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Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups?

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Would you trade the #17 pick for Aaron Gordon?

Yes, trade makes sense for both teams
20
69%
No, just draft another rookie instead
9
31%
 
Total votes: 29

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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#121 » by KGdaBom » Thu Oct 1, 2020 5:07 pm

thinktank wrote:I’m with Chuck on this.

Not liking a player is not bias.

It is a difference of opinion.

Not liking a player in and of itself is not bias, however bias can certainly play a huge part in the not liking of the player.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#122 » by thinktank » Thu Oct 1, 2020 6:55 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
thinktank wrote:I’m with Chuck on this.

Not liking a player is not bias.

It is a difference of opinion.

Not liking a player in and of itself is not bias, however bias can certainly play a huge part in the not liking of the player.


Ok. Now prove that happened in this specific case. (You can’t.)

You like to zoom out to 32,000 feet and have difficulty staying on a specific topic.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#123 » by wolves_89 » Thu Oct 1, 2020 7:24 pm

IceManBK1 wrote:
UnFadeable21 wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:If we can land both gordon and jerami grant that'd be awesome.


Grant will be a priority resign for Denver. They have his bird rights and with Plumlee and Milsapp coming off the books, they will have the money to pay him.

Wolves don’t have the cap space to sign a free agent except our mid level.


How much is the mid level exception? Maybe someone like Joe Harris would accept the MLE. I would love to have Gordon+Harris.


Harris is almost certain to get more than the MLE and Grant has a decent chance for a better offer. Even if things go badly for them in free agency and they sign a MLE level deal I'm doubtful they would pick the Wolves.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#124 » by KGdaBom » Thu Oct 1, 2020 7:40 pm

thinktank wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
thinktank wrote:I’m with Chuck on this.

Not liking a player is not bias.

It is a difference of opinion.

Not liking a player in and of itself is not bias, however bias can certainly play a huge part in the not liking of the player.


Ok. Now prove that happened in this specific case. (You can’t.)

You like to zoom out to 32,000 feet and have difficulty staying on a specific topic.

I had no intention of proving it or a belief it was the case. I don't believe I ever said anything indicating such a belief. Your reply seemed to me that since their may be no bias their was no bias. I just wanted to point out that their could be bias.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#125 » by thinktank » Thu Oct 1, 2020 10:23 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
thinktank wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Not liking a player in and of itself is not bias, however bias can certainly play a huge part in the not liking of the player.


Ok. Now prove that happened in this specific case. (You can’t.)

You like to zoom out to 32,000 feet and have difficulty staying on a specific topic.

I had no intention of proving it or a belief it was the case. I don't believe I ever said anything indicating such a belief. Your reply seemed to me that since their may be no bias their was no bias. I just wanted to point out that their could be bias.

Any conclusion by anyone on realm could be due to unprovable bias so that point is moot.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#126 » by KGdaBom » Thu Oct 1, 2020 10:34 pm

thinktank wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
thinktank wrote:
Ok. Now prove that happened in this specific case. (You can’t.)

You like to zoom out to 32,000 feet and have difficulty staying on a specific topic.

I had no intention of proving it or a belief it was the case. I don't believe I ever said anything indicating such a belief. Your reply seemed to me that since their may be no bias their was no bias. I just wanted to point out that their could be bias.

Any conclusion by anyone on realm could be due to unprovable bias so that point is moot.

So we shouldn't consider the possibility of unfair bias in anyone's conclusions? This Chuck guy sounds like a particular Gordon hater. I will definitely consider the possibility that he's unfairly biased.
I might be unfairly biased against LaMelo Ball. I think my reasoning is solid, but I could be influenced by disdain for his Dad.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#127 » by UnFadeable21 » Thu Oct 1, 2020 10:35 pm

Nate Duncan said Jerami Grant’s agent said his player was looking at somewhere in $16 million range for his client in a new contract so that puts him out for the Wolves.

However we can obtain a similar player through trade.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#128 » by KGdaBom » Thu Oct 1, 2020 10:37 pm

UnFadeable21 wrote:Nate Duncan said Jerami Grant’s agent said his player was looking at somewhere in $16 million range for his client in a new contract so that puts him out for the Wolves.

However we can obtain a similar player through trade.

What a player wants isn't necessarily what the player will get. That said I do believe that Grant will get a better offer than what the Wolves can make.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#129 » by UnFadeable21 » Thu Oct 1, 2020 10:43 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
UnFadeable21 wrote:Nate Duncan said Jerami Grant’s agent said his player was looking at somewhere in $16 million range for his client in a new contract so that puts him out for the Wolves.

