Trade Talk (Part Four)

[Domejandro]

Honestly, my top target would be Ben Simmons, Minnesota should throw the farm to get him if Philadelphia flames out in the first round.

As SF or PF?


But like it either way, I like it alot. But I think he is too Hollywood to accept a trade to Minnesota.

With Minnesota’s system, I would expect him to play Power-Forward. He is friends with Towns and wouldn’t have a choice anyways, so that is not a concern for me.

[shrink]

Honestly, my top target would be Ben Simmons, Minnesota should throw the farm to get him if Philadelphia flames out in the first round.

I really don’t like the idea of Simmons. Offensively, he can’t shoot from the three point line (and barely from the two point midrange), and his value is with the ball in his hands.

I worry a lot about Russell, especially on a max deal, but the only chance he counteracts his negative defense is with the ball in his hands on offense,

[minimus]

Honestly, my top target would be Ben Simmons, Minnesota should throw the farm to get him if Philadelphia flames out in the first round.

I really don’t like the idea of Simmons. Offensively, he can’t shoot from the three point line (and barely from the two point midrange), and his value is with the ball in his hands.

I worry a lot about Russell, especially on a max deal, but the only chance he counteracts his negative defense is with the ball in his hands on offense,

The idea of Simmons is having another elite ballhanlder, passer who can defend 1-4 positions. At this level of talent they really wont have any problem of fit, since KAT and DLo both can play as true shooters not only as scorers. Simple drive and kick in transition will create a lot of opportunities.

The problem is however his contract - 34mil per year. We can see, that in this league that good contracts of 15-16 mil per year are becoming rare. It is either various max or Daniel Theiss deals around 5 mil. I can see Rosas making this trade, but it would probably mean only one 10-15mil per contract in roster and a lot of 1+3 Hinkie deals, vetmin, rookie deals etc. Anyway If the price for Ben Simmons, Devin Booker was something like our FRP, JJ, Culver, Rosas would have been already there with different offers.

[Klomp]

Anyway If the price for Ben Simmons, Devin Booker was something like our FRP, JJ, Culver, Rosas would have been already there with different offers.

Remember, we are still in-season technically. Johnson was acquired at the deadline and his salary hasn't been able to be aggregated in any deal. Maybe he's talked with GMs, but they really can't go anywhere with them until the offseason.

[old school 34]

Honestly, my top target would be Ben Simmons, Minnesota should throw the farm to get him if Philadelphia flames out in the first round.

I really don’t like the idea of Simmons. Offensively, he can’t shoot from the three point line (and barely from the two point midrange), and his value is with the ball in his hands.

I worry a lot about Russell, especially on a max deal, but the only chance he counteracts his negative defense is with the ball in his hands on offense,

The idea of Simmons is having another elite ballhanlder, passer who can defend 1-4 positions. At this level of talent they really wont have any problem of fit, since KAT and DLo both can play as true shooters not only as scorers. Simple drive and kick in transition will create a lot of opportunities.

The problem is however his contract - 34mil per year. We can see, that in this league that good contracts of 15-16 mil per year are becoming rare. It is either various max or Daniel Theiss deals around 5 mil. I can see Rosas making this trade, but it would probably mean only one 10-15mil per contract in roster and a lot of 1+3 Hinkie deals, vetmin, rookie deals etc. Anyway If the price for Ben Simmons, Devin Booker was something like our FRP, JJ, Culver, Rosas would have been already there with different offers.

I'd much rather take Simmons over Booker...also, while some think DLo needs the ball in his hands a ton and not saying that he shouldn't have it at all...but last few years his best #'s come with another PG on the court w/ him...why not have one that could also function as a PF?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[old school 34]

.342 from the corners for his career. Covington is @.377. Markannen @.372. Is he as good as them? No, but it could be enough.

This is exactly how I feel. Our PF has to be a good enough three point shooter to stretch a second big out to the three point line.

Can Gordon be a big enough threat to force opposing coaches to bring both bigs out, and create space for our slashers? I guess we can hope. I agree with you; our PF doesn’t have to be awesome, but he needs to be a serious threat. I think my threshold would be around 36%

It's fair assessment. But is always a trade off. Not only because the perfect player does not exist, but because even if he exist, you still must have enough assets to put pieces around him. What I mean is, we had Roco, who is not only a better shooter than 36% but a defensive presence. But the PG and SG defense was so porous and light on contact and rebounds (the previous season, in my understanding), and KAT who is not Gobert, that we were among the worse defensive teams in the league.

