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Trade Talk (Part Four)

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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#261 » by Norseman79 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:38 pm

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Well, I have not seen that defensive execution, effort and IQ from Wolves for a while.


Maybe the execution hasn't been there. But I think Toroto as a team has been allowed to get away with just about anything for the last few years. For the Wolves, what happens to say, Towns, the moment he is handed two early fouls? He's no longer going to be throwing a lot of effort into it, he's got to start hiding from it. Whether he's got good execution or bad. That's a team leader getting shut down early by refs. Would Annouby not get that treatment here?

I saw a bit of a change in the past two seasons once RoCo got here. We started having those defensive stand moments where everyone was allowed to defend without being called for ticky tac and fake reach ins that never occured. It sort of stayed even after RoCo was traded. Is it because RoCo brought that defensive respect with him? And could Anonuby do the same?


Part of playing that type of defense is attitude. If you look at the Raptors leaders who helped implement this style of defense, they are hard nosed, in your face, f*** you type of players. Leonard may be soft spoken, but make no mistake about his attitude or aggressiveness as a defender. It's a culture thing there, doesn't fit the culture we are looking to create. Sadly
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#262 » by minimus » Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:14 pm

Norseman79 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Well, I have not seen that defensive execution, effort and IQ from Wolves for a while.


Maybe the execution hasn't been there. But I think Toroto as a team has been allowed to get away with just about anything for the last few years. For the Wolves, what happens to say, Towns, the moment he is handed two early fouls? He's no longer going to be throwing a lot of effort into it, he's got to start hiding from it. Whether he's got good execution or bad. That's a team leader getting shut down early by refs. Would Annouby not get that treatment here?

I saw a bit of a change in the past two seasons once RoCo got here. We started having those defensive stand moments where everyone was allowed to defend without being called for ticky tac and fake reach ins that never occured. It sort of stayed even after RoCo was traded. Is it because RoCo brought that defensive respect with him? And could Anonuby do the same?


Part of playing that type of defense is attitude. If you look at the Raptors leaders who helped implement this style of defense, they are hard nosed, in your face, f*** you type of players. Leonard may be soft spoken, but make no mistake about his attitude or aggressiveness as a defender. It's a culture thing there, doesn't fit the culture we are looking to create. Sadly


Yeah, agree. However, TOR is kind of exception: Gasol was DPOY, Green, Leonard were First Team Defense duet in SAS, and were traded together in TOR. Siakam, Lowry, Powell are decent defenders.

I think we can develop our defense with right coaching. A decent defense built around offensive minded stars: POR (McCollum), GSW (Curry, Klay), HOU (Harden, Gordon)
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#263 » by Jedzz » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:59 am

Norseman79 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Well, I have not seen that defensive execution, effort and IQ from Wolves for a while.


Maybe the execution hasn't been there. But I think Toroto as a team has been allowed to get away with just about anything for the last few years. For the Wolves, what happens to say, Towns, the moment he is handed two early fouls? He's no longer going to be throwing a lot of effort into it, he's got to start hiding from it. Whether he's got good execution or bad. That's a team leader getting shut down early by refs. Would Annouby not get that treatment here?

I saw a bit of a change in the past two seasons once RoCo got here. We started having those defensive stand moments where everyone was allowed to defend without being called for ticky tac and fake reach ins that never occured. It sort of stayed even after RoCo was traded. Is it because RoCo brought that defensive respect with him? And could Anonuby do the same?


Part of playing that type of defense is attitude. If you look at the Raptors leaders who helped implement this style of defense, they are hard nosed, in your face, f*** you type of players. Leonard may be soft spoken, but make no mistake about his attitude or aggressiveness as a defender. It's a culture thing there, doesn't fit the culture we are looking to create. Sadly

OH yes they had that attitude alrgiht and it also went through VanVleet. They are unique by how much they are allowed to press team wide. I don't know if it's because they are on their own up North and are given a wide berth, or if it's just refs respecting that attitude that comes from them all. It's not gone this year just because Leonard left. I agree with Minimus that the execution and game IQ haven't really been on display for Wolves. Maybe that makes Refs critical of their play. Maybe not.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#264 » by Jedzz » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:16 pm

Players under 3MM

WCS. Still think he's a guy to put next to Towns to make Towns cheery more often. (i know, the 1-3-1) 2.1MM through 2021
Pat Caunaughton. smart player, small wing, can finish above rim better than much taller players. Hits threes better in crunch and worse unpressured. 1.7MM contract year
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#265 » by minimus » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:03 pm

1) JJ for GSW TPE
Why: both GSW and MIN will get financial flexibility.

