ImageImageImage

Official Anthony Edwards Thread

Moderators: Domejandro, Calinks, Worm Guts

Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 56,270
And1: 12,325
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#441 » by Klomp » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:43 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
minimus wrote:Draft pick should be judged after 2-3 years. Jamal Murray was considered as meh selection at very beginning of his career. He was considered as a meh again when DEN re-sgned him to max contract.


Young guys deserve time, but Lamelo has been a difference maker already and we don't need to wait 2-3 years to see he is going to be very good.

He is the same age as Edwards (to the month), playing a similar roll as Edwards coming off the bench, is averaging 12.4-7-6, and actually out shooting Edwards. I hope Edwards is as great as the next guy, but there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't trade Edwards for Ball right now.

Just because Ball is putting up those numbers in Charlotte doesn't mean he would be putting them up in Minnesota.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
User avatar
Killboard
Analyst
Posts: 3,349
And1: 928
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#442 » by Killboard » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:55 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Killboard wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Can you explain what you mean by this?


That high usage guards are usually asked no initiate offense and create gravity, where role players use that gravity created for others to make plays. It's a different learning curve.



Still not really following you, other than it seems like you're trying to justify Edwards and dismiss Haliburton.

In the end... maybe we can agree that the Wolves simply need more "role players" and not as many "lead" guys.

Haliburton:
12.1 ppg
5.3 apg
1.0 TO
52.0% fg
50.0% 3fg


But you don't draft for need, much less with the 1st pick.

I don't have nothing against Haliburton, and I'm not saying Edwards will provide more wins over his career because I don't know the future. Just that I think Hailburton ceiling isn't an offensive powerhouse, and Edwards is. If Ant can fullfill his potential is something we have to wait and see.
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 10,541
And1: 2,236
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#443 » by Jedzz » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:10 pm

Killboard wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Killboard wrote:
That high usage guards are usually asked no initiate offense and create gravity, where role players use that gravity created for others to make plays. It's a different learning curve.



Still not really following you, other than it seems like you're trying to justify Edwards and dismiss Haliburton.

In the end... maybe we can agree that the Wolves simply need more "role players" and not as many "lead" guys.

Haliburton:
12.1 ppg
5.3 apg
1.0 TO
52.0% fg
50.0% 3fg


But you don't draft for need, much less with the 1st pick.

I don't have nothing against Haliburton, and I'm not saying Edwards will provide more wins over his career because I don't know the future. Just that I think Hailburton ceiling isn't an offensive powerhouse, and Edwards is. If Ant can fullfill his potential is something we have to wait and see.


Not that haliburton would have been a "need" choice. The team didn't need any guards going into this offseason. But it sure wouldn't hurt to have better guards that shoot better, have better game IQ, pass better. You personally don't want teams to ever draft for needs, but could there also be times your team just can't afford another shot at the moon and risk bust? That claim about ceilings is just as much about that future you don't know.
User avatar
AbeVigodaLive
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,904
And1: 2,348
Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#444 » by AbeVigodaLive » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:17 pm

Killboard wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Killboard wrote:
That high usage guards are usually asked no initiate offense and create gravity, where role players use that gravity created for others to make plays. It's a different learning curve.



Still not really following you, other than it seems like you're trying to justify Edwards and dismiss Haliburton.

In the end... maybe we can agree that the Wolves simply need more "role players" and not as many "lead" guys.

Haliburton:
12.1 ppg
5.3 apg
1.0 TO
52.0% fg
50.0% 3fg


But you don't draft for need, much less with the 1st pick.

I don't have nothing against Haliburton, and I'm not saying Edwards will provide more wins over his career because I don't know the future. Just that I think Hailburton ceiling isn't an offensive powerhouse, and Edwards is. If Ant can fullfill his potential is something we have to wait and see.



I'm not suggesting the Wolves should have taken Haliburton #1. But being #1 gives you an option to trade down... even in a "weak" draft.

As for ceilings and potential and promise... the graveyard of woebegone Wolves prospects is pretty damn full at this point.

I think the NBA is seeing a nice little run of smart, skilled players who are outperforming their draft positions by simply playing smart basketball. Many of them were not seen as high-ceiling guys. They simply know how to play basketball... where to move... where to pass... how to fit in with other talented players. The Wolves simply don't have as many of these guys as most other teams.

It'll be nice for the Wolves to hit on Edwards. But as is usually the case, it's a lot of waiting. He's not close right now.
User avatar
Killboard
Analyst
Posts: 3,349
And1: 928
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#445 » by Killboard » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:18 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Killboard wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Can you explain what you mean by this?


That high usage guards are usually asked no initiate offense and create gravity, where role players use that gravity created for others to make plays. It's a different learning curve.

