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Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups?

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Would you trade the #17 pick for Aaron Gordon?

Yes, trade makes sense for both teams
20
69%
No, just draft another rookie instead
9
31%
 
Total votes: 29

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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#81 » by SO_MONEY » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:20 am

thinktank wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:
Neeva wrote:
I would be okay with it, cause I can envision Rosas using him as ballast in a trade for Booker with Ball or Edwards the following year.He is a decent player just will be kind of overpaid. I can definitely see the knicks and hawks driving his price up though to make it hell for Denver.


In that case you are better off trading for Gordon and signing a MLE player. Regardless of anything, I am not interested in an overpaid Grant on a long-term deal, a contract that is bad from its onset and not one other teams would want due to cost and length.


“Not one other team”. Yeah right.

Another team will make a huge offer.

You know it too.


It is hyperbole. The point being not many teams would want him and some of the teams that did would be priced out or move their interest to the next crop of FAs. The market will be lean if he gets anywhere close to the rumored rates.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#82 » by Jedzz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:29 am

thinktank wrote:
minimus wrote:
thinktank wrote:I can’t believe how many people would rather pay ~30M for average Gordon than use that pick to take a shot on a much cheaper player.

Gordon doesn’t even fit us very well.


Thibs paid 24mil Gibson and 64mil Dieng to give us similar production. That is what I call "don’t even fit us very well".


That’s a nice distraction from the current debate.

Trade down. Take OO. Keep 17. Let Johnson expire.

Easy.

Don’t settle for two years of mediocre Gordon.


Been saying to keep Johnson and let him expire for a while. And if he's happy here and things are going well he maybe sticks around on a friendly deal for another year or two if things are going well. Maybe the OO thing doesn't pan out or they take a different position. Trouble is, most here see his 16 as value they can continue to make moves with over the cap if headed there. Once it expires, they can no longer make moves as easily. But idk,Turner's deal is another they might be shopping the cap value moves of.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#83 » by Ducklett » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:28 am

Mattya wrote:
cedric76 wrote:Gordon for 17+culver +Johnson and we have a deal


Looks like we won’t have a deal then :lol:


Spoiler: Magic don't care if there is no deal. 17's value is... not great. AG can just stay with the Magic and get traded at the deadline or be traded to GSW who clearly want him and have since the last trade deadline.

Turns out the Magic don't need to trade him. Good luck guys!
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#84 » by KGdaBom » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:36 am

Ducklett wrote:
Mattya wrote:
cedric76 wrote:Gordon for 17+culver +Johnson and we have a deal


Looks like we won’t have a deal then :lol:


Spoiler: Magic don't care if there is no deal. 17's value is... not great. AG can just stay with the Magic and get traded at the deadline or be traded to GSW who clearly want him and have since the last trade deadline.

Turns out the Magic don't need to trade him. Good luck guys!

He's worth more than the 17th pick in the draft. I think we got many people here way overvaluing the draft picks. They see all this potential and potential almost never turns out.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#85 » by SO_MONEY » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:15 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Mattya wrote:
Looks like we won’t have a deal then :lol:


Spoiler: Magic don't care if there is no deal. 17's value is... not great. AG can just stay with the Magic and get traded at the deadline or be traded to GSW who clearly want him and have since the last trade deadline.

Turns out the Magic don't need to trade him. Good luck guys!

He's worth more than the 17th pick in the draft. I think we got many people here way overvaluing the draft picks. They see all this potential and potential almost never turns out.


I don't think he is worth more than #17. ORL ultimately has the choice to trade him or not and maybe a team offers something better, but #17 and JJ is what MN would offer, plus something minor, perhaps Evans, a protected 2nd...
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#86 » by shrink » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:23 pm

Neeva wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:
Except that "space" will be cancelled by Beasley and perhaps Juancho, maybe a MLE player.

The cap space has to come from somewhere and we can match any offer for Beasley. I’d much rather make a run at Grant than extend Hernangomez although he appears to be a priority for DEN.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wouldn’t it be good to make a high offer for Grant make a fellow west rival have to spend more than they wanted to keep him..

Yes, typically this is a tactic teams use to try to secure a restricted free agent they really want. They may pay $1-2 mil more than he is worth, rather than have to give up assets in a trade. As you mention, the worst thing that can happen is the team matches the offer and then they have an overpaid contract on the payroll.

