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Trade Talk (Part Four)

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Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1 » by Domejandro » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:57 pm

Continue here.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#2 » by karch34 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:45 pm

To Shrink's question:
I didn’t like Clarke as much as many people here did around the draft when we had #11, but he seems to have proven me wrong. Do you think he could be our starting PF for Rosas system? Do you think he could ever be in the top half of PF’s in the NBA?

I’ve liked Brooks in the small sample I’ve seen him, and he looks to me to be a 3-and-D kid we could use. Would he start over Culver/Okogie, assuming we re-sign Malik Beasley?

Clarke is similar height to RoCo and shot 3s at 40%, though it was only about 1 per game attempted. I think he could play in Rosas system. Top half in NBA depends on what that looks like as that position was rebounding, points in paint, and blocks but now it seems like more floor spacing at switchability. I think he could be effective but don't know if we'd adapt anyone that wasn't a specific archetype of what Houston is now with exception of KAT who's different in only that he's a true C.

I think Brooks is ideally the bench and I'm not sure what we'll do long term with Culver and Okogie.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#3 » by karch34 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:47 pm

To minimus post:
JJ, Spellman, Evans, Culver, Nowell, SRP for Otto Porter, CHI FRP.
Re-sign Beasley, Martin, McLaughlin. Draft Okoro, Haliburton, Vassell.

I like the value, I just see Porter making a lot for a guy I'm not sure is the #3. Him and Beasley pretty much lock us into 4 players for most of the cap. Down with the draft moves.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#4 » by Jedzz » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:09 am

I realize JJ's soon to be expiring contract amount makes him a useful tool in your trade ideas. But I hope they retain this guy. He brings a level of skills and confidence, and overal enttertainment value I really want the team to have so I can still find some enjoyment even when the team is getting beat up. Because he will be there fighting back.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#5 » by minimus » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:11 am

Culver, MIN 2020 FRP for Mikal Bridges, for PHO 2020 FRP.

Why for PHO? Move up in draft.
Why for MIN? Get 3&D, get top10 pick to draft Vassell.

JJ for John Collins via S&T.
Nowell, Spellman, Evans, BRO FRP for Cam Reddish.

Why for ATL? Get multiple prospects and additional FRP.
Why for MIN? Cleanup roster, transform quantity into quality, get starting PF

Re-sign Beasley, Martin, McLaughlin. Draft Vassell, Tre Jones.

KAT/Reid
Collins/Reddish/Vanderbilt
Bridges/Vassel/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Vassel
DLo/McLaughlin/Jones
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#6 » by shrink » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:55 pm

Jedzz wrote:I realize JJ's soon to be expiring contract amount makes him a useful tool in your trade ideas. But I hope they retain this guy. He brings a level of skills and confidence, and overal enttertainment value I really want the team to have so I can still find some enjoyment even when the team is getting beat up. Because he will be there fighting back.

I think it’s interesting that a player can fall out of favor (like he did in Miami), but still be a talented and productive player. It isn’t always about skills - there are lots of skilled players in the NBA - sometimes it’s about opportunity. Sometimes a player wears out his welcome, which sounds like what happened with JJ and his personal problems with the Heat.

I was also surprised to see Rosas trade Gorgui for Johnson. I think Gorgui is a much better player, but Rosas knew Johnson from his days on his CBA team, and realized that we had little opportunity for Dieng here (and he would eat Naz’ limited minutes when Towns got healthy), but Johnson would be able to contribute. Again, opportunity.

However, I still expect Johnson is eminently tradable, since we were so willing to clear out Covington because of his age. But yeah, I might miss his heart if he gets dealt.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#7 » by Klomp » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:46 pm

One thing I think about with Johnson is it's one of our last opportunities to use that salary slot to add a bigger ticket item. If he leaves in FA, we can only add someone for the MLE at most. If he re-signs for a discount, that extension amount becomes the new salary slot. Right now, he's a $16 million player. That could be very useful if trying to add significant talent.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#8 » by shrink » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:07 pm

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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#9 » by minimus » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:37 pm

If fall out of top4.

1) trade top4 pick (Wiseman/Okongwu), Culver, Evans, Spellman for Marcus Smart, #17

Why for BOS? They get a true big to fight against MIL/PHI/TOR frontcourt
Why for MIN? They get an elite, experienced defender

2) draft Saddiq Bey, Tyler Bey, Oturu
3) re-sign Beasley, Martin, McLaughlin.

KAT/Reid/Oturu
JJ/Tyler Bey/Vanderbilt
Saddiq Bey/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Smart
DLo/Smart/McLaughlin
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#10 » by KAT4PREZ » Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:44 am

I wonder if there's a way for us to pry NAW from the Pelicans as it looks like he's stuck out of the rotation there. Would be a nice under the radar guy to share the court with Russell or Beasley as a 3rd guard.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#11 » by Neeva » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:34 am

KAT4PREZ wrote:I wonder if there's a way for us to pry NAW from the Pelicans as it looks like he's stuck out of the rotation there. Would be a nice under the radar guy to share the court with Russell or Beasley as a 3rd guard.


