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Time for Saunders to go?

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Re: Rosas Interview - on Saunders “Flashes won’t be enough” 

Post#121 » by Jedzz » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:47 pm

WolfAddict wrote:At least they are aware of where the problems are... What they do with that information is where the real questions lay though


Are they really aware?

They claim they lost their best defender when Towns is out. Really, Towns is known for defense?

If Towns was/is our best defender do you think it's possible our POBO has borked the roster construction? He's only flipped the roster almost entirely like 2.5 times already. He held onto Okogie as a defensive specialist but wants to play him up against larger players he has no business defending ultimately nullifying his reach leverage just to try and match up.

11 players on the roster are under 220lbs.
8 players are 200lbs or below.

That might be a part of the defensive issue.

Another issue, the constant guard and point additions.
This offseason. Added Rubio, Edwards who thinks he's a Harden Point, Hagan, Bolmaro.

This came after the addition of Dlo and Beasley in the spring who needed more floor time, not less. They already had Culver and Okogie from the two previous drafts. They had JMac which was the cheapest access to real talent they ever had. But now they were going to have to find time for Rubio and Edwards as well. The Hagan, Bolmaro choices were just fodder. They don't have room for all these guards and it plowed the team into what we've seen this year. An additional trouble being the new guard additions from this offseason have struggled to be efficient shooters as guards.

More illogical problems...
We can thrust Edwards into early playing roles as a rook.
Just like last year thrusting Culver into early playing roles as a rook.
But they hide McDaniels from playing anything other than final blowout minutes.

The team can't put scoring pressure on the opponent when the players you are playing can't efficiently shoot. The quotes saying players just got sick of losing and showed more defense also ignores a few facts, that both Dlo and Beasley were allowed their more typical roles and to shoot more threes lately while Edwards had to take a dip in playing time and ball focus, and they've played Vanderbilt more and Layman less (dnp). These are big changes from how they started this season planning to play and causing the losses.

These things point to the POBO and Coaches not knowing their own players well enough before the season, not seeing how best to fit them together before the season. Needing constant trial and error each game to find out what works and what doesn't and taking their sweet old time figuring it out. Sort of understandable when your offseason player selections don't seem to fit all your previous player moves and you have no time in the offseason to see it all first hand. But when we can see the logjam problems before they even play, why can't the PoBO and Coaches? Why did they thrust Edwards and Culver into onball possession instagating roles so often when you have Dlo/Rubio? They even had Beasley trying to initiate more. You must ask why. The answer will tell you the reason they were willing to lose these games, willing to have near zero chemistry, willing to look defenseless as they logjammed themselves with guards all trying to initiate offense and all being told to. There is a reason why. But if nobody starts asking why, they will be able to give you quotes like lately, such as that the team finally decided to play defense. Which isn't really what happened at all.
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Re: Rosas Interview - on Saunders “Flashes won’t be enough” 

Post#122 » by WolfAddict » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:41 pm

Jedzz wrote:
WolfAddict wrote:At least they are aware of where the problems are... What they do with that information is where the real questions lay though


Are they really aware?

They claim they lost their best defender when Towns is out. Really, Towns is known for defense?

If Towns was/is our best defender do you think it's possible our POBO has borked the roster construction? He's only flipped the roster almost entirely like 2.5 times already. He held onto Okogie as a defensive specialist but wants to play him up against larger players he has no business defending ultimately nullifying his reach leverage just to try and match up.

11 players on the roster are under 220lbs.
8 players are 200lbs or below.

That might be a part of the defensive issue.

Another issue, the constant guard and point additions.
This offseason. Added Rubio, Edwards who thinks he's a Harden Point, Hagan, Bolmaro.

This came after the addition of Dlo and Beasley in the spring who needed more floor time, not less. They already had Culver and Okogie from the two previous drafts. They had JMac which was the cheapest access to real talent they ever had. But now they were going to have to find time for Rubio and Edwards as well. The Hagan, Bolmaro choices were just fodder. They don't have room for all these guards and it plowed the team into what we've seen this year. An additional trouble being the new guard additions from this offseason have struggled to be efficient shooters as guards.

