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The D'Angelo Russell Thread

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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#141 » by Jedzz » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:35 pm

PharmD wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
PharmD wrote:Although if I look at nba wowy:

Via NBA WOWY ALL GAMES
Rubio ON/Dlo OFF: 126.7 ORTG/110.9 DRTG in 50 minutes. (Rubio +15.8 with no DLo)

Dlo ON/Rubio OFF: is 87 ORTG/ 115.5 DRTG in 73 minutes. (DLo -28.5 with no Rubio)

We are getting killed whenever D'Angelo is on the court. It's definitely better when he plays with Rubio but still "get blown out every game" level of bad.
\\

I think this is the definition of using numbers to feed your prior thoughts. Neither of you are looking at this with any depth. Go ahead and argue about your numbers not being the same. They are both meaningless as to why one of our better players is struggling to play his best ball and yet also ending up on the floor often not controlling possesions as well and taking the plus/minus hit for those as well.

I'll give you one of the bazillion reasons your numbers are useless to talk about right now. Rubio was basically pulled out of early blowout losses where his vaunted plus/minus would likely tank with everyone elses during those extra minutes no matter if he has played well in other moments or not.

I would say that it's using numbers to describe what we're seeing. I doubt anyone went from "I thought D'Angelo was playing well but then i looked at the numbers and realized he wasn't!" We can all see how terribly D'Angelo is playing. The numbers are just a (fun) way to describe that level of awfulness.

And also it's a way to head-off the people that want to be contrarians and spin a tale of it being not-D'Angelo's fault (such as the post i responded to that started this).


No. Just no. You are using the data to attempt to prove something that it doesn't account for.

So many reasons why using plus/minus usually doesn't work to compare different players and why in this case, on this team right now it's meaningless. I gave you one reason and you won't even acknowledge it. Rubio was allowed in essense to hide his aggregated plus/minus from the majority of blow out minutes because coaches pulled him out.

But maybe we should talk about how plus/minus even works and their minutes together and how exactly you expect them to be so different while broken down to exactly while they were both on the court together. You showed:

(Rubio +15.8 with no DLo)
(DLo -28.5 with no Rubio)

What is Dlo when playing with Rubio, and what is Rubio when playing with DLo.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#142 » by PharmD » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:47 pm

Jedzz wrote:
PharmD wrote:
Jedzz wrote:\\

I think this is the definition of using numbers to feed your prior thoughts. Neither of you are looking at this with any depth. Go ahead and argue about your numbers not being the same. They are both meaningless as to why one of our better players is struggling to play his best ball and yet also ending up on the floor often not controlling possesions as well and taking the plus/minus hit for those as well.

I'll give you one of the bazillion reasons your numbers are useless to talk about right now. Rubio was basically pulled out of early blowout losses where his vaunted plus/minus would likely tank with everyone elses during those extra minutes no matter if he has played well in other moments or not.

I would say that it's using numbers to describe what we're seeing. I doubt anyone went from "I thought D'Angelo was playing well but then i looked at the numbers and realized he wasn't!" We can all see how terribly D'Angelo is playing. The numbers are just a (fun) way to describe that level of awfulness.

And also it's a way to head-off the people that want to be contrarians and spin a tale of it being not-D'Angelo's fault (such as the post i responded to that started this).


No. Just no. You are using the data to attempt to prove something that it doesn't account for.

So many reasons why using plus/minus usually doesn't work to compare different players and why in this case, on this team right now it's meaningless. I gave you one reason and you won't even acknowledge it. Rubio was allowed in essense to hide his aggregated plus/minus from the majority of blow out minutes because coaches pulled him out.

But maybe we should talk about how plus/minus even works and their minutes together and how exactly you expect them to be so different while broken down to exactly while they were both on the court together.

You seem to think that you're on to something here. I assume you are talking about the Clippers game where Rubio didn't play as much as DLo (he played 26 minutes to DLo's 31)? In the Lakers game DLo played 20 to Ricky's 18 minutes. They both played 25 minutes in this last game. Are you trying to argue that Ricky wasn't in there for the minutes that we lost by the most, while DLo was? THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT!!

Heck, those extra garbage time minutes were DLo's best minutes of the season. He scored 14 points and made 4 consecutive threes, the last of which cut the lead to 25.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#143 » by Jedzz » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:59 pm

PharmD wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
PharmD wrote:I would say that it's using numbers to describe what we're seeing. I doubt anyone went from "I thought D'Angelo was playing well but then i looked at the numbers and realized he wasn't!" We can all see how terribly D'Angelo is playing. The numbers are just a (fun) way to describe that level of awfulness.

And also it's a way to head-off the people that want to be contrarians and spin a tale of it being not-D'Angelo's fault (such as the post i responded to that started this).


No. Just no. You are using the data to attempt to prove something that it doesn't account for.

So many reasons why using plus/minus usually doesn't work to compare different players and why in this case, on this team right now it's meaningless. I gave you one reason and you won't even acknowledge it. Rubio was allowed in essense to hide his aggregated plus/minus from the majority of blow out minutes because coaches pulled him out.

But maybe we should talk about how plus/minus even works and their minutes together and how exactly you expect them to be so different while broken down to exactly while they were both on the court together.

You seem to think that you're on to something here. I assume you are talking about the Clippers game where Rubio didn't play as much as DLo (he played 26 minutes to DLo's 31)? In the Lakers game DLo played 20 to Ricky's 18 minutes. They both played 25 minutes in this last game. Are you trying to argue that Ricky wasn't in there for the minutes that we lost by the most, while DLo was? THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT!!

Heck, those extra garbage time minutes were DLo's best minutes of the season. He scored 14 points and made 4 consecutive threes, the last of which cut the lead to 25.


I see you aren't going to quote my whole post and post the numbers for the two while both playing together.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#144 » by PharmD » Sat Jan 2, 2021 11:31 pm

Jedzz wrote:
PharmD wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
No. Just no. You are using the data to attempt to prove something that it doesn't account for.

So many reasons why using plus/minus usually doesn't work to compare different players and why in this case, on this team right now it's meaningless. I gave you one reason and you won't even acknowledge it. Rubio was allowed in essense to hide his aggregated plus/minus from the majority of blow out minutes because coaches pulled him out.

But maybe we should talk about how plus/minus even works and their minutes together and how exactly you expect them to be so different while broken down to exactly while they were both on the court together.

You seem to think that you're on to something here. I assume you are talking about the Clippers game where Rubio didn't play as much as DLo (he played 26 minutes to DLo's 31)? In the Lakers game DLo played 20 to Ricky's 18 minutes. They both played 25 minutes in this last game. Are you trying to argue that Ricky wasn't in there for the minutes that we lost by the most, while DLo was? THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT!!

Heck, those extra garbage time minutes were DLo's best minutes of the season. He scored 14 points and made 4 consecutive threes, the last of which cut the lead to 25.


I see you aren't going to quote my whole post and post the numbers for the two while both playing together.

I assume you edited?

Anyway, you said:
But maybe we should talk about how plus/minus even works and their minutes together and how exactly you expect them to be so different while broken down to exactly while they were both on the court together. You showed:

(Rubio +15.8 with no DLo)
(DLo -28.5 with no Rubio)

What is Dlo when playing with Rubio, and what is Rubio when playing with DLo.

DLo is probably playing more off-guard when playing with Rubio, and probably Rubio is playing more off-ball when playing with DLo.

So as we've shown, DLo (or the lineups including DLo to be more exact) has been much better when playing WITH Rubio (-17.2 with Rubio, -28.5 without him). So he should play more off-guard? I am absolutely down with more JMac minutes.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#145 » by PharmD » Sat Jan 2, 2021 11:54 pm

And to the "Who is he playing with?" questions, notice that every single player in our top 10 in minutes has played better with Rubio than DLo:

Image

Only 7% of the season is gone but DLo has been terrible, and by far the most terrible player on the roster, so far. HOPEFULLY THIS CHANGES. We're all cheering for the timberwolves here and the wolves can only be good if DLo plays like an NBA level a good player.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#146 » by Devilzsidewalk » Sun Jan 3, 2021 12:48 am