However we can obtain a similar player through trade.

What a player wants isn't necessarily what the player will get. That said I do believe that Grant will get a better offer than what the Wolves can make.


Well he is opting out of his 9 million player option. I think 14-16 million is about right. With Milsap and Plumlee coming off the books, I’m sure they will overpay to keep him.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#130 » by thinktank » Fri Oct 2, 2020 12:21 am

KGdaBom wrote:
thinktank wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I had no intention of proving it or a belief it was the case. I don't believe I ever said anything indicating such a belief. Your reply seemed to me that since their may be no bias their was no bias. I just wanted to point out that their could be bias.

Any conclusion by anyone on realm could be due to unprovable bias so that point is moot.

So we shouldn't consider the possibility of unfair bias in anyone's conclusions? This Chuck guy sounds like a particular Gordon hater. I will definitely consider the possibility that he's unfairly biased.
I might be unfairly biased against LaMelo Ball. I think my reasoning is solid, but I could be influenced by disdain for his Dad.


If he doesn’t like Gordon that’s his opinion!

You’re confusing opinion and bias.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#131 » by KGdaBom » Fri Oct 2, 2020 12:34 am

thinktank wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
thinktank wrote:Any conclusion by anyone on realm could be due to unprovable bias so that point is moot.

So we shouldn't consider the possibility of unfair bias in anyone's conclusions? This Chuck guy sounds like a particular Gordon hater. I will definitely consider the possibility that he's unfairly biased.
I might be unfairly biased against LaMelo Ball. I think my reasoning is solid, but I could be influenced by disdain for his Dad.


If he doesn’t like Gordon that’s his opinion!

You’re confusing opinion and bias.

Do you just want to argue this. The person who's the most strongly against a player is likely to be the person who is unfairly biased against the player. His opinion is likely a biased one.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#132 » by thinktank » Fri Oct 2, 2020 2:43 am

KGdaBom wrote:
thinktank wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:So we shouldn't consider the possibility of unfair bias in anyone's conclusions? This Chuck guy sounds like a particular Gordon hater. I will definitely consider the possibility that he's unfairly biased.
I might be unfairly biased against LaMelo Ball. I think my reasoning is solid, but I could be influenced by disdain for his Dad.


If he doesn’t like Gordon that’s his opinion!

You’re confusing opinion and bias.

Do you just want to argue this. The person who's the most strongly against a player is likely to be the person who is unfairly biased against the player. His opinion is likely a biased one.


:lol:

I’ll argue all night when I confident I’m right.

It is your OPINION that his OPINION is biased.

You’re dabbling in very dubious logic.

Let’s go back to the heart of the topic, which you can never do.

Gordon’s WS/48 last year was BELOW AVERAGE at .089. That’s the same as his career average of .090.

His TS% is .532, which is below average for a PF.

His PER last year was 15.1, right next to his career average of 15.3. PERFECTLY AVERAGE.

Being handcuffed to average Gordon at ~16M for 2 years is not a good deal, ESPECIALLY if you have to give up #17.

If anyone is showing bias it is YOU!

Texas Chuck wrote:
Ducklett wrote:[ The worst offender of this is Texas Chuck. And he free admits his bias against AG in pretty much every thread. .


Bias? If you mean I am clear in all the Gordon threads that I don't see him as particularly valuable, then sure guilty.
I don't think you understand what bias is. Me not liking a player as much as you isn't bias. It's simply a different evaluation.

But appreciate the shout out I guess. :D


Chuck is making a perfectly unbiased and logical evaluation of both Gordon and the proposed deal.



You can criticize his evaluation of Gordon and the deal using data and opinions, but accusing him of bias is WAY OFF BASE, and frankly, an unprovable and below the belt argumentative tactic.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#133 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Oct 2, 2020 2:56 am

Seriously guys I'm flattered that this thread has become largely about me. :D

I'm open to the idea that I have some sort of specific Aaron Gordon related bias, but I'm gonna need some help understanding what would cause it.

I mean he's far from the only player that I don't value as highly as the consensus on the trade board. I don't value Zach LaVine nearly as high as the board. Or Kelly Oubre. Or Spencer Dinwiddie. Or Victor Oladipo. Or Marvin Bagley(though the board is really coming to me on this one.) Or Michael Porter Jr.

