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Beasley key to draft

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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#21 » by Klomp » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:43 am

Jedzz wrote:
Mattya wrote:I don’t think Beasley has any impact on the Wolves trying to add talent. I think that Beasley would be best in the Eric Gordon/JJ Reddick role off the bench. Very solid starter, but potential 6th man of the year candidate off the bench.


I don't share this thinking at all. If someone thinking like you happens to be pulling any strings while trying to work out a Beasley deal to stay we are likely to lose him and be stuck with another garbage draft rookie that can't shoot and needs work on everthing yet and likely puts in half the effort Beasley does in games. It would be such a step backwards from where they are right now that if that happens I'll be first in line holding the can Rosas signs. I already saw a player he traded up for. I already saw him believe he should insert him into starting lineups in error. Don't want to see this again. I don't know about you and some of the others. But I'm done waiting 5 or more years for the team to figure out what we can already see. I'm done watching scrub developing players start here. That is what bench minutes are for. Either Rosas is the GM that starts doing things better with young draft picks or bring in the next GM. I'm with him if he can improve this.

Show us all the Lebron ready players in this draft that are going to deserve to push Beasley to 6th man. None deserve it, zero have proved it, zero deserve the hype and the projectionss people will offer the top 10 players. You think I'm going to believe the team's judgement again after I saw them hide Culver all offseason and then insert him in starting lineups unready like they did? Beasley has actually earned a starting role by proving skill and working his tail off. I don't care that many here seem to be trying really hard to talk him down and pray they can rip this kid off with a cheezeball deal just so they can go blow the remainder on jokes their imagination is running with right now. Many have had to find more enjoyment in the process of finding players than they could get out of the team playing for ages. I understand it, but to get out of the gutters this team has to change and it starts with the end of rolling a bunch of hope and imagination into a ball and calling them a developing starter.

Beasley was shooting 42.6% threes for us. He's shot over 40% in another season for Denver. This is rarified air your breathing right now with him around here. This is what the system Rosas brought in absolutely needs before all else. Unless you are going to show me a draft pick that can do that right now while offering something additional, don't do it. Please don't even think about it.

I don't think Mattya was arguing we should bench Beasley for a rookie. But if we were able to add a better SG without trading Beasley in the process (which is highly unlikely), Beasley would slide to a 6th man role and improve the team's depth in the process.

The Eric Gordon role off the bench is one I've thought about for Beasley myself. But worth noting Mattya that Gordon has started over half of Houston's games in the past three seasons.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#22 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:50 am

shrink wrote:1. I agree with the OP, that retaining Beasley has an effect on our draft, but if we are at the top of the lottery, it won’t affect us taking the kid that Rosas thinks is the BAP.

2. I suspect we didn’t trade the HOU 1st for Beasley without some expectation we would be able to re-sign him with his Bird rights. This was done before Coronavirus mutilated the BRE, so that the price for free agents came into such question, so who knows now?

3. For those that are new to free agency, there are three groups of teams that can make Beasley offers. The ones over the lux, that can start a deal at $5-6 mil with the tax-payers mid level exception, the teams over the cap but under the lux who can offer the full MLE ($9-$10), and the teams under the cap, who can offer as much cap space as they have. MIN, with his Bird rights, can offer whatever they want, regardless of their cap situation, and with his restricted FA rights, can match any offer he receives from another team.

4. Beasley has never been well paid, so I think he will be attracted to the highest offer - but in a location that gives him the best opportunities for his future contracts. Here in MIN he finally got starter minutes and played fairly well, so I assume that gives us the inside track. I doubt he’d consider a tax-payer MLE deal, the teams under the cap aren’t that exciting, and the final offer will be similar to the full MLE. He’ll try to get a little bit more, to save face from declining the 3 for $30 extension DEN offered him. I think it’s highly likely he stays with us.

