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Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET

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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#41 » by winforlose » Sun Mar 8, 2020 10:34 pm

Jedzz wrote:
winforlose wrote:
_AIJ_ wrote:Wow **** these referees to hell man


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If I were Ryan I would be in the locker room after screaming at these refs and getting tossed. I imagine my coaching staff would all be joining me at some point.


He really should. Take some fines and make a stink of it all for once. The NBA wants Pelicans in playoffs I suppose. Very ugly this game. The noncalls might be the worst.


They show a bunch of replays where we are getting fouled before the shot, during the shot, and during the rebound, with no call. This was a game where you honestly wonder if Vegas was involved.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#42 » by Jedzz » Sun Mar 8, 2020 10:45 pm

minimus wrote:
Read on Twitter


Jedzz, rejoice bro!


think so?
Jedzz wrote:
KAT4PREZ wrote:I feel like Nowell will have his career high tonight


Doubt it. Also, Martin's role has been playing SF and helping with size lately. This idea that his minutes free up time for Nowell seems a little disengenuos to me. This maybe only helps Nowell's chances for more time as an overall rotations-wise thing. Culver and Okogie's time stil rules all. Their time likely increases. This is Ryan ball.


Yes I think I called that close. Okogie up to 29 mins, Culver gets his typical 21.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#43 » by Jedzz » Sun Mar 8, 2020 10:47 pm

winforlose wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
winforlose wrote:
If I were Ryan I would be in the locker room after screaming at these refs and getting tossed. I imagine my coaching staff would all be joining me at some point.


He really should. Take some fines and make a stink of it all for once. The NBA wants Pelicans in playoffs I suppose. Very ugly this game. The noncalls might be the worst.


They show a bunch of replays where we are getting fouled before the shot, during the shot, and during the rebound, with no call. This was a game where you honestly wonder if Vegas was involved.


Well when Mclaughlin goes airborn trying to poster someone and every eye in the place has a clear view of the opponent slapping his arm away instead of the ball, it's hard to claim 3 refs can't see it.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#44 » by Calinks » Mon Mar 9, 2020 2:03 am

The defense on this team is so ridiculously bad. It's worse than ever. The only good thing is we are learning this now and the staff can try to address it this summer. There is no way you will be a playoff team playing like this next season, it needs to be magnitudes better. Giant red flag that can't be ignored. I don't know if we have ever had a team that plays as poorly on defense as this one.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#45 » by Calinks » Mon Mar 9, 2020 2:07 am

Russell has been flopping hard lately. He has to step up. Stars got to be better, Holiday dominated this game, Russell needs to get on that level. Quality of play has been fairly lackluster from him lately.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#46 » by Jedzz » Mon Mar 9, 2020 2:29 am

Calinks wrote:Russell has been flopping hard lately. He has to step up. Stars got to be better, Holiday dominated this game, Russell needs to get on that level. Quality of play has been fairly lackluster from him lately.
Holiday is playing SG as much or more than not. Ball and Holday both with 35 mins I think. Maybe compare him to Beas. Part of Holiday's big game came from the kind treatment of the refs in addition to the Wolves allowing any inside shot. 13-20 (65%) today from Jrue.

Dlo is on a shooting slump tho. He's also not being crisp or clean with the ball handling lately. Maybe Dlo is "unconsciously" pushing towards an Atkinson result with the w/l total. Team needs him to be both a decent passer and a really good shooter. Without the team doesn't have enough. JJ was maybe the most effective offensive player today.

Russell was a +10 in the loss today however. A bit strange, but everyone else was also that far under par I guess.
Layman, Culver, Nowell the others in positive during their time.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#47 » by Jedzz » Mon Mar 9, 2020 2:40 am

24% from 3. I suppose I can see them not reaching for their 40 threes (only 33) if they are shooting them that poorly.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#48 » by Jedzz » Mon Mar 9, 2020 2:47 am

Okogie had 3 steals today. Outside of those plays, does anyone want to make the claim he is stopping any guards or forwards from scoring?

