ImageImageImage

The wolves are going to have to get older.

Moderators: Domejandro, Calinks, Worm Guts

Calinks
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 42,024
And1: 9,621
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#1 » by Calinks » Fri Jan 8, 2021 7:33 pm

One thing that didn't register with me before the season started was that we are the youngest team in the NBA. As we know from experience, that usually spells disaster. It's very hard for young teams to win consistently in the NBA, you generally need some incredible talent and a really good system fit to do so.

Here is an article about the Grizzlies last year and what it means to be a young team in the NBA

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2020/2/24/21143017/being-the-youngest-team-in-the-nba-mean-memphis-grizzlies-ja-morant-brandon-clarke-jaren-jackson-jr

It shows that only a couple of young teams seem to manage to crack the playoffs in any given season. I think the greatest thing Thibs did to accelerate winning was bringing in a lot of veterans. We can argue that he sacrificed the future but he knew he wasn't going to win anything with his young roster any time soon, he went out and brought in vets like Butler, Gibson, Deng, Rose, Teague, etc to age up his key roles.

When Thibs had a young team, he only managed to get 31 wins. The following season after the team aged up they jumped to 47 wins, could have been 50 without injuries.

We are going to have to bring in some more vets and party ways with some of our younger talent if we want to quickly jump-start this team into a playoff contender. Part of the reason why we look so outclassed every night without KAT is that without his talent our youth and inexperience really gets taken advantage of. We are playing against teams with more cohesion and more maturity, their players know where to be, how to cut, which plays to make etc. we are still figuring that out there is a clear difference on the floor.
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.
User avatar
packforfreedom
Veteran
Posts: 2,969
And1: 3,346
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
 

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#2 » by packforfreedom » Fri Jan 8, 2021 7:37 pm

Getting older is the easiest thing in the world. You literally just have to wait.

So we're fine then.

;)
mercgold3
General Manager
Posts: 9,403
And1: 3,167
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
   

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#3 » by mercgold3 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 7:43 pm

Is about quality. Not experience.
Sure that experience has little bit to do about it... But this roster ceilling is not that good as many of you think it is.

Unless Edwards becomes a superstar, we are again, stuck.

And i expect in one or two years KAT asking for a trade.
winforlose
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 122
Joined: Feb 27, 2020

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#4 » by winforlose » Fri Jan 8, 2021 9:07 pm

Good coaching helps young talent. Ryan Saunders proves the inverse.
Rookie-Mistake
Senior
Posts: 691
And1: 213
Joined: Jun 27, 2008
         

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#5 » by Rookie-Mistake » Fri Jan 8, 2021 9:52 pm

Culture.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using RealGM mobile app
Neeva
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,756
And1: 1,236
Joined: Jun 03, 2016

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#6 » by Neeva » Fri Jan 8, 2021 9:59 pm

The only thing that will change the culture is a lebron like generational talent.... Kat aint that, he’s good but not that.

The hope is that Chet or Bates are that guy, wolves need that 2022 pick!
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 10,467
And1: 2,228
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#7 » by Jedzz » Sat Jan 9, 2021 12:30 am

excuses
Nick K
Starter
Posts: 2,180
And1: 557
Joined: Nov 23, 2016
       

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#8 » by Nick K » Sat Jan 9, 2021 1:54 am

Excluding Kat, we have only 2 nba starters on our roster. Dlo and Rubio. Beasley came off the bench and so did Juancho, Davis etc.

People have said trade Kat and rebuild which is ridiculous because he's our best player by a mile and we have the young talent already.

No wonder why we're struggling.
Neeva
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,756
And1: 1,236
Joined: Jun 03, 2016

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#9 » by Neeva » Sat Jan 9, 2021 2:24 am

Lack of talent and winning is percisely why you Trade Kat before he asks to be traded, be proactive instead of reactive. Total rebuild with hopefully Emoni Bates or Chet as number 1 option moving forward and when one of them become a superstar (it is inevitable) , Ant and Culver(and our pick this year if it’s top 3) might be good options 2 to 4 to actually contend in the east (after expansion) and not be what the wolves are today with only one good player in Kat!
minimus
General Manager
Posts: 8,735
And1: 2,288
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#10 » by minimus » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:33 am

We need a veteran bigman like Bogut (GSW), Marc Gasol (TOR) to make a huge leap. He would set a tone both in practice and in games. I also still think Rubio will be much much better going forward.
Rookie-Mistake
Senior
Posts: 691
And1: 213
Joined: Jun 27, 2008
         

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#11 » by Rookie-Mistake » Sat Jan 9, 2021 11:04 am

Loses. I can take.

20 years of following this team implode on a regular basis. I can take.

Miss hits in the draft. I can take.

Consistent blowouts and lack of effort from the players is absolutely inexcusable. Sort it out Ryan.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Killboard
Analyst
Posts: 3,349
And1: 928
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#12 » by Killboard » Sat Jan 9, 2021 2:09 pm

Ideally you want to surround your best player with similar aged players. That works not only to get to peak performance together but for chemistry as well. Exception would be when your best player is old and you need some young player to mask up for his lack of energy.
I think the FO made an effort to bring in Russell in an attempt to keep KAT here on the later part of his current contract. There is still a chance Towns could ask for a trade, but that always was a possibility.

Also, Thibs bringed in veterans, but spended valuable resources the wolves had at the time. He traded Lavine, a former 5th pick, traded back in that draft, and spent all the cap remaining in FA the wolves had while Towns was still on a rookie contract. But it wasn't for free, was a once in a while oportunity. And then, a couple of years later, those veterans are role players on minimum contracts.

But I concurr with the general idea of age and experience are needed to win. I'm seeing it with Edwards who is very skilled but for every good thing he does he does a naive error as well. Would be a mistake if Rosas continuosly flushes the experienced assets and gives significant minutes to prone mistake youngsters, but I think the idea here in the last league year was get young talent and see what sticks. Younger players who can become rotation players are much better assets than 33 or 34 year old players for other teams.

Still, KAT, Dlo, Beasley, Juancho, Layman, Rubio and Davis were all brought in by the current front office and aren't exactly inexperienced players. That's basically half of the rotation. And almost all of them had a slow start, which was exacerbated after KAT injury which forced them in others roles.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 45,496
And1: 6,091
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#13 » by shrink » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:39 pm

Finally a goal that this team will reach!
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 45,496
And1: 6,091
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#14 » by shrink » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:50 pm

Ok, I guess this is a good place for a little optimism.

Three players have been better than I expected .. our last three #1 picks. Okogie, Culver, and Edwards all seem to have taken a step forward, and this is the growth from within that good teams need. KAT has actually looked better on defense too, and this may help him be a better team leader.

I know fans get tired of the “wait until next year” mantra we hear about this team every year, but we are hitting a lot of singles now with these three (and Naz, McLaughlin) and maybe Edwards and KAT can become home runs. I don’t want to see us provide value in a trade by including any of them for for an expensive PF to try to be a borderline playoff team this year. I want to see us develop our youth, establish a system, compete, and do all we can to be a consistently strong franchise for the future.
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 10,467
And1: 2,228
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#15 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:52 am

shrink wrote:Ok, I guess this is a good place for a little optimism.

Three players have been better than I expected .. our last three #1 picks. Okogie, Culver, and Edwards all seem to have taken a step forward, and this is the growth from within that good teams need. KAT has actually looked better on defense too, and this may help him be a better team leader.

I know fans get tired of the “wait until next year” mantra we hear about this team every year, but we are hitting a lot of singles now with these three (and Naz, McLaughlin) and maybe Edwards and KAT can become home runs. I don’t want to see us provide value in a trade by including any of them for for an expensive PF to try to be a borderline playoff team this year. I want to see us develop our youth, establish a system, compete, and do all we can to be a consistently strong franchise for the future.


Edwards, 0-8 Multiples flubs and rough decisions today during a Team win. 0pts.
Culver = 2 pts in the win.

Beasley must be a big disappointment this season right?

Hey Wolves, let's keep losing so Shrink can have a top 3 pick to attach to Dlo/Beasley in a trade this offseason. And then the Wolves can go pickless in 2022 instead. That will be great offseason fun anyway.
User avatar
packforfreedom
Veteran
Posts: 2,969
And1: 3,346
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
 

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#16 » by packforfreedom » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:46 am

Culver played good though. Points aren't everything.
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 56,270
And1: 12,325
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#17 » by Klomp » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:40 pm

Something caught my attention while rewatching last night's broadcast. JimPete was talking about screen-setting and specifically Marcin Gortat. When asked how he became such a good screen-setter, Gortat said Steve Nash taught him.

Gortat was 26/27 in his first season playing with Steve Nash. Minnesota has 3 players that old on the roster. Never too old to learn, to get better at your craft.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
minimus
General Manager
Posts: 8,735
And1: 2,288
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#18 » by minimus » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:01 pm

Klomp wrote:Something caught my attention while rewatching last night's broadcast. JimPete was talking about screen-setting and specifically Marcin Gortat. When asked how he became such a good screen-setter, Gortat said Steve Nash taught him.

Gortat was 26/27 in his first season playing with Steve Nash. Minnesota has 3 players that old on the roster. Never too old to learn, to get better at your craft.


We need more guys who can give us screen assists.
User avatar
Foye
Club Captain- German Soccer
Posts: 23,386
And1: 2,709
Joined: Jul 29, 2008
Location: Frankfurt
 

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#19 » by Foye » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:16 pm

shrink wrote:Ok, I guess this is a good place for a little optimism.

Three players have been better than I expected .. our last three #1 picks. Okogie, Culver, and Edwards all seem to have taken a step forward, and this is the growth from within that good teams need. KAT has actually looked better on defense too, and this may help him be a better team leader.

I know fans get tired of the “wait until next year” mantra we hear about this team every year, but we are hitting a lot of singles now with these three (and Naz, McLaughlin) and maybe Edwards and KAT can become home runs. I don’t want to see us provide value in a trade by including any of them for for an expensive PF to try to be a borderline playoff team this year. I want to see us develop our youth, establish a system, compete, and do all we can to be a consistently strong franchise for the future.


Edwards has been fairly bad.
13 ppg on 13 FGA and an assist: turnover ratio of 1 is not what you would hope for from your no. 1 pick. Decision making seems to be questionable as well as evidenced by our OT loss and his general shot selection.

He has shown some flashes but nothing to be overly excited about.
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 10,467
And1: 2,228
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: The wolves are going to have to get older. 

Post#20 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:37 pm

Keep adding lotto picks and expecting to play them too much and you can claim too young and need time/aging forever.

Keep building lopsided rosters and it really won't matter what the ages are.

Claim a strict style/scheme to build culture one year, abandon it the next year. Prepate to lose games.


They won yesterday without their #1 player. Something we were told repeatedly can't happen as the excuse for all the losses.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves