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Trade Talk (Part Six)

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ChiefKeith91
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1381 » by ChiefKeith91 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:07 am

Wolveswin wrote:Now that the trade deadline has passed...best trade Towns rebuild offer from Wolveswin on draft day:

Wizards:
Westbrook + Bertans + Avdija
FOR
Russell + Wiggins + Hernangomez

Warriors:
Wiggins + Wiseman + Picks (see below)
FOR
Towns + Bertans

Wolves:
Towns + Russell + Hernangomez
FOR
Westbrook (huge buyout terms)
Wiseman
Avdija
2021 Wolves 1st (returned)
2021 Warriors 1st (rights to #13)
2022 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2023 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2026 Warriors 1st (unprotected, two years after Griz owed 1st conveyed)

Wiseman | Reid
McDaniels | Vanderbilt
Avdija | Culver
Edwards | Nowell | Okogie
Rubio | Wolves 2021 (Cunningham or Suggs)
*Beasley ideally traded by adding to Warriors #13 to get Wolves into top 8 OR for best 2022 1st owed they can get.

Besides this being a horrible idea, you can’t trade your FRP 3 years in a row lol. I’m sure 2k wouldn’t even allow that


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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1382 » by Klomp » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:11 am

ChiefKeith91 wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Now that the trade deadline has passed...best trade Towns rebuild offer from Wolveswin on draft day:

Wizards:
Westbrook + Bertans + Avdija
FOR
Russell + Wiggins + Hernangomez

Warriors:
Wiggins + Wiseman + Picks (see below)
FOR
Towns + Bertans

Wolves:
Towns + Russell + Hernangomez
FOR
Westbrook (huge buyout terms)
Wiseman
Avdija
2021 Wolves 1st (returned)
2021 Warriors 1st (rights to #13)
2022 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2023 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2026 Warriors 1st (unprotected, two years after Griz owed 1st conveyed)

Wiseman | Reid
McDaniels | Vanderbilt
Avdija | Culver
Edwards | Nowell | Okogie
Rubio | Wolves 2021 (Cunningham or Suggs)
*Beasley ideally traded by adding to Warriors #13 to get Wolves into top 8 OR for best 2022 1st owed they can get.

Besides this being a horrible idea, you can’t trade your FRP 3 years in a row lol. I’m sure 2k wouldn’t even allow that

This actually is legal. Doing it on draft night (not official until after the draft) frees up the 2022 pick to be dealt no problem, and 2023 is a pick swap so they're not breaking the Stepien rule by losing a pick that year.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1383 » by Jedzz » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:37 am

ChiefKeith91 wrote:
Merc_Porto wrote:
Baseline81 wrote:From today's Star Tribune article:

How is dealing Ed Davis "shaking up" the roster? Davis played 5 and 3 minutes the last two games.


Or even Rubio.
Rubio is already playing off ball when Edwards is out there. With the return of Dlo things are going to get worse for him.

Look at usage of Edwards and especially Dlo. Is crazy high. And we all know that Rubio playing off the ball doesn't make any sense.

I don't get it. The return was to balance the roster and try to increase the value of some guys (Culver, Nowell). I guess we are going to see a 12-man rotation in Rosas mind now.

Wtf is Rosas talking about lol. Just admit you kept Rubio to keep Ant happy. I’m with paying vets to mentor young players (Ex. Haslem) but not at 17 mil a year! It’ll be harder to trade Rubio in the off-season, at least last week Clippers, & Raptors could’ve used him for a postseason push.

Nobody is gonna want him next year for that price with this guard heavy draft.


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I am guessing he didn't feel the offers for Rubio were going to look as good as what he spent to get Rubio, so people would question Rosas on the short stretch we brought him back for and losing value. Doesn't want to let that happen. I also remember warning at the time of the trade he would ultimately end up being the second Pobo/GM to trade Rubio away and that wouldn't sit well with the Rubio faithful. Rosas probably saw him in at least a portion as another asset with a contract that could get things done in the future. Now he's probably heard/seen more about Rubio's followers factor since his return.