5. I know a lot of posters like Beasley, but he is not worth much more than the MLE. Our optimum player would be a guy that’s good at three and D, and with some size to switch onto other players. Beasley is a Good scorer, but he is a below average defender, and he doesn’t have the size to really be more than SG. There are a lot of players in the NBA like this, and if people are willing to accept a guy that is 90% of what Beasley is, you can get them very cheaply.

6. In the end, I hope they have found a piece in Beasley, but his defense next to DeAngelo Russell is worrisome, and he shouldn’t be a lynchpin that we would completely change a course of direction if other opportunities came up.


First 4 points, all good. 5th and 6th, can't agree. It seems to me you are trying to be frugal looking at the Wolves situation. Understandable, but you can't lessen what Beasley is showing in order to do so. The MLE isn't small unless it's changing. But this guy is 100% worth more than that. Would you kick Damien Lillard out of your Timberwolves bed and say, MLE or boot? His defense last few years isn't better than Beasley has been. Dame is more of a glorified shooting guard running point because he's a consistent high competitor and skilled leader with an attitude that needs to be on ball. Beasley could maybe handle a similar role some day for the same reasons but is perfect for the Rosas system right now as a Shooting Guard. Dame religiously attempts 8 threes a game and though close, he's hever averaged 40% in a full season. Beasley has shot 40% in previous seasons and in his very first shot at getting well over 8 attempts per game (when he got here) has him shooting them at 42.6%. Damian was breaking personal highs and in streches maybe chasing accuracy league records the way he shot 3s at times this year, but still didn't reach a 40% average. Dame averages 27Million.

"90%" of what Beasley is showing already at 23 is not easy to find unless you are saying you can get elder Damian Lillard here. I'm with others that say if they are going to utilize Beasley to attempt to get Booker here then well fine, I'll understand - kind of. because of the Towns connection and he would bring shooting as well. Bradley Beal seems like a sidewise move from Beasley and Bradly is now making 25Million. I'm not sure it's wise to do much else besides revel in the fact they found a really good player and just lean on him more and reap the benefits. Pay him something respectable to stay, give him his starting role and run with it. This guy can have a season changing impact for Wolves.

Bradley Beal - 6-3 207, 27 yrs old
career 38% 3pt shots (down to 35 and 37% last three years), Off/Def rating last 2 yrs is 113/114 and 113/117, 8-10 threes att/g

Damian Lillard - 6-2 195, 29 yrs old
career 37.1% 3pt shots (from 36 to 39% past three years), Off/Def rating last 2 yrs is 121/112 and 125/116, , 8-9 threes att/g

Malik Beasley - 6-4 190, 23 years old
career 38.8% 3pt shots (40%, 39%, 36%, 42.6% over past three), Off/Def Rating last few yrs in range of 117-112 to 111/115.
Malik's only two years with 8 to 9 attempts from 3 he has connected between 38.8 and 42.6%. Another yr at 7.8 attempts was over 40%.

If Beasley adds 5-10 more pounds in the next couple years will he finally be worth what Bradley Beal is to some people? Or will he never simply because he wasn't a top 1-6 draft pick?

James Harden, 36% career 3pt shooter, has never averaged 40% in a season. Last 3 seasons avg 10-12 attempts. He shot the same percentage back when only attempting 6 to 9 att/g. He just shots them more than anyone else and styles a beard.
Off/Def rating past two years are 118/108 and 120/109. Harden averages 42 million. Harden might be a good comparison since he didn't get to start for his first few years either. At age 23 he finally started a season with 116/109 off/def rating and he's a gamer competitor as well.

I want to see a full season of Malik Beasley starting at SG here. He's maybe top of my expectations for next season with Dlo/Towns pair not far behind.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#23 » by Calinks » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:52 am

I'm also not saying blow the farm on Beasley, we have to be reasonable. I just think its a mistake to see him as easily replaceable or disposable. We auditioned a ton of wings the last few years and it been a disaster. It isn't easy to get that kind of production. I'd rather pay a fair to slightly higher price for Beasley then go back audtioning Teyvon Grahams, Kelon Martin's Cam Reynlolds' or going back to drafting some athletic kid and having to dump 3 years of development into him and suffer through his terrible play.

We have let so many quality players go and been burned by not getting something as good. We need to start keeping and developing guys with potential. Guys who actually are able to produce.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#24 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:29 am

Calinks wrote:I'm also not saying blow the farm on Beasley, we have to be reasonable. I just think its a mistake to see him as easily replaceable or disposable. We auditioned a ton of wings the last few years and it been a disaster. It isn't easy to get that kind of production. I'd rather pay a fair to slightly higher price for Beasley then go back audtioning Teyvon Grahams, Kelon Martin's Cam Reynlolds' or going back to drafting some athletic kid and having to dump 3 years of development into him and suffer through his terrible play.

We have let so many quality players go and been burned by not getting something as good. We need to start keeping and developing guys with potential. Guys who actually are able to produce.


Cam Reynolds was a player who shot the 3 here very well. He's maybe another example of people not respecting how he got into this league and being tossed aside for it. The team needs to keep these players and develop them from bench roles over time. But guys that are proving they are ready like Beasley need to be kept as for real starters. If it means lux, than it means lux time. All we needed from all those Wiggins shots was a consistent 38-40% and this team would have been competiting in the playoffs. Never got there. Beasley can get them there. Show some belief in him. The 3 for 30 deal from Denver he passed on is 10/yr. 9-10 is the MLE according to shrink. Offering him anywhere from 13-20/yr is a no brainer when you look at what all these silly Max players were doing at age 23 and even what they are doing now. The lack of defensive stardum is the reason you don't have to offer him crazy max deals. It's something for him to work towards yet. Like Beal and even Dame had to before getting really paid top dollar.

The current economic times need to be accounted for obviously and these things have hurt contract years for players before. But if anything, just make the offer a shorter time frame so he can get another shot at more soon. Plead your case to him that way. Or give him earlier player options to bail on a decent length deal. I don't really care if they wrap up 85 on the top 3 players. That's what they need to do since they decided the Towns/Dlo deals are something they wanted. Those two alone aren't playoff bound. Those two plus a developing couple of half wit rookies isn't enough either. Beasley is enough to elevate them. No I'm not in favor of nearly another Max. But if anyone is earning one it could be this guy.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#25 » by Neeva » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:42 am

Calinks wrote:I'm also not saying blow the farm on Beasley, we have to be reasonable. I just think its a mistake to see him as easily replaceable or disposable. We auditioned a ton of wings the last few years and it been a disaster. It isn't easy to get that kind of production. I'd rather pay a fair to slightly higher price for Beasley then go back audtioning Teyvon Grahams, Kelon Martin's Cam Reynlolds' or going back to drafting some athletic kid and having to dump 3 years of development into him and suffer through his terrible play.

We have let so many quality players go and been burned by not getting something as good. We need to start keeping and developing guys with potential. Guys who actually are able to produce.


Wolves have been burned just as badly by overpaying for players who weren’t as good as their contracts.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#26 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 6:18 am

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Mattya wrote:I don’t think Beasley has any impact on the Wolves trying to add talent. I think that Beasley would be best in the Eric Gordon/JJ Reddick role off the bench. Very solid starter, but potential 6th man of the year candidate off the bench.


I don't share this thinking at all. If someone thinking like you happens to be pulling any strings while trying to work out a Beasley deal to stay we are likely to lose him and be stuck with another garbage draft rookie that can't shoot and needs work on everthing yet and likely puts in half the effort Beasley does in games. It would be such a step backwards from where they are right now that if that happens I'll be first in line holding the can Rosas signs. I already saw a player he traded up for. I already saw him believe he should insert him into starting lineups in error. Don't want to see this again. I don't know about you and some of the others. But I'm done waiting 5 or more years for the team to figure out what we can already see. I'm done watching scrub developing players start here. That is what bench minutes are for. Either Rosas is the GM that starts doing things better with young draft picks or bring in the next GM. I'm with him if he can improve this.

