The D'Angelo Russell Thread

[winforlose]

Technically, we will be less than $120M next season with a $134M cap and DLo, Nowell, Reid, Forbes, Rivers, Garza, and Paschall unsigned. If we are worried about not losing the DLo salary spot, we theoretically could use out Bird exceptions to re-sign Nowell and Reid to large contracts, let DLo walk, and not lose the spot.

You are half right. To keep the salary slot we do need a player or players to make the same/similar money. But, if you overpay a player they can become a negative asset and untradeable without giving picks or young talented players. Also, if they represent too small a slice of the slot, then you can only move the slot by moving both players. Lastly, outside of vet minimums and tax payer MLE’s, bird rights are the best way of maintaining or improving talent. If we let Dlo leave and lose his bird rights, then we have limited replacement resources. If we are then forced to move both Nowell and Naz at some point to bring in a max player, now we have even fewer players and more depth holes to be plugged with cheap talent. I don’t think you truly understand the situation we are in.

[winforlose]

Separate question. Has anyone listened to this episode of the Doogie podcast?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/269050/Wolves-Not-Interested-In-Extending-DAngelo-Russell

It seems unlikely that the Wolves plan to let him walk at the end. Maybe they won’t negotiate a number starting with a 3, but I doubt they won’t even consider an extension.

[Biff Cooper]

Thought experiment. Pretend the following are Dlo’s numbers. Assume there is some inflation due to this being a contract year, but also some natural elevation from playing with the upgraded roster.

Dlo averages: 15PPG, 4 RPG, 10APG, 44% FG, 36% 3P%, 80% FT%, 3.5 TO, 1 STL, and .3 BLK. He plays 60 games and all playoff games. 5 missed games are planned rest while healthy, and 3 are Covid mandated misses.

What do you pay and for how many years?

How many championships in a row have we won?

At most one as it is this season. I gave you the stats you know he will have this year for this conversation. If you are saying his playoff performance and our playoff outcome affects the number that is valid. But, that also means he didn’t get extended during the season, and might be playing timid (trying to avoid injury,) during the playoffs.

I'm not going to play a bunch of hypotheticals. Just saying that if we win a championship, there is a lot better chance that we run it all back again next season, luxury tax and all. Obviously you don't just pay Nowell or Reid way more than they are worth just to save a salary slot. The same should also be said for DLo. My point was we are not locked into DLo being our third big salary. With Nowell and Reid Bird rights and Edwards and McDaniels getting closer to needing bumps in pay, some decisions need to be made, and letting DLo walk will be on the table for consideration.

[winforlose]

How many championships in a row have we won?

At most one as it is this season. I gave you the stats you know he will have this year for this conversation. If you are saying his playoff performance and our playoff outcome affects the number that is valid. But, that also means he didn’t get extended during the season, and might be playing timid (trying to avoid injury,) during the playoffs.

I'm not going to play a bunch of hypotheticals. Just saying that if we win a championship, there is a lot better chance that we run it all back again next season, luxury tax and all. Obviously you don't just pay Nowell or Reid way more than they are worth just to save a salary slot. The same should also be said for DLo. My point was we are not locked into DLo being our third big salary. With Nowell and Reid Bird rights and Edwards and McDaniels getting closer to needing bumps in pay, some decisions need to be made, and letting DLo walk will be on the table for consideration.

I think you misunderstood. My point is that the salary slots for Nowell and Reid have value as well. To let Dlo go is to waste the most important salary slot. If you then have to waste both the Nowell and Reid slots to salvage the Dlo slot then you come out way behind. You got worse at 2 or 3 of 10 rotation spots just to save money. Like it or not the Gobert trade made Dlo the PG of the future. We should overpay him (within reason,) because we cannot and simply will not get anyone better in the next 4 years. It was a huge miscalculation by the POBO to finalize the trade before dealing or extending Dlo.

Even if we follow your suggestion and extend the other 2 while letting Dlo walk, we have the MLE (maybe the tax payer MLE depending on extension sizes,) to replace Dlo. Tell me, running it back an MLE replacement for Dlo, does that improve our title odds or lower them?

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Separate question. Has anyone listened to this episode of the Doogie podcast?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/269050/Wolves-Not-Interested-In-Extending-DAngelo-Russell

It seems unlikely that the Wolves plan to let him walk at the end. Maybe they won’t negotiate a number starting with a 3, but I doubt they won’t even consider an extension.

