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The D'Angelo Russell Thread

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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#121 » by Worm Guts » Sat Jan 2, 2021 8:23 pm

Klomp wrote:
Worm Guts wrote: Being-89 in 3 games is so much further beyond anything with Towns that it’s a poor comparison. Hopefully it’s just a small sample, honestly I don’t think it’s possible to go a full season this bad

Somebody's bound to have numbers like that after 3 blowouts. Rubio's a -45 in same span, yet everyone wants to hand him the keys to the franchise.


Russell has been visibly terrible. For someone who should be our best player with Town out, he’s arguably been the worst.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#122 » by Shaka_Zulu » Sat Jan 2, 2021 8:56 pm

Klomp wrote:
Worm Guts wrote: Being-89 in 3 games is so much further beyond anything with Towns that it’s a poor comparison. Hopefully it’s just a small sample, honestly I don’t think it’s possible to go a full season this bad

Somebody's bound to have numbers like that after 3 blowouts. Rubio's a -45 in same span, yet everyone wants to hand him the keys to the franchise.



Who does? Who does that everyone included? Rubio is just a roleplayer who does the basic decently, but seems too slow right now to do much offensively at all (and I was personally against using 17m on a PG when we need starting forwards/wings).

Injuries forces us to play him with Dlo and too many other guards (who play WIDELY different from his style of basketball, to the point you have to ask why did they get Rubio back if is this is the plan), but if you stagger him with the right set up (after we injury free) he can be useful. We were 4 pts from wizards when he was lead guard, similar with Jmac, just by them playing basic teamball, as soon as DLo gets back in we get hammered back to blowout numbers. That was not a coincidence, it kept happening all game long.


I'm not even checking those numbers (I havent really learned how they calculate them, just get what it signals). Just what I see. Rubio isnt being ouright terrible out there, not even close, slowfooted passenger at worst. While Russell who is supposed to be our 2nd best player, is being our absolute worst one if you dont count Juancho/Layman duo.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#123 » by Killboard » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:02 pm

Klomp wrote:
Worm Guts wrote: Being-89 in 3 games is so much further beyond anything with Towns that it’s a poor comparison. Hopefully it’s just a small sample, honestly I don’t think it’s possible to go a full season this bad

Somebody's bound to have numbers like that after 3 blowouts. Rubio's a -45 in same span, yet everyone wants to hand him the keys to the franchise.


That's in part because he has played with Dlo.

Rubio ON/Dlo OFF is 126.7 ORTG/110.9 DRTG in 50 minutes.

Dlo ON/Rubio OFF is 87 ORTG/ 115.5 DRTG in 73 minutes.

I don't think that's actually the real difference between the two, but it sure looks like that so far.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#124 » by PharmD » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:31 pm

Klomp wrote:
Worm Guts wrote: Being-89 in 3 games is so much further beyond anything with Towns that it’s a poor comparison. Hopefully it’s just a small sample, honestly I don’t think it’s possible to go a full season this bad

Somebody's bound to have numbers like that after 3 blowouts. Rubio's a -45 in same span, yet everyone wants to hand him the keys to the franchise.

Last 3 games:

Ricky is -44 in 69 minutes. He's -32 in 37 minutes sharing the floor with DLo and -12 in 32 minutes without DLo.

DLo is -89 in 77 minutes. He's -32 in 37 minutes sharing the floor with Rubio and -57 in 40 minutes without Rubio.

DLo is killing Ricky and Ricky is making DLo's minutes a bit better but they're still awful.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#125 » by PharmD » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:39 pm

For the whole season:

DLo + Rubio is -21 in 61 minutes.

DLo is -93 in 145 minutes. So -72 in 84 minutes without Rubio.

Rubio is -21 in 121 minutes. He is +0 in 60 minutes with no DLo.

So DLo's minutes are a better when he plays with Rubio. Rubio's minutes are much better when he plays without DLo.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#126 » by Calinks » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:45 pm

He's been really really bad. No way around that. That said, he's a better player than this, he was even better last season for us. He has to figure that out.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#127 » by Killboard » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:52 pm

PharmD wrote:For the whole season:

DLo + Rubio is -21 in 61 minutes.

DLo is -93 in 145 minutes. So -72 in 84 minutes without Rubio.

Rubio is -21 in 121 minutes. He is +0 in 60 minutes with no DLo.

So DLo's minutes are a better when he plays with Rubio. Rubio's minutes are much better when he plays without DLo.



Something does not add up.

Nba WOWY (https://www.addmorefunds.com/nba/wowy/, register required) says Rubio ON/Dlo OFF is 50 minutes. Where do you get those stats? Not sure mine is OK, just to know.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#128 » by PharmD » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:59 pm

Killboard wrote:
PharmD wrote:For the whole season:

DLo + Rubio is -21 in 61 minutes.

DLo is -93 in 145 minutes. So -72 in 84 minutes without Rubio.

Rubio is -21 in 121 minutes. He is +0 in 60 minutes with no DLo.

So DLo's minutes are a better when he plays with Rubio. Rubio's minutes are much better when he plays without DLo.



Something does not add up.

Nba WOWY (https://www.addmorefunds.com/nba/wowy/, register required) says Rubio ON/Dlo OFF is 50 minutes. Where do you get those stats? Not sure mine is OK, just to know.

I just did the math. Rubio has played 121 minutes (bbref) and he's played 61 with DLo (nba.com and bbref). 121 - 61 = 60 unless I'm worse at math then i think i am.

Are they maybe excluding garbage time minutes?
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#129 » by Jedzz » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:00 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Worm Guts wrote: Being-89 in 3 games is so much further beyond anything with Towns that it’s a poor comparison. Hopefully it’s just a small sample, honestly I don’t think it’s possible to go a full season this bad

Somebody's bound to have numbers like that after 3 blowouts. Rubio's a -45 in same span, yet everyone wants to hand him the keys to the franchise.


Russell has been visibly terrible. For someone who should be our best player with Town out, he’s arguably been the worst.


One question for you.

If Dlo was out, would Towns be sharing his Center duties with one or even two of five other players on any given possession?

Hard to describe his role so far in these games as a typical Max starter and talk about expectations like that.

He didn't even start all the games. You guys really dissapoint sometimes.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#130 » by Jedzz » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:02 pm

PharmD wrote:
Killboard wrote:
PharmD wrote:For the whole season:

DLo + Rubio is -21 in 61 minutes.

DLo is -93 in 145 minutes. So -72 in 84 minutes without Rubio.

Rubio is -21 in 121 minutes. He is +0 in 60 minutes with no DLo.

So DLo's minutes are a better when he plays with Rubio. Rubio's minutes are much better when he plays without DLo.



Something does not add up.

Nba WOWY (https://www.addmorefunds.com/nba/wowy/, register required) says Rubio ON/Dlo OFF is 50 minutes. Where do you get those stats? Not sure mine is OK, just to know.

I just did the math. Rubio has played 121 minutes (bbref) and he's played 61 with DLo (nba.com and bbref). 121 - 61 = 60 unless I'm worse at math then i think i am.

Are they maybe excluding garbage time minutes?

Do you guys expect all websites to be updated at the same time after recent games, and on New years weekend? Just a thought.

Another thought for you. Who was actually playing PG when Rubio and Dlo play together. And then, who were they playing with while not on the court together and what were their roles then. Dlo has possibly played more off ball them most guards outside Okogie.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#131 » by Jedzz » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:03 pm

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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#132 » by PharmD » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:08 pm

Killboard wrote:
PharmD wrote:For the whole season:

DLo + Rubio is -21 in 61 minutes.

DLo is -93 in 145 minutes. So -72 in 84 minutes without Rubio.

Rubio is -21 in 121 minutes. He is +0 in 60 minutes with no DLo.

So DLo's minutes are a better when he plays with Rubio. Rubio's minutes are much better when he plays without DLo.



Something does not add up.

Nba WOWY (https://www.addmorefunds.com/nba/wowy/, register required) says Rubio ON/Dlo OFF is 50 minutes. Where do you get those stats? Not sure mine is OK, just to know.

Although if I look at nba wowy:

Via NBA WOWY ALL GAMES
Rubio ON/Dlo OFF: 126.7 ORTG/110.9 DRTG in 50 minutes. (Rubio +15.8 with no DLo)

Dlo ON/Rubio OFF: is 87 ORTG/ 115.5 DRTG in 73 minutes. (DLo -28.5 with no Rubio)

We are getting killed whenever D'Angelo is on the court. It's definitely better when he plays with Rubio but still "get blown out every game" level of bad.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#133 » by Killboard » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:17 pm

PharmD wrote:
Killboard wrote:
PharmD wrote:For the whole season:

DLo + Rubio is -21 in 61 minutes.

