. Will be interesting how they distribute those shots once Towns plays again.

Juancho has been ripping it from distance too.
5.8 3pa per36 @.486%. Keita was 5.2 3pa per36 @.330 with the Wolves this season.
I don't think Juancho stint is sustainable but obviouly is really good to see.

Still Dlo over Teague is the biggest influx of 3PA and is the most likely to be sustainable.

[shangrila]

I was aware Beasley is a better pure shooter than Roco, but the difference is not as big as spot up shooters. Roco made 6 3's in two games this season and Napier made 4 3's in 3 three games. Even Keita made 4 in a game. I stand by my point the wolves didn't got much better shooting 3's with the 4 team trade.

I like the game from the both Denver guys, but my early opinion was the trade was not worth it. Still, when the move for D'angelo was made all fall into place. That's was the reason why we traded Roco and I feel a lot better now. Russell and Spellman are a lot better than Wiggins and Vonleh/Bell. Even James Johnson is better than G specially in perimeter skills to find open shooters.

Probably should just admit Tuna was spot on correct.

In this season Roco is shooting 10.6 3PA per36 @.344%.
Beasley is at 11.3 3PA per36 @.376%.

That's an improvement but is not as big as you would think watching Beasley get hot with the wolves. Still he has took 75 3's in 8 games. The sample should be 10 times as big to consider it stable. Will be interesting how they distribute those shots once Towns plays again.

Juancho has been ripping it from distance too.
5.8 3pa per36 @.486%. Keita was 5.2 3pa per36 @.330 with the Wolves this season.
I don't think Juancho stint is sustainable but obviouly is really good to see.

Still Dlo over Teague is the biggest influx of 3PA and is the most likely to be sustainable.

So your numbers are wrong. Your attempts were per 100 possessions, not per36.

I'm also not sure why you're using his season numbers. When he's with us he's at 10.1 3pa at a 41% clip. Small sample size, sure, but it's a completely different situation he's in so it's more realistic to believe this is the norm, especially when he's shown he can put up these numbers when starting before.

[Killboard]

Probably should just admit Tuna was spot on correct.

In this season Roco is shooting 10.6 3PA per36 @.344%.
Beasley is at 11.3 3PA per36 @.376%.

That's an improvement but is not as big as you would think watching Beasley get hot with the wolves. Still he has took 75 3's in 8 games. The sample should be 10 times as big to consider it stable. Will be interesting how they distribute those shots once Towns plays again.

Juancho has been ripping it from distance too.
5.8 3pa per36 @.486%. Keita was 5.2 3pa per36 @.330 with the Wolves this season.
I don't think Juancho stint is sustainable but obviouly is really good to see.

Still Dlo over Teague is the biggest influx of 3PA and is the most likely to be sustainable.

So your numbers are wrong. Your attempts were per 100 possessions, not per36.

I'm also not sure why you're using his season numbers. When he's with us he's at 10.1 3pa at a 41% clip. Small sample size, sure, but it's a completely different situation he's in so it's more realistic to believe this is the norm, especially when he's shown he can put up these numbers when starting before.

I used per100 in the Roco/Beasley comparison (by mistake) then Per36 with Juancho/KBD. Wasn't trying to make my point more valid since the argument is the same. The biggest influx of 3PA has come from the PG position which also happens to be the most online with career % for which is the most likely to continue.

I would love to use the 9 game stint % but I respect variance a lot more than you it seems.

[shangrila]

In this season Roco is shooting 10.6 3PA per36 @.344%.
Beasley is at 11.3 3PA per36 @.376%.

That's an improvement but is not as big as you would think watching Beasley get hot with the wolves. Still he has took 75 3's in 8 games. The sample should be 10 times as big to consider it stable. Will be interesting how they distribute those shots once Towns plays again.

Juancho has been ripping it from distance too.
5.8 3pa per36 @.486%. Keita was 5.2 3pa per36 @.330 with the Wolves this season.
I don't think Juancho stint is sustainable but obviouly is really good to see.

Still Dlo over Teague is the biggest influx of 3PA and is the most likely to be sustainable.

So your numbers are wrong. Your attempts were per 100 possessions, not per36.

I'm also not sure why you're using his season numbers. When he's with us he's at 10.1 3pa at a 41% clip. Small sample size, sure, but it's a completely different situation he's in so it's more realistic to believe this is the norm, especially when he's shown he can put up these numbers when starting before.

