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Trade Talk (Part Four)

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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#201 » by Neeva » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:12 am

Imagine if wolves drafted Collins over pattin and missed the playoffs in 2018 and drafted michael porter jr with their pick . Rosas would have a crazy amount of assets to play with, smh.
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Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#202 » by minimus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:07 am

shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:1) It is not true that Rosas and Ryan did not play two bigs. There were games with KAT-Reid, and KAT-Bell.


Bell is no center, which Gobert is exclusively. Here are the minutes last season Towns played with

747 minutes: Covington
352 minutes: Graham (sometimes SF)
198 minutes: Layman (sometimes SF)
185 minutes: KBD
102 minutes: Bell

For centers:

10 minutes: Reid
8 minutes: Dieng

The question the poster asked was whether it was likely there was truth in the rumor of Gobert playing with KAT. He did not ask for whether MIN posters would like to see to see two bigs. I am a huge Gobert fan and would love to see him as a Timberwolf, but if the team maintains it’s stance, they aren’t pairing Towns with Gobert. Just because some other player is talented, does not make him realistic here.



1) Bell is a center in MIN system. Again, in MIN system.

2) Gobert had only one year left in contract. It does not make any sense to trade for him, break system and then not being able to pay him next off season.

3) Gobert is a player to build around, not a player to build with. He has specific set of skills both in offense and defense. I don't see how he fits here without breaking changes.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#203 » by shrink » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:54 pm

minimus wrote:1) Bell is a center in MIN system. Again, in MIN system.

I feel like I may be misunderstanding you, because I don’t think this is at all true for the 6’ 8” Bell.

I checked his minutes, and he played 250 minutes alongside Towns, Dieng and Naz.

He played 6 minutes one game without a true center next to him.
minimus wrote:2) Gobert had only one year left in contract. It does not make any sense to trade for him, break system and then not being able to pay him next off season.

3) Gobert is a player to build around, not a player to build with. He has specific set of skills both in offense and defense. I don't see how he fits here without breaking changes.

I agree with both these points. For better or worse, Towns is our center here, and for better or worse, Flip and Rosas have shown zero interest in playing twin towers. Towns has been bad as a center, but I have hope he can improve there with it’s lesser responsibilities. I do not have hope that he (or Gobert), can be the big wing in our system,

Like I said, I love Gobert, but we are building around Towns, and minimus is right .. there is just not a fit here.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#204 » by Klomp » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:16 pm

shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:1) Bell is a center in MIN system. Again, in MIN system.

I feel like I may be misunderstanding you, because I don’t think this is at all true for the 6’ 8” Bell.

I checked his minutes, and he played 250 minutes alongside Towns, Dieng and Naz.

He played 6 minutes one game without a true center next to him.

This is true. However, I believe the overall lack of minutes for him could indicate that he would be a center in the system, but was simply caught in a numbers crunch.

He did offer forward versatility though, with his ability to switch out onto the perimeter. That's something the other three centers don't really provide on the regular.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#205 » by Jedzz » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:52 am

shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:1) Bell is a center in MIN system. Again, in MIN system.

I feel like I may be misunderstanding you, because I don’t think this is at all true for the 6’ 8” Bell.

I checked his minutes, and he played 250 minutes alongside Towns, Dieng and Naz.

He played 6 minutes one game without a true center next to him.
minimus wrote:2) Gobert had only one year left in contract. It does not make any sense to trade for him, break system and then not being able to pay him next off season.

3) Gobert is a player to build around, not a player to build with. He has specific set of skills both in offense and defense. I don't see how he fits here without breaking changes.

I agree with both these points. For better or worse, Towns is our center here, and for better or worse, Flip and Rosas have shown zero interest in playing twin towers. Towns has been bad as a center, but I have hope he can improve there with it’s lesser responsibilities. I do not have hope that he (or Gobert), can be the big wing in our system,

Like I said, I love Gobert, but we are building around Towns, and minimus is right .. there is just not a fit here.


Ok let me get this figured out now. You say Towns sucks as a Center, but he will only play Center and Ryan and Rosas will only play him as Center and with no other big with him. Yet, every other player that simply approaches 6'8 or higher is automatically a Center here, cuz Houston North copy cat and so yeah, that brings me to the real elephant in the room. Towns is too big to play here in Houston North and sucks at Center duties anyway where they would prefer a jack of all trades undersized forward with a last name called Tucker or Trucker to play center. So, I guess it is Trade Towns time, right? If it's all about the system and the system is copy cat Houston then Kat doesn't fit and he must be traded away like Capella was! I mean if small ball is it, then go all the way like Houston is with good reason.