Every player plays a role whether it's Haliburton, Edwards, Ball or Wiseman. Time will tell which of them is the best.


Everybody has a role, but no everyone has the same role. Limited usage players are usually more easier to come along in offense than high usage players, because their decisions have a more limited arrange of outputs. And spacing make those decision to be made in more or less traffic

When you combine the high usage with bad spacing, that's not a recipe for good efficency. Lamelo hasn't had bad spacing. Hali haven't had high usage, Edwards has had both so far.
User avatar
AbeVigodaLive
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,904
And1: 2,348
Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#446 » by AbeVigodaLive » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:22 pm

Killboard wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Killboard wrote:
That high usage guards are usually asked no initiate offense and create gravity, where role players use that gravity created for others to make plays. It's a different learning curve.

Every player plays a role whether it's Haliburton, Edwards, Ball or Wiseman. Time will tell which of them is the best.


Everybody has a role, but no everyone has the same role. Limited usage players are usually more easier to come along in offense than high usage players, because their decisions have a more limited arrange of outputs. And spacing make those decision to be made in more or less traffic

When you combine the high usage with bad spacing, that's not a recipe for good efficency. Lamelo hasn't had bad spacing. Hali haven't had high usage, Edwards has had both so far.




As for limited role players like Haliburton... fair enough. They're easy to find?

Maybe we should go back into the annals of Timberwolves lore and list them all...




[Note: As for Edwards high usage... that seems like a pretty big problem to let him dominate the ball THAT much right now, right? That's part of the Promise of Hope game. Giving guys too much too soon on bad teams. Bad habits form quickly. 40 shot attempts over back-to-back losses and only a handful of rebounds and only 2 assists is not the best model for success.]
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 10,541
And1: 2,236
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#447 » by Jedzz » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:23 pm

Killboard wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Killboard wrote:
That high usage guards are usually asked no initiate offense and create gravity, where role players use that gravity created for others to make plays. It's a different learning curve.

Every player plays a role whether it's Haliburton, Edwards, Ball or Wiseman. Time will tell which of them is the best.


Everybody has a role, but no everyone has the same role. Limited usage players are usually more easier to come along in offense than high usage players, because their decisions have a more limited arrange of outputs. And spacing make those decision to be made in more or less traffic

When you combine the high usage with bad spacing, that's not a recipe for good efficency. Lamelo hasn't had bad spacing. Hali haven't had high usage, Edwards has had both so far.


Up until the last couple games Edwards had the third highest minutes of the team. He was getting usage in some of those games for sure. The last couple games have been different though.
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 10,541
And1: 2,236
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#448 » by Jedzz » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:04 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Killboard wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Every player plays a role whether it's Haliburton, Edwards, Ball or Wiseman. Time will tell which of them is the best.


Everybody has a role, but no everyone has the same role. Limited usage players are usually more easier to come along in offense than high usage players, because their decisions have a more limited arrange of outputs. And spacing make those decision to be made in more or less traffic

When you combine the high usage with bad spacing, that's not a recipe for good efficency. Lamelo hasn't had bad spacing. Hali haven't had high usage, Edwards has had both so far.




As for limited role players like Haliburton... fair enough. They're easy to find?

Maybe we should go back into the annals of Timberwolves lore and list them all...

Not easy to find players that are equally at home on ball or completely off on a smaller role. Definately not easy to find shooters of that quality that also have good game IQ and passing skills. People can call them role players all they want. He's not limited in skills. He's just not overly overbearing in nature. Doesn't mean he won't slide into a leadership role in a year or two and start taking over. Like a Murray in Denver.
User avatar
AbeVigodaLive
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,904
And1: 2,348
Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#449 » by AbeVigodaLive » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:17 pm

Jedzz wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Killboard wrote:
Everybody has a role, but no everyone has the same role. Limited usage players are usually more easier to come along in offense than high usage players, because their decisions have a more limited arrange of outputs. And spacing make those decision to be made in more or less traffic

When you combine the high usage with bad spacing, that's not a recipe for good efficency. Lamelo hasn't had bad spacing. Hali haven't had high usage, Edwards has had both so far.




As for limited role players like Haliburton... fair enough. They're easy to find?

Maybe we should go back into the annals of Timberwolves lore and list them all...

Not easy to find players that are equally at home on ball or completely off on a smaller role. Definately not easy to find shooters of that quality that also have good game IQ and passing skills. People can call them role players all they want. He's not limited in skills. He's just not overly overbeating in nature. Doesn't mean he won't slide into a leadership role in a year or two and start taking over. Like a Murray in Denver.



Yep.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to think of many of those easy-to-find versatile, smart, highly efficient young role players in the historic annals of Wolves lore...
User avatar
Killboard
Analyst
Posts: 3,349
And1: 928
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#450 » by Killboard » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:21 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:


As for limited role players like Haliburton... fair enough. They're easy to find?

