Jedzz wrote:...post the numbers for the two while both playing together.
I assume you edited?
Anyway, you said:
But maybe we should talk about how plus/minus even works and their minutes together and how exactly you expect them to be so different while broken down to exactly while they were both on the court together. You showed:
(Rubio +15.8 with no DLo)
(DLo -28.5 with no Rubio)
What is Dlo when playing with Rubio, and what is Rubio when playing with DLo.
DLo is probably playing more off-guard when playing with Rubio, and probably Rubio is playing more off-ball when playing with DLo.
So, not sure if you wanted it worded that way, but I don't see it working both ways. One has run point more than the other while together.
Post the numbers for both players while playing together. The numbers should be exactly the same. Of course posting that doesn't sell a narrative right? Further, when Dlo is playing off guard he's less in control of how the team performs offensively. But really that would sort of go towards your point while Rubio and he play together Dlo is just a wing. The part that doesn't is that he's also had to play plenty of off ball SG roles and aimless wing roles when playing with others. Who's more responsible for the offensive possession when Edwards or Culver is onball? It's not Dlo if they never got him involved.
I'm no coach and barely know how to say these things.
There are no set plays happening with these guys that I notice. So the Wings are just aimless or working off what the defenders are allowing, or stationary corner statues when one of our PGs are offball or everyone I guess is in 5 out. Edwards goes in iso mode, he calls his own number and jacks a brick. Is that Dlo's fault? Beasley drives in against the Wizards and just loses the ball while dribbling. That Dlo's fault? Culver calls his own number and misses the shot. Is that Dlo's fault? Dude never touched the ball, never led any of these possessions. But he'll take the strike just the same. I'm just recalling a few from memory last game but the examples are endless. When Dlo has had control, walks the ball up, has the decision to make, he's more or less playing like Edwards right now because too many of them like Culver/Edwards aren't playing with him. So he's just trying to carry with his shots. One of his staples is to slide in just above high post/elbow and see how the defense reacts. If no defenders react and his teammates aren't doing anything, he takes that shot. As a few of those go in, he can start running fakes off that movement for others in following possessions. He can start to draw defenders towards him and make something happen for others. That's one of the ways he plays. But too often, the next three possessions are led by someone else this year. So, he can't set those up. Because right now, this team hasn't been treating him like a PG or leader. So no some of you see him do that each time he occasionally gets onball and think, this is all he's going to do? There isn't much else for him to do besides driving the rim wild and blowing a possession because that's not where his best skills lay. Rubio doesn't do it either. Rubio drives around the paint if he must. Now someone like Edwards who was Hyped as a 3 level scorer should be able to do more of that more easily but he's not because he's a bit of a scared rookie yet. But we are still allowing him to run point anyway, just none of you are complaining that he's not doing much different than Dlo. Culver has tried, but his focus is only on himself just trying to get there yet. Edwards had one, one possession of a drive and kick against Wizards and it worked grreat. Hope to see more. But that's all she wrote. Count how many of those that have been attempted on less than one hand for him so far.
First game of the season. Who starts? Who came off bench? Rubio started. Dlo came off bench and much of his bench minutes have been playing off. It's just as much or more on these others. Your own graphs above show the negative numbers on Edwards and Culver's time with Dlo. Like I've been saying all along, these are the two the team has been telling to go ahead and lead offensive possessions and it's robbing that role from Dlo, Rubio, Jmac. Surprise, their numbers are highly negative for playing with Dlo who's played more minutes with these guys than Rubio and JMac has.
I don't want to take anything positive away from the others. They haven't been running like clockwork either but maybe Rubio and JMac have played with more determination in their minutes. But they aren't the Max player getting his role usurped by his own coaches right now. As much as Rubio has already seemed disgusted with this so far, he wasn't the incumbent max player getting jilted here. Disgust might be a word when Dlo sees what they have planned for these games.
Right now minutes have fallen as follows (per game - Skipping Towns):
Russell 29 (33,34,20,31,26)
Edwards 25.4 (25,22,28,25,26)
Rubio 24.2 (25,26,18,25,25)
Culver 23.2 (20,19, 29,25,20)
Edwards is playing more than Rubio. Culver as well some times. Now I don't have a breakdown of minutes per role each is handling. I'm going off just what I noticed and players like Edwards and Culver the first four games were major offensive possession leaders. They had the time on the floor to make that possible and cause all this grief we are seeing taking our best options at point out of their best role. That doesn't mean it's been equal, Rubio has played more point then not. But's it's impacted everything. These guys just don't have the experience to lead this much already. They aren't Ja Morant stunning everyone into submission two feet infront of the basket with hand fakes and freeing himself or others up. Their forays into point leading seem closer to how Dlo as a combo guard has learned to get things done. But these guys aren't exactly good at it yet. One day Edwards might actually be a capable 3 level scorer. That time isn't right now yet. Culver actually had some of the most controlled play the first few games but the coaches didn't notice enough to play him more than Edwards. Why? Because they've already decided some of these things before the season started. Just like they decided they would have Edwards and Culver playing point often. Rubio appears to have a 25 minutes ceiling penciled in from this small view of things.
Do you want to see everything improve? Put Dlo back into the drivers seat. Remove Edwards and Culver from leading any possessions ever for the next few months. Start coaching them on how to play offball, how to cut, when to cut and when not to. How to remain an open outlet for Dlo and Rubio, where Dlo will be looking to certain locations and how it will be different for Rubio running things. Let these two points be leaders from Point. After that's establised, it's going to be fine for Dlo to play off ball with Rubio at times. JMac should be sitting unless he's going to replace either Dlo or Rubio due to injury, or they decide to sit one of Culver/Edwards. Have those set plays Rubio talked about designed for the opponent that everyone will be ready for should things get out of hand. Everything will course correct. But hey I'm not a coach and barely know how to describe any of these really basic necessities. I just know they are basic and pretty much a must to correct this unless you are just going to let a true threat like JMac play 38 minutes at point driving, finishing, or kicking like a young Rose/Lillard. Because we don't have anyone else ready enough to lead and play unstructured ball like that. Again, maybe a year or two from now Edwards might. But as you can see, he won't even finish at the net strong yet. He'll show you his shots from 3 feet out though. I really didn't mention Beasley because he can just play his best SG role when Culver/Edwards take up the SF role more times than not. When Towns returns, he and Dlo can work on two man games at times. Rubio will obviously find him plently.
I just don't think they want to do any of this because it's too important to them to show Culver/Ediwards as some kind of young swiss army knives with value right now.