More illogical problems...
We can thrust Edwards into early playing roles as a rook.
Just like last year thrusting Culver into early playing roles as a rook.
But they hide McDaniels from playing anything other than final blowout minutes.

The team can't put scoring pressure on the opponent when the players you are playing can't efficiently shoot. The quotes saying players just got sick of losing and showed more defense also ignores a few facts, that both Dlo and Beasley were allowed their more typical roles and to shoot more threes lately while Edwards had to take a dip in playing time and ball focus, and they've played Vanderbilt more and Layman less (dnp). These are big changes from how they started this season planning to play and causing the losses.

These things point to the POBO and Coaches not knowing their own players well enough before the season, not seeing how best to fit them together before the season. Needing constant trial and error each game to find out what works and what doesn't and taking their sweet old time figuring it out. Sort of understandable when your offseason player selections don't seem to fit all your previous player moves and you have no time in the offseason to see it all first hand. But when we can see the logjam problems before they even play, why can't the PoBO and Coaches? Why did they thrust Edwards and Culver into onball possession instagating roles so often when you have Dlo/Rubio? They even had Beasley trying to initiate more. You must ask why. The answer will tell you the reason they were willing to lose these games, willing to have near zero chemistry, willing to look defenseless as they logjammed themselves with guards all trying to initiate offense and all being told to. There is a reason why. But if nobody starts asking why, they will be able to give you quotes like lately, such as that the team finally decided to play defense. Which isn't really what happened at all.


I didn't read it as KAT was the best defensive player

This quote “Anytime you lose your best offensive player and your best defensive player, it’s going to change the way you play,” to me was talking about both KAT and Okogie but I may have read it wrong
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Re: Rosas Interview - on Saunders “Flashes won’t be enough” 

Post#123 » by Jedzz » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:05 pm

WolfAddict wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
WolfAddict wrote:At least they are aware of where the problems are... What they do with that information is where the real questions lay though


Are they really aware?

They claim they lost their best defender when Towns is out. Really, Towns is known for defense?

If Towns was/is our best defender do you think it's possible our POBO has borked the roster construction? He's only flipped the roster almost entirely like 2.5 times already. He held onto Okogie as a defensive specialist but wants to play him up against larger players he has no business defending ultimately nullifying his reach leverage just to try and match up.

11 players on the roster are under 220lbs.
8 players are 200lbs or below.

That might be a part of the defensive issue.

Another issue, the constant guard and point additions.
This offseason. Added Rubio, Edwards who thinks he's a Harden Point, Hagan, Bolmaro.

This came after the addition of Dlo and Beasley in the spring who needed more floor time, not less. They already had Culver and Okogie from the two previous drafts. They had JMac which was the cheapest access to real talent they ever had. But now they were going to have to find time for Rubio and Edwards as well. The Hagan, Bolmaro choices were just fodder. They don't have room for all these guards and it plowed the team into what we've seen this year. An additional trouble being the new guard additions from this offseason have struggled to be efficient shooters as guards.

More illogical problems...
We can thrust Edwards into early playing roles as a rook.
Just like last year thrusting Culver into early playing roles as a rook.
But they hide McDaniels from playing anything other than final blowout minutes.

The team can't put scoring pressure on the opponent when the players you are playing can't efficiently shoot. The quotes saying players just got sick of losing and showed more defense also ignores a few facts, that both Dlo and Beasley were allowed their more typical roles and to shoot more threes lately while Edwards had to take a dip in playing time and ball focus, and they've played Vanderbilt more and Layman less (dnp). These are big changes from how they started this season planning to play and causing the losses.

These things point to the POBO and Coaches not knowing their own players well enough before the season, not seeing how best to fit them together before the season. Needing constant trial and error each game to find out what works and what doesn't and taking their sweet old time figuring it out. Sort of understandable when your offseason player selections don't seem to fit all your previous player moves and you have no time in the offseason to see it all first hand. But when we can see the logjam problems before they even play, why can't the PoBO and Coaches? Why did they thrust Edwards and Culver into onball possession instagating roles so often when you have Dlo/Rubio? They even had Beasley trying to initiate more. You must ask why. The answer will tell you the reason they were willing to lose these games, willing to have near zero chemistry, willing to look defenseless as they logjammed themselves with guards all trying to initiate offense and all being told to. There is a reason why. But if nobody starts asking why, they will be able to give you quotes like lately, such as that the team finally decided to play defense. Which isn't really what happened at all.


I didn't read it as KAT was the best defensive player

This quote “Anytime you lose your best offensive player and your best defensive player, it’s going to change the way you play,” to me was talking about both KAT and Okogie but I may have read it wrong

You got me there I think you read it correct and I read it wrong. However I think others also heard this claim wrong earlier over the past week or so as I've seen it posted about how losing Kat and his defense hurt our defense. Regardless, I think you have it right. My bad on the Towns bit, but the rest I'll stand by. The team didn't just play better defense for a different outcome.
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Re: Rosas Interview - on Saunders “Flashes won’t be enough” 

Post#124 » by WolfAddict » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm

Jedzz wrote:
WolfAddict wrote:
I didn't read it as KAT was the best defensive player

This quote “Anytime you lose your best offensive player and your best defensive player, it’s going to change the way you play,” to me was talking about both KAT and Okogie but I may have read it wrong

You got me there I think you read it correct and I read it wrong. However I think others also heard this claim wrong earlier over the past week or so as I've seen it posted about how losing Kat and his defense hurt our defense. Regardless, I think you have it right. My bad on the Towns bit, but the rest I'll stand by. The team didn't just play better defense for a different outcome.

I should, for clarity sake, say that I agree with your points though.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#125 » by wolves_89 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:33 am

The temperature on Saunders already warm seat went up a fair amount tonight.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#126 » by IceManBK1 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:36 am

Idk wtf he's thinking trying to come back with small ball when we need defense and rebounding and more shooters to spread the floor. Sigh* our whole bench can't shoot. You're in trouble when your best shooter off the bench is Naz Reid.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#127 » by Domejandro » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 am

IceManBK1 wrote:Idk wtf he's thinking trying to come back with small ball when we need defense and rebounding and more shooters to spread the floor. Sigh* our whole bench can't shoot. You're in trouble when your best shooter off the bench is Naz Reid.

Who do you play? Minnesota’s roster sucks.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#128 » by ChiefKeith91 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:58 am

[*]
Domejandro wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:Idk wtf he's thinking trying to come back with small ball when we need defense and rebounding and more shooters to spread the floor. Sigh* our whole bench can't shoot. You're in trouble when your best shooter off the bench is Naz Reid.

Who do you play? Minnesota’s roster sucks.


To finish games (Last 6-7 mins) it should be
DLO
Beas
Okogie
JV
Towns

Or swap Ant for Okogie the more games he's plays
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#129 » by Domejandro » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:04 am

ChiefKeith91 wrote:[*]
Domejandro wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:Idk wtf he's thinking trying to come back with small ball when we need defense and rebounding and more shooters to spread the floor. Sigh* our whole bench can't shoot. You're in trouble when your best shooter off the bench is Naz Reid.

Who do you play? Minnesota’s roster sucks.


To finish games (Last 6-7 mins) it should be
DLO
Beas
Okogie
JV
Towns

Or swap Ant for Okogie the more games he's plays

The guy who racked up 5 fouls in 14 minutes of play?

I’m sorry, but when you are clamoring towards playing Jarred Vanderbilt in closing minutes, that just shows how horrific your roster construction is.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#130 » by LesGrossman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:08 am

He doesnt seem to have any concept on offense or defense. Guys either stand or move without any plan. He is more concerned with pampering KAT and DLo, playing time and who starts and who isnt than he is with winning, apparently. I think its raelly time to cut off before things get ugly and KAT, DLO demand trades (because thats how it goes these days).
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#131 » by UnFadeable21 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:39 am

Taylor Jenkins has schooled Ryan Saunders 3 games in a row this season.

