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"Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo"

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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#21 » by minimus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:08 am

A few things to remember:

1) our team lacks experience. Many fans mentioned that playoff experience might be beneficial for development of our young players. Campazzo has experience of playing at highest level as a lead ballhandler in Europe. He is running RM offense. That type of organizations/teams represent highest possible level of basketball outside of NBA. Any ballhandler basically translates coaching plan to other players on the floor, he shares his wisdom. I remember that there was a joke, that many players owe their big contracts to Kidd, Nash, because elite passers make other player better. When playmaker shares the ball, involves others his help young players to get valuable experience. In some sense he shares his experience with other players. Even if we dont sign Campazzo I am very happy to see Rosas exploring European players.

2) In order to execute on the floor you need a ballhandler. We have seen this many times with MIN when Teague, Barea, Rose, JC, LaVine were asked to be play that role, our offense was hard to watch. Having DLo + another solid ballhandler allows us to run, execute offense all 48 minutes. We can run OUR offensive system, not something that opponent allows us. Just imagine us going from last year Teague/Napier/JMac to hopefully DLo/Campazzo(JMac) is a big step forward. Prigioni + Campazzo connection might be beneficial for us.

3) These rumors make me assume that Rosas might see our situation next season as development year as well. Let me explain. There are scenarios were we bring here established players/veterans who will need a bigger role in offense, something like Thibs did when he brought here Butler. I think Rosas would trade for Butler type of player as well, if he could, but it is not realistic scenario. Bringing here Campazzo wont shift any of our development paths for young player, moreover it might speed up their development. Because Campazzo is high level passer and decision maker, PnR creator. For instance, you pair him with totally unexperienced Vanderbilt and Campazzo will make life easier for Jarred. Same thing with Nowell, Reid etc. It is like having backbone for our team offense.

P.S. I am big JMac fan, but we all know that he can leave if he gets better deal. I think that at the end of the day Campazzo is a Plan B for Rosas. But I am extremely satisfied that our FO is being proactive in building our roster. Especially such critical for us position as backup ballhandler. It was reported that Killian Hayes was going to be interviewed by MIN. It makes me believe that Rosas will have a few scenarios for MIN this offseason.

P.P.S. Campazzo is small, but he is far from bad defender. Actually, he is one of the best defenders at his position in Europe.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#22 » by packforfreedom » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:23 am

Not a fan of ~30 years old undersized PGs with no NBA experience
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#23 » by minimus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:11 am

One thing I forgot to mention. I think our five-out system combined with NBA spacing would be beneficial for Campazzo because of his playing style. Surround him with shooters and alley-oop targets and he will hit them with fancy passes.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#24 » by packforfreedom » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:33 am

would it though? I am by no means an expert on european basketball, but he doesn't seem to be threat attacking the rim, which devalues his role as a ballhandler in a 5 Out System, I think.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#25 » by minimus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:20 am

packforfreedom wrote:would it though? I am by no means an expert on european basketball, but he doesn't seem to be threat attacking the rim, which devalues his role as a ballhandler in a 5 Out System, I think.




JJ Barea has similar measurements, still he is able to contribute as 34yo backup ballhandler. I always wonder why I hated Barea as backup PG in MIN, but he has been solid in DAL. The answer is coaching, offensive scheme and lack of quality shooters/roll bigs. I agree that Campazzo is not good at finishing at rim, however being small and quick opens for him some advantages, for instance tall players do not have eye control of his dribbling or passing lanes. He has enough slashing abilities to keep defense honest, while his playmaking will be his best weapon. I also like that fact that he is a fierce competitor. We need guys with that passion and fire. This guy definitely has heart.

P.S. He also will play here as backup PG. So I'd lower my expectation. He is not full time starter in NBA.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#26 » by packforfreedom » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:13 pm

Barea especially for his size is great at getting to the rim and finishing so I don't get the comparison. From what I've read and seen, I think Campazzo is a third string PG in this league, who will be very overprized.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#27 » by minimus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:40 pm

packforfreedom wrote:Barea especially for his size is great at getting to the rim and finishing so I don't get the comparison. From what I've read and seen, I think Campazzo is a third string PG in this league, who will be very overprized.


