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2021 Draft thread

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Baseline81
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#221 » by Baseline81 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 2:39 pm

TheZachAttack wrote:I think that I would rather keep the pick this year for the reason that I think the Wolves, assuming they are healthy next year, are more of like a 10ish pick team versus 1 overall pick team.

My exact argument every time another poster says look to the 2022 draft.
Norseman79 wrote:I can understand that thinking. However, I don't think they're good enough to be what they want to be even if they are healthy. I think it's a poorly constructed roster, I think the key players are injury prone and not good fits, and I do not think they have nearly enough two-way players to actually compete against good teams. The reason why I would rather lose the pic this year and keep it next year is because I actually believe that if they don't blow it up this year they will be next year. That is honestly about how much faith I have and Kat and Dlo. Now if McDaniels or Edwards turn into superstars, then it's obviously a different discussion. That happening however is not super likely, possible but not likely.

You do realize the Wolves have not only competed against but also beat teams likely to play in this year's playoffs - Utah, San Antonio, Portland, Phoenix and New York.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#222 » by Norseman79 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 2:41 pm

Norseman79 wrote:
TheZachAttack wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Which is interesting because multiple sites had DLo as a traceable asset not expense.

My ranking was top 5 players and the position I see them playing. I agree if they plan to keep DLo and Rubio, the Suggs pick is foolish. Honestly, if that is the route they go, I would almost rather lose the pick this year. See what they actually have next year, and then blow it up. But it goes back to what Rosas and Finch plan on doing. For all we know, Rosas was directed to get DLo...he and Finch may not want him at all.


That's fair. I think that D Lo's value league-wide is likely at a low right now, to some degree even unfairly. I think you have to attach an asset to move him, but that assumption might be wrong. I guess it could be possible to move him for a similar "badish" contract to your point.

I think that I would rather keep the pick this year for the reason that I think the Wolves, assuming they are healthy next year, are more of like a 10ish pick team versus 1 overall pick team.


I can understand that thinking. However, I don't think they're good enough to be what they want to be even if they are healthy. I think it's a poorly constructed roster, I think the key players are injury prone and not good fits, and I do not think they have nearly enough two-way players to actually compete against good teams. The reason why I would rather lose the pic this year and keep it next year is because I actually believe that if they don't blow it up this year they will be next year. That is honestly about how much faith I have and Kat and Dlo. Now if McDaniels or Edwards turn into superstars, then it's obviously a different discussion. That happening however is not super likely, possible but not likely.


This is also the reason I would only trade Towns this year if we keep our pick. The reason being the haul of pics and assets we would get for him would set us up for a complete and faster rebuild and roster balance for the next two to three years.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#223 » by Norseman79 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 3:06 pm

Baseline81 wrote:
TheZachAttack wrote:I think that I would rather keep the pick this year for the reason that I think the Wolves, assuming they are healthy next year, are more of like a 10ish pick team versus 1 overall pick team.

My exact argument every time another poster says look to the 2022 draft.
Norseman79 wrote:I can understand that thinking. However, I don't think they're good enough to be what they want to be even if they are healthy. I think it's a poorly constructed roster, I think the key players are injury prone and not good fits, and I do not think they have nearly enough two-way players to actually compete against good teams. The reason why I would rather lose the pic this year and keep it next year is because I actually believe that if they don't blow it up this year they will be next year. That is honestly about how much faith I have and Kat and Dlo. Now if McDaniels or Edwards turn into superstars, then it's obviously a different discussion. That happening however is not super likely, possible but not likely.

You do realize the Wolves have not only competed against but also beat teams likely to play in this year's playoffs - Utah, San Antonio, Portland, Phoenix and New York.


Winning a game is one thing, competing and winning a series is entirely different. We are a trap game for teams. Let's not pretend anything else. Can we win a game against any team in the league, yes...all nba teams can.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#224 » by Baseline81 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 3:07 pm

Norseman79 wrote:Winning a game is one thing, competing and winning a series is entirely different. We are a trap game for teams. Let's not pretend anything else. Can we win a game against any team in the league, yes...all nba teams can.