2) MIN FRP, Evans, Spellman for Mikal Bridges, PHO 2021 pick lottery protected
Why for PHO: they can draft either PG or someone like Edwards to pair with Booker.
Why for MIN: get RoCo type defender.

Re-sign Beasley to 52mil/4yrs deal, Juancho to 15mil/3yrs. JMac, Martin to 1+3 deals. Draft Oturu, Xavier Tillman

KAT/Reid/Oturu
Tillman/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Bridges/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/Culver/JMac

First, we keep both Vanderbilt, Nowell, JMac, Martin, Okogie and Culver and we give them another year of development. Next year we will add another young player from draft.
Second, we introduce Bridges as starting wing. I truly believe that he can be RoCo type defender for us.

Third, I recently discovered Xavier Tillman. I think he can be our version of PJ Tucker/Draymond Green. He looks unathletic and slow, but he is a very tough defender.


He lacks 3pt shot, but he is an impressive finisher around the rim. It might help him to survive first couple of years in NBA while he develops jump shot.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#266 » by Klomp » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:10 pm

minimus wrote:Third, I recently discovered Xavier Tillman. I think he can be our version of PJ Tucker/Draymond Green. He looks unathletic and slow, but he is a very tough defender.

He lacks 3pt shot, but he is an impressive finisher around the rim. It might help him to survive first couple of years in NBA while he develops jump shot.

I really like him, but I actually see him as an undersized 5 more than a 4 in this system.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#267 » by minimus » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:19 pm

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:Third, I recently discovered Xavier Tillman. I think he can be our version of PJ Tucker/Draymond Green. He looks unathletic and slow, but he is a very tough defender.

He lacks 3pt shot, but he is an impressive finisher around the rim. It might help him to survive first couple of years in NBA while he develops jump shot.

I really like him, but I actually see him as an undersized 5 more than a 4 in this system.


Thats correct. His current skillset and physical tools make him 5 in our system. However, if we could develop him slowly, developing 3pt shot and use some athletic trainings to improve his body, he might play 4 next to KAT.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#268 » by Norseman79 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:23 pm

If you like Tillman that much, what not just draft Patrick Williams? Unless you see Tillman as a 2nd rounder
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#269 » by minimus » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:02 pm

Norseman79 wrote:If you like Tillman that much, what not just draft Patrick Williams? Unless you see Tillman as a 2nd rounder


I want us to draft Tillman with our SRP. But, I truly believe that we need to draft BPA. It does not matter fit or position. Just draft BPA. I also think that elite offense is valued higher than elite defense. Thats why I'd be comfortable to draft Tilman, Tyler Bey, Paul Reed, Woodard, Patrick Williams in late 20s or even with our SRP.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#270 » by wolves_89 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 10:20 am

karch34 wrote:
minimus wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:The NBA transaction window opens up on Tuesday, will the Wolves make any moves? It would seem like the two most likely possibilities are doing something to get under the luxury tax line and signing McLaughlin to an NBA contract.



If Rosas and Gupta can somehow sign JMac, Martin to new 1+3, get rid of Turner, Spellman contracts AND get under luxury tax line, it will be a pure magic.


Under lux will be the big magic trick. Moore and Robson made it sound like they worked every angle on Turner to no avail. Not sure if potential players sitting out of Orlando changes interest.