Have you watched Barea video above? 6 assists, 1 fadeway jumper in the paint, 3 spot up jumpshots, 2 layups. It was a balanced game. Once Barea starts to go crazy, or when he must create for others, he turns into low efficient scorer as well. My opinion on Campazzo as backup PG depends on price. Rosas is a good negotiator and there are a few reasons why Campazzo to MIN rumours appear. He is 29yo, he does not have much time to prove himself in NBA and get multiyear deal. In current NBA situation future FA deals will be negotiated because of financial context. Prigioni as assistant coach might also help Campazzo to adopt to NBA game. Also Campazzo will need to get a NBA team who are willing to sign him long-term, since 6mil buyout is big money for European player.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#28 » by Jedzz » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:15 pm

minimus wrote:2) In order to execute on the floor you need a ballhandler. We have seen this many times with MIN when Teague, Barea, Rose, JC, LaVine were asked to be play that role, our offense was hard to watch. Having DLo + another solid ballhandler allows us to run, execute offense all 48 minutes. We can run OUR offensive system, not something that opponent allows us. Just imagine us going from last year Teague/Napier/JMac to hopefully DLo/Campazzo(JMac) is a big step forward. Prigioni + Campazzo connection might be beneficial for us.

This is just getting ridiculous. So you are saying JMac can't handle the ball, can't lead an offense, can't run OUR offence? What exactly did he shove down the face of the clippers? JMac shoved his offense down their face and brought the Wolves entire team along with him. Are we supposed to just forget it like many of you have?
minimus wrote:P.S. I am big JMac fan, but we all know that he can leave if he gets better deal. I think that at the end of the day Campazzo is a Plan B for Rosas. But I am extremely satisfied that our FO is being proactive in building our roster. Especially such critical for us position as backup ballhandler. It was reported that Killian Hayes was going to be interviewed by MIN. It makes me believe that Rosas will have a few scenarios for MIN this offseason.

P.P.S. Campazzo is small, but he is far from bad defender. Actually, he is one of the best defenders at his position in Europe.


No, you don't fully respect JMac and what he is capable of. You aren't a fan or proponent of his because what you are saying proves it. No proponent of his would look at what he showed last year and suggest he is only worth a 1+3 or let him walk, go on to look for any other to replace his time with, and only look at him as worthy of a 3rd PG role or worse.

Why is Compazzo worth 10 million to play backup pg here but you and others can't fathom only paying even a small multi year deal to JMac to play first backup here? Only one of them has NBA experience right now. This is just like people annointing draft picks into high playing roles over players like JMac. So many Wolves fans deserve to see them lose forever. Building a team means holding onto your true basketball players at this level and working on replacing those that can't hack it. Why are so many of you focusing on the wrong positions and wrong players? Teague and Barea, rookie LaVine, Napier, None of those players are here anymore. They've already been upgraded on! Stop the rotating of players already and go focus elsewhere.

The unproven players are: Fill in this space for yourselves. Then congratulate the team when they focus on upgrading those players.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#29 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:41 pm

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:2) In order to execute on the floor you need a ballhandler. We have seen this many times with MIN when Teague, Barea, Rose, JC, LaVine were asked to be play that role, our offense was hard to watch. Having DLo + another solid ballhandler allows us to run, execute offense all 48 minutes. We can run OUR offensive system, not something that opponent allows us. Just imagine us going from last year Teague/Napier/JMac to hopefully DLo/Campazzo(JMac) is a big step forward. Prigioni + Campazzo connection might be beneficial for us.

This is just getting ridiculous. So you are saying JMac can't handle the ball, can't lead an offense, can't run OUR offence? What exactly did he shove down the face of the clippers? JMac shoved his offense down their face and brought the Wolves entire team along with him. Are we supposed to just forget it like many of you have?
minimus wrote:P.S. I am big JMac fan, but we all know that he can leave if he gets better deal. I think that at the end of the day Campazzo is a Plan B for Rosas. But I am extremely satisfied that our FO is being proactive in building our roster. Especially such critical for us position as backup ballhandler. It was reported that Killian Hayes was going to be interviewed by MIN. It makes me believe that Rosas will have a few scenarios for MIN this offseason.

P.P.S. Campazzo is small, but he is far from bad defender. Actually, he is one of the best defenders at his position in Europe.


No, you don't fully respect JMac and what he is capable of. You aren't a fan or proponent of his because what you are saying proves it. No proponent of his would look at what he showed last year and suggest he is only worth a 1+3 or let him walk, go on to look for any other to replace his time with, and only look at him as worthy of a 3rd PG role or worse.