You didn't say that in your previous post.

Additionally, your response was about another's thought on where the team ends up in the regular season next year. It had nothing to do with series in the playoffs.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#225 » by TheZachAttack » Thu Apr 1, 2021 4:43 pm

Baseline81 wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:Winning a game is one thing, competing and winning a series is entirely different. We are a trap game for teams. Let's not pretend anything else. Can we win a game against any team in the league, yes...all nba teams can.

You didn't say that in your previous post.

Additionally, your response was about another's thought on where the team ends up in the regular season next year. It had nothing to do with series in the playoffs.


I guess my thing too is just centered around the idea that the Wolves adding Mobley, Cunningham, Suggs, or Green wouldn't be helpful if the Wolves were going to blow it up. You put yourself in the best possible position to have success to whatever extent is possible with the current group. If you decide it's not going to work, you maximize whatever value that D Lo and Towns have instead of them being unable to raise the level of a teams play past worst in the league level, and you then rebuild with whatever assets Towns/D Lo fetch (multiple young players/picks/etc) and rebuild around those assets and say Edwards, Cunningham (or whatever top pick), and McDaniels.

That sounds like a much better future than assets for Towns/D Lo, and 10ish pick, Edwards, and McDaniels to me.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#226 » by Jedzz » Thu Apr 1, 2021 5:48 pm

theGreatRC wrote:
Neeva wrote:
Jedzz wrote:They got McDaniels with a late FRP. He's a forward and already in his rookie season he's showing two way useable skills and efforts, and a basketball head on his shoulders. They got him at 25 or 28 or what was it? If they can find players like that, they also had found JMac from G, another guy with a head for the game and ball skills proven his first playing year. They found Nowell in second round... If they can find players like this outside the top 20 of the draft, then why in the world would you keep drafting in the top10 for at all? Because there is zero proof they can make the best choice up there or know how to develop players from those picks.

Showing they could find McDaniels where they did,..that tells me this team was one player choice away from having a team this season to make a playoff run with . One trade of the #1 overall for a starting capable PF would have sent this team to the playoffs this year. They were one move, one single choice away from having a good set of starters and nice developing heady set of players off bench. Instead...we gotta blow the whole thing up now and start over.


Last years draft class was deep there will
be no McDaniels late in the first round this class.
Also every single opponents fanbase thinks Ant will be great except this **** fanbase with people like jeedzz wintolose...


His defensive awareness is atrocious, but he checks all the boxes as a future offensive star in this league. I'm not worried about his shot falling because it is the most trainable skill for a basketball player, but you can't teach his ambidexterity, his physicality and his athleticism at the rim..he looks like a baby Zion when he takes it in

Claims as usual about him learning to do anything different. Do you guys listern to his post game talks?

So he's got the "future offensive star" hints shown, no consistency in shooting %, shot selection, game IQ. And you admit defensive awareness is ... So... Being that I ask you to reviist your complaints about players like 25 year old Dlo and 24 year old Beasley. Offensive players that have developed their offense in their few early seasons so far. No reason to claim they can't do the same to their defense now, just haven't yet. Their offensive production is now more consistent to expect from them in the majority of games. What happens when 4 years from now Edwards is the exact same as he is now and we've spent 4 years waiting for him to get it on defense, game IQ, shooting consistency still? Let's hope it's not the same.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#227 » by Norseman79 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 5:16 pm

Alright folks, let's see your position rankings...we have basically wrapped up the college season and Gleague...so...what ya got? (Positions obviously are a bit subjective, just go with what you see.)

