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The Malik Beasley Thread

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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#61 » by Calinks » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:06 pm

Klomp wrote:
Calinks wrote:He's gonna get paid. That was my biggest worry with the deal, if he looks good in this system (which I think most good shooters will) he will get paid this summer. It's just been three games but I am pretty confident he will be a 18PPG or better scorer on this team for the rest of the season.

If his percentages remain high, a team will pay him. He's a 23 year elite shooting 2 guard. They are not easy to get, particularly ones as versatile as him, not that Beasely is very versatile but the 2 guard is a thin position IMO, and the little bit of driving and energy he brings gives him more value.

Think about it, there are not a lot of great SG's in the NBA. Beasley could crack top 15-10 in these last 30 games on numbers. That's valuable at 23 years old. Some team will be willing to give him a nice deal.

Honestly though, this was the best way to do it. With only 30 games left, there might not be the types of offers for him there could be had he gotten an opportunity like this before the season or even earlier than that. Had that happened, we may be talking contracts in the LaVine to Hield range.

I agree, not only that but we got the rights to match and maybe most of all, he gets to see what its like here, what role he would have here. We are auditioning to him just as he is to us. If he does look like a star here and has great success that gives him more incentive to want to stay with us as opposed to if we were just going after him in FA hoping the Nuggets or some other team doesn't match.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#62 » by jpatrick » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:33 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
jpatrick wrote:If no team gives him an offer acceptable to him, he can choose to sign the qualifying offer. However, most players that have not had a big payday, will go down that route.

Plus, by taking the QO, he’d only make 3.8m next year instead of the 10m if he signed a multi year deal. Hard to make up that money on a future contract unless he had a big year.

I think you meant will NOT go down that route.


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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#63 » by Killboard » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:59 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Killboard wrote:To match 15-18 he can't be just a spot up shooter with sligthly below average defense. He needs to create for himself and get to the rim. I suppose we will find that in the next 30 games.

I'm with you Killboard. People are getting carried away on the Beasley situation. Maybe over the rest of the year he can demonstrate himself worthy of a 15 of s s

I mean, he played 3 games and had a career high in 3's made the first game which was awesome. The other two had 43 points in 37 shots which is not. He went to the line 5 times in 3 games too.

Lose him after spending a late first on him isn't ideal, but this franchise has always done a poor job overvaluing their own players. Hopefully Rosas is different.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#64 » by Killboard » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:06 am

Klomp wrote:Beasley has been a bit like Gorgui in that he plays better the more minutes he plays.

In 18 starts last year (averaging 31 mpg), he averaged just under 16 ppg and shot 50% from 3-point range (on 6 attempts per game). Obviously that percentage won't hold, but remember he's practically doubled that volume in his 3 games here (11 attempts per game). Lower efficiency at 42%, but that's still crazy good at that volume.

10 players averaging eight 3PApg this season. Two of them are shooting 40%. Neither of them are guards (Davis Bertans, Duncan Robinson). The high-water mark for guards on crazy volume this season seems to be 39%: Lillard, Hield, Kemba (throw in LaVine, VanVleet, McCollum if you lower the threshold to seven 3PApg). Also keep in mind JJ Redick only has one season where he averaged over seven 3PApg (2018-19, 39.7%).

Beasley is putting up these types of shooting numbers at 23 years old. That youth combined with that type of shooting potential when he gets an opportunity, you're dreaming if you think he'll settle for $10 million in this current NBA landscape that is desperate for shooting.


You should use 3pa for 100 or 3pa per36 to assess frequency IMO. That's why I bringed up Abrines and Gary Trent Jr, who also have similar FT%, rebound and steals numbers in the linked list. If evidence say Beasley is an elite shooter, those guys are elite too.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#65 » by Killboard » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:11 am

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Why didn't Denver see him as an ELITE SG. They didn't offer one penny over $10 million and they were willing to let him go for chump change. They're the team that should know him best. Maybe they were just stupid. I'm hopeful, but he hasn't shown me anything yet. If he averages 18 PPG that doesn't impress me. Lots of mediocre players have averaged 18 or more on bad teams. He has to show me game before I would be OK with 15 million or more. Of course I have no say so in the matter. Best case scenario is he cools off the rest of the season. We sign him to a reasonable 4X$10 million contract and then he rocks out for the rest of the deal.

Denver never thought he wasn't good enough. For them, it was about if he had enough opportunity. He was playing behind guys already locked into big money deals, and the team is approaching the luxury tax. They likely would've lost him for nothing (Juancho too) had they not traded him, so they got what they could.


They also could have traded Harris or Barton for an expiring and use that cap on Beasley and decided not to do it.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#66 » by Jedzz » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:11 am

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Beasley has had a 3 game run with the Wolves scoring a decent amount of points and one game with a ridiculous 7 3s. He hasn't come close to demonstrating to me that he is worth a big contract. Not saying he can't do that over the rest of the season, but I'm in very much wait and see mode. Everything I have heard about him coming over is that he was quite good at driving the rim. I'm waiting to see him demonstrate that to be true. People are IMO way overreacting to a reasonably hot 3 game stretch.

He's shooting 42% on 3-pointers. That's not really outrageous for a very good 3-point shooter. If he was shooting 60% on 3s, then yeah I think you'd have a case that this is an unsustainable hot streak.

Wolves paid Teague 20/yr. while still paying Wiggins and Towns. Everyone let that sink in.

People hoping they can get Beasely to resign here at 12 are kidding themselves if he keeps shooting like this.

It was 4 years ago they gave Dieng 16/yr. 14/yr to 32 yr old Gibson in 2017. 29/yr 5yr deal to Wiggins just in 2018. If Beasely keeps his shooting going like this, and keeps attacking like an all heart competitor as a starter to finish this season there is no way he deserves less than 15-20, probably higher. Of course he's still got to prove it's not just a honeymoon act.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#67 » by younggunsmn » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:58 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:Beasley has been a bit like Gorgui in that he plays better the more minutes he plays.

In 18 starts last year (averaging 31 mpg), he averaged just under 16 ppg and shot 50% from 3-point range (on 6 attempts per game). Obviously that percentage won't hold, but remember he's practically doubled that volume in his 3 games here (11 attempts per game). Lower efficiency at 42%, but that's still crazy good at that volume.

10 players averaging eight 3PApg this season. Two of them are shooting 40%. Neither of them are guards (Davis Bertans, Duncan Robinson). The high-water mark for guards on crazy volume this season seems to be 39%: Lillard, Hield, Kemba (throw in LaVine, VanVleet, McCollum if you lower the threshold to seven 3PApg). Also keep in mind JJ Redick only has one season where he averaged over seven 3PApg (2018-19, 39.7%).

Beasley is putting up these types of shooting numbers at 23 years old. That youth combined with that type of shooting potential when he gets an opportunity, you're dreaming if you think he'll settle for $10 million in this current NBA landscape that is desperate for shooting.

If he maintains 42% on threes at 8 or more per game and isn't a total sieve on D I will be the first in line to say pay the man. However, we don't need to bid against ourselves for his services. If he's great the rest of the season not just scoring, but scoring efficiently and playing D we can offer him 15 mill a year. If he is only decent the rest of the year 10 million a year is fair. If those numbers aren't acceptable to him he can accept his best offer and we can match if we feel like it. Denver who should know him far better than we did wasn't willing to pay him more than $10 million a year and gave up his rights along with Hernangomez and Vanderbilt for a late first round draft pick. I'm hopeful about Beasley, but very far from convinced that he is anything special.


Denver was willing to offer him 10 million a year to be a rotation wing with minutes in the 20's.
The price point on that is going to be different than what you offer a starting 2 playing 32+ mins a night.
They have a lot of money tied up in Gary Harris and WIll Barton on the wing in addition to paying Jokic and Murray the max, along with a lot of depth whose contracts will be expiring.
The fact that they were willing to offer 4/40 says a lot about how they valued him, because that is a very smart front office willing to tie up 4/40 in a non-starter. Gary Harris is also always injured and his production has fallen off a cliff.
That they were willing to trade Beasley for a late 1st says that they didnt think 4/40 would get it done this summer, and with their salary concerns they couldnt afford to go beyond that range and still fill out the rest of the team.

This will a good summer to re-sign a RFA. Not many teams have cap room. But all it takes is one team.
12-15/year is the going rate for a league average wing, and if he does well 3/45 or 4/60 might be the cost.
It's only been 3 games, but he's shown more grit and defense than I'd thought, and more aggression taking it to the rack.
If he can keep shooting around 40% on 3's and show growth in the system while maintaining the energy and grit that he's shown so far, I'd feel comfortable paying him up to 15 mil/year.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#68 » by King Malta » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:21 am

Calinks wrote:He's gonna get paid. That was my biggest worry with the deal, if he looks good in this system (which I think most good shooters will) he will get paid this summer. It's just been three games but I am pretty confident he will be a 18PPG or better scorer on this team for the rest of the season.

