Time for Saunders to go?

[Jedzz]

They won? Perfect timing.

Spoiler:

[thinktank]

Ultimately, Abe’s point is that Wolves coaches should not be held accountable.

And I disagree.

I don't agree with a lot of what Abe is saying, but this is just plain wrong and not needed.

He's said a number of times that the coaching staff are all to blame to a certain degree, so to say otherwise is either disingenuous or baiting for the sake of it.

Yeah. Don't really know what's so disturbing about what I've written.

1) Saunders is not a good coach.
2) Fire him if you want. It's inevitable he'll be fired. I'm not even arguing he doesn't deserve to be fired.
3) It's not about one coach. The Wolves have EIGHT coaches for a reason. They all have input. Just moving one over a chair in the interim role... ok. But the same guys will be making the decisions they're already making. Only we'll have a new guy to address the media about it.
4) Wolves fans tend to blame coaches A LOT over the years... when it's a players league and they have so much more impact on wins and losses. But I guess it's easier to hold out hope in the players and that the the situation is not entirely dire. So if the argument is that Russell or Towns or Beasley or other important player has tuned out Saunders... ok. Connecting with the star players is probably the most important part of the gig. Having Russell on the same page as the coach WILL make the Wolves a better team. The question is whether an interim guy has any more clout than the super green Saunders?

So fire away. My point is that the team still sucks without Towns out there... and maybe even with him.

Again I ask you, how do you propose we instill accountability within Saunders?

You’ve offered none.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't agree with a lot of what Abe is saying, but this is just plain wrong and not needed.

He's said a number of times that the coaching staff are all to blame to a certain degree, so to say otherwise is either disingenuous or baiting for the sake of it.

Yeah. Don't really know what's so disturbing about what I've written.

1) Saunders is not a good coach.
2) Fire him if you want. It's inevitable he'll be fired. I'm not even arguing he doesn't deserve to be fired.
3) It's not about one coach. The Wolves have EIGHT coaches for a reason. They all have input. Just moving one over a chair in the interim role... ok. But the same guys will be making the decisions they're already making. Only we'll have a new guy to address the media about it.
4) Wolves fans tend to blame coaches A LOT over the years... when it's a players league and they have so much more impact on wins and losses. But I guess it's easier to hold out hope in the players and that the the situation is not entirely dire. So if the argument is that Russell or Towns or Beasley or other important player has tuned out Saunders... ok. Connecting with the star players is probably the most important part of the gig. Having Russell on the same page as the coach WILL make the Wolves a better team. The question is whether an interim guy has any more clout than the super green Saunders?

So fire away. My point is that the team still sucks without Towns out there... and maybe even with him.

Again I ask you, how do you propose we instill accountability within Saunders?

You’ve offered none.

Ummm...

--------

"Fire him if you want."

"So fire away."

-------

I don't care if Saunders is fired. As for accountability... I think that there's a lack of accountability permeating through the organization.

- Things like making a player "promise to try harder" before giving him $150M.
- Things like chasing a player and overpaying for him in a trade... after that player jilted you the previous year... but didn't have the balls to tell you until AFTER he got a free helicopter ride and pitch from you.
- Things like having a player blow up the team in a staged ESPN PR stunt... and have the coach and top exec side with that player.
- Things like having Mark Madsen shoot 7 three pointers in the last game of the regular season to win an extra ping pong ball... and then sell that pick for money in the owner's pocket... shortly before the owner blames the only HOFer in the team's history for "tanking" shortly before that HOFer wins a title with a well-run organization.

Accountability doesn't come with firing one coach. Or the next. Or the next. Or the next. Accountability doesn't come with trading one alleged star player. Or the next. Accountability has to come from the top down in an organization.

Firing Saunders is warranted. But it does nothing if Rosas is not held accountable for this mess of a roster. And firing Rosas does nothing if Taylor is not held accountable for overseeing the clearcut worst NBA team in history... and either making a ton of boneheaded decisions, or repeatedly hiring people who make a ton of boneheaded decisions.

[wolves_89]

It's a sad commentary on the team and coaching staff that every night they seem to find a new way to be embarrassing. How many comically embarrassing games can one team survive?

[Jedzz]

Again I ask you, how do you propose we instill accountability within Saunders?

You’ve offered none.

Ummm...

--------

"Fire him if you want."

"So fire away."

-------

I don't care if Saunders is fired. As for accountability... I think that there's a lack of accountability permeating through the organization.

Firing Saunders is warranted. But it does nothing if Rosas is not held accountable for this mess of a roster. And firing Rosas does nothing if Taylor is not held accountable for overseeing the clearcut worst NBA team in history... and either making a ton of boneheaded decisions, or repeatedly hiring people who make a ton of boneheaded decisions.

So...the answer is do nothing because you expect them to screw up the next decision on who?

Let's just ride it out then and see if this ride on the swirling edge of this black hole lead somewhere as we all fall into it. Maybe once on the other side it will be a brand new universe where the Wolves can do no wrong. We could just never see it from the other side. That or nothing will be left but a mess of pieces floating off into the league which is our typical path anyway.

[Folklore]

Yeah. Don't really know what's so disturbing about what I've written.

1) Saunders is not a good coach.
2) Fire him if you want. It's inevitable he'll be fired. I'm not even arguing he doesn't deserve to be fired.
3) It's not about one coach. The Wolves have EIGHT coaches for a reason. They all have input. Just moving one over a chair in the interim role... ok. But the same guys will be making the decisions they're already making. Only we'll have a new guy to address the media about it.
4) Wolves fans tend to blame coaches A LOT over the years... when it's a players league and they have so much more impact on wins and losses. But I guess it's easier to hold out hope in the players and that the the situation is not entirely dire. So if the argument is that Russell or Towns or Beasley or other important player has tuned out Saunders... ok. Connecting with the star players is probably the most important part of the gig. Having Russell on the same page as the coach WILL make the Wolves a better team. The question is whether an interim guy has any more clout than the super green Saunders?

So fire away. My point is that the team still sucks without Towns out there... and maybe even with him.

Again I ask you, how do you propose we instill accountability within Saunders?

You’ve offered none.

Ummm...

--------

"Fire him if you want."

"So fire away."

-------

I don't care if Saunders is fired. As for accountability... I think that there's a lack of accountability permeating through the organization.

- Things like making a player "promise to try harder" before giving him $150M.
- Things like chasing a player and overpaying for him in a trade... after that player jilted you the previous year... but didn't have the balls to tell you until AFTER he got a free helicopter ride and pitch from you.
- Things like having a player blow up the team in a staged ESPN PR stunt... and have the coach and top exec side with that player.
- Things like having Mark Madsen shoot 7 three pointers in the last game of the regular season to win an extra ping pong ball... and then sell that pick for money in the owner's pocket... shortly before the owner blames the only HOFer in the team's history for "tanking" shortly before that HOFer wins a title with a well-run organization.

Accountability doesn't come with firing one coach. Or the next. Or the next. Or the next. Accountability doesn't come with trading one alleged star player. Or the next. Accountability has to come from the top down in an organization.

Firing Saunders is warranted. But it does nothing if Rosas is not held accountable for this mess of a roster. And firing Rosas does nothing if Taylor is not held accountable for overseeing the clearcut worst NBA team in history... and either making a ton of boneheaded decisions, or repeatedly hiring people who make a ton of boneheaded decisions.

I'm someone else didnt foret that bs move.Rosas and Glen should have never kissed his ass after that. Outside of a photo-shoot I've never seen Towns and Russ together. They're just associates.A team should never be built on who's buddies.

This team wont change unless Glen says eff this and turns the team over to his wife.She'll have to clean house and bring in a vet coach. probably Van Gundy or

[Jedzz]

- Things like chasing a player and overpaying for him in a trade... after that player jilted you the previous year... but didn't have the balls to tell you until AFTER he got a free helicopter ride and pitch from you.

I'm someone else didnt foret that bs move.Rosas and Glen should have never kissed his ass after that. Outside of a photo-shoot I've never seen Towns and Russ together. They're just associates.A team should never be built on who's buddies.

Maybe while on the ride they discussed how the team didn't yet have the cap room for him, but how they had a plan involving another team who had a max slot that needed temporary filling, and that a half season later they could swing a Wiggins for Russell trade. All MN had to do was take on a couple of GSW's middling contracts to help make it happen. If all parties were in on this plan from the start it helps make all things transpiring between the teams make more sense. Such as:

Jul 8, 2019
The draft rights to Lior Eliyahu and multiple TPEs were acquired by the Golden State Warriors from the Minnesota Timberwolves in exchange for: Treveon Graham, Shabazz Napier and cash.

Which was timed with:
July 7, 2019
D'angelo Russell signs with Warriors.

It is just too bad they couldn't have done the Wiggins trade with Warriors right then but they had their own Durant situation and had to find a way to keep or create a max slot which Dlo did for them, as well as Wolves taking those players off their hands to help make it happen.

So it seems to me this was all Wiggins/Russell and Warriors relationship primers related, and the team didn't seek out and target players like Treveon Graham and Napier to improve this roster in Rosas first year. It only saddens me they seemed to feel like playing Graham at all was necessary for the partial season he was here. Apparently they felt compelled to put on an act for a partial season.

It doesn't appear that Russell chose Warriors over Kat/Timberwolves at all. This was likely the plan everyone involved agreed to in order to get him here. Imagine how crazy and twisted the plans in their heads might be for trying to get Booker here.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Again I ask you, how do you propose we instill accountability within Saunders?

You’ve offered none.

Ummm...

--------

"Fire him if you want."

"So fire away."

-------

I don't care if Saunders is fired. As for accountability... I think that there's a lack of accountability permeating through the organization.

Firing Saunders is warranted. But it does nothing if Rosas is not held accountable for this mess of a roster. And firing Rosas does nothing if Taylor is not held accountable for overseeing the clearcut worst NBA team in history... and either making a ton of boneheaded decisions, or repeatedly hiring people who make a ton of boneheaded decisions.

So...the answer is do nothing because you expect them to screw up the next decision on who?

Let's just ride it out then and see if this ride on the swirling edge of this black hole lead somewhere as we all fall into it. Maybe once on the other side it will be a brand new universe where the Wolves can do no wrong. We could just never see it from the other side. That or nothing will be left but a mess of pieces floating off into the league which is our typical path anyway.

I literally wrote "fire him"... and then copied and pasted "fire him." I literally wrote about a dozen times now that Saunders is "not good"... and that his firing is warranted.

My point is that the Wolves are a really bad franchise (the absolute worst in NBA history) and that you don't attain that status just by having a bunch of bad coaches. The accountability issue doesn't begin and end with this coach... the previously fired coach... the previously fired coach... the previously fired coach or the previously fired coach.

Accountability goes much deeper than the coaching staff.

[thinktank]

Glad you’ve come to see it my way and you agree we should fire him.

Before you disagreed.

[Jedzz]

Ummm...

--------

"Fire him if you want."

"So fire away."

-------

I don't care if Saunders is fired. As for accountability... I think that there's a lack of accountability permeating through the organization.

Firing Saunders is warranted. But it does nothing if Rosas is not held accountable for this mess of a roster. And firing Rosas does nothing if Taylor is not held accountable for overseeing the clearcut worst NBA team in history... and either making a ton of boneheaded decisions, or repeatedly hiring people who make a ton of boneheaded decisions.

So...the answer is do nothing because you expect them to screw up the next decision on who?

Let's just ride it out then and see if this ride on the swirling edge of this black hole lead somewhere as we all fall into it. Maybe once on the other side it will be a brand new universe where the Wolves can do no wrong. We could just never see it from the other side. That or nothing will be left but a mess of pieces floating off into the league which is our typical path anyway.

I literally wrote "fire him"... and then copied and pasted "fire him." I literally wrote about a dozen times now that Saunders is "not good"... and that his firing is warranted.

My point is that the Wolves are a really bad franchise (the absolute worst in NBA history) and that you don't attain that status just by having a bunch of bad coaches. The accountability issue doesn't begin and end with this coach... the previously fired coach... the previously fired coach... the previously fired coach or the previously fired coach.

Accountability goes much deeper than the coaching staff.

Yeah I agree. And yet hiring an established Coach with history of winning something before or coming from a well respected franchise might also change everything. Depends on the hire, I know you already put doubt on that choice. I also don't like the idea of sliding someone from within up if they do it. Then nothing much likely changes.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Glad you’ve come to see it my way and you agree we should fire him.

Before you disagreed.

Please quote where I specifically stated that Saunders should keep his job.

[AbeVigodaLive]

So...the answer is do nothing because you expect them to screw up the next decision on who?

Let's just ride it out then and see if this ride on the swirling edge of this black hole lead somewhere as we all fall into it. Maybe once on the other side it will be a brand new universe where the Wolves can do no wrong. We could just never see it from the other side. That or nothing will be left but a mess of pieces floating off into the league which is our typical path anyway.

I literally wrote "fire him"... and then copied and pasted "fire him." I literally wrote about a dozen times now that Saunders is "not good"... and that his firing is warranted.

My point is that the Wolves are a really bad franchise (the absolute worst in NBA history) and that you don't attain that status just by having a bunch of bad coaches. The accountability issue doesn't begin and end with this coach... the previously fired coach... the previously fired coach... the previously fired coach or the previously fired coach.

Accountability goes much deeper than the coaching staff.

Yeah I agree. And yet hiring an established Coach with history of winning something before or coming from a well respected franchise might also change everything. Depends on the hire, I know you already put doubt on that choice. I also don't like the idea of sliding someone from within up if they do it. Then nothing much likely changes.

I think that's the only option, right?

Hire somebody who can transcend the losing culture the Wolves have here. The Wolves tried that with Thibs, to mixed, albeit failed results in the end. But it doesn't mean the Wolves shouldn't keep trying.

