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Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2.

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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#21 » by K4P » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:03 am

- The combination of Okogie and Vando on defense is so pleasing to watch. Multiple efforts on every play and they are both purposeful about crashing the glass. Credit to Rosas for snatching Vanderbilt in that Denver trade.

- Beasley is just a professional shooting guard and second most consistent player on the team. Most definitely worth his contract.

- People were bashing Saunders for not starting Edwards or having him more involved, but these last 2 games we've seen why he made that choice. The kid is talented but has absolutely no idea what he's doing on defense, and doesn't look comfortable offensively either.

- Juancho is just not a good basketball player. Having a quality big wing next to KAT that can defend and is at least a shooting threat (ex. OG Anunoby) would push this team to the next level.

- Culver's lack of confidence has been pretty concerning. He's gotta find a niche he can bring every night as right now he's not really consistent at anything

- I really think this team could be pretty good once the rotations are figured out and guys learn to synergize (ex. Rubio-Russell pairing)

Go Wolves!
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#22 » by Dewey » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:14 pm

Heimdal wrote:This game showed why you can't play an all-offense zero-defense 5. Opposing teams get hot and then you see guys having career games on you. See Lonnie Walker IV literally smiling at how easy scoring was in the first quarter.

Vanderbilt and Okogie are crucial. Rubio also played pretty good defense all game long. With these guys on defense you can hide Russell's lack of intensity or Beasley's lapses. With them, even when the opponent scores, the effort it takes wears them out. See Aldridge and Mills: hey had to sweat for every point and they eventually couldn't keep going. The rest of the Spurs weren't even a factor as the game progressed.

Okogie and Vanderbilt should start beside Towns. Def. rating will be sooooo much better with them. Whatever we lose on offense (Russell, Beasley and Towns will still score a lot), we win on defense, opponents not going nuts, rebounding, fastbreaks, etc. Insert Rubio for any of Russell and Beasley, and let Rubio feed Towns.

I'm really worried about Culver. He's becoming a one-trick pony: fakes a 3 nobody is scared of, and attacks the basket where a brick wall is waiting. You could say almost the same thing of Edwards.


Why are they “standing” at the 3point line??? That’s the problem. Like Rubio and Okogie, these types of players need to be moving (cutting, screening, pick the picker, picket fences,etc). Wake up
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#23 » by SkyhookinUrMom » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:27 pm

DLo & Beasley: 18/39
rest of the team: 16/42

You might win the odd game if your scorers are inspired, but we are not talking Harden and Doncic here. Lazy gameplan game after game. If you want to develop the young guns they need touches and to get involved.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#24 » by Heimdal » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:44 pm

Dewey wrote:
Heimdal wrote:This game showed why you can't play an all-offense zero-defense 5. Opposing teams get hot and then you see guys having career games on you. See Lonnie Walker IV literally smiling at how easy scoring was in the first quarter.

Vanderbilt and Okogie are crucial. Rubio also played pretty good defense all game long. With these guys on defense you can hide Russell's lack of intensity or Beasley's lapses. With them, even when the opponent scores, the effort it takes wears them out. See Aldridge and Mills: hey had to sweat for every point and they eventually couldn't keep going. The rest of the Spurs weren't even a factor as the game progressed.

Okogie and Vanderbilt should start beside Towns. Def. rating will be sooooo much better with them. Whatever we lose on offense (Russell, Beasley and Towns will still score a lot), we win on defense, opponents not going nuts, rebounding, fastbreaks, etc. Insert Rubio for any of Russell and Beasley, and let Rubio feed Towns.

I'm really worried about Culver. He's becoming a one-trick pony: fakes a 3 nobody is scared of, and attacks the basket where a brick wall is waiting. You could say almost the same thing of Edwards.


Why are they “standing” at the 3point line??? That’s the problem. Like Rubio and Okogie, these types of players need to be moving (cutting, screening, pick the picker, picket fences,etc). Wake up


It's funny because that's exactly what I'm saying, that both should learn from Beasley and don't just stand around and watch, only to get the ball and do the exact same thing over and over., run against a wall. Wake up? Cheer up.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#25 » by Heimdal » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:45 pm

Dewey wrote:
Heimdal wrote:This game showed why you can't play an all-offense zero-defense 5. Opposing teams get hot and then you see guys having career games on you. See Lonnie Walker IV literally smiling at how easy scoring was in the first quarter.

Vanderbilt and Okogie are crucial. Rubio also played pretty good defense all game long. With these guys on defense you can hide Russell's lack of intensity or Beasley's lapses. With them, even when the opponent scores, the effort it takes wears them out. See Aldridge and Mills: hey had to sweat for every point and they eventually couldn't keep going. The rest of the Spurs weren't even a factor as the game progressed.