If his percentages remain high, a team will pay him. He's a 23 year elite shooting 2 guard. They are not easy to get, particularly ones as versatile as him, not that Beasely is very versatile but the 2 guard is a thin position IMO, and the little bit of driving and energy he brings gives him more value.

Think about it, there are not a lot of great SG's in the NBA. Beasley could crack top 15-10 in these last 30 games on numbers. That's valuable at 23 years old. Some team will be willing to give him a nice deal.


It's a worry but if we end up paying an elite shooting two guard, is that really a bad thing?

Yes, we're all rightfully concerned about the cap space we're going to have moving forward, but if Beasley turns out to be a high level shooter at the 2 spot, then I'm happy to pay him to be honest.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#69 » by Calinks » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:03 am

King Malta wrote:
Calinks wrote:He's gonna get paid. That was my biggest worry with the deal, if he looks good in this system (which I think most good shooters will) he will get paid this summer. It's just been three games but I am pretty confident he will be a 18PPG or better scorer on this team for the rest of the season.

If his percentages remain high, a team will pay him. He's a 23 year elite shooting 2 guard. They are not easy to get, particularly ones as versatile as him, not that Beasely is very versatile but the 2 guard is a thin position IMO, and the little bit of driving and energy he brings gives him more value.

Think about it, there are not a lot of great SG's in the NBA. Beasley could crack top 15-10 in these last 30 games on numbers. That's valuable at 23 years old. Some team will be willing to give him a nice deal.


It's a worry but if we end up paying an elite shooting two guard, is that really a bad thing?

Yes, we're all rightfully concerned about the cap space we're going to have moving forward, but if Beasley turns out to be a high level shooter at the 2 spot, then I'm happy to pay him to be honest.

Agree. If we match it, we do it for a reason and if things don't work out, he can be moved. You move Wiggins on a max deal you can move anyone.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#70 » by Klomp » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:16 am

Killboard wrote:You should use 3pa for 100 or 3pa per36 to assess frequency IMO. That's why I bringed up Abrines and Gary Trent Jr, who also have similar FT%, rebound and steals numbers in the linked list. If evidence say Beasley is an elite shooter, those guys are elite too.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that switching to those players and numbers makes it a more fair comparison.....

Beasley 5.1-12.1, .424 per36 (Minnesota)
Trent 3.0-7.3, .404 per36
Abrines 2.5-7.8, .323 per36
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#71 » by Klomp » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:30 pm

Klomp wrote:
Killboard wrote:You should use 3pa for 100 or 3pa per36 to assess frequency IMO. That's why I bringed up Abrines and Gary Trent Jr, who also have similar FT%, rebound and steals numbers in the linked list. If evidence say Beasley is an elite shooter, those guys are elite too.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that switching to those players and numbers makes it a more fair comparison.....

Beasley 5.1-12.1, .424 per36 (Minnesota)
Trent 3.0-7.3, .404 per36
Abrines 2.5-7.8, .323 per36

And in case you think I intentionally left off per100.....

Abrines 3.3-10.1, .323 per100
Trent 3.9-9.7, .404 per100
Beasley 6.7-15.7, .424 per100 (Minnesota)

Even as a bit role player in Denver this season, he was putting up 3-pointers more frequently in the time he was on the court than both Abrines and Trent (10.7 attempts per100). And his volume only has gone and will continue to stay up in Minnesota.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#72 » by KGdaBom » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:00 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Beasley has had a 3 game run with the Wolves scoring a decent amount of points and one game with a ridiculous 7 3s. He hasn't come close to demonstrating to me that he is worth a big contract. Not saying he can't do that over the rest of the season, but I'm in very much wait and see mode. Everything I have heard about him coming over is that he was quite good at driving the rim. I'm waiting to see him demonstrate that to be true. People are IMO way overreacting to a reasonably hot 3 game stretch.

He's shooting 42% on 3-pointers. That's not really outrageous for a very good 3-point shooter. If he was shooting 60% on 3s, then yeah I think you'd have a case that this is an unsustainable hot streak.

Wolves paid Teague 20/yr. while still paying Wiggins and Towns. Everyone let that sink in.

People hoping they can get Beasely to resign here at 12 are kidding themselves if he keeps shooting like this.