Why is Compazzo worth 10 million to play backup pg here but you and others can't fathom only paying even a small multi year deal to JMac to play first backup here? Only one of them has NBA experience right now. This is just like people annointing draft picks into high playing roles over players like JMac. So many Wolves fans deserve to see them lose forever. Building a team means holding onto your true basketball players at this level and working on replacing those that can't hack it. Why are so many of you focusing on the wrong positions and wrong players? Teague and Barea, rookie LaVine, Napier, None of those players are here anymore. They've already been upgraded on! Stop the rotating of players already and go focus elsewhere.

The unproven players are: Fill in this space for yourselves. Then congratulate the team when they focus on upgrading those players.

I haven't read one person say we should pay $10 million a year for Campazzo. I'm suggesting $6 million per year. I agree with you that JMac is deserving of better than a 1+3. When we have them both they can battle it out for the backup PG role.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#30 » by Jedzz » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:52 pm

KGdaBom wrote:I haven't read one person say we should pay $10 million a year for Campazzo. I'm suggesting $6 million per year. I agree with you that JMac is deserving of better than a 1+3. When we have them both they can battle it out for the backup PG role.


To get out of his Real Madrid contract it's been said the player has to Buy Out 6 million EUROS and his new team can only pay 750k towards that buyout. So, the Wolves would have to pay Compazzo as part of his contract at least 7 million US dollars solely for the purpose of him taking that 7 Mil US dollars and Buying out the 6 Mil Euros. Of course, there is a boatload of income taxes on 7 Million dollars. So it might mean they have to cover much more to clear the 6mil euros. But I don't know how taxes impact international players so I'm not including that yet. On top of that, the team needs to pay him some kind of NBA worthy salary to bother to come play here. I'm guessing that is a minimum of 3 to 4 million a season. So that first year Wolves are paying him 10-11 million or more. That jive for you?
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#31 » by Jedzz » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:01 pm

I'm oinly going off a couple news articles so I don't know if the numbers are accurate.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#32 » by minimus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:41 pm

Jedzz wrote:...

I wish we have signed JMac to Hinkie deal last year. However, there is a scenario where he leaves MIN for better deal. In this scenario, I prefer to have alternative solution to our backup ballhandler problem. With regard to financial implications I still think that Rosas and Gupta are smarter than me, so I am sure they won't pay backup PG 10mil per year.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#33 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:43 pm

Jedzz wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I haven't read one person say we should pay $10 million a year for Campazzo. I'm suggesting $6 million per year. I agree with you that JMac is deserving of better than a 1+3. When we have them both they can battle it out for the backup PG role.


To get out of his Real Madrid contract it's been said the player has to Buy Out 6 million EUROS and his new team can only pay 750k towards that buyout. So, the Wolves would have to pay Compazzo as part of his contract at least 7 million US dollars solely for the purpose of him taking that 7 Mil US dollars and Buying out the 6 Mil Euros. Of course, there is a boatload of income taxes on 7 Million dollars. So it might mean they have to cover much more to clear the 6mil euros. But I don't know how taxes impact international players so I'm not including that yet. On top of that, the team needs to pay him some kind of NBA worthy salary to bother to come play here. I'm guessing that is a minimum of 3 to 4 million a season. So that first year Wolves are paying him 10-11 million or more. That jive for you?

It jives a bit. As you have stated the Wolves can't pay the buyout so Campazzo has to do it. So Campazzo needs to get enough in his contract here to make it worth his while. I don't think he has to pay the entire buyout out of his first contract. He can probably finance it or something. Maybe he already has money in the bank. I don't know. Can the Wolves pay him $10 million year one then $4 million a year for the next three? I don't know the rules on that. I'm guessing that $6 million per year AAV would be enough to sign him. It's so early. A lot of guess work.
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Re: 

Post#34 » by Jedzz » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:28 pm

minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:...

I wish we have signed JMac to Hinkie deal last year. However, there is a scenario where he leaves MIN for better deal. In this scenario, I prefer to have alternative solution to our backup ballhandler problem. With regard to financial implications I still think that Rosas and Gupta are smarter than me, so I am sure they won't pay backup PG 10mil per year.