Show us all the Lebron ready players in this draft that are going to deserve to push Beasley to 6th man. None deserve it, zero have proved it, zero deserve the hype and the projectionss people will offer the top 10 players. You think I'm going to believe the team's judgement again after I saw them hide Culver all offseason and then insert him in starting lineups unready like they did? Beasley has actually earned a starting role by proving skill and working his tail off. I don't care that many here seem to be trying really hard to talk him down and pray they can rip this kid off with a cheezeball deal just so they can go blow the remainder on jokes their imagination is running with right now. Many have had to find more enjoyment in the process of finding players than they could get out of the team playing for ages. I understand it, but to get out of the gutters this team has to change and it starts with the end of rolling a bunch of hope and imagination into a ball and calling them a developing starter.

Beasley was shooting 42.6% threes for us. He's shot over 40% in another season for Denver. This is rarified air your breathing right now with him around here. This is what the system Rosas brought in absolutely needs before all else. Unless you are going to show me a draft pick that can do that right now while offering something additional, don't do it. Please don't even think about it.

I don't think Mattya was arguing we should bench Beasley for a rookie. But if we were able to add a better SG without trading Beasley in the process (which is highly unlikely), Beasley would slide to a 6th man role and improve the team's depth in the process.

The Eric Gordon role off the bench is one I've thought about for Beasley myself. But worth noting Mattya that Gordon has started over half of Houston's games in the past three seasons.


Yes they've made a lot of use out of Gordon. But it's maybe easier to shift him to 6th man at times when you have Harden shooting 12-15 threes and onball 90% of the time and it's so often just about him.

That's exactly what he's saying though. It has to be a rookie he's talking about. We need to pay Beasley something decent to stay. There really is no forgoing this. Even if they somehow got away with getting him to accept the 10/yr he turned down in Denver, who could you afford that is better than him and pay along with him. I think he turned down 3/30 because that team wasn't letting him start just as much as they weren't offering more per year or a long enough deal. But let's just look around for a second and try to find one that really is much better. Beal really isn't better, he's just more seasoned now and actually falling off a bit the past few seasons. Beal is a really good comparison to what Beasley is or soon will be once starting full seasons. Booker? Is he better? These guys aren't automatically better and we couldn't pay either of them along with Beasley. It's not a realistic thought. It's certainly not a fair thought to Beasley.

So since we are talking about lobbing another bet on a rookie and pushing Beasley down to bench roles, I object. I couldn't care one bit about the bench if we don't have enough true starters starting. It might be different if Towns was actually Gobert and Dlo was actually Steph Curry. But there are not enough starters on this team that are actually playing consistent top shelf for their position to say you have the luxury of this silly idea of limiting Beasley into the bench roles simply to help make your bench viable. Dlo is good, I like him as a player but he's the best we could get, not the best. Towns is not the best, he's the best Wolves could get. Neither are super team leading competitors yet. Neither are uber two way stars. Neither are automatic enough shooting, they are just good. So we need another threat as a starter to really be viable. This team 100% has always needed someone at SG that can shoot exactly like Beasley is showing he can. The great news is, he's not a soft player. He's not a 35 year old Kevin Martin. He's not a 70% effort Wiggins with questionable game IQ. It would be an epic travesty to pull this garbage on a player they finally get their hands on that is real. Don't you think?

Eric Gordon is a career 37% 3pt shooter that has started 509 of 663 games over his 12 seasons. With highs once averaging 44% from 3 for New Orleans and lows like this year making 31%. I suppose when you've been carrying trashy teams all your career and then turning 30 you become a target for good teams to add cheaper good players to 6th man plus roles to make playoff runs. But what is cheaper for an aging 37% shooter? He averages 13 Million in his 30s. That's what they paid him 3 or 4 years ago. Granted we are in recession times again. But I think you can see Gordon's timing coming to Rockets as different than Beasley who is really just getting his career really going.