It was 4 years ago they gave Dieng 16/yr. 14/yr to 32 yr old Gibson in 2017. 29/yr 5yr deal to Wiggins just in 2018. If Beasely keeps his shooting going like this, and keeps attacking like an all heart competitor as a starter to finish this season there is no way he deserves less than 15-20, probably higher. Of course he's still got to prove it's not just a honeymoon act.

IF IF IF IF IF Beasley continues performing about the same as his first three games here he will likely get that $15 million a year offer from somebody and possibly more. He hasn't met the IF criterion yet.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#73 » by KGdaBom » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:02 pm

younggunsmn wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:Beasley has been a bit like Gorgui in that he plays better the more minutes he plays.

In 18 starts last year (averaging 31 mpg), he averaged just under 16 ppg and shot 50% from 3-point range (on 6 attempts per game). Obviously that percentage won't hold, but remember he's practically doubled that volume in his 3 games here (11 attempts per game). Lower efficiency at 42%, but that's still crazy good at that volume.

10 players averaging eight 3PApg this season. Two of them are shooting 40%. Neither of them are guards (Davis Bertans, Duncan Robinson). The high-water mark for guards on crazy volume this season seems to be 39%: Lillard, Hield, Kemba (throw in LaVine, VanVleet, McCollum if you lower the threshold to seven 3PApg). Also keep in mind JJ Redick only has one season where he averaged over seven 3PApg (2018-19, 39.7%).

Beasley is putting up these types of shooting numbers at 23 years old. That youth combined with that type of shooting potential when he gets an opportunity, you're dreaming if you think he'll settle for $10 million in this current NBA landscape that is desperate for shooting.

If he maintains 42% on threes at 8 or more per game and isn't a total sieve on D I will be the first in line to say pay the man. However, we don't need to bid against ourselves for his services. If he's great the rest of the season not just scoring, but scoring efficiently and playing D we can offer him 15 mill a year. If he is only decent the rest of the year 10 million a year is fair. If those numbers aren't acceptable to him he can accept his best offer and we can match if we feel like it. Denver who should know him far better than we did wasn't willing to pay him more than $10 million a year and gave up his rights along with Hernangomez and Vanderbilt for a late first round draft pick. I'm hopeful about Beasley, but very far from convinced that he is anything special.


Denver was willing to offer him 10 million a year to be a rotation wing with minutes in the 20's.
The price point on that is going to be different than what you offer a starting 2 playing 32+ mins a night.
They have a lot of money tied up in Gary Harris and WIll Barton on the wing in addition to paying Jokic and Murray the max, along with a lot of depth whose contracts will be expiring.
The fact that they were willing to offer 4/40 says a lot about how they valued him, because that is a very smart front office willing to tie up 4/40 in a non-starter. Gary Harris is also always injured and his production has fallen off a cliff.
That they were willing to trade Beasley for a late 1st says that they didnt think 4/40 would get it done this summer, and with their salary concerns they couldnt afford to go beyond that range and still fill out the rest of the team.

This will a good summer to re-sign a RFA. Not many teams have cap room. But all it takes is one team.
12-15/year is the going rate for a league average wing, and if he does well 3/45 or 4/60 might be the cost.
It's only been 3 games, but he's shown more grit and defense than I'd thought, and more aggression taking it to the rack.
If he can keep shooting around 40% on 3's and show growth in the system while maintaining the energy and grit that he's shown so far, I'd feel comfortable paying him up to 15 mil/year.

If he can sure. If has not been met yet.
Denver was not giving him minutes in the 20s. More like teens.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#74 » by KGdaBom » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:06 pm

Klomp wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Killboard wrote:You should use 3pa for 100 or 3pa per36 to assess frequency IMO. That's why I bringed up Abrines and Gary Trent Jr, who also have similar FT%, rebound and steals numbers in the linked list. If evidence say Beasley is an elite shooter, those guys are elite too.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that switching to those players and numbers makes it a more fair comparison.....

Beasley 5.1-12.1, .424 per36 (Minnesota)
Trent 3.0-7.3, .404 per36
Abrines 2.5-7.8, .323 per36

And in case you think I intentionally left off per100.....

Abrines 3.3-10.1, .323 per100
Trent 3.9-9.7, .404 per100
Beasley 6.7-15.7, .424 per100 (Minnesota)

Even as a bit role player in Denver this season, he was putting up 3-pointers more frequently in the time he was on the court than both Abrines and Trent (10.7 attempts per100). And his volume only has gone and will continue to stay up in Minnesota.