DLo is -93 in 145 minutes. So -72 in 84 minutes without Rubio.

Rubio is -21 in 121 minutes. He is +0 in 60 minutes with no DLo.

So DLo's minutes are a better when he plays with Rubio. Rubio's minutes are much better when he plays without DLo.



Something does not add up.

Nba WOWY (https://www.addmorefunds.com/nba/wowy/, register required) says Rubio ON/Dlo OFF is 50 minutes. Where do you get those stats? Not sure mine is OK, just to know.

I just did the math. Rubio has played 121 minutes (bbref) and he's played 61 with DLo (nba.com and bbref). 121 - 61 = 60 unless I'm worse at math then i think i am.

Are they maybe excluding garbage time minutes?


Oh, I see. Now I checked better and NBA WOWY is counting 4 games and not the game against Washington just yet..
Point still stands though.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#134 » by Jedzz » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:17 pm

PharmD wrote:
Killboard wrote:
PharmD wrote:For the whole season:

DLo + Rubio is -21 in 61 minutes.

DLo is -93 in 145 minutes. So -72 in 84 minutes without Rubio.

Rubio is -21 in 121 minutes. He is +0 in 60 minutes with no DLo.

So DLo's minutes are a better when he plays with Rubio. Rubio's minutes are much better when he plays without DLo.



Something does not add up.

Nba WOWY (https://www.addmorefunds.com/nba/wowy/, register required) says Rubio ON/Dlo OFF is 50 minutes. Where do you get those stats? Not sure mine is OK, just to know.

Although if I look at nba wowy:

Via NBA WOWY ALL GAMES
Rubio ON/Dlo OFF: 126.7 ORTG/110.9 DRTG in 50 minutes. (Rubio +15.8 with no DLo)

Dlo ON/Rubio OFF: is 87 ORTG/ 115.5 DRTG in 73 minutes. (DLo -28.5 with no Rubio)

We are getting killed whenever D'Angelo is on the court. It's definitely better when he plays with Rubio but still "get blown out every game" level of bad.
\\

I think this is the definition of using numbers to feed your prior thoughts. Neither of you are looking at this with any depth. Go ahead and argue about your numbers not being the same. They are both meaningless as to why one of our better players is struggling to play his best ball and yet also ending up on the floor often not controlling possesions as well and taking the plus/minus hit for those as well.

I'll give you one of the bazillion reasons your numbers are useless to talk about right now. Rubio was basically pulled out of early blowout losses where his vaunted plus/minus would likely tank with everyone elses during those extra minutes no matter if he has played well in other moments or not.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#135 » by Jedzz » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:19 pm

Killboard wrote:
PharmD wrote:
Killboard wrote:

Something does not add up.

Nba WOWY (https://www.addmorefunds.com/nba/wowy/, register required) says Rubio ON/Dlo OFF is 50 minutes. Where do you get those stats? Not sure mine is OK, just to know.

I just did the math. Rubio has played 121 minutes (bbref) and he's played 61 with DLo (nba.com and bbref). 121 - 61 = 60 unless I'm worse at math then i think i am.

Are they maybe excluding garbage time minutes?


Oh, I see. Now I checked better and NBA WOWY is counting 4 games and not the game against Washington just yet..
Point still stands though.


It actually doesn't still stand. But at least it wasn't because a website was behind yet.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#136 » by Killboard » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:21 pm

Jedzz wrote: I think this is the definition of using numbers to feed your prior thoughts. Neither of you are looking at this with any depth. Go ahead and argue about your numbers not being the same. They are both meaningless as to why one of our better players is struggling to play his best ball and yet also ending up on the floor often not controlling possesions as well and taking the plus/minus hit for those as well.

I'll give you one of the bazillion reasons your numbers are useless to talk about right now. Rubio was basically pulled out of early blowout losses where his vaunted plus/minus would likely tank with everyone elses during those extra minutes no matter if he has played well in other moments or not.


We are going to argue about whatever we want. But we are sharing data, not arguing, maybe you like that too much and can't read very well what we are saying.