We are talking about a 23 year old that just proved he belongs as a starter now. Why would I want to treat him like an aging vet addon, replace him with one, or replace him with a 19-20 clusterfk? With Dlo, Beasley and Towns, you are giving the opposition three serious targets to defend against. Good luck. Drop him out of starting and now you are back to a PG/C shooting threats and more chasing draft picks.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#27 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 6:47 am

Neeva wrote:
Calinks wrote:I'm also not saying blow the farm on Beasley, we have to be reasonable. I just think its a mistake to see him as easily replaceable or disposable. We auditioned a ton of wings the last few years and it been a disaster. It isn't easy to get that kind of production. I'd rather pay a fair to slightly higher price for Beasley then go back audtioning Teyvon Grahams, Kelon Martin's Cam Reynlolds' or going back to drafting some athletic kid and having to dump 3 years of development into him and suffer through his terrible play.

We have let so many quality players go and been burned by not getting something as good. We need to start keeping and developing guys with potential. Guys who actually are able to produce.


Wolves have been burned just as badly by overpaying for players who weren’t as good as their contracts.


That's true. But not a single one of those ever averaged 40% shooting from 3, and none of them short maybe Wiggins were around when the the big Rosas scheme of 3s started.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#28 » by minimus » Wed Jul 1, 2020 9:44 am

shrink wrote:5. I know a lot of posters like Beasley, but he is not worth much more than the MLE. Our optimum player would be a guy that’s good at three and D, and with some size to switch onto other players. Beasley is a Good scorer, but he is a below average defender, and he doesn’t have the size to really be more than SG. There are a lot of players in the NBA like this, and if people are willing to accept a guy that is 90% of what Beasley is, you can get them very cheaply.

6. In the end, I hope they have found a piece in Beasley, but his defense next to DeAngelo Russell is worrisome, and he shouldn’t be a lynchpin that we would completely change a course of direction if other opportunities came up.


I think Beasley is worth more than MLE. The problem with MIN is that we have been playing too many scorers at wings for years, while there was no elite shooter. Kevin Martin, Wiggins, Butler etc. Only LaVine was supposed to be that player before injury and trade. But Beasley is an elite shooter, not only a good scorer. The way he scores makes me believe that in our scheme he will be an efficient offensive player, for years there was no player who can hit catch and shoot 3s consistently. Yes, his slashing ability is very limited, as well as his defense, but I see his motor, aggressiveness, effort which results in a very solid rebounding rate and constant off-ball movement. This guy is worth more than MLE. The kid has heart and 3pt shot, two things that we were missing for years.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#29 » by shrink » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:10 pm

Jedzz wrote:Show us all the Lebron ready players in this draft that are going to deserve to push Beasley to 6th man.

Do you think this argument is fair?
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#30 » by shrink » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:28 pm

minimus wrote:But Beasley is an elite shooter, not only a good scorer.

Let’s pump the brakes a bit here. Beasley is a good shooter, not elite. Last year, Beasley shot 38.8%, which was 47th in the NBA. 38.8% is also his career average.

In addition, 3 point percentage is one of the most variable stats because of smaller sample size, and we want to extrapolate his 14 games here at 42.6% to believe he’ll be a 42.6% three point shooter. Towns isn’t even a career 40% three point shooter, so I doubt 42.6% is likely to be who he is forever.

Now, I am a big advocate of adding better three point shooting, and 38.8% is pretty good, but 47th doesn’t get you to the elite level.

I agree with you though that he may get a deal slightly above the MLE. I am concerned that it will be a deal we regret.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#31 » by minimus » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:40 pm

shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:But Beasley is an elite shooter, not only a good scorer.

