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The Malik Beasley Thread

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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#81 » by KGdaBom » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:49 pm

I just looked up stats for Booker and Beasley to compare and found it interesting that Booker has a .355 3% for his career. Merely OK at 3s, but he has been shooting well over 50% on his 2s and is lights out from the line.
Beasley is at .384 3% 51% on 2s and is solid at the line. This season Beasley was really struggling in Denver far below his career averages.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#82 » by Jedzz » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:06 pm

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Beasley played poorly for the Nuggets this season after playing very well for them as a fill in starter for a lot of last year.

Sometimes, players play better when they have a longer leash and can get into a rhythm. Beasley seems to be one of those players who is better with an increased role.

Read on Twitter


I think this is maybe the case. A lot of really good shooters are terrible shooters at minimal minutes. rhythm is real.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#83 » by KGdaBom » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:15 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Beasley played poorly for the Nuggets this season after playing very well for them as a fill in starter for a lot of last year.

Sometimes, players play better when they have a longer leash and can get into a rhythm. Beasley seems to be one of those players who is better with an increased role.

Read on Twitter


I think this is maybe the case. A lot of really good shooters are terrible shooters at minimal minutes. rhythm is real.

Rhythm would only make sense if he shoots poorly in the first quarter but better in the second quarter, and similarly in the 2nd half. How many shots does the player need to find his rhythm? How many minutes does he need to sit to lose his rhythm?

I would see it as more likely psychological in that when a player is concerned of being pulled if he misses a couple shots he chokes, but when he knows his minutes are secure he shoots better.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#84 » by Jedzz » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:30 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Klomp wrote:Sometimes, players play better when they have a longer leash and can get into a rhythm. Beasley seems to be one of those players who is better with an increased role.

Read on Twitter


I think this is maybe the case. A lot of really good shooters are terrible shooters at minimal minutes. rhythm is real.

Rhythm would only make sense if he shoots poorly in the first quarter but better in the second quarter, and similarly in the 2nd half. I would see it as more likely psychological in that when a player is concerned of being pulled if he misses a couple shots he chokes, but when he knows his minutes are secure he shoots better.


Come on, give it up. No that's not true. If he's starting and gets say 8 minutes to start the game he could already be in rhythm and helping those first quarter numbers.

Everything seems psychological with most players tho, sure.

It is altogether different even if in first group coming off bench but only seeing 4 minutes in the first and then coming right back off. This is much how Reid has been playing.

If a player misses a couple shots as a starter he's got plenty of current time and later in the game time to work out of funks. If you are playing 3-4 minute stints and miss a couple, the coach might not give you another 3-4 minutes later. But even if he does, those chances are in small increments. Hard to build a rhythm playing 3-4 minutes at a time. Rare players that can I say. Problem with those that can, they often earn a chance for more minutes that doesn't pay off with better shooting with more minutes. The extra time rhythm doesn't work for them, just like they didn't need it to shoot well in low minutes. nasty trade off.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#85 » by Killboard » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:35 pm

Jedzz wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
I think this is maybe the case. A lot of really good shooters are terrible shooters at minimal minutes. rhythm is real.

Rhythm would only make sense if he shoots poorly in the first quarter but better in the second quarter, and similarly in the 2nd half. I would see it as more likely psychological in that when a player is concerned of being pulled if he misses a couple shots he chokes, but when he knows his minutes are secure he shoots better.


Come on, give it up. No that's not true. If he's starting and gets say 8 minutes to start the game he could already be in rhythm and helping those first quarter numbers.

Everything seems psychological with most players tho, sure.

It is altogether different even if in first group coming off bench but only seeing 4 minutes in the first and then coming right back off. This is much how Reid has been playing.

If a player misses a couple shots as a starter he's got plenty of current time and later in the game time to work out of funks. If you are playing 3-4 minute stints and miss a couple, the coach might not give you another 3-4 minutes later. But even if he does, those chances are in small increments. Hard to build a rhythm playing 3-4 minutes at a time. Rare players that can I say. Problem with those that can, they often earn a chance for more minutes that doesn't pay off with better shooting with more minutes. The rhythm doesn't work for them, just like they didn't need it to shoot well in low minutes. nasty trade off.