We also had Dario and Juancho both who shot over 36% but still weren't good enough at other things. Dario has problems defending in space, Juancho had more problems defending the paint. I think Gordon brings the defensive versatilty those guys lacked, he is physical but quick enough to switch and can play above the rim, while no being terrible at shooting.

But he is just a name going around becuse he is in an awkward situation in his current team, with Aminu, Okeke and Isaac at his position. Guys on their second contracts who are paid well and didn't become stars are more close to be neutral assets than a standout young player on a rookie scaled contrct (for which could be less costly to get them) and far more proven than a mid to late lottery pick.

If you brought in AG...that's the hope right that you could get just enough improvement to make it work.

My first option though....is how much more would it cost us to get Isaac instead of AG? Would Orl even put him on the table...if so, I think I'd prefer paying the inflated costs?

Would Culver & both FRP's be enough?

If you get Isaac....2 yrs younger....better 3 pt shooter--who's 80% from FT line--so could still continue to grow....like 3" taller & longer & would be best shot blocker to ever pair with KAT to date...maybe that's what gives him more patience as PnR defender to become better (WCS days from UK)? Plus, I believe he might have some sort of relationship with Beasley--both being FSU guys which couldn't hurt?

He's still not finished product, but headed the right way & his ceiling would be the closest thing that might be attainable as a PF fit for us?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[old school 34]

Last question....who has more trade value...Culver or Okogie? They seem like the next most likely carrot on making our next deal after draft picks &/or if we need JJ's contract filler...

On our future playoff roster long term...either probably fills the same backup SG spot unless someone was to suddenly fix their shooting & even then, assuming Beasley gets resigned....both can play the SF but not ideal & definitely not together on the floor?

I would think in that scenario unless contract size becomes an issue...the guy with greater trade value is the one that moves & it will be less about which one they truly prefer?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[minimus]

This is exactly how I feel. Our PF has to be a good enough three point shooter to stretch a second big out to the three point line.

Can Gordon be a big enough threat to force opposing coaches to bring both bigs out, and create space for our slashers? I guess we can hope. I agree with you; our PF doesn’t have to be awesome, but he needs to be a serious threat. I think my threshold would be around 36%

It's fair assessment. But is always a trade off. Not only because the perfect player does not exist, but because even if he exist, you still must have enough assets to put pieces around him. What I mean is, we had Roco, who is not only a better shooter than 36% but a defensive presence. But the PG and SG defense was so porous and light on contact and rebounds (the previous season, in my understanding), and KAT who is not Gobert, that we were among the worse defensive teams in the league.

We also had Dario and Juancho both who shot over 36% but still weren't good enough at other things. Dario has problems defending in space, Juancho had more problems defending the paint. I think Gordon brings the defensive versatilty those guys lacked, he is physical but quick enough to switch and can play above the rim, while no being terrible at shooting.

But he is just a name going around becuse he is in an awkward situation in his current team, with Aminu, Okeke and Isaac at his position. Guys on their second contracts who are paid well and didn't become stars are more close to be neutral assets than a standout young player on a rookie scaled contrct (for which could be less costly to get them) and far more proven than a mid to late lottery pick.

If you brought in AG...that's the hope right that you could get just enough improvement to make it work.

My first option though....is how much more would it cost us to get Isaac instead of AG? Would Orl even put him on the table...if so, I think I'd prefer paying the inflated costs?

Would Culver & both FRP's be enough?

If you get Isaac....2 yrs younger....better 3 pt shooter--who's 80% from FT line--so could still continue to grow....like 3" taller & longer & would be best shot blocker to ever pair with KAT to date...maybe that's what gives him more patience as PnR defender to become better (WCS days from UK)? Plus, I believe he might have some sort of relationship with Beasley--both being FSU guys which couldn't hurt?

He's still not finished product, but headed the right way & his ceiling would be the closest thing that might be attainable as a PF fit for us?

The only issue with Isaac is his injury log. His fit in MIN would be excellent. He is basically a young version of KG in smallball era.

[Neeva]

It's fair assessment. But is always a trade off. Not only because the perfect player does not exist, but because even if he exist, you still must have enough assets to put pieces around him. What I mean is, we had Roco, who is not only a better shooter than 36% but a defensive presence. But the PG and SG defense was so porous and light on contact and rebounds (the previous season, in my understanding), and KAT who is not Gobert, that we were among the worse defensive teams in the league.

We also had Dario and Juancho both who shot over 36% but still weren't good enough at other things. Dario has problems defending in space, Juancho had more problems defending the paint. I think Gordon brings the defensive versatilty those guys lacked, he is physical but quick enough to switch and can play above the rim, while no being terrible at shooting.

But he is just a name going around becuse he is in an awkward situation in his current team, with Aminu, Okeke and Isaac at his position. Guys on their second contracts who are paid well and didn't become stars are more close to be neutral assets than a standout young player on a rookie scaled contrct (for which could be less costly to get them) and far more proven than a mid to late lottery pick.

If you brought in AG...that's the hope right that you could get just enough improvement to make it work.

My first option though....is how much more would it cost us to get Isaac instead of AG? Would Orl even put him on the table...if so, I think I'd prefer paying the inflated costs?

Would Culver & both FRP's be enough?

If you get Isaac....2 yrs younger....better 3 pt shooter--who's 80% from FT line--so could still continue to grow....like 3" taller & longer & would be best shot blocker to ever pair with KAT to date...maybe that's what gives him more patience as PnR defender to become better (WCS days from UK)? Plus, I believe he might have some sort of relationship with Beasley--both being FSU guys which couldn't hurt?

He's still not finished product, but headed the right way & his ceiling would be the closest thing that might be attainable as a PF fit for us?

The only issue with Isaac is his injury log. His fit in MIN would be excellent. He is basically a young version of KG in smallball era.

Orlando will want too much for such an injury riddled player that is not even an all star in the weak east.

[Klomp]

I'd much rather take Simmons over Booker...also, while some think DLo needs the ball in his hands a ton and not saying that he shouldn't have it at all...but last few years his best #'s come with another PG on the court w/ him...why not have one that could also function as a PF?

Let's not forget that Booker has also been a pretty ball-dominant player. I think the three of them could make it work, but that's one clear difference between Beasley and Booker as SGs.

[old school 34]

If you brought in AG...that's the hope right that you could get just enough improvement to make it work.

My first option though....is how much more would it cost us to get Isaac instead of AG? Would Orl even put him on the table...if so, I think I'd prefer paying the inflated costs?

Would Culver & both FRP's be enough?

If you get Isaac....2 yrs younger....better 3 pt shooter--who's 80% from FT line--so could still continue to grow....like 3" taller & longer & would be best shot blocker to ever pair with KAT to date...maybe that's what gives him more patience as PnR defender to become better (WCS days from UK)? Plus, I believe he might have some sort of relationship with Beasley--both being FSU guys which couldn't hurt?

He's still not finished product, but headed the right way & his ceiling would be the closest thing that might be attainable as a PF fit for us?

The only issue with Isaac is his injury log. His fit in MIN would be excellent. He is basically a young version of KG in smallball era.

Orlando will want too much for such an injury riddled player that is not even an all star in the weak east.

Do you have a specific guess to how much more? They obviously value him more but to what extent?

Many speak of Isaac being injury prone...the only significant injury I see is the hyperextend knee sprain & maybe some relatively minor stuff prior but nothing crazy? At one time, one could say the same about Curry...no?


Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[old school 34]

I'd much rather take Simmons over Booker...also, while some think DLo needs the ball in his hands a ton and not saying that he shouldn't have it at all...but last few years his best #'s come with another PG on the court w/ him...why not have one that could also function as a PF?

Let's not forget that Booker has also been a pretty ball-dominant player. I think the three of them could make it work, but that's one clear difference between Beasley and Booker as SGs.

Fair point....I agree that a Booker, KAT, Dlo trio could work even with 2 being ball dominant but then you say Simmons wouldn't because ball dominant? Is it for you just the fact about the shooting? While Simmons can't provide the shooting...couldn't he offer other things that Booker couldn't...grit, rebounding, and defense (assuming Simmons guards a 4 with us instead)?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[Klomp]

I'd much rather take Simmons over Booker...also, while some think DLo needs the ball in his hands a ton and not saying that he shouldn't have it at all...but last few years his best #'s come with another PG on the court w/ him...why not have one that could also function as a PF?

Let's not forget that Booker has also been a pretty ball-dominant player. I think the three of them could make it work, but that's one clear difference between Beasley and Booker as SGs.

Fair point....I agree that a Booker, KAT, Dlo trio could work even with 2 being ball dominant but then you say Simmons wouldn't because ball dominant? Is it for you just the fact about the shooting? While Simmons can't provide the shooting...couldn't he offer other things that Booker couldn't...grit, rebounding, and defense (assuming Simmons guards a 4 with us instead)?

Didn't even say anything about Simmons.....was only talking about Booker vs. Beasley at SG.

[King Malta]

I think Simmons would be preferable to Booker. D'Lo is definitely ball dominant but he has displayed in recent seasons that he can co-exist with another dominant ball handler and that he can hit shots whilst playing off the ball. Also, having two legitimate go to ball handlers isn't a bad thing IMO.

I'd also like to get a positive defender into this team. As fun as a Booker/KAT/D'Lo trio would be offensively, it would be an absolute clown show on the other side of the ball.

[Jedzz]

I think Simmons would be preferable to Booker. D'Lo is definitely ball dominant but he has displayed in recent seasons that he can co-exist with another dominant ball handler and that he can hit shots whilst playing off the ball. Also, having two legitimate go to ball handlers isn't a bad thing IMO.

I'd also like to get a positive defender into this team. As fun as a Booker/KAT/D'Lo trio would be offensively, it would be an absolute clown show on the other side of the ball.

If Simmons comes, then Malik is a must to stay and get paid somehow. No way do I want to see them backtrack down to only two strong 3pt shoooters. Having Beasley, Dlo, Kat right now in this system of 45 threes has me feeling alright about it all. Any more threes we get from hot/cold inconsistent shooters is just icing. If Beasley gets sign/traded or walks and Wolves are left with Simmons, Dlo, Kat, then the team is back to living and dieing on inconsitent bench shooters for a third offensive player.

I think having three 3pt shooters to rely on carries most defensive weaknesses. They can eat up deficits quickly if needed. I don't hate the idea of Simmons here at all but I'm not giving any really good shooters capable of 40% from 3 for him. I would rather roll with what they have and draft some depth/hope or just trade picks out. It just breaks this system too much when nobody can get a shot to go in. One or two players trying to carry offense just isn't enough. One injury away from being the same team as always. If you can get Simmons and keep Beasley/Dlo/Kat then sure. Some of these guys will just have to learn to share minutes more and I agree Simmons could play some 4 here. But he's likely not better than Gordon at the 4 who can at least occasionally hit 3s.

Simmons literally has made two 3pt shots in his career. People complained about Rubio avoiding and allowing defenses to sag off him. But this is something else entirely. I really wonder if Simmons is just protecting his career numbers while he works on becoming better at 3 outside of prying eyes. One day maybe he starts shooting 3s and can be average and that way not destroy his TS and FG overall numbers before that day comes. He best hurry up though. If he came here playing as usual this team may never reach forty 3s attempted again.

[minimus]

One question. If Giannis does not win in these playoffs and leaves MIL, would you trade our FRP, Culver, JJ, Spellman, Evans, Vanderbilt for Khris Middleton?

Khris Middleton averages 21ppg, 50%FG, 41% from 3pt, 6.2rpg, 4.1apg.

Then draft Kira Lewis Jr and Tyley Bey/Paul Reed. Resign Martin, McLaughlin. Sign Harry Giles to min deal.

KAT/Reid/Giles
Bey/Layman//Giles
Middleton/Martin/Layman
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/McLaughlin/Lewis

[Mattya]

Idk if anyone else brought him up but Marvin Bagley might be available. His value is probably depressed right now and Rosas might be able to buy low on him. I'm not sure he actually fits the team though.

[minimus]

Idk if anyone else brought him up but Marvin Bagley might be available. His value is probably depressed right now and Rosas might be able to buy low on him. I'm not sure he actually fits the team though.

Fit aside, he is exactly that type of young player I would avoid: off court issues, questionable work ethic. We can see in Spellman situation that Rosas wouldn't add someone who can even potentially harm out family like chemistry. Also Divac wouldn't trade someone who Vlade drafted over Doncic.

[Mattya]

Idk if anyone else brought him up but Marvin Bagley might be available. His value is probably depressed right now and Rosas might be able to buy low on him. I'm not sure he actually fits the team though.

Fit aside, he is exactly that type of young player I would avoid: off court issues, questionable work ethic. We can see in Spellman situation that Rosas wouldn't add someone who can even potentially harm out family like chemistry. Also Divac wouldn't trade someone who Vlade drafted over Doncic.

I'm not sure what his off the court issues are. I do agree I could see Vlade being stubborn like that though.

[minimus]

Idk if anyone else brought him up but Marvin Bagley might be available. His value is probably depressed right now and Rosas might be able to buy low on him. I'm not sure he actually fits the team though.

Fit aside, he is exactly that type of young player I would avoid: off court issues, questionable work ethic. We can see in Spellman situation that Rosas wouldn't add someone who can even potentially harm out family like chemistry. Also Divac wouldn't trade someone who Vlade drafted over Doncic.

I'm not sure what his off the court issues are. I do agree I could see Vlade being stubborn like that though.

I meant whole story about Fox and Bagley's dad.