I wouldn’t want to offer the 16th though:/
Maybe just wait for his value to keep tanking.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#12 » by andyhop » Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:29 am

I thought this was interesting

Johnson and 2020 FRP for Clarke, Dillon Brooks and Anderson


How low would the pick need to fall in the lottery before you’d consider this deal?


As a casual college viewer , I would take Clarke before pretty much everyone in this draft.

I understand the development advantage others have being a lot younger but I will take the guarantee of Clarke over that promise.

So to answer the question I might take the deal regardless of where our pick ends up
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#13 » by shrink » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:23 pm

Mock off-season from Fansided.

https://sircharlesincharge.com/2020/04/26/nba-mock-offseason-clippers-win-beal-traded/19/

Head coach: Sam Cassell (hired in offseason)

Who they re-signed:
Malik Beasley re-signed to a three-year, $32.4 million contract
Juan Hernangomez re-signed to a three-year, $24.2 million contract

Who they signed in FA:
Bryn Forbes signed to a one-year, full mid-level exception contract

Trades they made:
Sixth overall draft pick, James Johnson and Jarred Vanderbilt for Aaron Gordon and 16th overall draft pick
33rd overall draft pick and cash to the Charlotte Hornets for 32nd overall draft pick
2022 Minnesota Timberwolves second-round draft pick and 2023 Minnesota Timberwolves second-round draft pick to the Memphis Grizzlies for 41st overall draft pick

Who they drafted:
Drafted Devin Vassell (15), Aaron Nesmith (16), Daniel Oturu (32), Kira Lewis Jr. (41)

Other moves:
Cut Jaylen Nowell
Cut Jacob Evans


Russell, Forbes, Kira Lewis
Beasley, Okogie, Vassell
Layman, Culver, Nesmith
Gordon, Hermangomez, Spellman
Towns, Reid, Oturu
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#14 » by shrink » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:11 pm

Sixth overall draft pick, James Johnson and Jarred Vanderbilt for Aaron Gordon and 16th overall draft pick

To be honest, if this was the price to bring in Aaron Gordon, (and I truly doubt it’s higher than this), I think I’d take a shot.

I am still very concerned that he gets over-rated on defense, that he hasn’t got much better, and especially his poor three-point shooting, which Towns needs to force slow-footed centers to try to guard him. However, there is a lot of truth that the Magic have put him in a pretty bad situation, forcing him to play SF, not giving him much space to operate, and asking him to be good at so many different things. It’s possible that he would grow in Rosas less-restrictive system, and I always like buying assets when their price has been beaten down.

My expectations will be lower than most. He alone is not going to fix this defense, and he makes a Wigginish-level of bad decisions when he drives. However, I can envision him welcoming the opportunity to come here (like Malik Beasley), and he has the possibility for star upside.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#15 » by minimus » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:15 pm

shrink wrote:
Sixth overall draft pick, James Johnson and Jarred Vanderbilt for Aaron Gordon and 16th overall draft pick

To be honest, if this was the price to bring in Aaron Gordon, (and I truly doubt it’s higher than this), I think I’d take a shot.

I am still very concerned that he gets over-rated on defense, that he hasn’t got much better, and especially his poor three-point shooting, which Towns needs to force slow-footed centers to try to guard him. However, there is a lot of truth that the Magic have put him in a pretty bad situation, forcing him to play SF, not giving him much space to operate, and asking him to be good at so many different things. It’s possible that he would grow in Rosas less-restrictive system, and I always like buying assets when their price has been beaten down.

My expectations will be lower than most. He alone is not going to fix this defense, and he makes a Wigginish-level of bad decisions when he drives. However, I can envision him welcoming the opportunity to come here (like Malik Beasley), and he has the possibility for star upside.


If we bring here Gordon, the most important question is who starts at SF. We need a true 3&D at SF. I wish Layman showed a little more consistency here or Okogie/Culver could hit 3s with league average accuracy. Neither of them is 3&D yet. Let say Gordon starts with this year version of Layman/Okogie/Culver. That is a bad combination. Because Gordon is what he is: versatile, but not elite defender, inconsistent shooter, elite athlete with weak slashing and decision making skills. But if we have a solid player at SF who fits our offence and defense, Gordon will look much better. Just to understand, in ORL Gordon plays with Vuc/Birch at C, Ross/Ennis/Iwundu at SF, while their best ball handlers/decision makers are Fournier/Augustine/Fultz. Having KAT/DLo as main decision makers in MIN is a huge advantage. Both can score, both can pass. To be able to elevate whole offense KAT/DLo need players who fit. We have seen how Beasley, Juancho played well in offense simply by running hard in transition, moving well off the ball and shooting from sweet spots. KAT-Gordon-???-Beasley-DLo. We need solid third wing. There are several things that make me optimistic about our situation:

1) Layman was clearly out of shape/rhythm because of injury. When he is healthy he moves very well off the ball, which is a very important skill when you play with an elite shooter/scorer such as DLo and KAT.