Okogie and Vanderbilt should start beside Towns. Def. rating will be sooooo much better with them. Whatever we lose on offense (Russell, Beasley and Towns will still score a lot), we win on defense, opponents not going nuts, rebounding, fastbreaks, etc. Insert Rubio for any of Russell and Beasley, and let Rubio feed Towns.

I'm really worried about Culver. He's becoming a one-trick pony: fakes a 3 nobody is scared of, and attacks the basket where a brick wall is waiting. You could say almost the same thing of Edwards.


Why are they “standing” at the 3point line??? That’s the problem. Like Rubio and Okogie, these types of players need to be moving (cutting, screening, pick the picker, picket fences,etc). Wake up


It's funny because that's exactly what I'm saying, that both should learn from Beasley and don't just stand around and watch, only to get the ball and do the exact same thing over and over, run against a wall. Wake up? Cheer up.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#26 » by DaMplsKid » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:03 pm

wolves_89 wrote:I really want to see the Wolves utilize both Okogie and Vanderbilt as defensive stoppers going forward. Okogie matches up against the best guard on the opposing team and Vanderbilt against the best forward. I'd seriously consider starting both of them since the starting group has enough offense with Russell, Beasley, and KAT. A second unit of Rubio, Edwards, Culver, Hernangomez, and Reid would be pretty solid as well.


I agree with this but having two non offensive players (Vanderbilt/Okogie) on the court could be a deal breaker for the starting line up. I am also ok splitting up our best rebounders mins (Towns, Vanderbilt). However down the stretch when you need stops I would love to see that line up.

I know these guys need time together but Rubio, Edwards, Culver should be a nice bench wing rotation in the future. I think the more time Rubio gets to play with these two the better for everyone. This is another reason I would keep Vanderbilt off the bench to help these guy defensively.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#27 » by UnFadeable21 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:05 pm

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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#28 » by Klomp » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:10 pm

It's starting to become obvious that the mold for what the big forward should be is closer to the Vanderbilt prototype than it is Juancho/Layman, especially if the team is without KAT and if the team has to choose between offense and defense at the position. I think the front office knows this too, which is why you saw the team targeting Jones, Nance and Gordon this past offseason. I would expect to see those talks resume again closer to the deadline.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#29 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:14 pm

jscott wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
jscott wrote:Needed that win. Good to get one without KAT.


It is good to get one without him finally. Trade him for a peanut now that we know it's possible. Resting after 6 or more games off already?

This is a stupid take.


I was trying hard to fit in.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#30 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:20 pm

DaMplsKid wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:I really want to see the Wolves utilize both Okogie and Vanderbilt as defensive stoppers going forward. Okogie matches up against the best guard on the opposing team and Vanderbilt against the best forward. I'd seriously consider starting both of them since the starting group has enough offense with Russell, Beasley, and KAT. A second unit of Rubio, Edwards, Culver, Hernangomez, and Reid would be pretty solid as well.


I agree with this but having two non offensive players (Vanderbilt/Okogie) on the court could be a deal breaker for the starting line up.


I disagree that it would be any kind of problem. It would help DLo Beasley and Towns to be the focus on offense and help to add the two high effort defenders around these specific three offensive specialists. That's been the problem since this season start, trying to get too many involved in the offense on all rotations. Beasley and Dlo both heat up when shooting more and reach levels the rest can't. Towns Needs more offensive involvement than we've seen to date this season. This should work nicely.

The difficult thing remaining is working out who works best together in the bench rotation. Too many with too low of game IQ and even Rubio won't be able to lead them. Don't let Rubio lead and it will be a real mess. But if Beasley/Culver allow Rubio to lead them and let him feed them as the focus of teh offense it might work when Dlo and Beasley aren't in contention for their touches.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#31 » by Calinks » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:11 pm

I'm disappointed in the season but I'm not devastated like some fans. I still believe in the front office and they are analyzing everything. Every game is a data point and they are seeing some of the same problems we are seeing. Yea I think we will get a really good 4 at some point, I think it's a priority but we need an opportunity. I think if you get a good starting 4 on this team, we take a big step forward.

I still think this team can be competitive this season if healthy. Add a good 4 to that and we got a squad we can build off of. I consider this year 2 of our rebuild, probably wont see the playoffs but the goal should be to find our identity and look like a competent, competitive team by season end. Go into next season with a 4 and some roster tweaks and we should be battling for the playoffs.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#32 » by TheZachAttack » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:32 pm

Klomp wrote:It's starting to become obvious that the mold for what the big forward should be is closer to the Vanderbilt prototype than it is Juancho/Layman, especially if the team is without KAT and if the team has to choose between offense and defense at the position. I think the front office knows this too, which is why you saw the team targeting Jones, Nance and Gordon this past offseason. I would expect to see those talks resume again closer to the deadline.


I think that is obviously the ideal from a body type/defensive perspective. I disagree with the high-level thought about that being the Wolves ideal target. If the Vanderbilt could shoot and space the floor that would be the ideal 4. Again, defensively those are all players that offer the ability to provide weak-side rim protection while also being able to tag and switch on the perimeter.

I think it's clear that the Wolves want to have one of those types of players to have in their rotation to use as need, but I don't think it's at all clear that the Wolves are prioritizing finding a 4 that can't shoot and will play the role Vanderbilt can play on offense. In fact, I think it's the opposite. I think Vanderbilt has forced his way into the rotation with his play, and the lack of play of others, in other areas in spite of his lack of offensive fit rather than because of his offense fit. As such, that player cannot be a mold or archetype of what the Wolves are looking to target.

The Wolves clearly want this type of player, but this is not the *target* and by target you are insinuating ideal fit for a Towns front court partner--that's just not at all evident by the Wolves front offices statements and actions.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#33 » by minimus » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:38 pm

Klomp wrote:It's starting to become obvious that the mold for what the big forward should be is closer to the Vanderbilt prototype than it is Juancho/Layman, especially if the team is without KAT and if the team has to choose between offense and defense at the position. I think the front office knows this too, which is why you saw the team targeting Jones, Nance and Gordon this past offseason. I would expect to see those talks resume again closer to the deadline.


I would not say that Jones is a good fit here, he is so limited in offense. Nance and Gordon are good fit for obvious reasons. They are dynamic forwards who can slash, dunk, finish alley-oops pass and shoot threes. One common misconception about "five-out" system is that all five players on the floor must be good three point shooters. Yes, in ideal situation we should play five shooters. However, it should be interpreted as "all five players on the floor must be able to put pressure on the rim, while offense is initiated with all five players out on perimeter". It means "five-out" system also works with mobile rim-runner, such as Vando, Aaron Gordon, Larry Nance. It starts with all five players on perimeter, stretching the floor, but it is equally important to stretch the floor towards the rim, Vando, Gordon, Nance can catch and finish at rim in blink of second, even if they are behind 3pt line. Moreover, Gordon, Nance and Vando can pass and dribble. The worst fit here were Dieng, who cant finish at rim, and cant start dribble without traveling and Taj Gibson who lost mobility and was a black hole in offense.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#34 » by Killboard » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:44 pm

SkyhookinUrMom wrote:DLo & Beasley: 18/39
rest of the team: 16/42

You might win the odd game if your scorers are inspired, but we are not talking Harden and Doncic here. Lazy gameplan game after game. If you want to develop the young guns they need touches and to get involved.


Yeap, that's what happen when you play a bunch of defense first guys like Davis, Rubio, Vando, Okogie, Culver and inexperienced players like Edwards and Naz, and don't have an all-nba caliber type of player like KAT to punish the opposing team with a clear miss match on every posession.
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Re: Post Game Thoughts. Spurs 2. 

Post#35 » by Klomp » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:45 pm

TheZachAttack wrote:
Klomp wrote:It's starting to become obvious that the mold for what the big forward should be is closer to the Vanderbilt prototype than it is Juancho/Layman, especially if the team is without KAT and if the team has to choose between offense and defense at the position. I think the front office knows this too, which is why you saw the team targeting Jones, Nance and Gordon this past offseason. I would expect to see those talks resume again closer to the deadline.


I think that is obviously the ideal from a body type/defensive perspective. I disagree with the high-level thought about that being the Wolves ideal target. If the Vanderbilt could shoot and space the floor that would be the ideal 4. Again, defensively those are all players that offer the ability to provide weak-side rim protection while also being able to tag and switch on the perimeter.

I think it's clear that the Wolves want to have one of those types of players to have in their rotation to use as need, but I don't think it's at all clear that the Wolves are prioritizing finding a 4 that can't shoot and will play the role Vanderbilt can play on offense. In fact, I think it's the opposite. I think Vanderbilt has forced his way into the rotation with his play, and the lack of play of others, in other areas in spite of his lack of offensive fit rather than because of his offense fit. As such, that player cannot be a mold or archetype of what the Wolves are looking to target.

The Wolves clearly want this type of player, but this is not the *target* and by target you are insinuating ideal fit for a Towns front court partner--that's just not at all evident by the Wolves front offices statements and actions.

I didn't say it was the ideal target. I said it's closer to the mold than the offense one is, if you have to choose between offense or defense.
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