Game 51: Minnesota Timberwolves (15-35) vs. Los Angeles Clippers (36-15) - 8:00 PM ET

[Mamba4Goat]

I went to the Pacers game a handful of weeks back and it was boring. The whole team lacked energy and it was just underwhelming. This team was the complete opposite of that which is awesome. Juancho and JJ are going to be huge leadership positives.

[Klomp]

You know, the next Track the Pack episode is gonna be wild!

[Nick K]

I do not know where you got the JJ Redick or Lou Williams idea about Beasley? last night sounds like the way he always plays. He is scorer 1st but overall he has talent as an all around player. While his defensive stats look bad, people have to remember that both Harris and Craig are good enough defenders to be all defensive teams guys, while Beasley is about average on defense. Malone is very firmly a defense 1st coach, which hurt Beasley's ability to get minutes, but most Nuggets fans were arguing about whether he should have been starting over Harris to start the season.

Probably had more to do with his reputation than reality, but in fairness no one around the league has ever really touted him as a star or a future star. That's all I was really saying....

Beasley was a projected mid lotto pick that broke his leg and couldn't work out. He also reportedly screwed up the interviews because he raved so much about his love of basketball and winning that teams thought he was acting with his parents being well known actors. He was really the 1st of the Denver projects, he was drafted with the plan to spend his rookie year rehabbing, missing half of his rookie season. When he finally got on the court he showed a couple of flashes but looking back was not nearly as ready to come back as he should have been.

His 2nd year his defense sucked and was inconsistent, so he got very limited minutes. Those good nights though, they got Nuggets fans talking. You can go back and read threads from 2018.

Year 3 he finally broke into the rotation, his defense was better, but he was still inconsistent until the injuries really hit, and suddenly he was our break out star. Go look at threads from the end of last season, there were fans of other teams as well as Nuggets fans who wanted to see Harris benched for him, many wanted Harris traded last summer.

This year he came into the season playing pretty well, his defense had improved to at least average and he was looking good. Then Malone started messing with rotations, trying to get Craig, Juancho, MPJ, and Beasley minutes at SG and SF. All the sudden Beasley was off some nights, and not just his shot but everything was off. He lost his spot in the rotation for a couple of weeks, and then he started straightening out and has been playing okay since.

For that matter Juancho is another interesting story, and is very underrated by those who do not pay attention. As a rookie Juancho was a positive defender and 40% 3 point shooter once he finally got a chance about half way through the season, by the end of the season he was firmly in the rotation and pushing Gallo and Chandler for minutes.

Year 2 he got hurt, and when he got back he struggled badly.

Year 3 he was our starter through training camp. He was playing great, then he got mono at the start of the season. Finally when he was coming back he had a relapse and was out another 5 weeks. By the time he got back he had lost a ton of weight and looked terrible. He was not all that great when he got back.

Then last summer at the world games I have seen some argue that Juancho was the 3rd best player in the tournament. HE was super active and making plays on both ends for the Spanish Team.

This year he was finally healthy, but Barton was given the starting SF job and Juancho added to the minutes crunch. He has obviously lost his confidence, his attempts dropped and his percentage dropped badly.

So the question that many Nuggets fans have is how good would he be if he got steady minutes and his confidence back? There were guys connected to the team that said in radio interviews that the team felt Juancho was going to be the best out of Beasley, Juancho, and Jamal Murray. I think it was some hyperbole, but Juancho is the biggest question mark for many of us.

If the media ever bothered to cover the Nuggets people would realize how good they really are. As is nobody watches them and very few understand how good even our bench guys are. Beasley and Juancho couldn't get minutes in Denver and started and played well for you guys yesterday. Jokic is amazing but we also have some really good players who are forced off the bench. Hell Jerami Grant was the starter for a playoff team last year, and this year he is a backup in Denver. Plumlee was a starter for a playoff team and is our backup C. Our guards are not lucky enough to be known since they were all drafted and developed by the Nuggets. The difference between 2-8 on our roster is not nearly as big as the difference for most teams 2-4 guys.