He might never be a lockdown defender, but he is a solid backup combo forward.

2) Okogie/Culver are young, they will improve. Their contracts are relatively cheap, they are already solid defenders.

3) We have two pick to draft/trade for starting wing. I like Vassell as potential 3&D player and I think working offensive scheme can help our rookies to adjust.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#16 » by Neeva » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:55 pm

shrink wrote:Mock off-season from Fansided.

https://sircharlesincharge.com/2020/04/26/nba-mock-offseason-clippers-win-beal-traded/19/

Head coach: Sam Cassell (hired in offseason)

Who they re-signed:
Malik Beasley re-signed to a three-year, $32.4 million contract
Juan Hernangomez re-signed to a three-year, $24.2 million contract

Who they signed in FA:
Bryn Forbes signed to a one-year, full mid-level exception contract

Trades they made:
Sixth overall draft pick, James Johnson and Jarred Vanderbilt for Aaron Gordon and 16th overall draft pick
33rd overall draft pick and cash to the Charlotte Hornets for 32nd overall draft pick
2022 Minnesota Timberwolves second-round draft pick and 2023 Minnesota Timberwolves second-round draft pick to the Memphis Grizzlies for 41st overall draft pick

Who they drafted:
Drafted Devin Vassell (15), Aaron Nesmith (16), Daniel Oturu (32), Kira Lewis Jr. (41)

Other moves:
Cut Jaylen Nowell
Cut Jacob Evans


Russell, Forbes, Kira Lewis
Beasley, Okogie, Vassell
Layman, Culver, Nesmith
Gordon, Hermangomez, Spellman
Towns, Reid, Oturu


In that scenerio I would try to move up to get 11th pick and draft Hayes using 15th/Okogie/spellman
Also draft Tyler Bey over oturu as Okogie replacement.
If we end up with Hayes, Nesmith, Tyler Bey and Kira Lewis I will be happy.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#17 » by Domejandro » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:06 pm

One thing that I will be interested in seeing is if COVID-19 leads to a weak trading market over the off-season. For teams that would possibly consider tearing it down/restructuring after a disappointing Playoffs may be substantially more likely to just run it back.

I see this as something that might hurt Minnesota, given that we are a team that should probably be consolidating assets to reach the next level.

Bradley Beal: Basically untouchable (he is unequivocal about wanting to stay).
Ben Simmons: Totally untouchable.
[Huge talent gap]
Jrue Holiday: New Orleans clearly intends to keep him.
Devon Booker: Nearly untouchable.

I just don’t see a likely way for Minnesota to make a splashy move with their assets, which is bad given the pick owed next season. The Western Conference is absolutely stacked next season, so there is reason for concern with that pick.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#18 » by Klomp » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:10 pm

Domejandro wrote:One thing that I will be interested in seeing is if COVID-19 leads to a weak trading market over the off-season. For teams that would possibly consider tearing it down/restructuring after a disappointing Playoffs may be substantially more likely to just run it back.

I see this as something that might hurt Minnesota, given that we are a team that should probably be consolidating assets to reach the next level.

Bradley Beal: Basically untouchable (he is unequivocal about wanting to stay).
Ben Simmons: Totally untouchable.
[Huge talent gap]
Jrue Holiday: New Orleans clearly intends to keep him.
Devon Booker: Nearly untouchable.

I just don’t see a likely way for Minnesota to make a splashy move with their assets, which is bad given the pick owed next season. The Western Conference is absolutely stacked next season, so there is reason for concern with that pick.

I've always wondered if our time to strike shouldn't be this offseason but at the next trade deadline. I too kinda just want to run it back with the guys we've got.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#19 » by minimus » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:54 pm

shrink wrote:Who they drafted:
Drafted Devin Vassell (15), Aaron Nesmith (16), Daniel Oturu (32), Kira Lewis Jr. (41)


I like Vassell and Kira Lewis Jr. Both address our need: Vassell as 3&D prospect, Lewis Jr as a slasher, creator. If we trade our pick but still end up with Vassell and Kira Lewis Jr I'd be more than happy.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#20 » by Jedzz » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:37 am

Klomp wrote:One thing I think about with Johnson is it's one of our last opportunities to use that salary slot to add a bigger ticket item. If he leaves in FA, we can only add someone for the MLE at most. If he re-signs for a discount, that extension amount becomes the new salary slot. Right now, he's a $16 million player. That could be very useful if trying to add significant talent.


Sure. I wonder though when building a winning team will usurp the idea of keeping the financial loopholes open. Heart with skills is hard to find. Who's the next Gorgui Dieng we are going to take back in for that 16 sized slot? It's not like we are talking about a 30 sized slot to sign someone of that stature. Had to pay Teague 20 to come here.

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