The points in this video made about offensive rating differences with and without Capella makes me think we might run into the same here. For when Towns plays, we are going to play in a way that makes him a feature to the detriment or limiting of others. This is what was happening in Houston so they sent Capella away. Obviously Towns can bring more offense. But we already saw it this season when Towns came back after sickness and the whole team was clicking by then in a different way that he didn't care for. His return wasn't really pretty for the team. It's the one thing I have concerns about going into next season. How this will be worked for best output.

0:59 btw, JMac dunking on Capella. Kids a rockstar.

I really wanted to see the playoffs this season to see if Rockets made the right leap or if they were going to get smacked for it.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#206 » by minimus » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:44 am

shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:1) Bell is a center in MIN system. Again, in MIN system.

I feel like I may be misunderstanding you, because I don’t think this is at all true for the 6’ 8” Bell.

I checked his minutes, and he played 250 minutes alongside Towns, Dieng and Naz.

He played 6 minutes one game without a true center next to him.
minimus wrote:2) Gobert had only one year left in contract. It does not make any sense to trade for him, break system and then not being able to pay him next off season.

3) Gobert is a player to build around, not a player to build with. He has specific set of skills both in offense and defense. I don't see how he fits here without breaking changes.

I agree with both these points. For better or worse, Towns is our center here, and for better or worse, Flip and Rosas have shown zero interest in playing twin towers. Towns has been bad as a center, but I have hope he can improve there with it’s lesser responsibilities. I do not have hope that he (or Gobert), can be the big wing in our system,

Like I said, I love Gobert, but we are building around Towns, and minimus is right .. there is just not a fit here.


I think that it would be irrational if we completely abandon idea of playing two bigs in certain matchups. I just think we need a big who fits next to KAT as rim runner, mobile defender. Just like DAL does with KP and Powell. With all of my respect to Dieng who is bad finisher around the rim and bad defender in space. Gorgui can not catch a lob and finish. MIA use Bam who is dynamic and mobile enough to pair him with Leonard/Olynik. I also think our second big should be appropriately paid. Again, ideally his contract should be similar to Daniel Theiss. I'd be happy if we can get Noel, WCS for Layman type deal.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#207 » by minimus » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:59 pm

Trade scenario to bring here a defensive minded big.

1) Culver, MIN 2020 FRP (Wiseman), Evans, Spellman for Mitchell Robinson, NYK 2020 FRP (#5), LAC 2020 FRP (#27)
Why for NYK: they seem to love bigs, Wiseman is the best big of 2020 class, they also could use three years of remaining Culver contract.
Why for MIN: they might gamble on Mitchell Robinson development in MIN organisation. Vassell might be a missing piece for our defense.

2) JJ, BRO pick #16, SRP for Aaron Gordon

Draft Vassell at 5, Desmond Bane at 27. Sign JMac, Martin.

KAT/Robinson/Reid
Gordon/KAT/Vanderbilt
Vassell/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Bane
DLo/JMac/Nowell
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#208 » by Jedzz » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:15 am

minimus wrote:Trade scenario to bring here a defensive minded big.

1) Culver, MIN 2020 FRP (Wiseman), Evans, Spellman for Mitchell Robinson, NYK 2020 FRP (#5), LAC 2020 FRP (#27)
Why for NYK: they seem to love bigs, Wiseman is the best big of 2020 class, they also could use three years of remaining Culver contract.
Why for MIN: they might gamble on Mitchell Robinson development in MIN organisation. Vassell might be a missing piece for our defense.

2) JJ, BRO pick #16, SRP for Aaron Gordon

Draft Vassell at 5, Desmond Bane at 27. Sign JMac, Martin.

KAT/Robinson/Reid
Gordon/KAT/Vanderbilt
Vassell/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Bane
DLo/JMac/Nowell


Now do one where Wolves and Suns do a supertrade with Jazz moving Kat and Dlo to Jazz, along with Booker. Mitchell and Oneale goes to Suns, and Gobert, Ingles, and Rayjon Tucker come to Wolves. You know we need a SF named Tucker to play center when Gobert is off the court, right? How could we get this done?