Hernangomez I think had a fairly poor game both on offense/defense. A meme of him allowing Jrue an inside basket one play today with a little milk hanging off the words "got defense?" would be perfect. Juancho curled up like a turtle as if Lebron was going to shoulder him. Jrue made the smallest of motions to get that reaction to freeze him up.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#49 » by Jedzz » Mon Mar 9, 2020 3:10 am

Layman mid game asked what they will have to do better to defend inside. He answers "we are undersized, so we will hav-mumble mumble" cut to commercial.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#50 » by winforlose » Mon Mar 9, 2020 4:05 am

Jedzz wrote:Okogie had 3 steals today. Outside of those plays, does anyone want to make the claim he is stopping any guards or forwards from scoring?

Hernangomez I think had a fairly poor game both on offense/defense. A meme of him allowing Jrue an inside basket one play today with a little milk hanging off the words "got defense?" would be perfect. Juancho curled up like a turtle as if Lebron was going to shoulder him. Jrue made the smallest of motions to get that reaction to freeze him up.


Okogie had more than three impactful plays. Just off the top of my head he forced Holiday to step out of bounds. The simple truth is JO is 6’4 and being forced to guard guys 2-4 inches taller. He would have an easier time as backup SG, but his hustle, rebounding, passing, and intangibles make him vital at the moment. If he develops a league average 3 then he could be a starter, otherwise he will be a 6th man next year.

Hernangomez is a lot like KBD. On paper they don’t play the same, but the truth is both struggle off the dribble, both struggle at the rim. Both have defensive trouble (KBD for his speed, Hernangomez for his size and strength,) and both can hit the 3 but have a much higher percentage on catch and shoot. Hernangomez made an excellent case for being a backup 3 or 4 and never starting even when the starter is hurt. If he is fast enough to play the 3 then he should play there, otherwise he backs up whoever starts at 3 next season and if that guy goes down Layman starts and JH backs him up. Meanwhile, Layman moves to backup 3 next season.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#51 » by Klomp » Mon Mar 9, 2020 4:35 am

Just Russell, no Towns: 3-6, .333
Just Towns, no Russell: 10-24, .294
Both Russell and Towns: 0-1
Neither Russell or Towns: 6-12, .333
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#52 » by Jedzz » Mon Mar 9, 2020 5:19 am

winforlose wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Okogie had 3 steals today. Outside of those plays, does anyone want to make the claim he is stopping any guards or forwards from scoring?

Hernangomez I think had a fairly poor game both on offense/defense. A meme of him allowing Jrue an inside basket one play today with a little milk hanging off the words "got defense?" would be perfect. Juancho curled up like a turtle as if Lebron was going to shoulder him. Jrue made the smallest of motions to get that reaction to freeze him up.


Okogie had more than three impactful plays. Just off the top of my head he forced Holiday to step out of bounds. The simple truth is JO is 6’4 and being forced to guard guys 2-4 inches taller. He would have an easier time as backup SG, but his hustle, rebounding, passing, and intangibles make him vital at the moment. If he develops a league average 3 then he could be a starter, otherwise he will be a 6th man next year.

Hernangomez is a lot like KBD. On paper they don’t play the same, but the truth is both struggle off the dribble, both struggle at the rim. Both have defensive trouble (KBD for his speed, Hernangomez for his size and strength,) and both can hit the 3 but have a much higher percentage on catch and shoot. Hernangomez made an excellent case for being a backup 3 or 4 and never starting even when the starter is hurt. If he is fast enough to play the 3 then he should play there, otherwise he backs up whoever starts at 3 next season and if that guy goes down Layman starts and JH backs him up. Meanwhile, Layman moves to backup 3 next season.


Why shouldn't layman start at 3 right now?
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#53 » by Jedzz » Mon Mar 9, 2020 5:20 am

Klomp wrote:Just Russell, no Towns: 3-6, .333
Just Towns, no Russell: 10-24, .294
Both Russell and Towns: 0-1
Neither Russell or Towns: 6-12, .333


So, Trade Russell and Towns and start over?
Trade Towns for Booker to keep Dlo happy? Dlo/Booker/Beasley small ball?

Close our eyes and just ignore any point in that post?

What's the record these days for with/without Layman's golden toe?
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#54 » by winforlose » Mon Mar 9, 2020 5:58 am

Jedzz wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Okogie had 3 steals today. Outside of those plays, does anyone want to make the claim he is stopping any guards or forwards from scoring?