The hinkie deal you've mentioned many times for him as all you are willing to pay him is more proof you don't like this player. They are horrible deals, the only players playing on unguaranteed multiyear deals in the NBA. It would be different if their yearly amounts were higher and all they had to do is earn it each year. But these deals aren't. They are for minimums everyyear and the team can't even commit to that. Meanwhile, all across the league teams are throwing multiyear muliti million guaranteed deals at bums left and right. Rookies that have never proven a single thing in this league can get locked in for 2 to 5 years guaranteed deals, but a player that has proven he can play at this level gets a Hinkie offer and it's rotten. It's taking advantage of these Gleague players.

I just have no clue why you wouldn't want him on a cheap multi year deal that is guaranteed. Other than the team is already up against the wall cap wise and so now you are still hoping to add others with what left out there. It's just wrong to press these players that have worked so hard into NBA's version of slavery purely because they couldnlt hang onto their wallet while signing everyone else. If he's a player worth keeping, then he's a player worth a contract. And if he's a player worth keeping, then they don't need to draft for his immediate replacement because he's not retiring soon. Consider it a filled position and go build the team elsewhere. Or they can continue bringing in new guards every seasons and never get anywhere all over again.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#35 » by Domejandro » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:41 pm

Campazzo plays incredibly different from Barea, that comparison is abysmal and should pretty much be thrown into the dumpster, in my opinion.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#36 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:48 pm

Domejandro wrote:Campazzo plays incredibly different from Barea, that comparison is abysmal and should pretty much be thrown into the dumpster, in my opinion.

Other than similar height there is no comparison.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#37 » by minimus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:51 pm

Domejandro wrote:Campazzo plays incredibly different from Barea, that comparison is abysmal and should pretty much be thrown into the dumpster, in my opinion.


They have similar physical tools. I never said that their game is identical. My post was about offensive scheme and Campazzo role as backup ballhandler.
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Re: Re: 

Post#38 » by minimus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:05 pm

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:...

I wish we have signed JMac to Hinkie deal last year. However, there is a scenario where he leaves MIN for better deal. In this scenario, I prefer to have alternative solution to our backup ballhandler problem. With regard to financial implications I still think that Rosas and Gupta are smarter than me, so I am sure they won't pay backup PG 10mil per year.


The hinkie deal you've mentioned many times for him as all you are willing to pay him is more proof you don't like this player. They are horrible deals, the only players playing on unguaranteed multiyear deals in the NBA. It would be different if their yearly amounts were higher and all they had to do is earn it each year. But these deals aren't. They are for minimums everyyear and the team can't even commit to that. Meanwhile, all across the league teams are throwing multiyear muliti million guaranteed deals at bums left and right. Rookies that have never proven a single thing in this league can get locked in for 2 to 5 years guaranteed deals, but a player that has proven he can play at this level gets a Hinkie offer and it's rotten. It's taking advantage of these Gleague players.

I just have no clue why you wouldn't want him on a cheap multi year deal that is guaranteed. Other than the team is already up against the wall cap wise and so now you are still hoping to add others with what left out there. It's just wrong to press these players that have worked so hard into NBA's version of slavery purely because they couldnlt hang onto their wallet while signing everyone else. If he's a player worth keeping, then he's a player worth a contract. And if he's a player worth keeping, then they don't need to draft for his immediate replacement because he's not retiring soon. Consider it a filled position and go build the team elsewhere. Or they can continue bringing in new guards every seasons and never get anywhere all over again.


Sometimes Hinkie deals is a good way to give unproven players like JMac a chance to play in this league. Otherwise teams wont give them a chance at all. And to be honest before this season JMac has not even shown much to get that deal, partially because he did not get an opportunity he deserved. In some situation you can throw guaranteed money at unproven player, but that usually leads to disaster. As much as I like JMac, I would be happy if he can get big contract elsewhere. Just like it happened with Tyus Jones. Remember, I was huge Tyus fan. Has JMac shown that he deserved 1+3 deal now? Yes and no. Unfortunately, because of hiatus we have only small sample size to operate, and while many numbers are encouraging, he is still an undersized young PG with little NBA experience. You also can construct different variants of 1+3 deal, if you dont have tunnel vision of Thibs, who gave useless (poorly constructed deals from team perspective) to everyone.