He could also be playing more because his shot was falling.

Still, I think this is irrelevent in the long run. Thankfully we have 30 games to evalute that also.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#86 » by Killboard » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:40 pm

KGdaBom wrote:I just looked up stats for Booker and Beasley to compare and found it interesting that Booker has a .355 3% for his career. Merely OK at 3s, but he has been shooting well over 50% on his 2s and is lights out from the line.
Beasley is at .384 3% 51% on 2s and is solid at the line. This season Beasley was really struggling in Denver far below his career averages.


And the difference in amount of times they go to the line is abysmal. 6FTA per36 vs 1.5 FTA per36. That and assists talk about how well they can create shots.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#87 » by Calinks » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:56 pm

The difference between his mentality and Wiggins is so so refreshing. Malik has some dog in him. I would have been thrilled to swap him for Wiggins straight up.

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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#88 » by KGdaBom » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:15 pm

Jedzz wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
I think this is maybe the case. A lot of really good shooters are terrible shooters at minimal minutes. rhythm is real.

Rhythm would only make sense if he shoots poorly in the first quarter but better in the second quarter, and similarly in the 2nd half. I would see it as more likely psychological in that when a player is concerned of being pulled if he misses a couple shots he chokes, but when he knows his minutes are secure he shoots better.


Come on, give it up. No that's not true. If he's starting and gets say 8 minutes to start the game he could already be in rhythm and helping those first quarter numbers.

Everything seems psychological with most players tho, sure.

It is altogether different even if in first group coming off bench but only seeing 4 minutes in the first and then coming right back off. This is much how Reid has been playing.

If a player misses a couple shots as a starter he's got plenty of current time and later in the game time to work out of funks. If you are playing 3-4 minute stints and miss a couple, the coach might not give you another 3-4 minutes later. But even if he does, those chances are in small increments. Hard to build a rhythm playing 3-4 minutes at a time. Rare players that can I say. Problem with those that can, they often earn a chance for more minutes that doesn't pay off with better shooting with more minutes. The extra time rhythm doesn't work for them, just like they didn't need it to shoot well in low minutes. nasty trade off.

Depends on how many shots or minutes it takes for the player to get his rhythm. The rhythm theory certainly goes on the longer they play the more shots they take the more likely they are to make them. Maybe shooting 25% on first shot and 66% on last with 40% average on the shots in-between.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#89 » by KGdaBom » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:17 pm

Killboard wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I just looked up stats for Booker and Beasley to compare and found it interesting that Booker has a .355 3% for his career. Merely OK at 3s, but he has been shooting well over 50% on his 2s and is lights out from the line.
Beasley is at .384 3% 51% on 2s and is solid at the line. This season Beasley was really struggling in Denver far below his career averages.


And the difference in amount of times they go to the line is abysmal. 6FTA per36 vs 1.5 FTA per36. That and assists talk about how well they can create shots.

Yep. Booker lives at the line, while any FTs we might get out of Beasley are an unexpected bonus.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#90 » by Klomp » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:41 pm

KGdaBom wrote:I just looked up stats for Booker and Beasley to compare and found it interesting that Booker has a .355 3% for his career. Merely OK at 3s, but he has been shooting well over 50% on his 2s and is lights out from the line.
Beasley is at .384 3% 51% on 2s and is solid at the line. This season Beasley was really struggling in Denver far below his career averages.

Stars like Booker or Harden often have lower percentages because they're usually asked to do more and often is matched up against a better defender, not because they are a poorer shooter. Beasley has a defined role. He likely falls in line more of a JJ Redick career trajectory than a Devin Booker.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#91 » by PZiv » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:00 pm

Beasley over Wiggins is upgrade on its own. Guy should be retained, he has everything Twolves wanted to see in Wiggins.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#92 » by Killboard » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:57 pm

PZiv wrote:Beasley over Wiggins is upgrade on its own. Guy should be retained, he has everything Twolves wanted to see in Wiggins.


It's not an upgrade if we pay him the max. Even if he does not get 20M, compare him to Wiggins is a fairly low bar. He is not a good defender and struggles to create his own shot. Not sure I want to pay much more than MLE money for that.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#93 » by minimus » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:29 pm

Killboard wrote:
PZiv wrote:Beasley over Wiggins is upgrade on its own. Guy should be retained, he has everything Twolves wanted to see in Wiggins.


It's not an upgrade if we pay him the max. Even if he does not get 20M, compare him to Wiggins is a fairly low bar. He is not a good defender and struggles to create his own shot. Not sure I want to pay much more than MLE money for that.


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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#94 » by Jedzz » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:47 pm

Killboard wrote:
PZiv wrote:Beasley over Wiggins is upgrade on its own. Guy should be retained, he has everything Twolves wanted to see in Wiggins.


It's not an upgrade if we pay him the max. Even if he does not get 20M, compare him to Wiggins is a fairly low bar. He is not a good defender and struggles to create his own shot. Not sure I want to pay much more than MLE money for that.


This system needs shooters. Shooters with desire to be great, to be more and to win is a major bonus. There may be no greater need for such a system and this team may have had no greater weakness before he got here.

If he can continue shooting that well and strive to play with that much desire over the remaining games that the team itself isn't trying to win, then that would prove these last three games were not just a honeymoon effort, If that happens, even 20/yr is fine by me. Wolves have paid that and more for players that couldn't offer any of that. Because that same desire will also hopefully start to help him refine net skills, play defense. He's already shown that desire. But really there is no reason he couldn't get a better offer if he shows to be that kind of player. That kind of player would require Wolves to put aside thoughts of trying to take advantage of the FA environment and the few teams that we think are capable of offering him more. If he's that kind of player, you have to start thinking about what he thinks about your team, about your front office, and how much they want him here. If he see's them trying to take advantage of his situation like Denver was, well that type of player doesn't deserve it twice.

However, I think he does have to show more net skills, a glimpse of refinement of finishing skills. Sloppy drives at the net with nothing but effort isn't going to work for a 6-5 player with no advantageous length. Watch some film of Rose or someone, start to copy players that could. Show some refinement there to add to that 3pt shot and get paid and thought of as a deadly offensive threat. I hope the Wolves continue to give him that leash to prove it the rest of this season. If he fades out, he fades out. If he takes over, pay up.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#95 » by darmani » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:28 pm

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Beasley played poorly for the Nuggets this season after playing very well for them as a fill in starter for a lot of last year.

Sometimes, players play better when they have a longer leash and can get into a rhythm. Beasley seems to be one of those players who is better with an increased role.

Read on Twitter

Correlation does not imply causation. If anything, better shooting percentage is the cause why he gets more playing time, not the other way around. On a deep team like the Nuggets it's difficult for a role player to get a lot of time on the court when he has a poor shooting night.

Here are the Wolves and Suns legend Wesley Johnson's career shooting splits:

40+ min: .574 TS%
30-39 min: .535 TS%
20-29 min: .500 TS%
10-19 min: .436 TS%
0-9 min: .378 TS%
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#96 » by Killboard » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:22 pm

Dunc'd On had their SG rankings for this season.

The list went something like:

Spoiler:
T1
Harden
Klay

T2
Booker
Beal
Mitchell

T3
McCollum
Oladipo
Richardson
Smart
Eric Gordon

T4
JJ Redick
Evan Fournier
Bogdanovic
Lou Williams
Will Barton

Harris
Shamet
Robinson
Lavine
Powell
KCP

Kennard
Huerter
Levert
Hardaway JR
Lamb
Clarkson
Nunn
Divincenzo
Josh Hart
Hield

M. Beasley
Melton
Thybulle
Herro
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#97 » by KGdaBom » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:25 pm

Killboard wrote:Dunc'd On had their SG rankings for this season.