Unfortunately, MIN is over the salary cap, so they don’t have cap space. The only way a team over the cap can add players is trough trade, or with an exception (.. to the salary cap). For MIN, the most they can offer is the Non-Taxpayer Mid Level Exception [MLE), which will likely be around $9 mil. That probably is not enough,so our only avenue would be a sign-and-trade.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#87 » by shrink » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:31 pm

Ducklett wrote:
Mattya wrote:
cedric76 wrote:Gordon for 17+culver +Johnson and we have a deal


Looks like we won’t have a deal then :lol:


Spoiler: Magic don't care if there is no deal. 17's value is... not great. AG can just stay with the Magic and get traded at the deadline or be traded to GSW who clearly want him and have since the last trade deadline.

Turns out the Magic don't need to trade him. Good luck guys!

You guys are over-valuing Gordon here. I’ve made the case that he is only worth the #17, plus either Spellman or the #33, and that is the general consensus of most of the neutral fans on the trade board. I would not be shocked if ORL didn’t accept that price, especially after losing Jonathan Isaac for next year, but his price isn’t worth including Culver.

But dreams about GSW are even more far fetched. The Warriors have big assets (the two picks), and tiny assets, and not much in between. Gordon + #15 is not going to get #2 or the MIN 1st, as some ORL fans dream. And unless the Magic are willing to take on Wiggins, the teams can’t salary match the use of other ORL players to add value.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#88 » by Jedzz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:42 pm

shrink wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Mattya wrote:
Looks like we won’t have a deal then :lol:


Spoiler: Magic don't care if there is no deal. 17's value is... not great. AG can just stay with the Magic and get traded at the deadline or be traded to GSW who clearly want him and have since the last trade deadline.

Turns out the Magic don't need to trade him. Good luck guys!

You guys are over-valuing Gordon here. I’ve made the case that he is only worth the #17, plus either Spellman or the #33, and that is the general consensus of most of the neutral fans on the trade board. I would not be shocked if ORL didn’t accept that price, especially after losing Jonathan Isaac for next year, but his price isn’t worth including Culver.

But dreams about GSW are even more far fetched. The Warriors have big assets (the two picks), and tiny assets, and not much in between. Gordon + #15 is not going to get #2 or the MIN 1st, as some ORL fans dream. And unless the Magic are willing to take on Wiggins, the teams can’t salary match the use of other ORL players to add value.


Doesn't mean a third or fourth team can't enter the deal and help make it happen for them.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#89 » by Mattya » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:04 pm

Ducklett wrote:
Mattya wrote:
cedric76 wrote:Gordon for 17+culver +Johnson and we have a deal


Looks like we won’t have a deal then :lol:


Spoiler: Magic don't care if there is no deal. 17's value is... not great. AG can just stay with the Magic and get traded at the deadline or be traded to GSW who clearly want him and have since the last trade deadline.

Turns out the Magic don't need to trade him. Good luck guys!


I’m not the guy to talk to when it comes to wanting to trade for Gordon. But good luck to you as well.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#90 » by UnFadeable21 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:05 pm

From the Athletic today on the Magic’s current roster


Aaron Gordon
Status: Under contract through 2021-22
Age: Will turn 26 on Sept. 16, 2021

Analysis: Gordon is the most difficult player on the Magic roster to evaluate.

The conventional wisdom posits that Gordon had a disappointing season, and his traditional stats support that viewpoint. His 3-point shooting accuracy fell from 35 percent in 2018-19 to 31 percent. His free throw accuracy dropped from 73 percent to 67 percent. His scoring average dipped from 16.0 points per game to 14.4 points per game.

Those traditional stats tell only a partial story, however. They do not separate how much better Gordon played after he moved from small forward to power forward.

For most of Orlando’s first 51 games, Gordon predominately played small forward while either Jonathan Isaac or Khem Birch started at power forward. Offensively, the lineup did not fit together, and playing on the wing was a suboptimal application of Gordon’s talents.

From Feb. 8 on, however, Steve Clifford started Gordon exclusively at power forward, with either Wes Iwundu or James Ennis III at small forward.

The improvements in Gordon’s game when he played power forward were undeniable. According to the advanced analytics website Cleaning the Glass, Gordon dramatically increased his assist rate, the percentage of possessions in which he assisted on teammates’ made baskets, from 14.2 percent to 21.6 percent.

Traditional stats tell the same story. Gordon had nine games during the season in which he dished out at least six assists. Seven of those nine games were games played after Feb. 8 — in other words, after he moved to power forward almost exclusively.

He also was more accurate, with his field goal percentage rising from 42 percent before the position change to 47 percent from the field after the position change. His 3-point shooting also rose from 30 percent to 33 percent.

An argument can be made that Gordon’s ramped-up production stems from the Magic playing a softer schedule that featured weaker defenses, and there is an element of truth there. But at the same time, I think Clifford and his coaching staff found a way to unlock one of Gordon’s least-publicized talents: his passing ability. In addition, Gordon should be commended for embracing that role and for playing in a more unselfish manner.

Discerning talent evaluators for other teams and analytics departments for other teams should be able to identify the clear progression in Gordon’s game. I think it will prompt them to value him more highly.

Gordon missed the Magic’s last four seeding games and the entire postseason after he absorbed a dangerous foul by Kyle Lowry on Aug. 5 and suffered a hamstring strain. Given the unusual nature of that play — Lowry’s foul can be classified as reckless and prompted Gordon, defenseless, to land in an unnatural manner — I do not think other teams will, or should, hold that injury against Gordon.

Stock verdict: Rising

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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#91 » by minimus » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:28 pm

UnFadeable21 wrote:From the Athletic today on the Magic’s current roster


This guy is made for MIN smallball PF position. Find a decent 3&D, for instance Crowder, and KAT-Gordon-Crowder-Beasley-DLo starting five will lead MIN in playoff next year.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#92 » by Wolveswin » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:28 pm

Knicks Give: Randle + Knox + #8 + #27 + 2021 1st (option for 2022) + Both Dallas 1sts Owed
Knicks Get: #1 (Ball) + Johnson + Spellman

Magic Give: A. Gordon + #15
Magic Get: Randle + #8 + #27

Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Knox + #15 + 2021 Knicks 1st (2022 option) + Both Dallas 1st Owed

Question is, would Knicks give more? Maybe a 2023 or 2024 protected 1st.

Rosas gets to pick 2 players he likes just out of lotto at 15 and 17 or combine them for 1 player in late lotto (add #33 if needed).

If Wolves as they say are planning for 2022, this trade does that, while getting better 2020/21 (as they don’t own their 1st).

Towns | Reid
Gordon | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt
Culver | Knox | Layman
Beasley | Okogie | Evans
Russell | McJordan
Plus #15 and #17.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#93 » by Ducklett » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:07 pm

shrink wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Mattya wrote:
Looks like we won’t have a deal then :lol:


Spoiler: Magic don't care if there is no deal. 17's value is... not great. AG can just stay with the Magic and get traded at the deadline or be traded to GSW who clearly want him and have since the last trade deadline.

Turns out the Magic don't need to trade him. Good luck guys!

You guys are over-valuing Gordon here. I’ve made the case that he is only worth the #17, plus either Spellman or the #33, and that is the general consensus of most of the neutral fans on the trade board. I would not be shocked if ORL didn’t accept that price, especially after losing Jonathan Isaac for next year, but his price isn’t worth including Culver.

But dreams about GSW are even more far fetched. The Warriors have big assets (the two picks), and tiny assets, and not much in between. Gordon + #15 is not going to get #2 or the MIN 1st, as some ORL fans dream. And unless the Magic are willing to take on Wiggins, the teams can’t salary match the use of other ORL players to add value.


You are both undervaluing Gordon and overvaluing the 17 in what could be a historically bad draft.

I wouldn't quote the T&T board as gospel when you have insiders, sports writers, and front offices disagreeing with your assessments.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#94 » by shrink » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:10 pm

Ducklett wrote:
shrink wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Spoiler: Magic don't care if there is no deal. 17's value is... not great. AG can just stay with the Magic and get traded at the deadline or be traded to GSW who clearly want him and have since the last trade deadline.

Turns out the Magic don't need to trade him. Good luck guys!

You guys are over-valuing Gordon here. I’ve made the case that he is only worth the #17, plus either Spellman or the #33, and that is the general consensus of most of the neutral fans on the trade board. I would not be shocked if ORL didn’t accept that price, especially after losing Jonathan Isaac for next year, but his price isn’t worth including Culver.

But dreams about GSW are even more far fetched. The Warriors have big assets (the two picks), and tiny assets, and not much in between. Gordon + #15 is not going to get #2 or the MIN 1st, as some ORL fans dream. And unless the Magic are willing to take on Wiggins, the teams can’t salary match the use of other ORL players to add value.


You are both undervaluing Gordon and overvaluing the 17 in what could be a historically bad draft.

I wouldn't quote the T&T board as gospel when you have insiders, sports writers, and front offices disagreeing with your assessments.

No, I quote them as neutral observers. Can you make that claim?
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#95 » by KGdaBom » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:58 pm

Ducklett wrote:
shrink wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Spoiler: Magic don't care if there is no deal. 17's value is... not great. AG can just stay with the Magic and get traded at the deadline or be traded to GSW who clearly want him and have since the last trade deadline.

Turns out the Magic don't need to trade him. Good luck guys!

You guys are over-valuing Gordon here. I’ve made the case that he is only worth the #17, plus either Spellman or the #33, and that is the general consensus of most of the neutral fans on the trade board. I would not be shocked if ORL didn’t accept that price, especially after losing Jonathan Isaac for next year, but his price isn’t worth including Culver.

But dreams about GSW are even more far fetched. The Warriors have big assets (the two picks), and tiny assets, and not much in between. Gordon + #15 is not going to get #2 or the MIN 1st, as some ORL fans dream. And unless the Magic are willing to take on Wiggins, the teams can’t salary match the use of other ORL players to add value.


You are both undervaluing Gordon and overvaluing the 17 in what could be a historically bad draft.

I wouldn't quote the T&T board as gospel when you have insiders, sports writers, and front offices disagreeing with your assessments.

Gordon is worth more than 17. He's not worth 17 and Culver. What deal can be made?
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#96 » by Neeva » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:02 pm

Gordon is a player on steep decline in value, I don’t see that changing without a change of scenery.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#97 » by Ducklett » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:10 pm

shrink wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
shrink wrote:You guys are over-valuing Gordon here. I’ve made the case that he is only worth the #17, plus either Spellman or the #33, and that is the general consensus of most of the neutral fans on the trade board. I would not be shocked if ORL didn’t accept that price, especially after losing Jonathan Isaac for next year, but his price isn’t worth including Culver.

But dreams about GSW are even more far fetched. The Warriors have big assets (the two picks), and tiny assets, and not much in between. Gordon + #15 is not going to get #2 or the MIN 1st, as some ORL fans dream. And unless the Magic are willing to take on Wiggins, the teams can’t salary match the use of other ORL players to add value.


You are both undervaluing Gordon and overvaluing the 17 in what could be a historically bad draft.

I wouldn't quote the T&T board as gospel when you have insiders, sports writers, and front offices disagreeing with your assessments.

No, I quote them as neutral observers. Can you make that claim?


But they aren't neutral observers. The worst offender of this is Texas Chuck. And he free admits his bias against AG in pretty much every thread. Sorry man. I can't imagine you think that the T&T board is more honest or factually accurate than sports writers, scouts, and front offices.

If AG's value is indeed decreasing like you guys say:
A) Why does it seem like there are 3-5 teams, at the very least, trying to get him
B) Why wouldn't the Magic just keep him to "rehab" his value

The logic you guys are proposing just even check out internally. It's fine. We will keep AG and you guys try to find a player sniffing AG's abilities as a passer, rebounder, and man defender from another team for just the 17. I wish you all the luck in the world, sincerely. You guys are kind of the Orlando of the west so I hope you guys find success.

Based on the T&T board, you guys are trading the #1 for OG and Powell from the Raptors, so you won't even need AG.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#98 » by SO_MONEY » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:35 pm

Ducklett wrote:
shrink wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
You are both undervaluing Gordon and overvaluing the 17 in what could be a historically bad draft.

I wouldn't quote the T&T board as gospel when you have insiders, sports writers, and front offices disagreeing with your assessments.

No, I quote them as neutral observers. Can you make that claim?


But they aren't neutral observers. The worst offender of this is Texas Chuck. And he free admits his bias against AG in pretty much every thread. Sorry man. I can't imagine you think that the T&T board is more honest or factually accurate than sports writers, scouts, and front offices.

If AG's value is indeed decreasing like you guys say:
A) Why does it seem like there are 3-5 teams, at the very least, trying to get him
B) Why wouldn't the Magic just keep him to "rehab" his value

The logic you guys are proposing just even check out internally. It's fine. We will keep AG and you guys try to find a player sniffing AG's abilities as a passer, rebounder, and man defender from another team for just the 17. I wish you all the luck in the world, sincerely. You guys are kind of the Orlando of the west so I hope you guys find success.

