minimus wrote:We were at 3rd in West in Nov 2017, and four days in Jan 2018. But no rumors about Butler wanting out at that moment were not reported. Butler went down on Feb 23, 2018. At that moment MIN were winning and were looking good, were 3rd in West on Feb 24, 26-28 and Mar. 1. However,
1) it has nothing to do with KAT contract extension talks. It happened in offseason 2018. Also the question was not fire Thibs, the request was to handle properly Butler situation.
I remember the info about KAT going to G.Taylor being in February. I'll continue to search for that podcast but it's tough searching through all those 2018 podcasts for that summer and fall.
2) MIA could not try to acquire Butler at that moment, by the time Butler was down with injury, it was already past trade deadline in NBA. No trade talks started before Glen forced Thibs to listen offers in autumn 2018.
What? I'm talking about the summer and fall, not the 2018 season, I'm saying the info of Towns going to G.Taylor about firing Thibs happened in Feb 2018 and it actually may have been Towns telling his agent to tell G.Taylor. Towns initiate the talk but may have had someone else deliver the message.
minimus wrote:Assumption is a mother of all mistakes. It was not KAT who destroyed MIN with Thibs and Jimmy. It was a bad management, bad coaching, bad decision making. MIA prepared a foundation for this year success, Thibs did not bring same vision, same culture. Spoestra and Riley have found and developed Robinson, Herro, Bam, Nunn. Thibs brought washed up veterans, wasted all resources, traded young players, did not developed a single player from gleague, undrafted etc. He left this organisation in a complete mess. That team was doomed long before Butler asked for a trade.
Towns is still destroying the Timberwolves, you now traded Wiggins and a 1st round pick(could be a high lottery pick) just to add a friend of Towns. IT'S STILL HAPPENING!!!! And now there's whispers of him being as good as gone which would be just horrific since he's forced his will so much on this franchise(get rid of Butler, bring in Russell).
minimus wrote:KAT has been blamed for lack of leadership, toughness. But I will ask you why a great coach motivator Doc Rivers could not fix toxic LAC locker room this year? Why Kawhi Leonard could not elevate LAC in playoffs like he did in TOR?
Kawhi isn't a leader, he's basically a mercenary doing his own thing. It worked in Toronto because he just replaced DeRozen, the rest of the team was almost intact so the chemistry was already there plus a mercenary. In LA the team wasn't really a team, they lost a bunch of key players in the PG trade(not a fan of PG other than he puts up stats, not a winner) and before that, earlier in that season they moved T.Harris for assets. That team was in flux vs Toronto which had been pretty steady for years.
Building a winning organization takes a lot more that simply one great player. Butler understands it that is why he did not want to stay in CHI, MIN and PHI. He joined MIA, he did not build MIA culture.
Chicago - Butler wanted to stay in Chicago, he wanted to be a lifer, but the Bulls did their huge 180 turn going from tough coach(Thibs) to a player's coach in Hoiberg(they've been flip flopping like that that for years with their coaching). It's odd how Chicago just changed the coaching so drastically each time, no way for continuity that way.
Minnesota - Towns didn't want to play with Butler and Butler's mentioned since then he wants to be somewhere he's wanted, that was Philly and now Miami.
Philly - He said it came down to hearing that someone asked if they could... "handle him", finding out about that he was gone from Philly, he said that told him they weren't sure about wanting him so he gave up that 5th year balloon payment and went to Miami. Butler didn't make Miami's culture, it was already there and he fit in it perfectly. Didn't say he made Miami's culture/environment, he just fit in perfectly.
P.S. It also is not true that KAT did not try to sacrifice his his game in order to win, when Butler was there. It is simply not true.
He did sacrifice his game that first year, he didn't want to continue to sacrifice his game.
Towns sacrificed to make Butler comfortable last season. He led Minnesota in true shooting percentage (64.6 percent) by 3.6 points, but he was only fifth in usage rate, behind Butler, Andrew Wiggins, Derrick Rose, and Jamal Crawford. While Towns still put up big individual numbers (21.3 points on 54.5 percent shooting, 12.3 rebounds, 2.4 assists, and 1.4 blocks per game), he averaged 3.8 fewer points per game than the season before, and 3.7 fewer field goal attempts. Thibodeau didn’t build a team that would (or even could) feature Towns. Butler, Wiggins, Rose, and Crawford are all used to being primary options on offense.
Right? Towns was utilized as a 3pt shooter because of 2 things, they didn't have enough good 3pt shooters and Towns was a great 3pt shooter. Town's lack of defense as the center made Thibodeau go with Gibson who lacks a decent 3pt shot and with that kept Town away from the basket even more.
Could Towns have been utilized like Bam on offense, sure but Minnesota would have been a worse team because Towns' defense as the center was lacking which means you have to have stronger defensive wings rather than look for better 3pt shooting wings. Bam erases a lot of defensive mistakes, something Towns should be able to do with his athletic ability but doesn't.
Towns is an incredible offensive talent, if you told me he's going to average 30 ppg next year(and the next year, and the next year) I'd think that's absolutely possible, but until he figures out it's the defensive end that wins games, he's going to be a great stats/bad team guy. It's basically the inverse of Ben Simmons, great defense yet refuses to shoot the ball from mid-range and further and with that, makes the halfcourt offense much more difficult on his teammates even though he's extremely talented.
I had just wished that Minnesota had continued to build and became a powerhouse, the potential was there even with Wiggins under-performing with his lack of effort(which may change with the whole organization in GS on him to give consistent effort).