Maybe get a first for him? With Jmac and ant extensions coming up, dlo is expendable. Especially when you don’t know what dlo is going to show up each game. Hopefully he plays up to his value and we can keep him throughout the season?

[Biff Cooper]

Perhaps. Sometimes teams get better by getting rid of higher priced veterans and letting younger players step up to a larger role. It is not always a step back to not sign a vet.

If you think Minnesota is opening the checkbook for DLo and then keeping it open for Nowell, Reid, Ant, and McDaniels (or an equivalent salary player), just because they don't want to lose an asset, then you are living in dream land. This is not GS. Minnesota is going to have to make some decisions on who gets paid and who doesn't. Overpaying DLo will have an opportunity cost down the road.

[winforlose]

Perhaps. Sometimes teams get better by getting rid of higher priced veterans and letting younger players step up to a larger role. It is not always a step back to not sign a vet.

If you think Minnesota is opening the checkbook for DLo and then keeping it open for Nowell, Reid, Ant, and McDaniels (or an equivalent salary player), just because they don't want to lose an asset, then you are living in dream land. This is not GS. Minnesota is going to have to make some decisions on who gets paid and who doesn't. Overpaying DLo will have an opportunity cost down the road.

This is also for @D1SGRUNTL3D I just don’t see it. First, JMAC is nowhere near starting quality. He is an inferior shooter and spacer who will have big problems playing real minutes with Rudy. Second, his man defense is beyond poor. JMAC makes Dlo look like Roco or McDaniels by comparison. The little ninja steals are nice, but that is all he is good for defensively. Third, Moore is not a natural PG and we aren’t exactly developing the next big PG in Iowa. We don’t even have a legit 3rd string PG on the team. We use Ant (who refuses to pass or facilitate in the preseason finale,) and Nowell (a guy who they didn’t have run the offense when he played with Ant,) neither of whom can maximize Rudy. The best thing about point Nowell is his PNR game, but I don’t necessarily see us promoting Nowell to starting PG next year and losing the bench scoring.

We built a roster around the GSW model. We need to think and act like GSW or the franchise is doomed. You cannot give up that much draft capital and plan to get weaker every year. We are going into the super tax. A new stadium and the kind of profit the new owners want is built around a contender, not a first round and done team. Addition by subtraction doesn’t work with your 3rd or 4th best player. Unless of course you undervalue Dlo and ignore the fact that we don’t even get close to the first round without him last year.

[Biff Cooper]

We built a roster around the GSW model. We need to think and act like GSW or the franchise is doomed. You cannot give up that much draft capital and plan to get weaker every year. We are going into the super tax. A new stadium and the kind of profit the new owners want is built around a contender, not a first round and done team. Addition by subtraction doesn’t work with your 3rd or 4th best player. Unless of course you undervalue Dlo and ignore the fact that we don’t even get close to the first round without him last year.

Nobody except GSW have built a roster around their model. If Dlo is our 3rd or 4th best player on the team at the end of this season, you obviously extend him. If he is the 5th or 6th best player on the court on the roster at the end of the season, you really can't be continuing to pay him like he is an all-star at the risk of not being able to pay Ant and the other one or two players who passed him.

[winforlose]

We built a roster around the GSW model. We need to think and act like GSW or the franchise is doomed. You cannot give up that much draft capital and plan to get weaker every year. We are going into the super tax. A new stadium and the kind of profit the new owners want is built around a contender, not a first round and done team. Addition by subtraction doesn’t work with your 3rd or 4th best player. Unless of course you undervalue Dlo and ignore the fact that we don’t even get close to the first round without him last year.

Nobody except GSW have built a roster around their model. If Dlo is our 3rd or 4th best player on the team at the end of this season, you obviously extend him. If he is the 5th or 6th best player on the court on the roster at the end of the season, you really can't be continuing to pay him like he is an all-star at the risk of not being able to pay Ant and the other one or two players who passed him.

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/

Look at all those teams whose payrolls are exploding. If you don’t think they are building on a model to keep adding salary so as to both retain and acquire talent, then I don’t know how you think they are doing it.

[Klomp]

I think there's a chance we go into the lux tax in upcoming years despite the large payout. It would be a large statement for the new ownership group to make, but it's one that would elevate us to a place where few owners have been willing to go. It might be the advantage we need to overcome our small northern market hindrances.

[shrink]

I was frustrated to see RealGM’s Wiretap mislead people again with an article saying that the “Wolves won’t extend DLo,” when I listened to the podcast and I think they were pretty clear that Windhorst and Doogie were saying, “Wolves won’t extend DLo YET.”

[winforlose]

I was frustrated to see RealGM’s Wiretap mislead people again with an article saying that the “Wolves won’t extend DLo,” when I listened to the podcast and I think they were pretty clear that Windhorst and Doogie were saying, “Wolves won’t extend DLo YET.”

That’s what I thought. I didn’t listen to the pod, but that was always the story this offseason.

[TimberKat]

GSW are projected to paid $483M Tax next year. Any chance we pull off a DsLOw for Clay trade? Getting out of Clay's 2023 40+Mil salary would get them under tax line. I think Clay is on the decline and Wiggins+Poole+their other young players would replace him. For Twolves, I think Clay is an upgrade from DsLOw.

[winforlose]

GSW are projected to paid $483M Tax next year. Any chance we pull off a DsLOw for Clay trade? Getting out of Clay's 2023 40+Mil salary would get them under tax line. I think Clay is on the decline and Wiggins+Poole+their other young players would replace him. For Twolves, I think Clay is an upgrade from DsLOw.

I like the idea of trading for CJ McCollum. Dlo would be a better facilitator for them. Meanwhile CJ is a more consistent shooter for us. Throw in Naz for X to sweeten the pot (assuming Hayes is a bust or they want to play him at the PF.)

[fattymcgee]

GSW are projected to paid $483M Tax next year. Any chance we pull off a DsLOw for Clay trade? Getting out of Clay's 2023 40+Mil salary would get them under tax line. I think Clay is on the decline and Wiggins+Poole+their other young players would replace him. For Twolves, I think Clay is an upgrade from DsLOw.

I like the idea of trading for CJ McCollum. Dlo would be a better facilitator for them. Meanwhile CJ is a more consistent shooter for us. Throw in Naz for X to sweeten the pot (assuming Hayes is a bust or they want to play him at the PF.)

N.O. loves CJ and they already have point Zion and Ingram controls the ball a lot.

[winforlose]

GSW are projected to paid $483M Tax next year. Any chance we pull off a DsLOw for Clay trade? Getting out of Clay's 2023 40+Mil salary would get them under tax line. I think Clay is on the decline and Wiggins+Poole+their other young players would replace him. For Twolves, I think Clay is an upgrade from DsLOw.

I like the idea of trading for CJ McCollum. Dlo would be a better facilitator for them. Meanwhile CJ is a more consistent shooter for us. Throw in Naz for X to sweeten the pot (assuming Hayes is a bust or they want to play him at the PF.)

N.O. loves CJ and they already have point Zion and Ingram controls the ball a lot.

Agree about Ingram, not sure about point Zion, probably true that CJ not available. If the Blazers suck this year they will likely trade Dame. I am not crazy enough to think we can afford him, (I wish, but it is unlikely as all get out.) But, his moving could mean another teams PG becomes available. Maybe 3 or 4 teams get involved and maybe we are one. At the very least it might create something interesting in the buyout market.

I think we end up extending Dlo for 3 years at around 100. I think we suck it up because his play improves and because we lack leverage. Maybe we get lucky and that number is closer to 90. It isn’t the contract he deserves, but again, I don’t see ownership trading for Rudy then dodging the tax. With Dlo, Ant, MCD, KAT, and Rudy we are a contender. Start subtracting and we aren’t anymore.

[Klomp]

I recommend everyone listen to today's Dane Moore episode from his live show with Jon K last night. About an hour in, they had a long discussion surrounding the Russell contract situation.

[KGdaBom]

I recommend everyone listen to today's Dane Moore episode from his live show with Jon K last night. About an hour in, they had a long discussion surrounding the Russell contract situation.

Listening now.

[winforlose]

I recommend everyone listen to today's Dane Moore episode from his live show with Jon K last night. About an hour in, they had a long discussion surrounding the Russell contract situation.

He and I have been saying the same thing for a good while now. The salary slot MUST not be allowed to be lost. We also will NEVER replace Dlo for the MLE, much less the tax payer MLE. Tyus just got 15 mil to be a solid backup PG.

[Klomp]

I recommend everyone listen to today's Dane Moore episode from his live show with Jon K last night. About an hour in, they had a long discussion surrounding the Russell contract situation.

He and I have been saying the same thing for a good while now. The salary slot MUST not be allowed to be lost. We also will NEVER replace Dlo for the MLE, much less the tax payer MLE. Tyus just got 15 mil to be a solid backup PG.

HOWEVER, there is also really no incentive to get it done soon, which they said as well.