Thanks. Really good stuff. Puts much in perspective. Basically, we've increased our talent level substantially.

[Killboard]

Props to Rosas and Gupta. The roster makes so much sense now. It's nice to have 30 games before camp to have the chimsestry going from the go next season.
If we don't move up in the lotto we need to draft defensive prospects IMO or attach the picks to JJ for someone like Aaron Gordon or Isaac.

It would be a real treat if we actually get in a position here to where can “upgrade” vs “whattya got-we need it”...

I know we have eyes on 2-3 players in Europe, so between that and the draft alone, we should still have some productive moves in the summmer

I sort of roll over in the grave reading this stuff already. Nothing personal. But Aaron Gordon? can you people stop? Just stop for a couple weeks and get to know this massive influx of players that may have everything the team needs. This name chasing on names like Gordon who has been truly nothing compared to some of the things I just watched last night, all of a sudden hair stands up on the back of my neck that I never knew I had. Gordon and his shooting skills just doesn't fit here at all.

This current collection of players just dropped a hammer on a playoff team built around Kawhi and PG. The same Kawhi and PG that each surpassed 40 pts in a Dec 13th game against the previous Wolves collective when the Clippers beat the Wolves 124-117. Back then, Kat put up 39 and Wiggins 34, even Teague 22. What was the problem back then? The problem was depth scoring and overall team defense. Last night, we saw depth and defense, and double digit scoring from at least 7 players. The Clips obviously didn't know what to expect, but none of us did either. We've been watching this team try to win games with two players for way too long.

JJ is a beast and a threat. You won't catch me in discussions supporting trades for names when he's involved. He's so much of what this team was always missing. He's what Towns needs on his team. That KG edge. I hate that he's already 32, but let's allow him to add grit to this team for as long as he can. Give this guy a reason to stay enganged and love it here, please. They need a full year of that kind of help. If I'm the one deciding he's staying over 20 mins/g here indefinitely unless he comes in baked on a day. I would probably just start him until he no longer can. But at least split time even with Juan.

Beasley and JJ can help make this a real team. Juan and others help. I hope they can build a very good group from what they have now and just start accumulating future picks while they develop from inside on what they now have. This currently feels like depth and options of a deep playoff team. Use it.

They didn't just win by 27pts. They scored 142. That's maybe the 3rd highest total in a win for Timberwolves ever and maybe the first against a good playoff team. That's how outrageous this win was. But I don't want to automatically look at it as entirely an outlier. Because these are real talented players Rosas and crew brought in to a scoring system, and it does matter who each player has next to them. It matters how much time you give a player in a game. If you give JJ only 12 minutes, you probably get a lot less and his career is loaded with lessor minute games. Same goes for Beasely who was stuck from bench. Here, playing more, this is something to be very positive about.

I don't expect McCanDo to go off every night like that. But I think it had a lot to do with the threat that the rest of the players were to Clippers, and apparently Mclaughlin can do a lot of things when he's got a little room to breath like this spacing created. That bodes well for him and Dlo moving forward. Who exactly are teams going to lock down on once they get to start seeing film on these guys together? This system filled with many viable NBA players is something else man.

You seem pretty pissed about a basketball opinion some random people on the internet said on a basketball forum. Better to get used.

I like JJ game. I claim signing him the last season we had capspace, before Taj was signed. He was a 3/4 tweener with perimeter skills, Thibs choosed otherwise. Next season he will be expiring and 33 years old. I would explore any possibility of flip him for a long term asset at the 3/4 who excel at defense.

And yes, the Clippers game was awesome. If those guys play that way every game of their lifes we can send Dlo to the Bahamas permanently. But Im long enough around tthe league to know that a core of KAT, DLo and Beasley will need two other guys who can make their life easier on defense.