Let’s pump the brakes a bit here. Beasley is a good shooter, not elite. Last year, Beasley shot 38.8%, which was 47th in the NBA. 38.8% is also his career average.

In addition, 3 point percentage is one of the most variable stats because of smaller sample size, and we want to extrapolate his 14 games here at 42% to believe he’ll be a 42.6% three point shooter. Towns isn’t even a career 40% three point shooter, so I doubt 42.6% is likely to be who he is forever.

Now, I am a big advocate of adding better three point shooting, and 38.8% is pretty good, but 47th doesn’t get you to the elite level.

I agree with you though that he may get a deal slightly above the MLE. I am concerned that it will be a deal we regret.


When I say that he is an elite shooter, I mainly wrote about those little things that make players elite shooters:

* - footwork. Beasley is balanced when he shoots, he hops before catching the ball, his legs are in perfect, wide (therefore stable) shooting position
* - extreme self-confidence
* - perfect shooting release
* - shooting touch

Also, Beasley is a plus athlete.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#32 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:42 pm

shrink wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Show us all the Lebron ready players in this draft that are going to deserve to push Beasley to 6th man.

Do you think this argument is fair?


Yes. Because to unseat a perfectly capable elite shooter from the shooting guard position any draft pick blindly chosen to do so sure better be a sure thing like Lebron was coming into the league. Nearly every other draft pick is a crapshoot.

The most amazing part is that Beasley didn't come into league as a top 5 pick and this is really the only reason his first new extension or contract isn't automatically in talks for Max or near max somewhere in the league. If he was drafted top 5 or 6, Denver likely Max extends him and either keeps or trades that value at that level. Instead, things being as stupid as they are for players drafted later, Denver attempted to keep him around on the cheap. Nobody shooting at that level in the NBA deserves to be slighted. They don't deserve that treatment and we shouldn't expect them to appreciate it or want to stay when your team does it. The absolute nerve of people talking about sliding him back to bench in order for a rookie to start instead would demand a Lebron example.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#33 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:52 pm

shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:But Beasley is an elite shooter, not only a good scorer.

Let’s pump the brakes a bit here. Beasley is a good shooter, not elite. Last year, Beasley shot 38.8%, which was 47th in the NBA. 38.8% is also his career average.

In addition, 3 point percentage is one of the most variable stats because of smaller sample size, and we want to extrapolate his 14 games here at 42.6% to believe he’ll be a 42.6% three point shooter. Towns isn’t even a career 40% three point shooter, so I doubt 42.6% is likely to be who he is forever.

Now, I am a big advocate of adding better three point shooting, and 38.8% is pretty good, but 47th doesn’t get you to the elite level.

I agree with you though that he may get a deal slightly above the MLE. I am concerned that it will be a deal we regret.


His career average as a bench sub. The moment he got more he jacked that percentage above 42%. It did not go down. He also has averaged over 40% in a season. Name all the greats playing now that even have. He's in that tier of shooter. It's not like when he averaged 40% he was only attempting 1 a game. This is a real example.

He's an elite shooter in this league.

shrink wrote:and we want to extrapolate his 14 games here at 42.6% to believe he’ll be a 42.6% three point shooter.


Do you think this argument is fair? Umm no. "We" are not suggesting he's automatically going to be 42.6 for the remainder of time in Minnesota. That's just you playing a wee bit a funny business, yeah?

What you can take from that number, like mentioned already, is that the moment he was handed starts and more 3s, that number went up, his involvement going up improved him. It didn't drop through the floor like often is the case with others.

Given he's shot 40% in a season prior at just over 7 attempts per game, to show us 42.6% when attempting 8.8 shots per game is a nice little indicator of an Elite NBA shooter.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#34 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:14 pm

shrink wrote:
I agree with you though that he may get a deal slightly above the MLE. I am concerned that it will be a deal we regret.