Still, data is data and anyone can give their own read. Whatever it make sense to you or not, is your vision, and anyone is entitled to his own opinion.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#137 » by Killboard » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:23 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Killboard wrote:
PharmD wrote:I just did the math. Rubio has played 121 minutes (bbref) and he's played 61 with DLo (nba.com and bbref). 121 - 61 = 60 unless I'm worse at math then i think i am.

Are they maybe excluding garbage time minutes?


Oh, I see. Now I checked better and NBA WOWY is counting 4 games and not the game against Washington just yet..
Point still stands though.


It actually doesn't still stand. But at least it wasn't because a website was behind yet.


The difference is so significant that IMO it does not matter if Rubio is pulled earlier or not. Russell makes Rubio worse so far and that's not arguable.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#138 » by Jedzz » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:25 pm

Killboard wrote:
Jedzz wrote: I think this is the definition of using numbers to feed your prior thoughts. Neither of you are looking at this with any depth. Go ahead and argue about your numbers not being the same. They are both meaningless as to why one of our better players is struggling to play his best ball and yet also ending up on the floor often not controlling possesions as well and taking the plus/minus hit for those as well.

I'll give you one of the bazillion reasons your numbers are useless to talk about right now. Rubio was basically pulled out of early blowout losses where his vaunted plus/minus would likely tank with everyone elses during those extra minutes no matter if he has played well in other moments or not.


We are going to argue about whatever we want. But we are sharing data, not arguing, maybe you like that too much and can't read very well what we are saying.

Still, data is data and anyone can give their own read. Whatever it make sense to you or not, is your vision, and anyone is entitled to his own opinion.


It's not that the data doesn't make sense pal. It's what you are trying to say it proves that is actually faulty.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#139 » by PharmD » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:25 pm

Jedzz wrote:
PharmD wrote:
Killboard wrote:

Something does not add up.

Nba WOWY (https://www.addmorefunds.com/nba/wowy/, register required) says Rubio ON/Dlo OFF is 50 minutes. Where do you get those stats? Not sure mine is OK, just to know.

Although if I look at nba wowy:

Via NBA WOWY ALL GAMES
Rubio ON/Dlo OFF: 126.7 ORTG/110.9 DRTG in 50 minutes. (Rubio +15.8 with no DLo)

Dlo ON/Rubio OFF: is 87 ORTG/ 115.5 DRTG in 73 minutes. (DLo -28.5 with no Rubio)

We are getting killed whenever D'Angelo is on the court. It's definitely better when he plays with Rubio but still "get blown out every game" level of bad.
\\

I think this is the definition of using numbers to feed your prior thoughts. Neither of you are looking at this with any depth. Go ahead and argue about your numbers not being the same. They are both meaningless as to why one of our better players is struggling to play his best ball and yet also ending up on the floor often not controlling possesions as well and taking the plus/minus hit for those as well.

I'll give you one of the bazillion reasons your numbers are useless to talk about right now. Rubio was basically pulled out of early blowout losses where his vaunted plus/minus would likely tank with everyone elses during those extra minutes no matter if he has played well in other moments or not.

I would say that it's using numbers to describe what we're seeing. I doubt anyone went from "I thought D'Angelo was playing well but then i looked at the numbers and realized he wasn't!" We can all see how terribly D'Angelo is playing. The numbers are just a (fun) way to describe that level of awfulness.

And also it's a way to head-off the people that want to be contrarians and spin a tale of it being not-D'Angelo's fault (such as the post i responded to that started this).
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#140 » by Killboard » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:29 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Killboard wrote:
Jedzz wrote: I think this is the definition of using numbers to feed your prior thoughts. Neither of you are looking at this with any depth. Go ahead and argue about your numbers not being the same. They are both meaningless as to why one of our better players is struggling to play his best ball and yet also ending up on the floor often not controlling possesions as well and taking the plus/minus hit for those as well.

I'll give you one of the bazillion reasons your numbers are useless to talk about right now. Rubio was basically pulled out of early blowout losses where his vaunted plus/minus would likely tank with everyone elses during those extra minutes no matter if he has played well in other moments or not.


We are going to argue about whatever we want. But we are sharing data, not arguing, maybe you like that too much and can't read very well what we are saying.

Still, data is data and anyone can give their own read. Whatever it make sense to you or not, is your vision, and anyone is entitled to his own opinion.


It's not that the data doesn't make sense pal. It's what you are trying to say it proves that is actually faulty.


So, since you claim my reasoning is faulty, do you have idea what I was trying to prove in the first place?

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