So is there a notable pattern there anyone sees? Other than I don't think they are as good at basketball as they are hyped to be generally speaking.

There are also some Trade Board regs who also post on this forum. They have my permission to call me out as biased if they are aware of any that pertain to Gordon. My pro-JJ Barea bias probably doesn't help my popularity on a Wolves forum, but also isn't particularly relevant. I also stan former Minnesota great Bjelica so maybe that balances it? :D


Odd that not me not liking a player would immediately lead multiple guys to bias as the reason. I can understand it from a Magic fan I guess, but wouldn't the more reasonable expectation that he would have a pro-Gordon bias as a fan than I with no connection to the player or team would have an anti-Gordon bias?

Anyway, happy to help you guys any way I can. Let me know if you guys find the source of my bias. I do take pride in my attempts to be as objective as possible and knowing is half the battle in fixing any issues.


Edit: oh yeah and if anyone is interested in my actual reasoning for not valuing him high I can share that with the thread as well, but figure that's pointless until we've established my level of bias....
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#134 » by thinktank » Fri Oct 2, 2020 3:09 am

I don’t see any bias in your Gordon eval. KG does. Not sure why.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#135 » by Ducklett » Fri Oct 2, 2020 3:19 am

thinktank wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
thinktank wrote:
If he doesn’t like Gordon that’s his opinion!

You’re confusing opinion and bias.

Do you just want to argue this. The person who's the most strongly against a player is likely to be the person who is unfairly biased against the player. His opinion is likely a biased one.


:lol:

I’ll argue all night when I confident I’m right.

It is your OPINION that his OPINION is biased.

You’re dabbling in very dubious logic.

Let’s go back to the heart of the topic, which you can never do.

Gordon’s WS/48 last year was BELOW AVERAGE at .089. That’s the same as his career average of .090.

His TS% is .532, which is below average for a PF.

His PER last year was 15.1, right next to his career average of 15.3. PERFECTLY AVERAGE.

Being handcuffed to average Gordon at ~16M for 2 years is not a good deal, ESPECIALLY if you have to give up #17.

If anyone is showing bias it is YOU!

Texas Chuck wrote:
Ducklett wrote:[ The worst offender of this is Texas Chuck. And he free admits his bias against AG in pretty much every thread. .


Bias? If you mean I am clear in all the Gordon threads that I don't see him as particularly valuable, then sure guilty.
I don't think you understand what bias is. Me not liking a player as much as you isn't bias. It's simply a different evaluation.

But appreciate the shout out I guess. :D


Chuck is making a perfectly unbiased and logical evaluation of both Gordon and the proposed deal.



You can criticize his evaluation of Gordon and the deal using data and opinions, but accusing him of bias is WAY OFF BASE, and frankly, an unprovable and below the belt argumentative tactic.


Like I said: We will keep AG, yall keep 17. Not sure why so many of you guys want to trade for him if you think he is trash.

Good luck boys.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#136 » by KGdaBom » Fri Oct 2, 2020 4:17 am

thinktank wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
thinktank wrote:
If he doesn’t like Gordon that’s his opinion!

You’re confusing opinion and bias.

Do you just want to argue this. The person who's the most strongly against a player is likely to be the person who is unfairly biased against the player. His opinion is likely a biased one.


:lol:

I’ll argue all night when I confident I’m right.

It is your OPINION that his OPINION is biased.

You’re dabbling in very dubious logic.

Let’s go back to the heart of the topic, which you can never do.

Gordon’s WS/48 last year was BELOW AVERAGE at .089. That’s the same as his career average of .090.

His TS% is .532, which is below average for a PF.

His PER last year was 15.1, right next to his career average of 15.3. PERFECTLY AVERAGE.

Being handcuffed to average Gordon at ~16M for 2 years is not a good deal, ESPECIALLY if you have to give up #17.

If anyone is showing bias it is YOU!

Texas Chuck wrote:
Ducklett wrote:[ The worst offender of this is Texas Chuck. And he free admits his bias against AG in pretty much every thread. .


Bias? If you mean I am clear in all the Gordon threads that I don't see him as particularly valuable, then sure guilty.
I don't think you understand what bias is. Me not liking a player as much as you isn't bias. It's simply a different evaluation.

But appreciate the shout out I guess. :D


Chuck is making a perfectly unbiased and logical evaluation of both Gordon and the proposed deal.



You can criticize his evaluation of Gordon and the deal using data and opinions, but accusing him of bias is WAY OFF BASE, and frankly, an unprovable and below the belt argumentative tactic.