How can you ever regret it if he's shooting anywhere consistently form 38-42%? I don't care what you pay him. If he's shooting that well and your team is hurting, then let him shoot some more to help you out.

It's not like we are talking about a serious questionable performance of 1 year out of four like a certain other player mentioned recently that only has one season out of four where he reached 38%. While the other threee seasons he was a 31% and 34% shooter. That would be a different scenario. Beasley's worst average so far was a partial season at 36%, that he finished out at 42.6% with brand new players and scheme around him and that's how gets to 38.8 this year.

You need to admit that your only angle on this is from a overal team financial standpoint. It's not about trying to cheapen what he's already proven in repeated years. This is and will be about Beasley who hasn't got his big pay day yet from this league. If Durant wants to sign one year deals to fit himself into a championship team he can do so more easily as an already uber paid player in the past. To ask a player capable of 7-10 3s a game at 40% to sign a long term deal at 10/per wihtout instant player outs every season and balloooning escalators written in would just be unrealistic and unfair and frankly probably damage the view of the Timberwolves in other players eyes. Do you really want to hoist Rosas on your shoulders and claim he won by forcing Beasley to take 10/yr. like he didn't want to in Denver? Is that really wise?
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#35 » by Mattya » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:22 pm

shrink wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Show us all the Lebron ready players in this draft that are going to deserve to push Beasley to 6th man.

Do you think this argument is fair?


It’s typical arguments from him. Strawman and make some extreme riff on your take so that he can make it into whatever argument he wants to make. Not getting pulled into arguing things I didn’t say,
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#36 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 1, 2020 10:59 pm

Mattya wrote:
shrink wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Show us all the Lebron ready players in this draft that are going to deserve to push Beasley to 6th man.

Do you think this argument is fair?


It’s typical arguments from him. Strawman and make some extreme riff on your take so that he can make it into whatever argument he wants to make. Not getting pulled into arguing things I didn’t say,


Nothing strawman there. I don't want a single draft pick from this draft to get lofted into Beasleys starting position based on nothing but idiotic projections of his future or some kind of claim about how great he was in training camps. Find a Lebron if you wan to unseat a young 40% SG.

Typical from some of you though. To totally leave your arguments and start trying to attack character of posters when your arguments don't hold water.

Ask shrink about his little strawman attempt earlier today, same thread. See if you can find that smart guy.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#37 » by Klomp » Wed Jul 1, 2020 11:43 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Neeva wrote:
Calinks wrote:I'm also not saying blow the farm on Beasley, we have to be reasonable. I just think its a mistake to see him as easily replaceable or disposable. We auditioned a ton of wings the last few years and it been a disaster. It isn't easy to get that kind of production. I'd rather pay a fair to slightly higher price for Beasley then go back audtioning Teyvon Grahams, Kelon Martin's Cam Reynlolds' or going back to drafting some athletic kid and having to dump 3 years of development into him and suffer through his terrible play.

We have let so many quality players go and been burned by not getting something as good. We need to start keeping and developing guys with potential. Guys who actually are able to produce.


Wolves have been burned just as badly by overpaying for players who weren’t as good as their contracts.


That's true. But not a single one of those ever averaged 40% shooting from 3, and none of them short maybe Wiggins were around when the the big Rosas scheme of 3s started.

Case in point: Had Minnesota played out the rest of its schedule and Beasley maintained his 3-point volume and efficiency numbers, Beasley would be 39th in franchise history in career 3-pointers made and just outside the Top 10 in single season 3-pointers made.....in just 32 games played.
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Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#38 » by Mattya » Thu Jul 2, 2020 1:29 am

Jedzz wrote:
Mattya wrote:
shrink wrote:Do you think this argument is fair?


It’s typical arguments from him. Strawman and make some extreme riff on your take so that he can make it into whatever argument he wants to make. Not getting pulled into arguing things I didn’t say,


Nothing strawman there. I don't want a single draft pick from this draft to get lofted into Beasleys starting position based on nothing but idiotic projections of his future or some kind of claim about how great he was in training camps. Find a Lebron if you wan to unseat a young 40% SG.

Typical from some of you though. To totally leave your arguments and start trying to attack character of posters when your arguments don't hold water.

Ask shrink about his little strawman attempt earlier today, same thread. See if you can find that smart guy.


So here is my exact quote

Mattya wrote:I don’t think Beasley has any impact on the Wolves trying to add talent. I think that Beasley would be best in the Eric Gordon/JJ Reddick role off the bench. Very solid starter, but potential 6th man of the year candidate off the bench.


find where I said he should lose his starting role to a draft pick. You won't.

A legitimate post would be to ask who I wanted to replace Beasley in the starting lineup with or maybe when I thought that would happen. Instead, you used a straw man to argue this garbage rant you have been on for months about rookies needing to earn minutes, when I DIDN'T EVEN ARGUE IT. Then you added some nonsense about Lebron.

what is this line even about

I don't want a single draft pick from this draft to get lofted into Beasleys starting position based on nothing but idiotic projections of his future or some kind of claim about how great he was in training camps


Like what imaginary person are you debating, because this is stuff I never said but, sure
Nothing strawman there.


You have to be delusional.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#39 » by Jedzz » Thu Jul 2, 2020 2:39 am

Mattya wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Mattya wrote:
It’s typical arguments from him. Strawman and make some extreme riff on your take so that he can make it into whatever argument he wants to make. Not getting pulled into arguing things I didn’t say,


Nothing strawman there. I don't want a single draft pick from this draft to get lofted into Beasleys starting position based on nothing but idiotic projections of his future or some kind of claim about how great he was in training camps. Find a Lebron if you wan to unseat a young 40% SG.

Typical from some of you though. To totally leave your arguments and start trying to attack character of posters when your arguments don't hold water.

Ask shrink about his little strawman attempt earlier today, same thread. See if you can find that smart guy.


So here is my exact quote

Mattya wrote:I don’t think Beasley has any impact on the Wolves trying to add talent. I think that Beasley would be best in the Eric Gordon/JJ Reddick role off the bench. Very solid starter, but potential 6th man of the year candidate off the bench.


find where I said he should lose his starting role to a draft pick. You won't.

A legitimate post would be to ask who I wanted to replace Beasley in the starting lineup with.


Right. We are going to trade for Beal, pay him 25 million. Get Beasley to play for 1Mil so he can play on the bench. I get your dreams now. Carry on.

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lieing sack of dung. I know you have a rookie in your heart behind that thought.
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Re: Beasley key to draft 

Post#40 » by shrink » Thu Jul 2, 2020 2:45 am

Jedzz wrote:
shrink wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Show us all the Lebron ready players in this draft that are going to deserve to push Beasley to 6th man.

Do you think this argument is fair?


Yes. Because to unseat a perfectly capable elite shooter from the shooting guard position any draft pick blindly chosen to do so sure better be a sure thing like Lebron was coming into the league. Nearly every other draft pick is a crapshoot.

The most amazing part is that Beasley didn't come into league as a top 5 pick and this is really the only reason his first new extension or contract isn't automatically in talks for Max or near max somewhere in the league. If he was drafted top 5 or 6, Denver likely Max extends him and either keeps or trades that value at that level. Instead, things being as stupid as they are for players drafted later, Denver attempted to keep him around on the cheap. Nobody shooting at that level in the NBA deserves to be slighted. They don't deserve that treatment and we shouldn't expect them to appreciate it or want to stay when your team does it. The absolute nerve of people talking about sliding him back to bench in order for a rookie to start instead would demand a Lebron example.

LOL! I gave you the chance to step back, and you doubled-down.

No player would ever lose his starting role if the standard is “his replacement must be as good as LeBron coming out of the draft.”

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