I just want to see him sprint. Every other guard will plod and probe but when they see their opening, they kick it into high gear. But since driving to the basket isn't on D'Lo's menu, we almost never see him leave second gear. He plays like he's trying to break the record for fewest amount of calories burned in an NBA game
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#147 » by Note30 » Sun Jan 3, 2021 12:49 am

PharmD wrote:And to the "Who is he playing with?" questions, notice that every single player in our top 10 in minutes has played better with Rubio than DLo:

Image

Only 7% of the season is gone but DLo has been terrible, and by far the most terrible player on the roster, so far. HOPEFULLY THIS CHANGES. We're all cheering for the timberwolves here and the wolves can only be good if DLo plays like an NBA level a good player.


Resign RHJ

Move Dlo him to a SG position, bring Beas off the bench, Culver/Edwards SF, and play jmac more. At the trade deadline trade Beas and Okogie for a starting caliber PF.

Like a Siakam or something. If we lose this years pick in one of the more deeper drafts for nada we will be a laughing stock. (not that we arent already)

When Towns gets back we could push for the playoffs

Rubio / jMac
DLo / Beas
Culver / Edwards
RHJ / JHG
Reid / Vanderbilt
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#148 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 3, 2021 1:40 am

Note30 wrote:
PharmD wrote:And to the "Who is he playing with?" questions, notice that every single player in our top 10 in minutes has played better with Rubio than DLo:

Image

Only 7% of the season is gone but DLo has been terrible, and by far the most terrible player on the roster, so far. HOPEFULLY THIS CHANGES. We're all cheering for the timberwolves here and the wolves can only be good if DLo plays like an NBA level a good player.


Resign RHJ

Move Dlo him to a SG position, bring Beas off the bench, Culver/Edwards SF, and play jmac more. At the trade deadline trade Beas and Okogie for a starting caliber PF.

Like a Siakam or something. If we lose this years pick in one of the more deeper drafts for nada we will be a laughing stock. (not that we arent already)

When Towns gets back we could push for the playoffs

Rubio / jMac
DLo / Beas
Culver / Edwards
RHJ / JHG
Reid / Vanderbilt


He's already been playing off ball defacto SG. this isn't the issue.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#149 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 3, 2021 1:43 am

Devilzsidewalk wrote:I just want to see him sprint. Every other guard will plod and probe but when they see their opening, they kick it into high gear. But since driving to the basket isn't on D'Lo's menu, we almost never see him leave second gear. He plays like he's trying to break the record for fewest amount of calories burned in an NBA game


Dlo is a smooth athlete. He plays with subtle changes of speed and ball handling. I can see where to some it looks like he's not trying. But it's not the case. Maybe it even looks moreso when you have players like Okogie and Beasley that have that bit of wreckless speed going all the team. But compare them to JMac who can move even quicker and and you will see a player who at times moves a bit like Dlo and then at a drop of a hat he bursts. These players are all different.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#150 » by Folklore » Sun Jan 3, 2021 2:01 am

D'angelo will be the next Raymond Felton.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#151 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 3, 2021 2:21 am

PharmD wrote:
Jedzz wrote:...post the numbers for the two while both playing together.

I assume you edited?

Anyway, you said:
But maybe we should talk about how plus/minus even works and their minutes together and how exactly you expect them to be so different while broken down to exactly while they were both on the court together. You showed:

(Rubio +15.8 with no DLo)
(DLo -28.5 with no Rubio)

What is Dlo when playing with Rubio, and what is Rubio when playing with DLo.

DLo is probably playing more off-guard when playing with Rubio, and probably Rubio is playing more off-ball when playing with DLo.

So, not sure if you wanted it worded that way, but I don't see it working both ways. One has run point more than the other while together.

Post the numbers for both players while playing together. The numbers should be exactly the same. Of course posting that doesn't sell a narrative right? Further, when Dlo is playing off guard he's less in control of how the team performs offensively. But really that would sort of go towards your point while Rubio and he play together Dlo is just a wing. The part that doesn't is that he's also had to play plenty of off ball SG roles and aimless wing roles when playing with others. Who's more responsible for the offensive possession when Edwards or Culver is onball? It's not Dlo if they never got him involved.