It appears the Wolves couldn't pull off any magic tricks. Unless I missed something they didn't do anything during the transaction window. I'm a bit surprised they didn't sign anyone for the 15th roster spot, since if they are already over the luxury tax line giving a multi-year min contract to somebody (McLaughlin for example) would have made sense.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#271 » by Mattya » Wed Jul 1, 2020 8:28 pm

Anyone think a John Collins S&T could be a solid move as long as he is wildly over paid? He isn’t known as a defender but his DRPM last season was very slightly positive. Plus he moves off the ball well to catch lobs a space the floor.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#272 » by Ball4life32 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 10:16 pm

Mattya wrote:Anyone think a John Collins S&T could be a solid move as long as he is wildly over paid? He isn’t known as a defender but his DRPM last season was very slightly positive. Plus he moves off the ball well to catch lobs a space the floor.

Hawks won’t trade him if they get him on a good deal.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#273 » by Mattya » Wed Jul 1, 2020 10:22 pm

Ball4life32 wrote:
Mattya wrote:Anyone think a John Collins S&T could be a solid move as long as he is wildly over paid? He isn’t known as a defender but his DRPM last season was very slightly positive. Plus he moves off the ball well to catch lobs a space the floor.

Hawks won’t trade him if they get him on a good deal.


Sure that’s the point of a trade of an RFA if they don’t want to pay him big long term money.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#274 » by Ball4life32 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 10:43 pm

Mattya wrote:
Ball4life32 wrote:
Mattya wrote:Anyone think a John Collins S&T could be a solid move as long as he is wildly over paid? He isn’t known as a defender but his DRPM last season was very slightly positive. Plus he moves off the ball well to catch lobs a space the floor.

Hawks won’t trade him if they get him on a good deal.


Sure that’s the point of a trade of an RFA if they don’t want to pay him big long term money.

He’s not a RFA until next year though. Plus Hawks have more for cap space than anyone to pay him & Hawks GM was apparently turning everyone away that inquired about him at the deadline so it’d be high $ if they traded him.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#275 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 11:06 pm

wolves_89 wrote:
karch34 wrote:
minimus wrote:

If Rosas and Gupta can somehow sign JMac, Martin to new 1+3, get rid of Turner, Spellman contracts AND get under luxury tax line, it will be a pure magic.


Under lux will be the big magic trick. Moore and Robson made it sound like they worked every angle on Turner to no avail. Not sure if potential players sitting out of Orlando changes interest.


It appears the Wolves couldn't pull off any magic tricks. Unless I missed something they didn't do anything during the transaction window. I'm a bit surprised they didn't sign anyone for the 15th roster spot, since if they are already over the luxury tax line giving a multi-year min contract to somebody (McLaughlin for example) would have made sense.


I'm interested in what they do/don't do to keep JMac. He is a serious threat as a bench player, a skilled competitor. He can also fill a starting PG role if injuries force it again. Shines with 30 minutes.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#276 » by Klomp » Thu Jul 2, 2020 12:11 am

wolves_89 wrote:
karch34 wrote:Under lux will be the big magic trick. Moore and Robson made it sound like they worked every angle on Turner to no avail. Not sure if potential players sitting out of Orlando changes interest.


It appears the Wolves couldn't pull off any magic tricks. Unless I missed something they didn't do anything during the transaction window. I'm a bit surprised they didn't sign anyone for the 15th roster spot, since if they are already over the luxury tax line giving a multi-year min contract to somebody (McLaughlin for example) would have made sense.

After buying out Allen Crabbe over the weekend, the Wolves sit approximately $400,000 above the luxury tax line, a source said. The source added the team is prepared to finish above the tax line — as they expected when executing the Russell trade — if there isn’t a way for the Wolves to get back under it before the end of the season.

The Wolves are fine if they finish the season over the tax line. To the front office and Taylor, it was part of the cost of making the Russell trade, and a source said Taylor told the front office to not go back on a potential deal because it might put the Wolves in the tax.

The Wolves also took the salary back because the Warriors were taking on more money in Wiggins’ contract, which is worth about $5 million more over the duration of the deal than Russell’s, the source said.