Maybe we should go back into the annals of Timberwolves lore and list them all...

Not easy to find players that are equally at home on ball or completely off on a smaller role. Definately not easy to find shooters of that quality that also have good game IQ and passing skills. People can call them role players all they want. He's not limited in skills. He's just not overly overbeating in nature. Doesn't mean he won't slide into a leadership role in a year or two and start taking over. Like a Murray in Denver.



Yep.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to think of many of those easy-to-find versatile, smart, highly efficient young role players in the historic annals of Wolves lore...


Murray was an historic scorer for a freshman in Kentucky. And sure Hali could become a high usage player and score 25 PPG at some point, just that he isn't asked to get that role right now or was asked of him in the past.

Ant usage in college: 30.4%
Murray usage in Kentucky: 27.0%
Haliburton (as a sophmore in college): 20%
User avatar
AbeVigodaLive
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,904
And1: 2,348
Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#451 » by AbeVigodaLive » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:33 pm

Killboard wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Not easy to find players that are equally at home on ball or completely off on a smaller role. Definately not easy to find shooters of that quality that also have good game IQ and passing skills. People can call them role players all they want. He's not limited in skills. He's just not overly overbeating in nature. Doesn't mean he won't slide into a leadership role in a year or two and start taking over. Like a Murray in Denver.



Yep.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to think of many of those easy-to-find versatile, smart, highly efficient young role players in the historic annals of Wolves lore...


Murray was an historic scorer for a freshman in Kentucky. And sure Hali could become a high usage player and score 25 PPG at some point, just that he isn't asked to get that role right now or was asked of him in the past.

Ant usage in college: 30.4%
Murray usage in Kentucky: 27.0%
Haliburton (as a sophmore in college): 20%



Who cares about usage? Especially if it's not used efficiency — it's actually a BAD thing.

I don't care if you have the #1 pick or the #60 pick... any player who can make a positive difference without dominating the ball is one of the most important things for a good team.

Again... how often have the Timberwolves had one of those guys? Who were they?
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 10,541
And1: 2,236
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#452 » by Jedzz » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:49 pm

Killboard wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Not easy to find players that are equally at home on ball or completely off on a smaller role. Definately not easy to find shooters of that quality that also have good game IQ and passing skills. People can call them role players all they want. He's not limited in skills. He's just not overly overbeating in nature. Doesn't mean he won't slide into a leadership role in a year or two and start taking over. Like a Murray in Denver.



Yep.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to think of many of those easy-to-find versatile, smart, highly efficient young role players in the historic annals of Wolves lore...


Murray was an historic scorer for a freshman in Kentucky. And sure Hali could become a high usage player and score 25 PPG at some point, just that he isn't asked to get that role right now or was asked of him in the past.

Ant usage in college: 30.4%
Murray usage in Kentucky: 27.0%
Haliburton (as a sophmore in college): 20%

I think I have very different thoughts than you about a number of these things.

What was Towns usage in college?
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 10,541
And1: 2,236
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#453 » by Jedzz » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:56 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Yep.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to think of many of those easy-to-find versatile, smart, highly efficient young role players in the historic annals of Wolves lore...


We need a team history buff to throw out some names. But I can't think of many off hand. The team has been taking moon shots on projects for as far back as I care to remember right now.

Dunn was maybe not a moonshot, but efficient? no.

Does Rubio qualify? It becomes a fuzzy request when you throw in the term Role Player. I don't tend to agree with people's claims about who is or isn't seen as a role player at draft times. Does Dieng qualify as smart or highly efficient?

The team seems to never draft an efficient shooter. It's like a taboo for them. Good college shooters are hated by the majority of the fan base for whatever reason. An annual argument for me come draft time.
User avatar
Killboard
Analyst
Posts: 3,349
And1: 928
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#454 » by Killboard » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:12 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Killboard wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Yep.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to think of many of those easy-to-find versatile, smart, highly efficient young role players in the historic annals of Wolves lore...


Murray was an historic scorer for a freshman in Kentucky. And sure Hali could become a high usage player and score 25 PPG at some point, just that he isn't asked to get that role right now or was asked of him in the past.

Ant usage in college: 30.4%
Murray usage in Kentucky: 27.0%
Haliburton (as a sophmore in college): 20%



Who cares about usage? Especially if it's not used efficiency — it's actually a BAD thing.

I don't care if you have the #1 pick or the #60 pick... any player who can make a positive difference without dominating the ball is one of the most important things for a good team.

Again... how often have the Timberwolves had one of those guys? Who were they?