It doesn't even have to be an old sage, grouchy vet coach. It simply needs to be somebody who can get the players to buy into the message. Sometimes, young players listen to a guy with experience and history of success. Many times, we've seen young guys take over and the players buy in.

What's the secret sauce?

Personally... I think it comes down to what my entire argument is based on... it's about the PLAYERS. Is Russell or Towns or Beasley willing to listen to the coach? Because at the end of the day, substitution patterns and the TO usage and out-of-bounds plays are largely irrelevant if the players aren't really listening or working in connection with the head coach.

I will ALWAYS argue that being a good NBA head coach means the players trust and respect you and listen to you. None of these 8- to 10-man coaching staffs are "dumb." But not all of them have the ability to "lead." More importantly... not all of them have players WILLING to be led.

Does that make sense?

[Crazy-Canuck]

The path to accountability will be through kat; if kat is the franchise player everyone believes he is.

Its a players league and great players will win games and make others around them better.

Coaches need to be able to manage egos, but that doesnt mean letting the players walk all over you.

[WolfAddict]

Glad you’ve come to see it my way and you agree we should fire him.

Before you disagreed.

The smug is strong with this one...

Could your post be any more sanctimonious?

[life_saver]

I honestly don't understand why Malik is averaging just around 31 mpg...with KAT being out, why doesn't Ryan give more playing time to Malik? Without KAT, Beasley is Wolves best shooter and probably best scorer. Considering how many closes losses Wolves suffered recently, maybe Beasley getting more playing time would have made a difference in some of these close losses

[wolves_89]

Two games in a row the Wolves have had first quarters that looked like the final nail in Saunders coffin, yet after ridiculously bad starts the team fought back to make the games competitive. Saunders seems like he's hanging onto his job by the smallest of margins.

[WolfAddict]

Two games in a row the Wolves have had first quarters that looked like the final nail in Saunders coffin, yet after ridiculously bad starts the team fought back to make the games competitive. Saunders seems like he's hanging onto his job by the smallest of margins.

Continually having to fight back in games would, in my opinion, only cement the fact that Saunders isn't up to par and should probably take a step back. His "plans" are non-existent and if it wasn't Beas going off single handed it'd be blow out after blow out

[Sugarless]

I guess no one on the coaching staff finds anything wrong with this:

Timberwolves' top-5 players with the most FGA per 100 possessions

D'Angelo Russell - 26.5
Malik Beasley - 24.9
Anthony Edwards - 24.1
Jaylen Nowell - 23.6
Karl-Anthony Towns - 23.5

[Jedzz]

I guess no one on the coaching staff finds anything wrong with this:

Timberwolves' top-5 players with the most FGA per 100 possessions

D'Angelo Russell - 26.5
Malik Beasley - 24.9
Anthony Edwards - 24.1
Jaylen Nowell - 23.6
Karl-Anthony Towns - 23.5

I'm not sure what this post is supposed to be claiming exactly.

Is there a long list of better shooters on the team that should be taking more? Maybe JMac or McDaniels?
Maybe I'm missing the point, should more of the team be more involved?

Per game nobody is avg 23-26 that I know of:
*Beasley avg 17 (reached 23 one game)
*Russell avg 17 (his lowest since 2017, but he's reached 20 plenty of times this season)
*Nowell avg is 8.6/g which seems really high considering he's only avg 17mpg, thus the per100. But that may just be that he's good at becoming a passing target, or that defenses are allowing him, like they allow Okogie/Rubio. I think it is more because Nowell is capable of putting the ball on the court under pressure and buying space for a shot yet, and maybe he also needs to move the ball to the next guy a few more times than he has. But again, at 17 minutes he's not ruling outcomes of these games.

I wonder, are you just pointing out that D'Angelo's per100 his highest? Because, what happens when he takes the week off and the team is still losing like we've seen? Maybe you are just pointing out Dlo being at top and Towns being at bottom and you believe it should be flipped? But since they've barely played together this season yet and Towns just getting back I don't expect him in rare form yet...maybe it's premature if that's the point. Sure, I would like to see a hint of a game where Towns is more the focus. But I think we all know Mr. Rosas scheme is all about guards.

[Klomp]

I guess no one on the coaching staff finds anything wrong with this:

Timberwolves' top-5 players with the most FGA per 100 possessions

D'Angelo Russell - 26.5
Malik Beasley - 24.9
Anthony Edwards - 24.1
Jaylen Nowell - 23.6
Karl-Anthony Towns - 23.5

Towns has played a grand total of six games. During the other 20 games, someone has to be taking those shots. They get redistributed, inflating some totals.