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Trade Talk (Part Four)

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old school 34
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1921 » by old school 34 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:55 am

old school 34 wrote:
Baseline81 wrote:Again, it's mainly to discuss, but here's NBASupes latest post on Hawksquawk:
Back:

I've been told Minny has up to 12 teams who have given them offers for 1st overall. I was told Indy was by far the most interested but was declined as they only want to move one of Turner or Sabonis and that's it. Minny would like Warren and one of them. Indy is willing to trade Warren/Oladipo but Minny wants assurance on Dipo which will not happen and Indy sees Warren as a main piece.

Minny wants a pick swap with a top 8 team and a 2021 lightly protected 1st like Atlanta got from Dallas. I was told, no one was interested. Minny offered Atlanta the pick for a pick swap and Hunter and was quickly declined and they did the same for Kevin H and was quickly declined as Atlanta had no interest in trading anyone in their core. Atlanta did counter with Bruno and #6 and was declined. As of right now, i am told a sitting offer of 1st/James Johnson for #6 and OKC 1st 2022 is the standing offer. They tired the same with NY. Wanted Robinson/#8 for #1 and was declined. NY offered 8/27 for 1st overall as a standing offer.

Most of the teams who have made a standing offer with Minny are drafting outside of the top 10 and are playoff level teams. I was told that the target of that pick varies. I was told, none of the offers are really that attractive and that Minny is hoping a team will fall in love with a prospect and move up as we get closer to the draft. He thinks they will try to go back to Indy to really do a deal as Indy has the best package on the open market. I asked if Minny does just move back, which deal do they like more, ATL or NY. He said he doesn't know but he thinks Atlanta willingness to take on money could swing the pendulum to Atlanta.

He is confident CP3 will end up either in Philly or New York and even more confident NY will get a PG in the draft, via trade or FA. This is why NY isn't hard on moving up to get Ball. They have options. I did asked what would Atlanta do if they landed #1, and he said they will likely flip it. There are some extremely attractive rentals on the open market and this might make Atlanta think about getting one of them considering where they want to go as an org without trading a core piece. No, Giannis is not available, FYI.

Oladipo has the most active market, although the value isn't great in return and he thinks this will open the flood gates for future trades. A lot of contenders and a couple pretenders want Oladipo BAD!
Again....I take the source with a grain of salt & more just a talker...so thanks for sharing....

But if Warren & Dipo are offered up...sure if I could get assurances...great, but end of the day...I'm taking that deal....even if I have to flip Dipo further reduced value...I'm still ahead. Warren is a very good 3/4 type wing that we very much lack on a Roco valued deal....worth the risk. Or if hung up on keeping a top 8 pick in this year's draft...would have to think there's a 3-team deal out there where we still get Warren and said draft pick & 3rd team gets Dipo?

It's not a super-hyped, high PR move but very strong from basketball perspective side imo.

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So playing around with trade machine on the whole 3 team idea...I mentioned above, what about MN/Atl/Ind deal...

MN in: Warren, 6, and new TE

Atl in: Dipo, JJ, and 17

Ind in: 1, Culver, Evans, Spellman and TE

Might need some tweaking as it won't work currently (as Atl...taking salary/expirings with cap space)....

Think it makes a fair amount of sense for each club....maybe we need to improve the filler pieces for Indy...but think it gets us pretty close?

If we could come out with say Warren & Okongwu/Deni/Vassell (15 sec clip not scaring me) type...be good with that & 33.



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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1922 » by Neeva » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:02 am

You are overvaluing oladlipo and warren.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1923 » by SO_MONEY » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:38 pm

old school 34 wrote:
old school 34 wrote:
Baseline81 wrote:Again, it's mainly to discuss, but here's NBASupes latest post on Hawksquawk:
Again....I take the source with a grain of salt & more just a talker...so thanks for sharing....

But if Warren & Dipo are offered up...sure if I could get assurances...great, but end of the day...I'm taking that deal....even if I have to flip Dipo further reduced value...I'm still ahead. Warren is a very good 3/4 type wing that we very much lack on a Roco valued deal....worth the risk. Or if hung up on keeping a top 8 pick in this year's draft...would have to think there's a 3-team deal out there where we still get Warren and said draft pick & 3rd team gets Dipo?