PG - Suggs, Duke, Mitchell, Mann, Nix
SG - Green, Williams, Kispert, Moody, Flannigan
SF - Cunningham, Kuminga J.Johnson, Bagley, Livers
PF - Barnes, Todd, Brown, Wagner, Jackson
C - Mobley, Bassey, Cockburn, Petrusev, Sharpe
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#228 » by KGdaBom » Fri Apr 2, 2021 5:20 pm

Neeva wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Neeva wrote:I aint taking Mobley in top 3. He lacks the aggression to be a dominant big, he won’t retain the same value Cunningham, Suggs and Green will after 3-4 years in the league.

You and your shorter players maintain their value better than taller players bit :lol: :lol: :lol:


Was I was wrong about players taken below wiseman having more value already? it will only get worse for the warriors in the next few seasons.
If Mobley is taken before Jalen Green and Suggs, same thing will happen.

It's irrelevant whether some players taken after Wiseman now in some people's perception have more value. Each player rises or falls based on his own merit.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#229 » by Neeva » Fri Apr 2, 2021 6:28 pm

I don’t see any bigs in this draft who will retain the same value as Jalen Green, Jalen Suggs and Cade Cunningham. I think Rosas drafts for trade value (guards/wings) over fit. I think Rosas feels he can get bigs through trades/free agency. I don’t expect Rosas to draft Mobley/Barnes.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#230 » by m2002brian » Sun Apr 4, 2021 3:12 am

Wow Suggs!
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#231 » by Neeva » Sun Apr 4, 2021 3:14 am

He is a winner but he won’t be an alpha dog like Jalen Green. I think Suggs might fall to 5, if Orlando gets top 4 and chooses Kuminga.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#232 » by jpatrick » Sun Apr 4, 2021 3:21 am

Neeva wrote:He is a winner but he won’t be an alpha dog like Jalen Green. I think Suggs might fall to 5, if Orlando gets top 4 and chooses Kuminga.


Suggs makes so many winning plays. Forget the game winner, that sequence when he blocked the UCLA’s center’s dunk, got the outlet, and threaded the cross court bounce pass was incredible.

I think Cunningham will probably go #1. 2-4 will depend on the team I think. I wouldn’t be shocked if Kuminga falls beyond five. I watched all the Ignite games. He’s athletic and really young but he has to improve so much in so many areas to be effective.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#233 » by Neeva » Sun Apr 4, 2021 3:30 am

Reason I think Orlando can take Kuminga is they have no one at sf/wing. I really hope wolves can get the top pick again and teams who end up 3 or 4 fall in love with Cunningham or Mobley.

One of Jalen Green/Suggs and something extra would be a huge win.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#234 » by Klomp » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:51 pm

From Page 1:
Klomp wrote:There's just something about Jalen Suggs that I'm drawn to. There's a smoothness to his game that not many college prospects have.

Haven't been convinced otherwise yet....
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#235 » by KGdaBom » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:47 pm

m2002brian wrote:Wow Suggs!

I don't watch college ball, but I just YouTubed the play. It was a horrible shot. He completely overshot it and got lucky.
Was it the luck of a winner? I don't know.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#236 » by KGdaBom » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:01 pm

Checking out Tankathon they have the Wolves favorites in order of Cunningham, Suggs, Mobley. Those are the first three selected no matter how the ping pong balls bounce the 100 times I ran the simulation. Wolves are about the only team taking Suggs over Mobley at 2. Cunningham goes first no matter who gets the #1 pick. Then it's Green at 4 and Kuminga at 5.

OOPS. I looked again and they did have one scenario of Green going 3rd and Suggs going 4th.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#237 » by Nick K » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:08 am

Jedzz wrote:
wolfen wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
You don't need a PG, and whoever you draft isn't going to get much time walking it up. Ant will take most of that too, like he already has. If you want another combo guard, trade Ant first. Otherwise go for a position of need or we can start this developing logjam all over again. Ant isn't asking anyone to set him up. He's the setter upper baby. A choice to keep him is a choice to live with that.


Frankly, I don't see the organization keeping DLo around long term. The defensive holes are just too big, especially when you combine him with Beasley and Ant...