Okogie and Culver are nice young players to have in the point of attack. Juancho and Vanderbilt are nice young players to defend the forward position. I still thinking Gordon potential is higher as a defensive presence and given the disapointing season Orlando had and the overload at the forward positions I would make them a call on draft day.

[minimus]

I like JJ game. I claim signing him the last season we had capspace, before Taj was signed. He was a 3/4 tweener with perimeter skills, Thibs choosed otherwise. Next season he will be expiring and 33 years old. I would explore any possibility of flip him for a long term asset at the 3/4 who excel at defense.

What if JJ declines his PO to sign a long term here, a new team-friendly deal? He can earn 16mil next year, let say, he declines his PO and signs for 36mil/3yr deals with last year team option?

I still thinking Gordon potential is higher as a defensive presence and given the disappointing season Orlando had and the overload at the forward positions I would make them a call the draft day.

Yeah, Aaron Gordon is being misused in ORL, you can look at his shooting numbers, his per-game stats and say he is garbage. But playing with two of Bamba, Vuc, Birch, Isaac, Aminu, is not going to help his shooting efficiency. But at the moment I kind of value JJ presence higher than Gordon (especially considering additional investments such as FRP in trade). JJ has more experience which is exactly what we need.

[Killboard]

I like JJ game. I claim signing him the last season we had capspace, before Taj was signed. He was a 3/4 tweener with perimeter skills, Thibs choosed otherwise. Next season he will be expiring and 33 years old. I would explore any possibility of flip him for a long term asset at the 3/4 who excel at defense.

What if JJ declines his PO to sign a long term here, a new team-friendly deal? He can earn 16mil next year, let say, he declines his PO and signs for 36mil/3yr deals with last year team option?

I still thinking Gordon potential is higher as a defensive presence and given the disappointing season Orlando had and the overload at the forward positions I would make them a call the draft day.

Yeah, Aaron Gordon is being misused in ORL, you can look at his shooting numbers, his per-game stats and say he is garbage. But playing with two of Bamba, Vuc, Birch, Isaac, Aminu, is not going to help his shooting efficiency. But at the moment I kind of value JJ presence higher than Gordon (especially considering additional investments such as FRP in trade). JJ has more experience which is exactly what we need.

Johnson is a good player and a good fit, and while he brings value to win games this and next year, jumping on a defensive player that joins the timeline is the way to go IMO. Given we are going to lose the 2021 pick to the Warriors could be savy to trade one or both of next draft picks for a long term upgrade at both forward spots depending who is available when the Wolves clock start.

[Jedzz]

You seem pretty pissed about a basketball opinion some random people on the internet said on a basketball forum. Better to get used.

whatever. keep hunting Gordon and telling us we need more. While at the same time telling us Okogie and Culver are good enough.

Pissed? Constantly annoyed.

[Killboard]

You seem pretty pissed about a basketball opinion some random people on the internet said on a basketball forum. Better to get used.

whatever. keep hunting Gordon and telling us we need more. While at the same time telling us Okogie and Culver are good enough.

Pissed? Constantly annoyed.

Why I shouldn't do it? Because you are too annoyed to hear it? This is a basketball forum for basketball discussion. If you can't discuss about basketall topics without asking people to stop expressing their fundamented opinions this does not seem a place for you.

You are pretending James Johnson is a basketball God when he was a thrown in that the wolves FO acquired. Better to get used to trades with this front office. They wont hesitate to pull the trigger.

[Jedzz]

You seem pretty pissed about a basketball opinion some random people on the internet said on a basketball forum. Better to get used.

whatever. keep hunting Gordon and telling us we need more. While at the same time telling us Okogie and Culver are good enough.

Pissed? Constantly annoyed.

Why I shouldn't do it? Because you are too annoyed to hear it? This is a basketball forum for basketball discussion. If you can't discuss about basketall topics without asking people to stop expressing their fundamented opinions this does not seem a place for you.

You are pretending James Johnson is a basketball God when he was a thrown in that the wolves FO acquired. Better to get used to trades with this front office. They wont hesitate to pull the trigger.