On someone's point quoted above about "the return" balancing the roster...I don't see how it balanced anything. I've been saying since the trade for him that it added imbalance, roster minute problems and would hurt the minutes/roles of prior player choices and might hurt Ricky's. Helping to feed players like Culver/Nowell is one thing to look forward to...if playing with them at all. But again how do they all get enough minutes? And why start the season asking all the guards to initiate their own possessions? That's not how Rubio is going to help anyone.

Nothing could have been better for this team than to have corrected the mistakes of the offseason by trading Rubio and Edwards and trying to use them to correct the roster imbalance. Rosas just didn't get the offers he felt he needed to make those moves in a way that makes him look good. I don't see a valid story in how it helps to keep them. it's maybe the same reason they didn't move Culver before the season or during even though he planned on bringing in all these guards. He couldnt get offers that equalled the cost of his decision to trade up to 6th to draft him. I think it's possible he's hoarding and hiding a bit from pulling those triggers and living with what those mistakes look like in return value. Easier to leave them on the team and push it down the road a while.

It was also really clear in the beginning of this season that nobody told ANT to attach himself to Rubio's hip and learn from him. So that little fairytale is also maybe overblown. Only after Towns came back midseason and suggested to Ant that he should accept Rubio and let him help him did we even see Ant even acknowledge him on the court. Kat told us this in his interviews. Maybe they thought Ant would learn how to be a pro just from watching Rubio or something, I don't think it was initially directed much more than that. At the start of the season reality was Ant ignored him and didn't let him lead possessions just like he played with everyone else. We knew from preseason interviews from Beasley, Nowell and others the coaches were asking all of them to extend their responsibilities and take the initiative themselves and we saw it from Culver Edwards, Beasely, Nowell, Okogie, all of them. Hilariously, we saw Rubio, Dlo, JMac getting asked to just making handoffs as soon as walking it up and go stand in the corner. That was the extent of the roles for PGs, at least until Dlo seemed to say to hell with that. But we even heard Finch say thier offense doesn't really need point guards in typical roles. I can't believe they have totally removed the drive/kick style which JMac can be very successful with while he's played. They've turned him into a nonfactor on offense like Rubio most games. Hand off and go stand in the corner. So sad for both of them. We'll see how Dlo fits in when back, if he bends the knee and allows it or what.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1384 » by Wolveswin » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:13 pm

Klomp wrote:
ChiefKeith91 wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Now that the trade deadline has passed...best trade Towns rebuild offer from Wolveswin on draft day:

Wizards:
Westbrook + Bertans + Avdija
FOR
Russell + Wiggins + Hernangomez

Warriors:
Wiggins + Wiseman + Picks (see below)
FOR
Towns + Bertans

Wolves:
Towns + Russell + Hernangomez
FOR
Westbrook (huge buyout terms)
Wiseman
Avdija
2021 Wolves 1st (returned)
2021 Warriors 1st (rights to #13)
2022 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2023 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2026 Warriors 1st (unprotected, two years after Griz owed 1st conveyed)

Wiseman | Reid
McDaniels | Vanderbilt
Avdija | Culver
Edwards | Nowell | Okogie
Rubio | Wolves 2021 (Cunningham or Suggs)
*Beasley ideally traded by adding to Warriors #13 to get Wolves into top 8 OR for best 2022 1st owed they can get.

Besides this being a horrible idea, you can’t trade your FRP 3 years in a row lol. I’m sure 2k wouldn’t even allow that

This actually is legal. Doing it on draft night (not official until after the draft) frees up the 2022 pick to be dealt no problem, and 2023 is a pick swap so they're not breaking the Stepien rule by losing a pick that year.

This trade saves Wolves 10M. For the Westbrook buyout, could they do more year 1 than year two?

For example, he is owed 91M over two years, Wolves pay him 54M 2021/2022 and discounted final payment of 25-30M’ish.