Jmac/ (guard draft pick so many wnat)
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
Ingles/Golden Toe
Gordon/Johnson/Reid
Gobert/Tucker/Reid
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#209 » by shangrila » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:41 am

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:Trade scenario to bring here a defensive minded big.

1) Culver, MIN 2020 FRP (Wiseman), Evans, Spellman for Mitchell Robinson, NYK 2020 FRP (#5), LAC 2020 FRP (#27)
Why for NYK: they seem to love bigs, Wiseman is the best big of 2020 class, they also could use three years of remaining Culver contract.
Why for MIN: they might gamble on Mitchell Robinson development in MIN organisation. Vassell might be a missing piece for our defense.

2) JJ, BRO pick #16, SRP for Aaron Gordon

Draft Vassell at 5, Desmond Bane at 27. Sign JMac, Martin.

KAT/Robinson/Reid
Gordon/KAT/Vanderbilt
Vassell/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Bane
DLo/JMac/Nowell


Now do one where Wolves and Suns do a supertrade with Jazz moving Kat and Dlo to Jazz, along with Booker. Mitchell and Oneale goes to Suns, and Gobert, Ingles, and Rayjon Tucker come to Wolves. You know we need a SF named Tucker to play center when Gobert is off the court, right? How could we get this done?

Jmac/ (guard draft pick so many wnat)
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
Ingles/Golden Toe
Gordon/Johnson/Reid
Gobert/Tucker/Reid

Naz a 3rd stringer?

Blasphemy.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#210 » by minimus » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:49 pm

MIN IN: Dejonte Murray
MIN OUT: Culver, MIN FRP, Evans, Spellman, Nowell, MIN SRP

ORL IN: Evans, Spellman, Nowell,
ORL OUT: Aminu, ORL FRP (#15)

SAS IN: Culver, MIN FRP, ORL FRP (#15), Aminu, MIN SRP
SAS OUT: Dejonte Murray

Then JJ to GSW for Iggy TPE.

Draft Tyler Bey.

Sign Martin, JMac for 1+3 deals. Re-sign Juancho for 15mil/3yrs, Beasley 52mil/4yrs.

KAT/Reid/Bey
Bey/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Layman/Martin/Okogie
Okogie/Beasley/DLo
DLo/Murray/McLaughlin
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#211 » by karch34 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:47 pm

I am very wary of players who had success with Spurs succeeding elsewhere and wouldn't look at Culver, #3-7, and #33 being worth the cost of a backup PG even a high end one.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#212 » by Neeva » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:51 am

karch34 wrote:I am very wary of players who had success with Spurs succeeding elsewhere and wouldn't look at Culver, #3-7, and #33 being worth the cost of a backup PG even a high end one.


Same with Boston players. Those players thrive in those systems but on other teams they suck or are average. Ie avery bradley..
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#213 » by Jedzz » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:36 am

shangrila wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:Trade scenario to bring here a defensive minded big.

1) Culver, MIN 2020 FRP (Wiseman), Evans, Spellman for Mitchell Robinson, NYK 2020 FRP (#5), LAC 2020 FRP (#27)
Why for NYK: they seem to love bigs, Wiseman is the best big of 2020 class, they also could use three years of remaining Culver contract.
Why for MIN: they might gamble on Mitchell Robinson development in MIN organisation. Vassell might be a missing piece for our defense.

2) JJ, BRO pick #16, SRP for Aaron Gordon

Draft Vassell at 5, Desmond Bane at 27. Sign JMac, Martin.

KAT/Robinson/Reid
Gordon/KAT/Vanderbilt
Vassell/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Bane
DLo/JMac/Nowell


Now do one where Wolves and Suns do a supertrade with Jazz moving Kat and Dlo to Jazz, along with Booker. Mitchell and Oneale goes to Suns, and Gobert, Ingles, and Rayjon Tucker come to Wolves. You know we need a SF named Tucker to play center when Gobert is off the court, right? How could we get this done?

Jmac/ (guard draft pick so many wnat)
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
Ingles/Golden Toe
Gordon/Johnson/Reid
Gobert/Tucker/Reid

Naz a 3rd stringer?

Blasphemy.


good catch. It was more about fitting in my Tucker name as a joke.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#214 » by karch34 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:31 am

Neeva wrote:
karch34 wrote:I am very wary of players who had success with Spurs succeeding elsewhere and wouldn't look at Culver, #3-7, and #33 being worth the cost of a backup PG even a high end one.


Same with Boston players. Those players thrive in those systems but on other teams they suck or are average. Ie avery bradley..