Who says I have problems with trades? I do have problems with Aaron Gordon at 19-20 million.

I just want you to explain yourself a little if some of you are going to keep suggesting Gordon but at the same time telling us Culver and Okogie are good enough to keep around. Do you want to go back to a full team of players incapable of hitting a basket in the fourth quarter under pressure?

All three of them are questionable to bad shooters so far that I would look for trades for to find more shooters. But I can see reason in the argument that some believe Culver and Okogie are young enough to prove otherwise yet. Is Gordon to you? This is year six. He's on the Wiggins timeline and so far he's getting worse at shooting with age.

So instead of trying to claim I just don't want to do anything. Let's instead talk about what it is you are suggesting we do, as that is what I take issue with.

Johnson can shoot. Johnson has his own confidence. He can help with defense. He can playmake for others. Throw in baloney. I don't care if he was or wasn't - and you don't really know. He's a better basketball player than most of the Timberwolves I've been watching for years.

[Killboard]

whatever. keep hunting Gordon and telling us we need more. While at the same time telling us Okogie and Culver are good enough.

Pissed? Constantly annoyed.

Why I shouldn't do it? Because you are too annoyed to hear it? This is a basketball forum for basketball discussion. If you can't discuss about basketall topics without asking people to stop expressing their fundamented opinions this does not seem a place for you.

You are pretending James Johnson is a basketball God when he was a thrown in that the wolves FO acquired. Better to get used to trades with this front office. They wont hesitate to pull the trigger.

Who says I have problems with trades? I do have problems with Aaron Gordon at 19-20 million.

I just want you to explain yourself a little if some of you are going to keep suggesting Gordon but at the same time telling us Culver and Okogie are good enough to keep around. Do you want to go back to a full team of players incapable of hitting a basket in the fourth quarter under pressure?

All three of them are questionable to bad shooters so far that I would look for trades for to find more shooters. But I can see reason in the argument that some believe Culver and Okogie are young enough to prove otherwise yet. Is Gordon to you? This is year six. He's on the Wiggins timeline and so far he's getting worse at shooting with age.

So instead of trying to claim I just don't want to do anything. Let's instead talk about what it is you are suggesting we do, as that is what I take issue with.

Johnson can shoot. Johnson has his own confidence. He can help with defense. He can playmake for others. Throw in baloney. I don't care if he was or wasn't - and you don't really know. He's a better basketball player than most of the Timberwolves I've been watching for years.

Jonhson was under 30% the first 6 seasons of his career. His first season above 30% was as a 28 years old.
Since then he had 2 season at 30% and 2 seasons at 34%. His career average is at .309%.

Gordon is 24 years old and is a career .318% 3pt shooter. Such a big difference?

And yes, his actual contract is slight overpaid but not by much. He fits with the core moving forward. There are better players out there for sure. I love Johnathan Isaac for example. But Gordon trade value should not be as high. He and Isaac covered up Vucevic in a admirable way last season. With Aminu, Mamba and Birch, and Chuma Okeke coming back, the Magic is stacked in defensive oriented 4/5.

Here is an article about his defense:
https://www.nba.com/magic/news/gordon-defense-continues-be-outstanding-20181120

[Jedzz]

Why I shouldn't do it? Because you are too annoyed to hear it? This is a basketball forum for basketball discussion. If you can't discuss about basketall topics without asking people to stop expressing their fundamented opinions this does not seem a place for you.

You are pretending James Johnson is a basketball God when he was a thrown in that the wolves FO acquired. Better to get used to trades with this front office. They wont hesitate to pull the trigger.

Who says I have problems with trades? I do have problems with Aaron Gordon at 19-20 million.

I just want you to explain yourself a little if some of you are going to keep suggesting Gordon but at the same time telling us Culver and Okogie are good enough to keep around. Do you want to go back to a full team of players incapable of hitting a basket in the fourth quarter under pressure?