Beasley was not playing well for Denver this year and wasn't getting many minutes even with all their injuries. He's had a hot start for Minnesota, but just a three game sample. His best game was that fluke of all flukes game against the Clippers. I'm hopeful he can prove himself to be a solid starting SG in the NBA. Jury is certainly still out on that.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#75 » by Klomp » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:13 pm

KGdaBom wrote:If he can sure. If has not been met yet.

It's just a difference of opinion of how to look at situations in life. Clearly you're a glass half empty kind of person, waiting until you have full proof of existence before you commit to something being true. Beasley is not capable of being a good 3-point shooter in your mind unless he proves it over a full season.

Other people can see something happen just once to believe it is possible. I don't need a full season to believe Beasley has the potential to be a very good 3-point shooter. We've already seen it in small doses and he just needs the opportunity.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#76 » by KGdaBom » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:30 pm

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:If he can sure. If has not been met yet.

It's just a difference of opinion of how to look at situations in life. Clearly you're a glass half empty kind of person, waiting until you have full proof of existence before you commit to something being true. Beasley is not capable of being a good 3-point shooter in your mind unless he proves it over a full season.

Other people can see something happen just once to believe it is possible. I don't need a full season to believe Beasley has the potential to be a very good 3-point shooter. We've already seen it in small doses and he just needs the opportunity.

I'm actually one of the most positive and optimistic people there are. I never in any way even insinuated that Beasley is not capable of being a good to possibly very good three point shooter. However, I think people are getting ridiculously carried away about Beasley, just like they did with Wiggins hot start to the season. Beasley played poorly for the Nuggets this season after playing very well for them as a fill in starter for a lot of last year. I'm hopeful for Beasley to lead us to several NBA titles. I'm far from convinced that he is capable of doing that yet. In the end I'm confident he will get the contract he deserves whether that be 10 million a year floor or 20 million a year ceiling. I'm hopeful for the Wolves sake that we get him on a value contract.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#77 » by Killboard » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:35 pm

Klomp wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Killboard wrote:You should use 3pa for 100 or 3pa per36 to assess frequency IMO. That's why I bringed up Abrines and Gary Trent Jr, who also have similar FT%, rebound and steals numbers in the linked list. If evidence say Beasley is an elite shooter, those guys are elite too.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that switching to those players and numbers makes it a more fair comparison.....

Beasley 5.1-12.1, .424 per36 (Minnesota)
Trent 3.0-7.3, .404 per36
Abrines 2.5-7.8, .323 per36

And in case you think I intentionally left off per100.....

Abrines 3.3-10.1, .323 per100
Trent 3.9-9.7, .404 per100
Beasley 6.7-15.7, .424 per100 (Minnesota)

Even as a bit role player in Denver this season, he was putting up 3-pointers more frequently in the time he was on the court than both Abrines and Trent (10.7 attempts per100). And his volume only has gone and will continue to stay up in Minnesota.


This a more fair comparison IMO. Plain carreer numbers.

Image

Now, I think Beasley is the best of the 3 and deserve a better contract, the question is how much better and how much more money?
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#78 » by Klomp » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:37 pm

KGdaBom wrote:Beasley played poorly for the Nuggets this season after playing very well for them as a fill in starter for a lot of last year.

Sometimes, players play better when they have a longer leash and can get into a rhythm. Beasley seems to be one of those players who is better with an increased role.

Read on Twitter
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#79 » by KGdaBom » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:40 pm

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Beasley played poorly for the Nuggets this season after playing very well for them as a fill in starter for a lot of last year.

Sometimes, players play better when they have a longer leash and can get into a rhythm. Beasley seems to be one of those players who is better with an increased role.

Read on Twitter

Looks like we should be playing him over 40 MPG. His shooting is through the roof when given that many minutes.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#80 » by Klomp » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:12 pm

Killboard wrote:This a more fair comparison IMO. Plain carreer numbers.

Image

Now, I think Beasley is the best of the 3 and deserve a better contract, the question is how much better and how much more money?

Part of what holds Abrines back is the fact that he came into the league at an older age. Fun fact: Malik Beasley TODAY is the exact same age (down to the day) that Alex Abrines was when Abrines made his NBA debut. Abrines is 26 now, and really has never broken through. Never been a 40% 3-point shooter in a season, while Beasley has.

Trent very well could be on a similar trajectory as Beasley. But he's only in his second year in the league. If he continues on the trajectory Beasley is on, Trent would likely be commanding $15 million/year as well by his fourth season.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.

Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment

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