I'm no coach and barely know how to say these things.
There are no set plays happening with these guys that I notice. So the Wings are just aimless or working off what the defenders are allowing, or stationary corner statues when one of our PGs are offball or everyone I guess is in 5 out. Edwards goes in iso mode, he calls his own number and jacks a brick. Is that Dlo's fault? Beasley drives in against the Wizards and just loses the ball while dribbling. That Dlo's fault? Culver calls his own number and misses the shot. Is that Dlo's fault? Dude never touched the ball, never led any of these possessions. But he'll take the strike just the same. I'm just recalling a few from memory last game but the examples are endless. When Dlo has had control, walks the ball up, has the decision to make, he's more or less playing like Edwards right now because too many of them like Culver/Edwards aren't playing with him. So he's just trying to carry with his shots. One of his staples is to slide in just above high post/elbow and see how the defense reacts. If no defenders react and his teammates aren't doing anything, he takes that shot. As a few of those go in, he can start running fakes off that movement for others in following possessions. He can start to draw defenders towards him and make something happen for others. That's one of the ways he plays. But too often, the next three possessions are led by someone else this year. So, he can't set those up. Because right now, this team hasn't been treating him like a PG or leader. So no some of you see him do that each time he occasionally gets onball and think, this is all he's going to do? There isn't much else for him to do besides driving the rim wild and blowing a possession because that's not where his best skills lay. Rubio doesn't do it either. Rubio drives around the paint if he must. Now someone like Edwards who was Hyped as a 3 level scorer should be able to do more of that more easily but he's not because he's a bit of a scared rookie yet. But we are still allowing him to run point anyway, just none of you are complaining that he's not doing much different than Dlo. Culver has tried, but his focus is only on himself just trying to get there yet. Edwards had one, one possession of a drive and kick against Wizards and it worked grreat. Hope to see more. But that's all she wrote. Count how many of those that have been attempted on less than one hand for him so far.

First game of the season. Who starts? Who came off bench? Rubio started. Dlo came off bench and much of his bench minutes have been playing off. It's just as much or more on these others. Your own graphs above show the negative numbers on Edwards and Culver's time with Dlo. Like I've been saying all along, these are the two the team has been telling to go ahead and lead offensive possessions and it's robbing that role from Dlo, Rubio, Jmac. Surprise, their numbers are highly negative for playing with Dlo who's played more minutes with these guys than Rubio and JMac has.

I don't want to take anything positive away from the others. They haven't been running like clockwork either but maybe Rubio and JMac have played with more determination in their minutes. But they aren't the Max player getting his role usurped by his own coaches right now. As much as Rubio has already seemed disgusted with this so far, he wasn't the incumbent max player getting jilted here. Disgust might be a word when Dlo sees what they have planned for these games.

Right now minutes have fallen as follows (per game - Skipping Towns):
Russell 29 (33,34,20,31,26)
Beasley 28.8
Edwards 25.4 (25,22,28,25,26)
Rubio 24.2 (25,26,18,25,25)
Culver 23.2 (20,19, 29,25,20)

Edwards is playing more than Rubio. Culver as well some times. Now I don't have a breakdown of minutes per role each is handling. I'm going off just what I noticed and players like Edwards and Culver the first four games were major offensive possession leaders. They had the time on the floor to make that possible and cause all this grief we are seeing taking our best options at point out of their best role. That doesn't mean it's been equal, Rubio has played more point then not. But's it's impacted everything. These guys just don't have the experience to lead this much already. They aren't Ja Morant stunning everyone into submission two feet infront of the basket with hand fakes and freeing himself or others up. Their forays into point leading seem closer to how Dlo as a combo guard has learned to get things done. But these guys aren't exactly good at it yet. One day Edwards might actually be a capable 3 level scorer. That time isn't right now yet. Culver actually had some of the most controlled play the first few games but the coaches didn't notice enough to play him more than Edwards. Why? Because they've already decided some of these things before the season started. Just like they decided they would have Edwards and Culver playing point often. Rubio appears to have a 25 minutes ceiling penciled in from this small view of things.