I used per100 in the Roco/Beasley comparison (by mistake) then Per36 with Juancho/KBD. Wasn't trying to make my point more valid since the argument is the same. The biggest influx of 3PA has come from the PG position which also happens to be the most online with career % for which is the most likely to continue.

I would love to use the 9 game stint % but I respect variance a lot more than you it seems.

I respect variance. I also respect context. You can't sit there and act like the role Beasley had in Denver is anything close to the one he has in Minnesota. You want to withhold judgement? Fine, perfectly understandable. But you're not doing that, are you? You're attempting to argue that we didn't really improve our shooting when the numbers clearly show that we have so far.

[Jedzz]

Comparing Beasleys impact on 3s and finishing in the paint, and overall better effort and IQ play should be fairly easy to eyeball over this many games compared to what we got from the many players attempting that role lately. Okogie, Wiggins, Culver. Wiggins could occasionally get hot but we know how often that was. Normally it was just really high volume and it varied from 12% to 40 even in this season. The other two don't even deserve comparison as a 2 guard yet in regard to shooting.

Dieng's 3pt shooting was a development as of this season as far as I'm aware. So that's only roughly half a season. He could just as easily revert back to previous levels. I saw that he missed all 4 attempts just the other day. Remember Rose having two ogreat months of better 3pt shooting and then reverting?

Roco's actual use in this new system made his streaky 3s negligible, that is until that streak of games were the team focused on him with a big red For Sale sign by funneling much of the offense through him.

[Killboard]

So your numbers are wrong. Your attempts were per 100 possessions, not per36.

I'm also not sure why you're using his season numbers. When he's with us he's at 10.1 3pa at a 41% clip. Small sample size, sure, but it's a completely different situation he's in so it's more realistic to believe this is the norm, especially when he's shown he can put up these numbers when starting before.

I used per100 in the Roco/Beasley comparison (by mistake) then Per36 with Juancho/KBD. Wasn't trying to make my point more valid since the argument is the same. The biggest influx of 3PA has come from the PG position which also happens to be the most online with career % for which is the most likely to continue.

I would love to use the 9 game stint % but I respect variance a lot more than you it seems.

I respect variance. I also respect context. You can't sit there and act like the role Beasley had in Denver is anything close to the one he has in Minnesota. You want to withhold judgement? Fine, perfectly understandable. But you're not doing that, are you? You're attempting to argue that we didn't really improve our shooting when the numbers clearly show that we have so far.

I think his role has changed recieving more minutes and the green light. The increase in attemps should not be compared with his role in Denver but with the player that went out in that specific trade, Robert Covington.

Per36 Beasley is shooting 0.3 more 3's than Roco. And that is with Towns out, for which he arguably has had more shots.
So the amount of 3's the Wolves take wasn't changed as much with the pieces in the 4 team trade which was my point.
Roco, KBD and Napier went out, Beasley, Juancho and Vanderbilt came in. Those were the pieces involved in that trade.

If you think Beasley role will change his efficency in 3pt shooting (which is a clearly jump up to this point from the .346 Roco had here vs the .412 Beasley has with the Wolves) then is when I say you aren't respecting variance as much as I do. When players go up in volume they tend to go down in efficeny and not the other way around.

Usually the sample size to stabilize the accuracy is 700 3's. Malik has took 85 so far.

[shangrila]

I think his role has changed recieving more minutes and the green light. The increase in attemps should not be compared with his role in Denver but with the player that went out in that specific trade, Robert Covington.

Per36 Beasley is shooting 0.3 more 3's than Roco. And that is with Towns out, for which he arguably has had more shots.
So the amount of 3's the Wolves take wasn't changed as much with the pieces in the 4 team trade which was my point.
Roco, KBD and Napier went out, Beasley, Juancho and Vanderbilt came in. Those were the pieces involved in that trade.

This is where you lose me. per36 ON THE WOLVES Beasley is shooting 2 more per game than Covington was while he was here. What is the point of comparing their seasonal numbers at this point? You can argue KAT is out, sure. I could argue we didn't have Russell during Covington's time either.

If you think Beasley role will change his efficency in 3pt shooting (which is a clearly jump up to this point from the .346 Roco had here vs the .412 Beasley has with the Wolves) then is when I say you aren't respecting variance as much as I do. When players go up in volume they tend to go down in efficeny and not the other way around.

Except there's enough evidence to suggest this is true. His career splits show he only shots below 40% from 3 between 10-19mpg, so that's 151 of his 215 games that he's shown elite shooting. Of the 28 games he's started his 3pt% is nearly 46%.

Small sample size compared to Covington? Sure, but this is all we have to go on as it's his entire career.

Usually the sample size to stabilize the accuracy is 700 3's. Malik has took 85 so far.

Well he's taken 761 his entire career, so I guess you'd have to admit he's at least a 38% 3pt shooter (his career mark). Which, coincidentally, is better than Covington's 36% career mark (he's actually never had a season above 40%, surprisingly).

[Jedzz]

When players go up in volume they tend to go down in efficeny and not the other way around.

I agree with this but I'm having trouble seeing how that fits into your side of this. Maybe I've been reading this convo all wrong or something.

But whatever this was once about, all I know is Beasley increasing his volume and only getting more accurate Is one heck of a positive feather for him and may very well have been an expectation/vision from Rosas and Crew that they wanted to risk all this for and give him the chance here to find out.

[Killboard]

I think his role has changed recieving more minutes and the green light. The increase in attemps should not be compared with his role in Denver but with the player that went out in that specific trade, Robert Covington.

Per36 Beasley is shooting 0.3 more 3's than Roco. And that is with Towns out, for which he arguably has had more shots.
So the amount of 3's the Wolves take wasn't changed as much with the pieces in the 4 team trade which was my point.
Roco, KBD and Napier went out, Beasley, Juancho and Vanderbilt came in. Those were the pieces involved in that trade.

This is where you lose me. per36 ON THE WOLVES Beasley is shooting 2 more per game than Covington was while he was here. What is the point of comparing their seasonal numbers at this point? You can argue KAT is out, sure. I could argue we didn't have Russell during Covington's time either.

If you think Beasley role will change his efficency in 3pt shooting (which is a clearly jump up to this point from the .346 Roco had here vs the .412 Beasley has with the Wolves) then is when I say you aren't respecting variance as much as I do. When players go up in volume they tend to go down in efficeny and not the other way around.

Except there's enough evidence to suggest this is true. His career splits show he only shots below 40% from 3 between 10-19mpg, so that's 151 of his 215 games that he's shown elite shooting. Of the 28 games he's started his 3pt% is nearly 46%.

Small sample size compared to Covington? Sure, but this is all we have to go on as it's his entire career.

Usually the sample size to stabilize the accuracy is 700 3's. Malik has took 85 so far.

Well he's taken 761 his entire career, so I guess you'd have to admit he's at least a 38% 3pt shooter (his career mark). Which, coincidentally, is better than Covington's 36% career mark (he's actually never had a season above 40%, surprisingly).

I never doubted Beasley is a better shooter than Covington. Which I was arguing was the improvement wasn't that big in that department between those 2 players.

The wolves traded for a player that shoots 2% better to play a role where he takes 2 more 3's per36 (at least without Kat's shots) than one of the top defenders in the league. He also is likely to command more money on his new contract. I'm not buying that was worth if wasn't because we traded for Dlo the day next and the incoming pick will mitigate the loss of our own.

The reason why we are taking more 3's is not only about the deal with Denver. Trading JJ for Dieng, playing Dlo over Teague and playing Naz over Bell/Vonleh all improved the volume in 3 points shots considerably more than playing Beasely over Covington, which was the point in this discussion.

[Maf]

Sad to see them gone but I am glad our guys are balling for you.

[minimus]

The team that traded Wiggins has a vision coming into focus even in the absence of Karl-Anthony Towns: streams of D'Angelo Russell-Towns pick-and-rolls surrounded by shooting, with other good Towns stuff mixed in -- post-ups, pump-and-go drives, and canny passes from the elbow as Russell plays hide-and-seek off the ball.

Malik Beasley is letting fly from everywhere, and looks like a fixture on the wing. Jarrett Culver, surging again, projects as a nice two-way complement there. Josh Okogie offers fierce competition for wing minutes.

Juan Hernangomez is 24-of-53 from deep in 11 games as Minnesota's starting stretch power forward after hitting 54 triples combined his past two seasons in Denver -- and no more than 66 in any season. Even so, Minnesota's biggest long-term need is finding a better frontcourt partner for Towns.

The Wolves have a long way to go. They will have trouble crafting a competent defense around Towns and Russell, and it's tough to crack the West playoff race without one. (Side note: Will all 15 teams in the West enter next season with at least semi-legitimate playoff hopes?)

But Minnesota had no organizing principle before February. At least it has that now.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28842662/ten-things-like-including-la-clippers-nba-title-favorites