I didn't use it as a prove to say they were better players. I used it to define their ARCHETYPES, which take different curves of learning in the NBA, which was the main point when I said it take more time for lead guards to come along.
User avatar
m2002brian
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,544
And1: 487
Joined: May 29, 2009
     

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#455 » by m2002brian » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:15 pm

Jedzz wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Yep.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to think of many of those easy-to-find versatile, smart, highly efficient young role players in the historic annals of Wolves lore...


.....

The team seems to never draft an efficient shooter. It's like a taboo for them. Good college shooters are hated by the majority of the fan base for whatever reason. An annual argument for me come draft time.



What?
Good Shooting?
That’s not important in basketball.

This is wolves land where chucking and bad defense rule.
When we do have a good shooter, like Mike Miller, we make sure to make them second guess their shots and ruin their confidence.
BLUEGREENRED
User avatar
Killboard
Analyst
Posts: 3,349
And1: 928
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#456 » by Killboard » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:16 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Killboard wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Yep.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to think of many of those easy-to-find versatile, smart, highly efficient young role players in the historic annals of Wolves lore...


Murray was an historic scorer for a freshman in Kentucky. And sure Hali could become a high usage player and score 25 PPG at some point, just that he isn't asked to get that role right now or was asked of him in the past.

Ant usage in college: 30.4%
Murray usage in Kentucky: 27.0%
Haliburton (as a sophmore in college): 20%

I think I have very different thoughts than you about a number of these things.

What was Towns usage in college?


23.7% in college and jumped to 24.9% as a NBA rookie.
Hali was 9.2% as a freshman and currently is 14.5% in the NBA.

Don't have a clue why you are asking this.
User avatar
Krapinsky
RealGM
Posts: 19,952
And1: 1,332
Joined: May 13, 2007
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#457 » by Krapinsky » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:37 am

Klomp wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:
minimus wrote:Draft pick should be judged after 2-3 years. Jamal Murray was considered as meh selection at very beginning of his career. He was considered as a meh again when DEN re-sgned him to max contract.


Young guys deserve time, but Lamelo has been a difference maker already and we don't need to wait 2-3 years to see he is going to be very good.

He is the same age as Edwards (to the month), playing a similar roll as Edwards coming off the bench, is averaging 12.4-7-6, and actually out shooting Edwards. I hope Edwards is as great as the next guy, but there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't trade Edwards for Ball right now.

Just because Ball is putting up those numbers in Charlotte doesn't mean he would be putting them up in Minnesota.


I'm not sure what to take from this.

Maybe his numbers would be better in MN? Maybe they would be worse? I don't see your point unless your point is it's not fair to compare players at all, in which case why does RealGm even exists?
FinnTheHuman wrote: Your post is just garbage.

NewWolvesOrder wrote:Garbage post, indeed.
theGreatRC
RealGM
Posts: 17,647
And1: 4,118
Joined: Oct 12, 2006
Location: California
 

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#458 » by theGreatRC » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:09 am

I'd def trade Edwards for Ball because I secretly wanted us to draft Ball lol.

With that said, Edwards is nothing like I thought he'd be and you can see the potential in this kid, he is a way better passer than I thought and he throws straight dimes with his off hand as well.

Give this kid at least half a season first. This is the most unique season in NBA history and Ant is getting adjusted.
2021 Wolves will make the playoffs
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 10,541
And1: 2,236
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#459 » by Jedzz » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:11 am

Killboard wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Killboard wrote:
Murray was an historic scorer for a freshman in Kentucky. And sure Hali could become a high usage player and score 25 PPG at some point, just that he isn't asked to get that role right now or was asked of him in the past.

Ant usage in college: 30.4%
Murray usage in Kentucky: 27.0%
Haliburton (as a sophmore in college): 20%

I think I have very different thoughts than you about a number of these things.

What was Towns usage in college?


23.7% in college and jumped to 24.9% as a NBA rookie.
Hali was 9.2% as a freshman and currently is 14.5% in the NBA.

Don't have a clue why you are asking this.


Just wanted to know what our only star player's usage was in college. Since you seemed to have quick access to it. Thank you
User avatar
PharmD
Head Coach
Posts: 6,392
And1: 5,126
Joined: Aug 21, 2015
 

Re: Official Anthony Edwards Thread 

Post#460 » by PharmD » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:18 am

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:


As for limited role players like Haliburton... fair enough. They're easy to find?

Maybe we should go back into the annals of Timberwolves lore and list them all...

Not easy to find players that are equally at home on ball or completely off on a smaller role. Definately not easy to find shooters of that quality that also have good game IQ and passing skills. People can call them role players all they want. He's not limited in skills. He's just not overly overbeating in nature. Doesn't mean he won't slide into a leadership role in a year or two and start taking over. Like a Murray in Denver.



Yep.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to think of many of those easy-to-find versatile, smart, highly efficient young role players in the historic annals of Wolves lore...

Tyus Jones!

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves