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Welp 3 game losing streak.

We got butchered on the boards. 57-43? Eesh. It's giving me pause when it comes to committing to Hernangomez long term. He ticks a lot of other boxes but he's never been a strong rebounder.

shangrila wrote:We got butchered on the boards. 57-43? Eesh. It's giving me pause when it comes to committing to Hernangomez long term. He ticks a lot of other boxes but he's never been a strong rebounder.

They say Vanderbilt is an elite rebounder.

Calinks wrote:Welp 3 game losing streak.

It's fine.

I mean, it sucks, but this is somewhat expected especially with KAT out. Our remaining schedule is brutal, so long as we compete (which we have been) then it's ok.

KGdaBom wrote:

shangrila wrote:We got butchered on the boards. 57-43? Eesh. It's giving me pause when it comes to committing to Hernangomez long term. He ticks a lot of other boxes but he's never been a strong rebounder.

They say Vanderbilt is an elite rebounder.

Yeah, he's got the opposite problem in that he ticks that box but what else does he do?

Calinks wrote:Curse that we hang so close with Boston and lose cause KAT is out with a broken wrist.

Just wanted to pop in and say that was a good, tough contest. Our board was imploding for a while there. Get healthy soon.

shangrila wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

shangrila wrote:We got butchered on the boards. 57-43? Eesh. It's giving me pause when it comes to committing to Hernangomez long term. He ticks a lot of other boxes but he's never been a strong rebounder.

They say Vanderbilt is an elite rebounder.

Yeah, he's got the opposite problem in that he ticks that box but what else does he do?

Good D and exceptional athlete.

Russell's inability to create space without a screen is painful

KAT4PREZ wrote:Russell's inability to create space without a screen is painful

I think he can. I’m not sure he’s trying to... I think he plays slow to fast and prefers keeping guys on his hip.

It’s pretty easy for him to shake his guy with his handle to get space to get his shot off and most of the fouls he draws come from keeping the player on his hip and doing his little hesi-go up move and ripping through.

Have to be able to finish at least a few and1’s ... it’s the NBA and there has to be a player or two across the globe that could help us “finish”

I don’t understand the poor rebounding ... we simply don’t value ball procession like other teams.

Bench didn’t being much help tonight - need depth if your a hard working team

TheZachAttack wrote:

KAT4PREZ wrote:Russell's inability to create space without a screen is painful

I think he can. I’m not sure he’s trying to... I think he plays slow to fast and prefers keeping guys on his hip.

It’s pretty easy for him to shake his guy with his handle to get space to get his shot off and most of the fouls he draws come from keeping the player on his hip and doing his little hesi-go up move and ripping through.

yeah but it's just frustrating to see his reliance on tough jumpers when the shot isn't falling

KAT4PREZ wrote:

TheZachAttack wrote:

KAT4PREZ wrote:Russell's inability to create space without a screen is painful

I think he can. I’m not sure he’s trying to... I think he plays slow to fast and prefers keeping guys on his hip.

It’s pretty easy for him to shake his guy with his handle to get space to get his shot off and most of the fouls he draws come from keeping the player on his hip and doing his little hesi-go up move and ripping through.

yeah but it's just frustrating to see his reliance on tough jumpers when the shot isn't falling

That’s fair, I had a similar though. Ultimately though, he did get to the line 8 times and was 4-7 inside the 3 point line.

If he’s even 3 of 9 (which is still a below average shoot Night for him) he’s at 24 and 13...

...so basically I think this was one of his worst shooting games of his career... he actually played decently other than his shooting

TheZachAttack wrote:

KAT4PREZ wrote:Russell's inability to create space without a screen is painful

I think he can. I’m not sure he’s trying to... I think he plays slow to fast and prefers keeping guys on his hip.

I don’t believe he can — if he could, he would have done so on one of the four teams he’s played for. I believe his inability to get off a shot and his inability to finish at the rim is because of his lack of athleticism.

I think you see him get off his long two’s without a screen because that’s a low-value shot that opposing coaches want him to take.

shrink wrote:

TheZachAttack wrote:

KAT4PREZ wrote:Russell's inability to create space without a screen is painful

I think he can. I’m not sure he’s trying to... I think he plays slow to fast and prefers keeping guys on his hip.

I don’t believe he can — if he could, he would have done so on one of the four teams he’s played for. I believe his inability to get off a shot and his inability to finish at the rim is because of his lack of athleticism.