Do you want to see everything improve? Put Dlo back into the drivers seat. Remove Edwards and Culver from leading any possessions ever for the next few months. Start coaching them on how to play offball, how to cut, when to cut and when not to. How to remain an open outlet for Dlo and Rubio, where Dlo will be looking to certain locations and how it will be different for Rubio running things. Let these two points be leaders from Point. After that's establised, it's going to be fine for Dlo to play off ball with Rubio at times. JMac should be sitting unless he's going to replace either Dlo or Rubio due to injury, or they decide to sit one of Culver/Edwards. Have those set plays Rubio talked about designed for the opponent that everyone will be ready for should things get out of hand. Everything will course correct. But hey I'm not a coach and barely know how to describe any of these really basic necessities. I just know they are basic and pretty much a must to correct this unless you are just going to let a true threat like JMac play 38 minutes at point driving, finishing, or kicking like a young Rose/Lillard. Because we don't have anyone else ready enough to lead and play unstructured ball like that. Again, maybe a year or two from now Edwards might. But as you can see, he won't even finish at the net strong yet. He'll show you his shots from 3 feet out though. I really didn't mention Beasley because he can just play his best SG role when Culver/Edwards take up the SF role more times than not. When Towns returns, he and Dlo can work on two man games at times. Rubio will obviously find him plently.

I just don't think they want to do any of this because it's too important to them to show Culver/Ediwards as some kind of young swiss army knives with value right now.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#152 » by PharmD » Sun Jan 3, 2021 2:58 am

Post the numbers for both players while playing together. The numbers should be exactly the same. Of course posting that doesn't sell a narrative right?


Reading my posts on the last page I clearly say that Rubio + DLo is -21 in 61 minutes. Their net rating is -17.2. Check out the posts from 4:31 and 4:39. I thought I made the point pretty clearly that lineups with DLo are doing even worse when they don't contain Rubio while lineups with Rubio are doing much better when they don't contain DLo.

We're getting killed right now but we're especially getting killed whenever D'Angelo Russell is in the game. We're losing by more than a point per minute when DLo is in the game over the last 3.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#153 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:30 am

PharmD wrote:
Post the numbers for both players while playing together. The numbers should be exactly the same. Of course posting that doesn't sell a narrative right?


Reading my posts on the last page I clearly say that Rubio + DLo is -21 in 61 minutes. Their net rating is -17.2. Check out the posts from 4:31 and 4:39. I thought I made the point pretty clearly that lineups with DLo are doing even worse when they don't contain Rubio while lineups with Rubio are doing much better when they don't contain DLo.

We're getting killed right now but we're especially getting killed whenever D'Angelo Russell is in the game. We're losing by more than a point per minute when DLo is in the game over the last 3.


Take him out of the game bro. Sure, removing one player from the logjam is going to help. Especially the one that has gotten the most minutes without a solid leadership role allowed to him. But it won't be Rubio really benefitting like some of you believe. It's not like these others are going to instantly play more efficiently. Rubio's time will be kept nearly in check close to the same and they will either just play JMac more or they will inflate the time for Edwards/Culver and they will be onball even more. JMac watching from a corner and Beasley handling SF roving action even more oh won't we be excited.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#154 » by 6ers83 » Sun Jan 3, 2021 4:07 am

He’s trash
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#155 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 3, 2021 4:41 am

moved to Edwards thread
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#156 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 3, 2021 4:52 am

6ers83 wrote:He’s trash
Simmons is trash? That's a little harsh bro.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#157 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 3, 2021 6:04 am

i say bench him. Everyone here sold me. Fought as long as I could. I don't think he wants any part of playing Edwards ball.

But when you do, what happens when Towns comes back and he's got to play with Edwards leading so many possessions? Will anyone survive this?
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#158 » by shangrila » Sun Jan 3, 2021 7:40 am

I think we all know he's capable of playing better. Maybe not All NBA level but far better than what we're getting. So I do think it's a little early to throw in the towel, especially with everything going on.

That said, there needs to be changes. They need to get him into a rhythm. He's spoken on it and I can buy that flip flopping between playing on and off ball is messing with him. They need to pick a position for him and play him there the majority of the time. If it's PG, send Rubio back to the bench. If it's SG, send Beasley to the bench. Nothing against either of those guys but we need Russell to produce.

And I'm about to contradict myself a little but they also need to start benching him, and anyone else, if the defensive level isn't there. At every position, except for maybe C, there's a guy that you can convince me will if nothing else put in effort defensively. Even if we literally scrape the bottom of the barrel and run a McLaughlin-Hagans-Nowell-McDaniels-Vanderbilt lineup, atleast we might see some fight on one end of the court.

Finally, and this is a general comment, I think this team is far more of a work in progress than we might think. As much as I like Beasley, a no defence shooter is not the kind of player you want starting alongside DLo. As much as I like Rubio, again, he's not the kind of player you want starting next to DLo. The forward positions are both a mess with some long term upside that likely won't help us in the short term (Edwards and McDaniels). Our defence is terrible, the roster isn't good enough shooting 3s to justify the offensive system we're trying to run and there's serious lack of accountability that I'm not sure how we fix. The saddest part is I think Towns actually did turn a corner this year and so when the inevitable trade demand comes he'll be the kind of productive player for someone else that we always knew he could have been for us.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#159 » by Merc_Porto » Sun Jan 3, 2021 8:57 am

One thing i mention and that's what happends when we create a logjam in the guard positions is that all started with the idea of playing Rubio - Dlo together.

To start that was already a problem, why?
Because the ball needs to be in his hands (Dlo) more while playing the 1-3-1 you need a capable shooter bla bla bla (this was discussed before the Rubio traded happen)
All of this knowing that Rubio was by far the better player than Dlo in pretty much every single category. Especially the one that says... $17M >>> $30M

But then to complicate even more this problem you pay big money to Beasley and draft Edwards. Just brilliant. It took 3-4 games for people to realize the obvious thing. Rubio is so much better than Dlo and at same time you can't bench Dlo because he's the 'star' (BFF) and he's paid star money. So you slide Beasley to play as some type of SF role and Culver (another guard) to play as PF or something like that.

This is genius man. Just genius.
All of this could have been inevitable with a more balanced roster.

How predictable was this?! Seriously.
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Re: The D'Angelo Russell Thread 

Post#160 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 3, 2021 10:26 am

mercgold3 wrote:One thing i mention and that's what happends when we create a logjam in the guard positions is that all started with the idea of playing Rubio - Dlo together.

To start that was already a problem, why?
Because the ball needs to be in his hands (Dlo) more while playing the 1-3-1 you need a capable shooter bla bla bla (this was discussed before the Rubio traded happen)
All of this knowing that Rubio was by far the better player than Dlo in pretty much every single category. Especially the one that says... $17M >>> $30M

But then to complicate even more this problem you pay big money to Beasley and draft Edwards. Just brilliant. It took 3-4 games for people to realize the obvious thing. Rubio is so much better than Dlo and at same time you can't bench Dlo because he's the 'star' (BFF) and he's paid star money. So you slide Beasley to play as some type of SF role and Culver (another guard) to play as PF or something like that.

This is genius man. Just genius.
All of this could have been inevitable avoided with a more balanced roster.

How predictable was this?! Seriously.


Right? it's completely inevitable. To add insult to injury they run Culver back to lead some possesions at PG right from preseason on, and allow Edwards to run point on possessions as if he just stepped off the plane from Georgia. Why would you do this when you have Dlo and Rubio already in a pickle of who gets more point time? To make it a bloodbath, they finally sign Jmac to a second year of two way contract after camp and preseason is done so he has no prep with the team but launch him into the rotation after the first two wins for 16-24 mins of play because...they had such a dire need for more point guards on ball or guards to play off ball?

Can't wait to read about this in a future article or book that looks back to explain what all was suppsoe to have occured already by now or what is about to go down to explain all this. The Harden move still looms...Might have to wait until the dates occur that allows more players to be moved in this.

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