All three of them are questionable to bad shooters so far that I would look for trades for to find more shooters. But I can see reason in the argument that some believe Culver and Okogie are young enough to prove otherwise yet. Is Gordon to you? This is year six. He's on the Wiggins timeline and so far he's getting worse at shooting with age.

So instead of trying to claim I just don't want to do anything. Let's instead talk about what it is you are suggesting we do, as that is what I take issue with.

Johnson can shoot. Johnson has his own confidence. He can help with defense. He can playmake for others. Throw in baloney. I don't care if he was or wasn't - and you don't really know. He's a better basketball player than most of the Timberwolves I've been watching for years.

Jonhson was under 30% the first 6 seasons of his career. His first season above 30% was as a 28 years old.
Since then he had 2 season at 30% and 2 seasons at 34%. His career average is at .309%.

Gordon is 24 years old and is a career .318% 3pt shooter. Such a big difference?

And yes, his actual contract is slight overpaid but not by much. He fits with the core moving forward. There are better players out there for sure. I love Johnathan Isaac for example. But Gordon trade value should not be as high. He and Isaac covered up Vucevic in a admirable way last season. With Aminu, Mamba and Birch, and Chuma Okeke coming back, the Magic is stacked in defensive oriented 4/5.

Here is an article about his defense:
https://www.nba.com/magic/news/gordon-defense-continues-be-outstanding-20181120

If fitting with the core means a player has to be a bad shooter to fit than everything is broken. Because last I checked we are aiming for 47 threes a night. Some of you are just plain nuts over Gordon and I do not get it. You will seemingly attempt to talk yourself into this in the most amazing of ways.

.318 career numbers? I do not care. That number sucks as is. But that's not even him lately.

He's at .298 from 3 this year.

Two of six seasons he got over 30%. Four of six seasons he is below 30%. (yr1).271, (yr2).296, (yr3).288

So in year 3 he dropped. In year 6 he dropped again. It would be wholly different if he was at say 41% and then dropped to 37%. But these are numbers he's likely never reaching.

Fg % dropped to .422, TS% this year dropped to .499. He's supposed to be some athletic cutter than he should be finishing well at the net but he's dropped down to 30% of his FG coming from 0-3 ft and finishing% IN 60s. I should check if that is Wiggins-like or not.

He would already be replaced by other players there if not for his contract. That's how this stuff works for many teams.

[Mamba4Goat]

Having a guy that can drive/a "rim runner" doesn't necessarily hurt having shooters on the floor as it likely pulls a defender away from one of them.

[Jedzz]

Having a guy that can drive/a "rim runner" doesn't necessarily hurt having shooters on the floor as it likely pulls a defender away from one of them.

Rim runner huh

His TS% .499 and his finishing at the rim 0-3ft at 65-69%. Low rebounds for someone his "size/athletics", low FT% and Attempts (not drawing fouls), low 3FG, just an underperformer.


I'll take, James Johnson--> TS% of .730 and finishing around rim 0-3 at 80% for us. Last year he was 75%, now 80% for us. And from 3pt land so far for us...67% Dude is Dude.

Just do yourself a favor and enjoy James Johnson while we can. This is the perfect spot for his type of skills.

[minimus]

Having a guy that can drive/a "rim runner" doesn't necessarily hurt having shooters on the floor as it likely pulls a defender away from one of them.

Rim runner huh

His TS% .499 and his finishing at the rim 0-3ft at 65-69%. Low rebounds for someone his "size/athletics", low FT% and Attempts (not drawing fouls), low 3FG, just an underperformer.


I'll take, James Johnson--> TS% of .730 and finishing around rim 0-3 at 80% for us. Last year he was 75%, now 80% for us. And from 3pt land so far for us...67% Dude is Dude.

Just do yourself a favor and enjoy James Johnson while we can. This is the perfect spot for his type of skills.

Jedzz, as fan you show some strong love/hate attitude. You love JJ and Nowell. You hate Culver and Gordon. And I really appreciate your consistency.