The list went something like:

Spoiler:
T1
Harden
Klay

T2
Booker
Beal
Mitchell

T3
McCollum
Oladipo
Richardson
Smart
Eric Gordon

T4
JJ Redick
Evan Fournier
Bogdanovic
Lou Williams
Will Barton

Harris
Shamet
Robinson
Lavine
Powell
KCP

Kennard
Huerter
Levert
Hardaway JR
Lamb
Clarkson
Nunn
Divincenzo
Josh Hart
Hield

M. Beasley
Melton
Thybulle
Herro

I bet if it were updated Beasley would move up, but this is definitely more ammo for our stance that as of now we shouldn't be breaking the bank for him.
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#98 » by Klomp » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:27 pm

darmani wrote:
Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Beasley played poorly for the Nuggets this season after playing very well for them as a fill in starter for a lot of last year.

Sometimes, players play better when they have a longer leash and can get into a rhythm. Beasley seems to be one of those players who is better with an increased role.

Read on Twitter

Correlation does not imply causation. If anything, better shooting percentage is the cause why he gets more playing time, not the other way around. On a deep team like the Nuggets it's difficult for a role player to get a lot of time on the court when he has a poor shooting night.

Here are the Wolves and Suns legend Wesley Johnson's career shooting splits:

40+ min: .574 TS%
30-39 min: .535 TS%
20-29 min: .500 TS%
10-19 min: .436 TS%
0-9 min: .378 TS%

Sure, that's probably part of it. But the comparison to Wes isn't really fair because Malik performs at a completely higher level in those same minutes.

40+: Beasley 123 ORtg, Johnson 107 ORtg
30-39: Beasley 120 ORtg, Johnson 102 ORtg
20-29: Beasley 111 Rtg, Johnson 96 ORtg
10-19: Beasley 93 Rtg, Johnson 85 ORtg
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#99 » by KGdaBom » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:36 pm

Klomp wrote:
darmani wrote:
Klomp wrote:Sometimes, players play better when they have a longer leash and can get into a rhythm. Beasley seems to be one of those players who is better with an increased role.

Read on Twitter

Correlation does not imply causation. If anything, better shooting percentage is the cause why he gets more playing time, not the other way around. On a deep team like the Nuggets it's difficult for a role player to get a lot of time on the court when he has a poor shooting night.

Here are the Wolves and Suns legend Wesley Johnson's career shooting splits:

40+ min: .574 TS%
30-39 min: .535 TS%
20-29 min: .500 TS%
10-19 min: .436 TS%
0-9 min: .378 TS%

Sure, that's probably part of it. But the comparison to Wes isn't really fair because Malik performs at a completely higher level in those same minutes.

40+: Beasley 123 ORtg, Johnson 107 ORtg
30-39: Beasley 120 ORtg, Johnson 102 ORtg
20-29: Beasley 111 Rtg, Johnson 96 ORtg
10-19: Beasley 93 Rtg, Johnson 85 ORtg

We are really digging deep into the stats now. :o
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Re: The Malik Beasley Thread 

Post#100 » by Killboard » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:04 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Killboard wrote:Dunc'd On had their SG rankings for this season.

The list went something like:

Spoiler:
T1
Harden
Klay

T2
Booker
Beal
Mitchell

T3
McCollum
Oladipo
Richardson
Smart
Eric Gordon

T4
JJ Redick
Evan Fournier
Bogdanovic
Lou Williams
Will Barton

Harris
Shamet
Robinson
Lavine
Powell
KCP

Kennard
Huerter
Levert
Hardaway JR
Lamb
Clarkson
Nunn
Divincenzo
Josh Hart
Hield

M. Beasley
Melton
Thybulle
Herro

I bet if it were updated Beasley would move up, but this is definitely more ammo for our stance that as of now we shouldn't be breaking the bank for him.


Well, it's actually updated since it was made yesterday, but in the end they said Beasley can be one of the up and coming players given he is going to have the oportunity. Which is not clear is how much he can go up on those tiers.

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