You have been sweating for Nowell for gettting 1+3 deal AND no playing time over Culver. That is your personal pain. But if we look at this objectively there is a reason why Nowell was drafted so low, was playing so bad with main team, missing literally every open shot. And now that contract negotiating with Nowell agent do not look as "concerning and questionable" as many of fans here thought and bashed Rosas for patience.
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Re: Re: 

Post#39 » by Jedzz » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:44 pm

minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:I wish we have signed JMac to Hinkie deal last year. However, there is a scenario where he leaves MIN for better deal. In this scenario, I prefer to have alternative solution to our backup ballhandler problem. With regard to financial implications I still think that Rosas and Gupta are smarter than me, so I am sure they won't pay backup PG 10mil per year.


The hinkie deal you've mentioned many times for him as all you are willing to pay him is more proof you don't like this player. They are horrible deals, the only players playing on unguaranteed multiyear deals in the NBA. It would be different if their yearly amounts were higher and all they had to do is earn it each year. But these deals aren't. They are for minimums everyyear and the team can't even commit to that. Meanwhile, all across the league teams are throwing multiyear muliti million guaranteed deals at bums left and right. Rookies that have never proven a single thing in this league can get locked in for 2 to 5 years guaranteed deals, but a player that has proven he can play at this level gets a Hinkie offer and it's rotten. It's taking advantage of these Gleague players.

I just have no clue why you wouldn't want him on a cheap multi year deal that is guaranteed. Other than the team is already up against the wall cap wise and so now you are still hoping to add others with what left out there. It's just wrong to press these players that have worked so hard into NBA's version of slavery purely because they couldnlt hang onto their wallet while signing everyone else. If he's a player worth keeping, then he's a player worth a contract. And if he's a player worth keeping, then they don't need to draft for his immediate replacement because he's not retiring soon. Consider it a filled position and go build the team elsewhere. Or they can continue bringing in new guards every seasons and never get anywhere all over again.


Sometimes Hinkie deals is a good way to give unproven players like JMac a chance to play in this league. Otherwise teams wont give them a chance at all. And to be honest before this season JMac has not even shown much to get that deal, partially because he did not get an opportunity he deserved. In some situation you can throw guaranteed money at unproven player, but that usually leads to disaster. As much as I like JMac, I would be happy if he can get big contract elsewhere. Just like it happened with Tyus Jones. Remember, I was huge Tyus fan. Has JMac shown that he deserved 1+3 deal now? Yes and no. Unfortunately, because of hiatus we have only small sample size to operate, and while many numbers are encouraging, he is still an undersized young PG with little NBA experience. You also can construct different variants of 1+3 deal, if you dont have tunnel vision of Thibs, who gave useless (poorly constructed deals from team perspective) to everyone.

You have been sweating for Nowell for gettting 1+3 deal AND no playing time over Culver. That is your personal pain. But if we look at this objectively there is a reason why Nowell was drafted so low, was playing so bad with main team, missing literally every open shot. And now that contract negotiating with Nowell agent do not look as "concerning and questionable" as many of fans here thought and bashed Rosas for patience.


This is all BS you are serving me here. He already proved it this year. He did his penance in the Gleague. The moment he gets starts in NBA, really the moment he gets off being the 3rd or worse bench guy, he takes this losing loser of team and helps them compete in a couple games. People need to note that occurance.

The BS you are dealing is all talk about can or can't give out guaranteed blah blah blah. Every stinking year they take big magical guesses in the draft and they hand these players guaranteed money. 5 million 2 years here, 6-8 million two years there with team options, 12 million 3 years there, blah blah unproven bust money hah. They haven't proved a thing yet. They haven't done anything more than saw JMac did in college, then the G, and now in the actual league. What more does he have to do? Does every single guard have to get injured again so he can get over 60 games or 50 starts before you will forget that he was undrafted and just be ok with a minor backup deal?

Compazzo is no different. Another player shafted in the draft (2013 in his case) who went on to prove he's a skilled player,at least in Euro. With JMac you are staring at a young Compazzo who is going to be a lot cheaper for the same or better output. JMac isn't messy at anything. He's ready. Compazzo sure, experience. But no NBA exp at this game load,he's going to cost more, I just don't understand why some are ok with him yet pass on Jmac who already knows the system, coaches, everything. Why must you guys keep breaking this thing.
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Re: "Timberwolves are currently the strongest team on Campazzo" 

Post#40 » by packforfreedom » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:57 am

maybe calm down a little?

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