Yep. Caveat is not for the Kawaii or Tatum's but players maximized under certain systems where its not same as far as system or role with new team,
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#215 » by minimus » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:22 pm

1) We trade Culver, Evans, Spellman, top3, Nowell as part of a three team deal.

MIN IN: NAW, 2020 #13 pick, LAL 2021 FRP pick
MIN OUT: Top3 pick, #34, Culver, Evans, Spellman, Nowell

NOP IN: Beal, Culver, #34
NOP OUT: Jrue Holiday, NAW, NOP 2020 #13 pick, LAL 2021 FRP pick

WAS IN: Top3 pick, Jrue Holiday
WAS OUT: Beal

2) Rosas and JJ rework current contract to 36mil/3yrs. Last year is team option.

3) Draft Saddiq Bey, Tyler Bey

4) Sign Martin, JMac for 1+3 deals. Re-sign Juancho for 15mil/3yrs, Beasley 52mil/4yrs.

KAT/Reid/Tyler Bey
JJ/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Saddiq Bey/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/NAW
DLo/NAW/McLaughlin
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#216 » by Jedzz » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:50 pm

minimus wrote:
KAT/Reid/Tyler Bey
JJ/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Saddiq Bey/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/NAW
DLo/NAW/McLaughlin


Digging a bit here to see why this would work.

A. Why would Bey as a rookie start over Layman?
B. Why would NAW play before McLaughlin as backup point?

Neither of these moves seem to maximize this team.

And why would Wolves trade away a top three pick for NAW and Bey? Are you that high on these two players?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#217 » by minimus » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:55 pm

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
KAT/Reid/Tyler Bey
JJ/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Saddiq Bey/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/NAW
DLo/NAW/McLaughlin


Digging a bit here to see why this would work.

A. Why would Bey as a rookie start over Layman?
B. Why would NAW play before McLaughlin as backup point?

Neither of these moves seem to maximize this team.

And why would Wolves trade away a top three pick for NAW and Bey? Are you that high on these two players?


Oh, yeah. This idea is based on my irrational love for both Tyler Bey and NAW.

I think that Tyler Bey is potential steal, because he has defensive versatility to defend 1-5 position AND his jumper is not broken.

NAW was my 2019 draft favorite. He failed hard in rookie season, but he is a perfect combo guard for current NBA. To make it clear, I think that this 2020 draft top PG Hayes and NAW have same star potential.

Saddiq Bey is far from perfect. But SF is position where we can afford three low profile players. Saddiq will be false starter. Layman will play around 25-30 minutes. The key is to re-work JJ contract. JJ looked like a veteran we need. Also this new 2+1 deal will allow Rosas to trade him as expiring after next season.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#218 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:23 am

Would you guys trade first pick (Edwards) and Johnson for Aaron Gordon and the Magic first pick? We're pretty stacked at the SG-PF position.

They did try to move Gordon at the deadline, so it's possible they'll move him during the draft.


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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#219 » by minimus » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:49 pm

basketballRob wrote:Would you guys trade first pick (Edwards) and Johnson for Aaron Gordon and the Magic first pick? We're pretty stacked at the SG-PF position.

They did try to move Gordon at the deadline, so it's possible they'll move him during the draft.


I personally would trade our FRP for Gordon and ORL FRP, because I think Gordon might be a missing piece for us in our offensive and defensive scheme because of his athletic tools such as exceptional quickness and jumping ability.

Could you please clarify a few question about Gordon for MIN fans?

1) Why his shot selection is so awful? Many fadeway turnaround off balance midrange jumpers, many pullup threes. Is it lack of qualityt shooters, lack of proper coaching, low basketball IQ?

2) Gordon looked like an all-star before hiatus. What was the root cause? Isaac injury?

3) Could you describe Gordon's personality? Many MIN fans still remember low motor, low effort, low basketball IQ type of player in Wiggins. Has Gordon any of these issues?

4) Is his defense is a real deal? Or ORL top5 defense is mostly about coaching?

5) Can he play secondary playmaker? Are his passing, court vision good enough?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#220 » by Mattya » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:52 pm

basketballRob wrote:Would you guys trade first pick (Edwards) and Johnson for Aaron Gordon and the Magic first pick? We're pretty stacked at the SG-PF position.

They did try to move Gordon at the deadline, so it's possible they'll move him during the draft.


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For me, I’m not making that trade if it’s top 3.

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