The Wolves and Taylor also made the decision to go into the tax because they saw that the potential payout from teams in the tax to other non-tax teams was going to be smaller than usual this season. Also, with Crabbe’s and Turner’s deals off the books (approximately $37 million combined) after this season, the front office will have room to maneuver to stay under the tax next season and still make moves, like potentially resigning Beasley and Hernangomez, who will be restricted free agents.


https://www.startribune.com/glen-taylor-was-not-troubled-by-luxury-tax-in-trying-to-get-d-angelo-russell/568465982/
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#277 » by Mattya » Thu Jul 2, 2020 1:39 am

Ball4life32 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
Ball4life32 wrote:Hawks won’t trade him if they get him on a good deal.


Sure that’s the point of a trade of an RFA if they don’t want to pay him big long term money.

He’s not a RFA until next year though. Plus Hawks have more for cap space than anyone to pay him & Hawks GM was apparently turning everyone away that inquired about him at the deadline so it’d be high $ if they traded him.


Right, having cap space doesn't mean they want to spend it on him though and we don't really know what was offered in trades for Collins. I'm not saying you have to trade him, I'm just saying it is a possibility if the Hawks don't want to pay him.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#278 » by Ball4life32 » Thu Jul 2, 2020 2:30 am

Mattya wrote:
Ball4life32 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
Sure that’s the point of a trade of an RFA if they don’t want to pay him big long term money.

He’s not a RFA until next year though. Plus Hawks have more for cap space than anyone to pay him & Hawks GM was apparently turning everyone away that inquired about him at the deadline so it’d be high $ if they traded him.


Right, having cap space doesn't mean they want to spend it on him though and we don't really know what was offered in trades for Collins. I'm not saying you have to trade him, I'm just saying it is a possibility if the Hawks don't want to pay him.

Right but the only rumor of the Hawks trading Collins was because of him wanting the max or near max. If he agrees to sign for whatever you consider reasonable like you suggested they won’t turn around & trade him.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#279 » by Mattya » Thu Jul 2, 2020 2:37 am

Ball4life32 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
Ball4life32 wrote:He’s not a RFA until next year though. Plus Hawks have more for cap space than anyone to pay him & Hawks GM was apparently turning everyone away that inquired about him at the deadline so it’d be high $ if they traded him.


Right, having cap space doesn't mean they want to spend it on him though and we don't really know what was offered in trades for Collins. I'm not saying you have to trade him, I'm just saying it is a possibility if the Hawks don't want to pay him.

Right but the only rumor of the Hawks trading Collins was because of him wanting the max or near max. If he agrees to sign for whatever you consider reasonable like you suggested they won’t turn around & trade him.


I would guess he can probably get around 23-24 million.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#280 » by minimus » Sat Jul 4, 2020 11:44 am

We need veterans, we need defenders:

1) Re-work JJ contract 30mil/3yrs, 3rd year is a team option
Why for JJ: get starting PF job in MIN
Why for MIN: keep our only veteran, who happens to play the most important FA position for us

2) Trade our FRP, Culver, Spellman, Evans for Marcus Smart, #17, #27, #30
Why for BOS: get Wiseman and Culver, two promising prospects.
Why for MIN: get an elite perimeter defender and multiple picks

3) Trade #27, #30, Nowell for SAS #11
Why for SAS: they have been successful at drafting in late lottery. They might turn these two picks into solid players
Why for MIN: get BPA at #11

4) draft at Maxey at 11, Saddiq Bey at 16, Xavier Tillman (or Paul Reed or Tyler Bey) at 35

Re-sign Beasley to 52mil/4yrs. Layman to 15mil/3yrs. Martin and JMac to Hinkie deals (8mil/4yrs).

KAT/Reid/Tyler Bey
JJ/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Saddiq Bey/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Maxey
DLo/Smart/JMac

It is around 109mil in 2020-21 season. This roster will have:

* - multiple elite shooters. KAT, DLo, Beasley, Juancho
* - two elite perimeter defenders in Okogie and Smart
* - multiple ballhandlers in DLo, Smart, JMac. Maxey and JJ
* - three versatile big wings in Bey, Layman and Martin. All three are 6'8" solid athletes who can score and defend
* - three defensive minded PFs (Tyler Bey, Vanderbilt and JJ) who can play next to two offensive minded С (KAT/Reid)
* - talented prospects who can significantly improve (Vanderbilt, Maxey and Beys). All of them has potential of becoming a plus defenders.