His two young stars are out and he makes second half adjustments to come back from 10 down in the 4th.

The Ryan fanboys have run out of excuses.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#132 » by PharmD » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:44 am

UnFadeable21 wrote:The Ryan fanboys have run out of excuses.

There are Ryan Fanboys??

Maybe Glen Taylor and the actual Timberwolves players but i don't think he has fanboys outside of that.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#133 » by karch34 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:07 am

I think Ryan was a good assistant but got promoted to early. Think he can still be a good HC, but in his next gig after he goes through more of trenches to get up the ladder that non-players who made it typically go through. I think he's just not at that point where he says "Gerson I know this is the vision, but we aren't built like that so we need to adjust until we are or we modify the vision".
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#134 » by casteral » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:23 am

TBH ,it's a flawed vision with a more flawed roster attempting to support that vision. Saunders doesn't help things, not that he can, but prob was kept/promoted to full time coach based on Taylor's request/demand. Most every issue with this team, other than them not leaving Minneapolis, start and stop with Taylor and his decisions tbh smh.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#135 » by TheAlanParsons » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:36 am

When is Taylor going to finally sell the team? Jesus. When or if he does a complete house cleaning is in order- new front office, new coaches, possibly trade away anyone who has value. Take this team down to the studs.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#136 » by Sugarless » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:22 am

LesGrossman wrote:He doesnt seem to have any concept on offense or defense. Guys either stand or move without any plan. He is more concerned with pampering KAT and DLo, playing time and who starts and who isnt than he is with winning, apparently. I think its raelly time to cut off before things get ugly and KAT, DLO demand trades (because thats how it goes these days).


That could actually be one of the best things to happen to this franchise, if they also got a good GM and at least a passable coach along the way. KAT and 'Angelo aren't taking this team anywhere. Not this year, not in a decade. The longer they continue to try to make it work, the longer the Wolves will suck.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#137 » by Jedzz » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:39 am

karch34 wrote:I think Ryan was a good assistant but got promoted to early. Think he can still be a good HC, but in his next gig after he goes through more of trenches to get up the ladder that non-players who made it typically go through. I think he's just not at that point where he says "Gerson I know this is the vision, but we aren't built like that so we need to adjust until we are or we modify the vision".


That has to have happened to some extent already, internally at some level. Because they aren't aiming for over 40 threes anymore. Wed game they ultimately got to 37 as they jacked up a bunch trynig to catch Grizz pulling away. But so far this season 30 3s has been the target so they haven't been playing the same way. They've turned the need for Dlo to occasionally throw up shorter jumpers into the whole team being allowed to and generally either have schemed away from a high amount of 3s or the players themselves are shying away from them.

But that concerns me. Because what we were told last season was just dropped on it's head. This small ball thing was going to require shooting those threes all game long and then even at 30% which they sometimes reached last season as a team the offense does compete. That was their claimed analytics scheme culture and even though we didn't have multiple 40% shooters then they were going to play that way to build that culture and slowly add better shooters. Right? Of course we aren't seeing even 30% right now, but still the attempts just aren't there. So the spacing isn't quite as good most games. Can you believe they are shooting these 3s worse than last season? 24% special in Wed. game.

I do also condemn this size issue. Even if you don't play them in every game, have the players on roster ready to help in games you need them. How did Davis not play this game at all? When they were getting pushed around he should have been utilized a little.

I still say go get Patton. He offers the size, blocks capability/desire, and helps with shooting and ball movement. We all know the story of him being a guard in a centers sized body. Isn't that exactly what the doctor is ordering here?
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#138 » by _AIJ_ » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:00 pm

Ryan has a lot of excuses


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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#139 » by Baseline81 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:14 pm

_AIJ_ wrote:Ryan has a lot of excuses

And I'm tired of hearing every single one.
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Re: Time for Saunders to go? 

Post#140 » by UnFadeable21 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:13 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=21

The wolves are the worst team in the west. Worst than OKC. That should tell you something.

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