It's not a super-hyped, high PR move but very strong from basketball perspective side imo.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app
So playing around with trade machine on the whole 3 team idea...I mentioned above, what about MN/Atl/Ind deal...

MN in: Warren, 6, and new TE

Atl in: Dipo, JJ, and 17

Ind in: 1, Culver, Evans, Spellman and TE

Might need some tweaking as it won't work currently (as Atl...taking salary/expirings with cap space)....

Think it makes a fair amount of sense for each club....maybe we need to improve the filler pieces for Indy...but think it gets us pretty close?

If we could come out with say Warren & Okongwu/Deni/Vassell (15 sec clip not scaring me) type...be good with that & 33.



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Giving up too much.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1924 » by shrink » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:12 pm

Oladipo’s value is not that high. The scenario where this helps MIN is limited

1. Oladipo needs to get completely healthy, to match his one star season. AND
2. Oladipo needs to sign a long term deal that is reasonable AND
3. Oladipo is a UFA, and he needs to sign that deal with us.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1925 » by Chello1 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:04 am

Neeva wrote:You are overvaluing oladlipo and warren.


BIG TIME!
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1926 » by minimus » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:34 am

Still my favorite trade scenario.

PG13 pick up his 2021-22 PO.

MIN IN: PG13, #13
MIN OUT: #1, JJ, Culver, Spellman, #33

NOP IN: #1 pick, Culver, JJ,
NOP OUT: Jrue Holiday, #13, Evans

LAC IN: Jrue Holiday, Spellman, #33
LAC OUT: PG13

Why for NOP: form Wiseman+Zion froncourt
Why for LAC: get elite defender and comboguard. They will have the best defense in NBA

Draft Kira Lewis Jr, Patrick Williams. Resign Beasley, Juacnho, JMac, Martin

KAT/Reid/Vanderbilt
Vanderbilt/Juacnho/Williams
PG13/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/JMac/Lewis Jr
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1927 » by vtime » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:12 pm

Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1928 » by Domejandro » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:06 pm

minimus wrote:Still my favorite trade scenario.

PG13 pick up his 2021-22 PO.

MIN IN: PG13, #13
MIN OUT: JJ, Culver, Spellman, #33

NOP IN: #1 pick, Culver, JJ,
NOP OUT: Jrue Holiday, #13, Evans

LAC IN: Jrue Holiday, Spellman, #33
LAC OUT: PG13

Why for NOP: form Wiseman+Zion froncourt
Why for LAC: get elite defender and comboguard. They might have the best offense in NBA

Draft Kira Lewis Jr, Patrick Williams. Resign Beasley, Juacnho, JMac, Martin

KAT/Reid/Vanderbilt
Vanderbilt/Juacnho/Williams
PG13/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/JMac/Lewis Jr

The primary issue I see is that Paul George would never relinquish the flexibility of his Player Option, no player would ever do that. Additionally, I do not think this deal would be sufficient enough for the Los Angeles Clippers.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1929 » by Domejandro » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:07 pm

vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?

Probably not, given that I think Minnesota's existing salary commitments make paying John Collins kind of difficult, given that he wants a max.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1930 » by Slim Tubby » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:19 pm

vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?

vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?


Please just stop. If Rosas was open to playing two bigs, our pick would already be cemented in place. Collins is going to want a Max deal or something very close in one year. We would just draft Wiseman, have him on a Rookie contract under team control for years and still have JJ as a valuable trade asset.

We are constantly being told that our #1 Pick is less valuable than most years yet fans from other teams want to trade their “valuable” players for it?

As shrink has pointed out numerous times, the #1 Pick has unmeasurable value because the owner of it controls how the draft unfolds and they are guaranteed to get the player they covet.

I'm personally so sold on Wiseman's talent and upside that I'm positive we screw this up and overthink it...we are the Wolves after all. If ATL offered Collins and #6, I would consider it but that doesn't make a lot of sense for ATL either considering their current roster.


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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1931 » by Chello1 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:07 pm

vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?


NO!
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1932 » by Chello1 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:09 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:
vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?

vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?


Please just stop. If Rosas was open to playing two bigs, our pick would already be cemented in place. Collins is going to want a Max deal or something very close in one year. We would just draft Wiseman, have him on a Rookie contract under team control for years and still have JJ as a valuable trade asset.