I know many of you keep saying that, as if saying it more means anything to me. Just like me telling you it doesn't really means squat to you all the same. But that's beside the point. I don't care about Dlo. I was talking about Ant being here because he's the point guard now whether any of us like it or not. Talking about drafting another point guard is a waste. Ant is going to walk it up. Ant is going to wait under the basket for every ball that drops or wait for Towns to hand it too him to walk it up. Ant is going to decide whether he wants to take a shot while he dribbles for a while and if he decides to pass...then he will. That's what he's shown us, that's what the coach and Towns have shown us they are fine with and that reality already encompasses his whole head. Therefore if you want a three AND d guy, then go get another taller off ball guard or forward. Stop drafting tiny point guards that are going to be sent in the corner to wait for a ball. It won't matter if they are edgy like Beverly, he's still going to watch, not play point guard. They won't have the size for slashing or second chance rebounds they'll need to ever even touch a ball, they will end up just like JMac and Rubio standing around waiing for Ant or Towns to feel like passing. That's all there is anymore. That's just the reality of Rosas choices now. So, Aim for Kawhi size with two way shooting and defense skills already in the bank. That should narrow it down enough to find something useful.

All i know is Dunn was supposed to be a defender and ready to go offense guy. He was neither and too soft to stay on the court.
Culver was supposed to be some kind of all around player and playmaker you could use right away. He was neither and second season, 30 some games in he now has one passable game this year.

So people acting like they can just draft a better answer then a 20PPG proven 25 year old, or a 20 PPG first year starting 24 year old just because they haven't yet shown the defense you want are likely going to get a rude awakening when they ditch these two and draft another allstar comeplete 19-20 yr old Dud. The entire team refuses to play defense. That's now obvious after seeing them all of a sudden play defense against the Nets the other night. All of a sudden they can? Well if this whole team can all of a sudden care enough to play defense then I'm not putting it beyond Dlo and Beasley to also play defense when they have a reason to do so. No, wasted development years aren't really going to push any of your vets to do so on their own. It's on the coaches. Whatever he did to get the team to play defense against the nets...keep that up.

I'm going to laugh my you know what right off if they draft another 6-4 pg and now have two ultra young and dumb developers leading this show for the next 4 years until they finally contract this team for giving the league a bad name.


Some really good stuff in there Jedzz.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#238 » by Nick K » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:24 am

I love Suggs but it would be idiotic to take him unless Dlo is moved. Mobley is perfect fr us. His footwork in the post is elite. He'd be great next to Towns.

Nobody talks about Scottie Barnes as a PF from Fl St. The guy can flat out play.

Cade hurt himself in the tournament. He is so slow and certainly not an alpha. He's fools gold.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#239 » by Neeva » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:57 am

No thanks to Mobley. First of it’s clear he is mostly a center. Look at all the recent centers taken in the first part of the lottery (Bamba, Carter jr, Hayes, Okongwu, Wiseman etc) they are all either busts or worth much less than guards and wings taken behind them. Plus with Mobley’s shy /passive personality it’s a major pass for me.

The pick should be Jalen Green , if he is available if not Jalen Suggs, do not overthink it. Then Rosas can trade Beasley for an actual PF that can fit in with Towns.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread 

Post#240 » by Neeva » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:22 am

Nick K wrote:I love Suggs but it would be idiotic to take him unless Dlo is moved. Mobley is perfect fr us. His footwork in the post is elite. He'd be great next to Towns.

Nobody talks about Scottie Barnes as a PF from Fl St. The guy can flat out play.

Cade hurt himself in the tournament. He is so slow and certainly not an alpha. He's fools gold.


Barnes can’t shoot or hit free throws though:/
I can actually see Rosas not giving up on John Collins. Beasley and??

DLo
Green
Ant
Collins
Towns

Offensively that starting lineup would be pretty incredible at least. Defensively?

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