I never once said he was biased. You're the one claiming no bias was involved. I'm saying it's possible. The burden of proof is on you. You're the one claiming to know something. I'm not. I don't think you can prove there was no bias. As for logic this is not a question of logic in any way. Logic is provable stuff like if A and B then C.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#137 » by KGdaBom » Fri Oct 2, 2020 4:21 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Seriously guys I'm flattered that this thread has become largely about me. :D

I'm open to the idea that I have some sort of specific Aaron Gordon related bias, but I'm gonna need some help understanding what would cause it.

I mean he's far from the only player that I don't value as highly as the consensus on the trade board. I don't value Zach LaVine nearly as high as the board. Or Kelly Oubre. Or Spencer Dinwiddie. Or Victor Oladipo. Or Marvin Bagley(though the board is really coming to me on this one.) Or Michael Porter Jr.

So is there a notable pattern there anyone sees? Other than I don't think they are as good at basketball as they are hyped to be generally speaking.

There are also some Trade Board regs who also post on this forum. They have my permission to call me out as biased if they are aware of any that pertain to Gordon. My pro-JJ Barea bias probably doesn't help my popularity on a Wolves forum, but also isn't particularly relevant. I also stan former Minnesota great Bjelica so maybe that balances it? :D


Odd that not me not liking a player would immediately lead multiple guys to bias as the reason. I can understand it from a Magic fan I guess, but wouldn't the more reasonable expectation that he would have a pro-Gordon bias as a fan than I with no connection to the player or team would have an anti-Gordon bias?

Anyway, happy to help you guys any way I can. Let me know if you guys find the source of my bias. I do take pride in my attempts to be as objective as possible and knowing is half the battle in fixing any issues.


Edit: oh yeah and if anyone is interested in my actual reasoning for not valuing him high I can share that with the thread as well, but figure that's pointless until we've established my level of bias....

Hey Chuck this is the first comment you have made that I have read :lol: . I never once said you were biased. Look at my posts. I said assuming the premise that you are a Gordon hater that it is likely you are biased. That's not the same thing. For me to really work on this it would require me looking up every comment you ever made regarding Gordon and I'm not willing to do that.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#138 » by KGdaBom » Fri Oct 2, 2020 4:22 am

thinktank wrote:I don’t see any bias in your Gordon eval. KG does. Not sure why.

I never once said he was biased. Check every word I've said. If you can find a place I said he was biased I apologize.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#139 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Oct 2, 2020 4:24 am

I'm right here guys. You don't have to talk about me. You can talk to me. We can get to the bottom of chuckbiasgate I promise. :D
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#140 » by KGdaBom » Fri Oct 2, 2020 4:25 am

Ducklett wrote:
thinktank wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Do you just want to argue this. The person who's the most strongly against a player is likely to be the person who is unfairly biased against the player. His opinion is likely a biased one.


:lol:

I’ll argue all night when I confident I’m right.

It is your OPINION that his OPINION is biased.

You’re dabbling in very dubious logic.

Let’s go back to the heart of the topic, which you can never do.

Gordon’s WS/48 last year was BELOW AVERAGE at .089. That’s the same as his career average of .090.

His TS% is .532, which is below average for a PF.

His PER last year was 15.1, right next to his career average of 15.3. PERFECTLY AVERAGE.

Being handcuffed to average Gordon at ~16M for 2 years is not a good deal, ESPECIALLY if you have to give up #17.

If anyone is showing bias it is YOU!

Texas Chuck wrote:
Bias? If you mean I am clear in all the Gordon threads that I don't see him as particularly valuable, then sure guilty.
I don't think you understand what bias is. Me not liking a player as much as you isn't bias. It's simply a different evaluation.

But appreciate the shout out I guess. :D


Chuck is making a perfectly unbiased and logical evaluation of both Gordon and the proposed deal.



You can criticize his evaluation of Gordon and the deal using data and opinions, but accusing him of bias is WAY OFF BASE, and frankly, an unprovable and below the belt argumentative tactic.


Like I said: We will keep AG, yall keep 17. Not sure why so many of you guys want to trade for him if you think he is trash.

Good luck boys.

A lot of people think he is pretty good. I'm inbetween, but see him as likely better than the #17 pick. The problem is he comes with a much larger contract than the #17 pick. You can make a great case for him with Statistics. You can make a great case against him with statistics. That's why stats can be a real bad way to evaluate.

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