I think you see him get off his long two’s without a screen because that’s a low-value shot that opposing coaches want him to take.

I think he shows he can get a shot off from anywhere with very little space needed and it takes very little effort. He doesn't seem to need an ankle breaking move or a step back to get them off. His shot happens very quickly whether it's a midrange 2 or a 3. Zach seems to be right that he keeps players on him tight because he can. He's hit multiple 3s already since being here with a defender right on him and they are swishy smooth. I agree with others who said this was a bad shooting game compared to his typical and yet it's still productive. I just hope the bad shooting curse on this team isn't already going to get him.

He passed to plenty of players that had the option to attempt a 3 tonight above the key and a great majority of the time they hesitate badly, the defender gets there and they are forced to pass late or drive in. The entire first half was riddled with this.

Even with plenty of that going on and plenty of bricking by others , and nobody able to finish inside the hoop while drawing a foul, they played the Celtics tight most of the game. Thank goodness they were hitting FTs well or it might have been more a blowout. Remove the hesitation and most of them will shoot better.

KAT4PREZ wrote:Russell's inability to create space without a screen is painful

If I had to choose between Wiggins inability to use screen and DLo inability to create space without a screen, I'd choose DLo PnR/PnP ability.

Does it really matter how you initiate you offense? By using screen, by rejecting screen, by beating opponent himself? If I look the big picture DLo is way more creative with the ball in his hands, because he can shot, he can pass and ha can actually finish at rim at some degree. The testament of this are his 13 assists today. Because he has a lot of gravity in the mid range and beyond the arc.



This is also the answer why we should allow DLo playing his strengths, for instance scoring mid range shots.

Couple of thoughts:

* - Naz Reid is a very interesting case. Offensively he seems ahead of his age in development, but physically he has a lot to improve. He had some of the worst agility numbers at the combine and only put up three reps on the bench. He improved his conditioning a lot since draft, but he is still very weak by bigmen standard. I think improving strength at least upper body strength is very doable for him, but improving core and lower body strength might do wonder for him, because he has good hands, soft touch and advanced footwork. If he can improve defense and particularly defensive rebounding he will be a star.
* - I keep saying this: Juancho is an underrated shooter. He is a decisive shooter, has quick release and good footwork. He will never be above average defender and rebounder, but assessing him correctly before giving him extension seems to be a right thing
* - DLo + Beasley + Okogie backcourt is a functional unit, they need to improve chemistry, they have their strengths and weaknesses but we can start building from here: shooting, passing and scoring creativity. They also play enjoyable offense.
* - I like JJ a lot, but he is erratic, inconsistent. Given importance of having defensive minded PF next to KAT, Reid and Juancho I'd say that JJ will be traded in first week of FA market.
* - We need a big wing. It is clear when we play teams such as BOS. BOS plays pure 1+3+1 with Tatum-Brown-Hayward as big wings. We have only one wing who fits this pattern: over 6'8", athletic, can shoot, can drive, can defend. Unfortunately he has been injured for three months. Layman is a big part of this team next season, but we need one more big wing. Martin can be that guy, this is why he is ahead of Nowell in rotation, but he has not shown any type of consistency. I still want us to give him 1+3 contract. Also this:


* - Culver should be traded even we can get any value back. There is no clear role for him in offense, unless he improves he shot this offseason, which is highly unlikely.
* - keep ML

Soaping:

Kevin Love was horrible about it at times here. Surviving on and having a goal to get additional points from foul shots alone at times. The flailing arms at first sign of contact. The incomplete effort of finishing with a made basket at all costs. That can't be the goal of possessions. Put all focus on finishing the ball in the hoop and let the natural fouls occur when the game wears on and defenses start pressing to try and stop the makes. After the young players have crafted and honed an ability to keep the ball at arms length from the defender and finish in the hoop however they have to, then the abiltiy to draw fouls as and1's increases because they've learned how to position the body that will draw fouls when ref sees the primary focus was the net and not drawing a foul.

The last few games have been loaded with ugly attempts to finish at the rim and more of the ugly attempts to just throw themselves at the rim and defender and draw a foul. Often enough it doesn't draw the foul at all. The refs can see what they are doing some of the time. And if they draw the foul without making a true effort to make the hoop, all they did is put higher pressure on their FT shooting to complete the possession when a higher percentage layup or slam might have been easy enough and leads more to postive ebs and flows and positive momentum. Three possessions in a row of trying to get a point or two through FTs alone isn't going to heat your team up. I just see too much effort to draw the foul happening before making the basket and it might be why most of the team can look so unskilled trying to drive the net at times.

minimus wrote:

KAT4PREZ wrote:Russell's inability to create space without a screen is painful

If I had to choose between Wiggins inability to use screen and DLo inability to create space without a screen, I'd choose DLo PnR/PnP ability.

Does it really matter how you initiate you offense? By using screen, by rejecting screen, by beating opponent himself? If I look the big picture DLo is way more creative with the ball in his hands, because he can shot, he can pass and ha can actually finish at rim at some degree. The testament of this are his 13 assists today. Because he has a lot of gravity in the mid range and beyond the arc.

Read on Twitter

This is also the answer why we should allow DLo playing his strengths, for instance scoring mid range shots.

I agree. It's all part of what makes him effective creating opportunities for others.
This is part of how he plays and is effective. The team bought into him and will have to play along this way.

shangrila wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

shangrila wrote:We got butchered on the boards. 57-43? Eesh. It's giving me pause when it comes to committing to Hernangomez long term. He ticks a lot of other boxes but he's never been a strong rebounder.

They say Vanderbilt is an elite rebounder.

Yeah, he's got the opposite problem in that he ticks that box but what else does he do?

Not much you can do if he's in Iowa. If someone like that is at the game the coach could give him minutes to balance out the rebounding weakness that was glaring this game and just put more pressure on others to add the shooting. Of course, using a bench player in that way on a game by game basis of need is far too flexible a thought for us anyway.

minimus wrote:Couple of thoughts:

* - Naz Reid is a very interesting case. Offensively he seems ahead of his age in development, but physically he has a lot to improve. He had some of the worst agility numbers at the combine and only put up three reps on the bench. He improved his conditioning a lot since draft, but he is still very weak by bigmen standard. I think improving strength at least upper body strength is very doable for him, but improving core and lower body strength might do wonder for him, because he has good hands, soft touch and advanced footwork. If he can improve defense and particularly defensive rebounding he will be a star.
* - I keep saying this: Juancho is an underrated shooter. He is a decisive shooter, has quick release and good footwork. He will never be above average defender and rebounder, but assessing him correctly before giving him extension seems to be a right thing
* - DLo + Beasley + Okogie backcourt is a functional unit, they need to improve chemistry, they have their strengths and weaknesses but we can start building from here: shooting, passing and scoring creativity. They also play enjoyable offense.
* - I like JJ a lot, but he is erratic, inconsistent. Given importance of having defensive minded PF next to KAT, Reid and Juancho I'd say that JJ will be traded in first week of FA market.
* - We need a big wing. It is clear when we play teams such as BOS. BOS plays pure 1+3+1 with Tatum-Brown-Hayward as big wings. We have only one wing who fits this pattern: over 6'8", athletic, can shoot, can drive, can defend. Unfortunately he has been injured for three months. Layman is a big part of this team next season, but we need one more big wing. Martin can be that guy, this is why he is ahead of Nowell in rotation, but he has not shown any type of consistency. I still want us to give him 1+3 contract. Also this:

Read on Twitter

* - Culver should be traded even we can get any value back. There is no clear role for him in offense, unless he improves he shot this offseason, which is highly unlikely.
* - keep ML

Reid surprises me. I wasn't very high on him when he first got minutes, but he's developing quickly. He's athletically challenged (slow, and 3 reps benchpress is absurd), but he has the built (unlike Wiggins) to improve at least his strenght drastically. But he has a solid court awareness, can score some, already sets better screens than KAT and is better at contesting shots than I thought. I'am starting to like him a prospect.

I agree about JJ and Culver. JJ contract will be an expiring and therefore is tradeable. I think Culver needs to go as long as he holds some value. I think he might be a bust, not a good resume for Rosas first draft pick.

as for our backcourt, Iam more impressed by Beas than Russell tbh. such a talented scorer. Russell's impact is meh at the moment. Hope he still adjustes.

Herni is not a starter for a playoff team, but I would gladly have him as a backup for the next seasons.
And Martin: I don't think he's a good player and hope we don't have to relay on him going forward. He doesn't do good things on the court for us.