Based on the T&T board, you guys are trading the #1 for OG and Powell from the Raptors, so you won't even need AG.


Yawn.
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#99 » by shrink » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:40 pm

Ducklett wrote:
shrink wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
You are both undervaluing Gordon and overvaluing the 17 in what could be a historically bad draft.

I wouldn't quote the T&T board as gospel when you have insiders, sports writers, and front offices disagreeing with your assessments.

No, I quote them as neutral observers. Can you make that claim?


But they aren't neutral observers. The worst offender of this is Texas Chuck. And he free admits his bias against AG in pretty much every thread. Sorry man. I can't imagine you think that the T&T board is more honest or factually accurate than sports writers, scouts, and front offices.

If AG's value is indeed decreasing like you guys say:
A) Why does it seem like there are 3-5 teams, at the very least, trying to get him
B) Why wouldn't the Magic just keep him to "rehab" his value

The logic you guys are proposing just even check out internally. It's fine. We will keep AG and you guys try to find a player sniffing AG's abilities as a passer, rebounder, and man defender from another team for just the 17. I wish you all the luck in the world, sincerely. You guys are kind of the Orlando of the west so I hope you guys find success.

Based on the T&T board, you guys are trading the #1 for OG and Powell from the Raptors, so you won't even need AG.

Okay then - show me where these “sports writers, scouts and front offices” talked about his high Value? It probably hasn’t been lately, where his awful shooting had him a negative contract at $19 mil!

Plus, I kind of think you’re being ridiculous if you think the trade board is biased. Nobody has time for that. Do you think 70% of the neutral posters there who peg his value at #17 are ALL biased about the Magic, or maybe you’re biased because you are actually a fan of that team?

Heck, I’ve revealed several times that I’m a secret fan of the Magic. But Gordon is what he is, and I think #17 as well (though I’d add #33 or Spellman). Am I biased? Is everybody that disagrees with you on Aaron Gordon’s high value biased, none of them using any evidence to support their claim?
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Re: Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups? 

Post#100 » by Ducklett » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:45 pm

shrink wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
shrink wrote:No, I quote them as neutral observers. Can you make that claim?


But they aren't neutral observers. The worst offender of this is Texas Chuck. And he free admits his bias against AG in pretty much every thread. Sorry man. I can't imagine you think that the T&T board is more honest or factually accurate than sports writers, scouts, and front offices.

If AG's value is indeed decreasing like you guys say:
A) Why does it seem like there are 3-5 teams, at the very least, trying to get him
B) Why wouldn't the Magic just keep him to "rehab" his value

The logic you guys are proposing just even check out internally. It's fine. We will keep AG and you guys try to find a player sniffing AG's abilities as a passer, rebounder, and man defender from another team for just the 17. I wish you all the luck in the world, sincerely. You guys are kind of the Orlando of the west so I hope you guys find success.

Based on the T&T board, you guys are trading the #1 for OG and Powell from the Raptors, so you won't even need AG.

Okay then - show me where these “sports writers, scouts and front offices” talked about his value?

Plus, I kind of think you’re being ridiculous if you think the trade board is biased. Nobody has time for that. Do you think 70% of the neutral posters there who peg his value at #17 are ALL biased about the Magic, or maybe you’re biased because you are actually a fan of that team?


Where did you get 70% from? One of your own posters in this thread posted a write up on AG's value. GSW writers, Suns Writers, and POR writers all have written articles about "smoke" in their FOs about trading from him. POR's offer of 16, Simons, Ariza is better than 17. It isn't even hard to find a much better offer than 17 from other team's fans...

And to yawn poster:
Texas Chuck wrote:I was the poster who presented OG/Powell for the Minny pick(pretty sure I also did something OG related with GSW--if not me someone did) and those deals were reasonably well-received by both fan bases fwiw. Godaddy isn't making that up.

Carry on.


Edit: Did a quick search on trade rumors. Missed the BRK was also making calls about AG.

Edit 2: I'm not going to quote every rumor because its a waste of time and space, but here is the GSW's one from August:
The Athletic’s Anthony Slater reported “a little smoke on the Warriors and Gordon front” in August, and the idea of a so-called “death lineup” with him and Draymond Green at the 4 and 5 is tantalizing.

Edit 3: Here is an article about the Suns trying to get him at the deadline: https://arizonasports.com/story/2284075/report-suns-pursued-magic-f-aaron-gordon-trade-deadline/

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