From Vanderbilt scouting report:
Measured 6’9 in shoes with a tremendous 7’1 wingspan and lean, but improving 217-pound frame prior to his freshman year last fall. Has solid size for a forward, great length, and tremendous all-around athleticism. Very explosive leaper with impressive quickness for his size and wiry strength. Did not play a particularly large role for the Wildcats offensively, but contributed in a couple of key areas. Made significant contributions on the glass on both ends and brought some welcomed toughness to the Wildcats’ frontcourt defensively. Has terrific tools and potential as a defender especially if he can continue to get stronger. Length and lateral quickness could allow him to comfortably guard multiple positions. Allowed just 0.750 points per Isolation possession[56th percentile] showing impressive recovery speed sliding his feet to stay step-for-step with smaller players.


From Maxey scouting report:
Maxey isn’t really a true 2 guard and he’s not a pure 1. He’s a combo guard who can score the ball and get hot from outside but needs to develop his point guard skills and hit the 3pt shot at a higher clip. Although he doesn’t have great size he’s a stout defender who can hold his own against taller players and keep pace with point guards. He’s pesky and tenacious and plays hard on defense. Has natural scoring instincts and is a constant threat to put the ball in the basket. Has deep range and shots it confidence. Excellent mid range and floater game. Very quick athlete with good open court speed – loves to push the tempo. Gets into the lane in a hurry and is a creative finisher. Isn’t afraid of the big moment and can be a clutch shooter


From Saddiq Bey scouting report:
Saddiq Bey is a long versatile wing with one of the most lethal outside shots in the country. Just like many great shooters, Bey thrives when coming off of screens in off-ball scenarios. He’s got such a pretty stroke whether he is spotting up or shooting it off of the dribble from deep. Saddiq Bey plays like a point guard as a floor general with a high basketball IQ and a strong ability to make plays for both himself as well as others. As a pick-and-roll ball-handler, Bey can attack the defender that gets switched out onto him or pull-up and hit his mid-range jump shot. Bey is strong with the ball and when driving to the rim, his long strides put him in great situations to finish at the rim. An underrated low-post player, Bey showcases great footwork and a soft touch from six to 10 feet out. While his athletic ability isn’t off the charts, the high motor and effort given makes him an reliable rebounder on both end+s of the floor. Defensively, his IQ plays a role here as well, understanding passing lanes, knowing when to take chances and when not to. The range that Bey possesses on defense allows him to defend guards as well as handle his own down-low when switched onto a big. The intelligence on defense paired with active hands makes him a strong prospect for a team looking for a promising wing defender.


From Tyler Bey scouting report:
Tyler Bey is a rangy, explosive forward with budding offensive potential, a terrific motor on the glass, and an intriguing combination of versatility and instincts on the defensive end. Bey averaged 13.5 points and 9.9 rebounds nearly averaging a double-double. Standing 6-foot-7 with a solid 215-pound frame and a 7-foot-1 wingspan, Bey is a gifted athlete with good agility and impressive explosiveness.
Playing a somewhat unique role for the Buffaloes, Bey frequently operated one-on-one in the post, but provided some inside-outside shot making off the ball while impacting the game with his athleticism on the glass and in the open floor as well. A bouncy finisher who is still expanding the range on his jump shot, he has some promising tools on the offensive end. Stuffing the stat sheet and possessing coveted versatility on the defensive end, Bey was a factor in the passing lanes, active on the glass, energetic as a rim protector, and held his own for stretches guarding a wide range of opposing scorers one-on-one. With a terrific combination of length, athleticism, and energy, Bey is an excellent rebounder who regularly goes outside of his area to pursue the ball, gets his hands on the ball in the passing lanes, and even shows the timing to meet finishers at the rim.

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