Hernangomez I think had a fairly poor game both on offense/defense. A meme of him allowing Jrue an inside basket one play today with a little milk hanging off the words "got defense?" would be perfect. Juancho curled up like a turtle as if Lebron was going to shoulder him. Jrue made the smallest of motions to get that reaction to freeze him up.


Okogie had more than three impactful plays. Just off the top of my head he forced Holiday to step out of bounds. The simple truth is JO is 6’4 and being forced to guard guys 2-4 inches taller. He would have an easier time as backup SG, but his hustle, rebounding, passing, and intangibles make him vital at the moment. If he develops a league average 3 then he could be a starter, otherwise he will be a 6th man next year.

Hernangomez is a lot like KBD. On paper they don’t play the same, but the truth is both struggle off the dribble, both struggle at the rim. Both have defensive trouble (KBD for his speed, Hernangomez for his size and strength,) and both can hit the 3 but have a much higher percentage on catch and shoot. Hernangomez made an excellent case for being a backup 3 or 4 and never starting even when the starter is hurt. If he is fast enough to play the 3 then he should play there, otherwise he backs up whoever starts at 3 next season and if that guy goes down Layman starts and JH backs him up. Meanwhile, Layman moves to backup 3 next season.


Why shouldn't layman start at 3 right now?


Simple answer, Okogie is better than Layman at every aspect of the game. Okogie’s passing set up several of our 3s in both the last 2 poor shooting games. I could list all the things I think JO does that have value but I don’t want to spend the time. Simple answer, Layman isn’t all the way back yet. His wind, his shot, his defense, he isn’t ready to start. I don’t expect Culver to be on the team next year, so I wish he would be taken out of the rotation and sent to Iowa. Okogie is likely to be either backup SG or backup SF depending on what we do in the off season. At the moment, Okogie is the best available SF, and since Ryan still wants to win (good luck to him,) Okogie needs to start.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#55 » by andyhop » Mon Mar 9, 2020 7:00 am

Calinks wrote:The defense on this team is so ridiculously bad. It's worse than ever. The only good thing is we are learning this now and the staff can try to address it this summer. There is no way you will be a playoff team playing like this next season, it needs to be magnitudes better. Giant red flag that can't be ignored. I don't know if we have ever had a team that plays as poorly on defense as this one.



Its what happens when you consistently trade away anyone who shows even a modicum of talent defensively.

There is no indication that the Wolves value defense in the slightest
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#56 » by minimus » Mon Mar 9, 2020 7:56 am

andyhop wrote:
Calinks wrote:The defense on this team is so ridiculously bad. It's worse than ever. The only good thing is we are learning this now and the staff can try to address it this summer. There is no way you will be a playoff team playing like this next season, it needs to be magnitudes better. Giant red flag that can't be ignored. I don't know if we have ever had a team that plays as poorly on defense as this one.



Its what happens when you consistently trade away anyone who shows even a modicum of talent defensively.

There is no indication that the Wolves value defense in the slightest


Ha? Okogie, Culver, JJ?
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#57 » by minimus » Mon Mar 9, 2020 8:31 am

А few thoughts:

* - Naz Reid looks tired. He missed bunnies around rim and his 3pt shots are a bit short. Maybe he has hit rookie wall, which is not strange considering the fact that he entered offseason completely out of shape and after injury. However, this game I was surprised by his effort, he had a couple a steals, and good blocks, that were screwed by referees. Overall his defense improves. Not NBA level yet, but solid for rookie.
* - DLo can create out of PnR after every good screen. He made some nifty pocket passes that should have lead to easy points, but teammates blew layups. Our opponents adjust to our strengths they try to take away DLo 3pt/midrange game, they let Naz shoot open 3s, they defend Beasley when he tries to get open. They force us to rely on Okogie, Layman, Juancho to create offense and results are bad. Once Reid is out, DLo basically tries to create something in ISOs. I bet that having a good screener will increase DLo productivity.
* - glad Layman had that dunk, he is struggling to find rhythm but hope that dunk will bust his confidence
* - Nowell problem is fit, he is a shooter who has lost confidence. In our system he needs to have Malik Beasley confidence to get spot in rotation, even if he does not score (see Martin example). Or he needs to have Okogie bulldog mentality in defense. He had a very good steal, but his momentum was killed by referees after questionable call against Jrue.
* - Beasley could not get an open look and here our coaches need to work better. Also execution of plays might be better. I noticed that he is not afraid to defend bigger opponents and gives a lot of effort. I like this mentality.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#58 » by andyhop » Mon Mar 9, 2020 9:20 am

minimus wrote:
andyhop wrote:
Calinks wrote:The defense on this team is so ridiculously bad. It's worse than ever. The only good thing is we are learning this now and the staff can try to address it this summer. There is no way you will be a playoff team playing like this next season, it needs to be magnitudes better. Giant red flag that can't be ignored. I don't know if we have ever had a team that plays as poorly on defense as this one.