We are constantly being told that our #1 Pick is less valuable than most years yet fans from other teams want to trade their “valuable” players for it?

As shrink has pointed out numerous times, the #1 Pick has unmeasurable value because the owner of it controls how the draft unfolds and they are guaranteed to get the player they covet.

I'm personally so sold on Wiseman's talent and upside that I'm positive we screw this up and overthink it...we are the Wolves after all. If ATL offered Collins and #6, I would consider it but that doesn't make a lot of sense for ATL either considering their current roster.


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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1933 » by TheDominator273 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:15 pm

vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?
If #6 is included in the swap absolutely
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1934 » by KGdaBom » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:46 pm

vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?

Collins and 6 yes.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1935 » by jscott » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:28 pm

vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?

Lets be honest, there isn’t much value in “absorbing” an expiring contract. If it was longer term negative money then there is real value.

ATL would need to add. As Slim Tubby said, if the Wolves wanna play two bigs (which is debateable) they’d pick Wiseman and gave him at a cheaper rate with twice the contract control.

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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1936 » by Chello1 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:29 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?

Collins and 6 yes.


Why? You already know what Collins is going to be-- Kevin Love junior.... You have to keep the pick and swing for a superstar. Ball or Wiseman..... We don't need a good player we need a stud on a rookie contract to move forward.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1937 » by Chello1 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:34 pm

The only trade we should make would be for a superstar...... No trades for good players that are about to sign bloated contracts.... The only player that has been rumored in trade talks that I would trade for is Simmons. I consider him a star that is on the verge of becoming a superstar. The rest of this is not enough... Oladipo, Collins etc... Not good enough. We should be thinking about trading up if it is so cheap to move up in this draft. Package 33 and a player to get into the 20-25 range so we have three first round picks in the top 22 or so.... Tons of great depth in this draft. If the rest of the league is underselling than we need to take advantage of that.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1938 » by shrink » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:01 pm

vtime wrote:Would you guys do John Collins for #1 and possibly absorbing Johnson’s expiring deal?

When non-superstars go through free agency, the market re-sets their trade value to neutral or slightly negative.

Why? Say you’re John Collins, and you want to get paid (his people have already said he is looking for the max). Let’s even say he is worth $19 mil a year or MIN (I don’t). What if a team like CHA determines he is worth $23 to them, and offers him $23. Whether ATL matches or not, Collins is now a $23 mil player. How valuable is he to MIN, if he is overpaid to them by $4 mil?

Incidentally, I agree with the other posters here why Collins is not a fit here. MIN doesn’t play two bigs, they don’t want to lock out a third big salary on him and have little flexibility to build the rest of the roster, and the #1 pick has specific value to a team that loves a guy up top and guarantees they get him. That may be MIN picking them for himself, because of the player, and their need for many years of team control.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1939 » by minimus » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:14 pm

minimus wrote:Still my favorite trade scenario.

PG13 pick up his 2021-22 PO.

MIN IN: PG13, #13
MIN OUT: #1, JJ, Culver, Spellman, #33

NOP IN: #1 pick, Culver, JJ,
NOP OUT: Jrue Holiday, #13, Evans

LAC IN: Jrue Holiday, Spellman, #33
LAC OUT: PG13

Why for NOP: form Wiseman+Zion froncourt
Why for LAC: get elite defender and comboguard. They will have the best defense in NBA

Draft Kira Lewis Jr, Patrick Williams. Resign Beasley, Juacnho, JMac, Martin

KAT/Reid/Vanderbilt
Vanderbilt/Juacnho/Williams
PG13/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/JMac/Lewis Jr


I dont think that Stephen A is an NBA expert, but I agree that LAC need a PG, Jrue will be a perfect fit there.


I also think that Jrue will be happy to be traded from NOP to big market team such as LAC.

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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#1940 » by IceManBK1 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:09 pm

https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/10/18/nba-rumors-minnesota-timberwolves-could-land-brandon-ingram-and-create-a-young-superteam/

not legit source...but how about #1, JJ, Culver, Spellman, and Evans for Ingram(reupped with Max), Josh Hart, Derrick Favors would be nice.

Dlo/Okogie
Beasley/Hart
Ingram/Layman
Favors/Huancho
Towns/Reid

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