Its what happens when you consistently trade away anyone who shows even a modicum of talent defensively.

There is no indication that the Wolves value defense in the slightest


Ha? Okogie, Culver, JJ?


JJ is good the other two aren't
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#59 » by Jedzz » Mon Mar 9, 2020 9:58 am

winforlose wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Okogie had more than three impactful plays. Just off the top of my head he forced Holiday to step out of bounds. The simple truth is JO is 6’4 and being forced to guard guys 2-4 inches taller. He would have an easier time as backup SG, but his hustle, rebounding, passing, and intangibles make him vital at the moment. If he develops a league average 3 then he could be a starter, otherwise he will be a 6th man next year.

Hernangomez is a lot like KBD. On paper they don’t play the same, but the truth is both struggle off the dribble, both struggle at the rim. Both have defensive trouble (KBD for his speed, Hernangomez for his size and strength,) and both can hit the 3 but have a much higher percentage on catch and shoot. Hernangomez made an excellent case for being a backup 3 or 4 and never starting even when the starter is hurt. If he is fast enough to play the 3 then he should play there, otherwise he backs up whoever starts at 3 next season and if that guy goes down Layman starts and JH backs him up. Meanwhile, Layman moves to backup 3 next season.


Why shouldn't layman start at 3 right now?


Simple answer, Okogie is better than Layman at every aspect of the game. Okogie’s passing set up several of our 3s in both the last 2 poor shooting games. I could list all the things I think JO does that have value but I don’t want to spend the time. Simple answer, Layman isn’t all the way back yet. His wind, his shot, his defense, he isn’t ready to start. I don’t expect Culver to be on the team next year, so I wish he would be taken out of the rotation and sent to Iowa. Okogie is likely to be either backup SG or backup SF depending on what we do in the off season. At the moment, Okogie is the best available SF, and since Ryan still wants to win (good luck to him,) Okogie needs to start.


Oh I have doubt regarding that first sentance. But I like your confidence in him.

I believe Layman had the best defensive rating going of any Wolves players up until his toe implosion. He was also averaging 11 pts at that time. I remember reading both of those points before during his absence. Also, it was evident to many how the season record started to spiral after his injury.

Josh is averaging 8.6 pts as a starter. Jake is now down to 9 since returning from the injury and only has two starts on the season from before the injury.

Overall I think if you look at on/off that Okogie doesn't have much positive impact on the team, at least not compared to Layman. Nearly across the board on/off Layman is positive difference and Okogie isn't. Niether greatly change the Wolves offensively, but when Layman is off the court, the opponents offensive rating skyrockets to nearly top 5 range and when he's on the court the opponents are in the bottom5 range for OffRtng. When Okogie is off court the opponents OffRtg drops slightly, as does their eFG%, and when Okogie is on the court the opponents OffRtg is nearly top5 to top10 range.

That difference in Opponents OffRtng seems large to me. Unless maybe that is the difference between playing against starting 5s and bench 5s showing in those numbers. I can't be certain. I haven't looked at how many minutes are overlapping with these two. But regardless, Opponents are still rating in the top5 range while Okogie is playing and he's one 5th of that issue.
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Re: Game 63: Minnesota Timberwolves (19-43) vs. New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) - 3:30 PM ET 

Post#60 » by minimus » Mon Mar 9, 2020 10:01 am

andyhop wrote:
minimus wrote:
andyhop wrote:

Its what happens when you consistently trade away anyone who shows even a modicum of talent defensively.

There is no indication that the Wolves value defense in the slightest


Ha? Okogie, Culver, JJ?


JJ is good the other two aren't


Other than RoCo who from players that we traded recently is better defensively than Okogie and Culver?

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