You would think Westbrook to get out of Minnesota rebuild situation and ring chase, he would leave at least 10M behind. If so, 10M saved during trade and 10M saved in buyout + 62M Russell contract outgoing, Wolves actually come out financially similar — but get the Avdija for Hernangomez swap for their troubles (and don’t have to witness Russell or Westbrook infecting their youth rebuild).
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1385 » by NYG » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:16 am

Would Minnesota give up incentive to dump Ricky Rubio outright this summer?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1386 » by Worm Guts » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:08 pm

NYG wrote:Would Minnesota give up incentive to dump Ricky Rubio outright this summer?


I don't think so. He’s an expiring contract at that point.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1387 » by ChiefKeith91 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:14 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
NYG wrote:Would Minnesota give up incentive to dump Ricky Rubio outright this summer?


I don't think so. He’s an expiring contract at that point.

Yeah the only options is to keep him or trade him for other expiring player or picks. Hawks got Lou will and 2 SRP’s for Rondo so I think Rubio is worth a player and 1 SRP, we just have to see which playoff team needs Playmaking.


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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1388 » by Note30 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:09 am

If our team sees all three players this year and they suck **** then we need to make moves. Assuming we don't have our pick this year what can we do?

If the Jazz can't get past the second round this year - any chance we trade KAT for Gobert and picks?

Two 1sts, Azubuike, Niang and Gobert for KAT seems like a decent trade

If the Wizards are committed to Beal this summer then perhaps we could trade Russell, Culver, Juancho for Westbrook and a FRP.

Trade Rubio and one of the Jazz picks for a sign and trade for Duncan Robinson @ 16 million a year

Try to trade Beasley and potentially a second round pick for Marcus Smart

Westbrook (32 - 2 years left)/ Smart (27 - 1 year left try to resign)
Edwards (rookie) /Nowell (rookie)
Robinson (27 - new deal) / Okogie (rookie deal)
McDaniels (rookie deal) / Niang (27 - new deal)
Gobert ( 28- 5 year deal) / Reid

All this plus 2 future 1sts. A fieldable roster with decent vets.

The following year draft a PG to replace Westbrook.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1389 » by Norseman79 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:41 am

Look, I want to blow it up as much as anyone, but you just can't unless you see these guys play. I find it interesting that DLo keeps getting pushed back. It's almost like Rosas is trying to keep him from playing to buy himself more time. You know, gosh, we didn't get to see our full roster this year so we are going to try to add a few pieces and...blah blah blah.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1390 » by Neeva » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:56 am

It’s a tank, it’s obvious. Rosas is a gambling man.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1391 » by ChiefKeith91 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:32 am

Norseman79 wrote:Look, I want to blow it up as much as anyone, but you just can't unless you see these guys play. I find it interesting that DLo keeps getting pushed back. It's almost like Rosas is trying to keep him from playing to buy himself more time. You know, gosh, we didn't get to see our full roster this year so we are going to try to add a few pieces and...blah blah blah.

I think they don’t want to rush him back without a real reason. If their are committed to him you don’t want to risk re-injury and if you want to trad him you def don’t want him to come back to early plus if you keep losing better chance to keep your pick. I really hope Taylor sells the team and Rosas is given til next trade deadline to began turning us in the right direction.


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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1392 » by Slim Tubby » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:08 am

Norseman79 wrote:Look, I want to blow it up as much as anyone, but you just can't unless you see these guys play. I find it interesting that DLo keeps getting pushed back. It's almost like Rosas is trying to keep him from playing to buy himself more time. You know, gosh, we didn't get to see our full roster this year so we are going to try to add a few pieces and...blah blah blah.

Would anyone really be surprised if the team announced Russell had a “setback” with his “injury” and doesn’t play another second the rest of the season? I wouldn’t.


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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1393 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:10 am

Better to let him rest completely and maybe try to recoup some trade value next year. I think itll be tough to trade DLO without incentives.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1394 » by Wolveswin » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:25 am

ChiefKeith91 wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:Look, I want to blow it up as much as anyone, but you just can't unless you see these guys play. I find it interesting that DLo keeps getting pushed back. It's almost like Rosas is trying to keep him from playing to buy himself more time. You know, gosh, we didn't get to see our full roster this year so we are going to try to add a few pieces and...blah blah blah.

I think they don’t want to rush him back without a real reason. If their are committed to him you don’t want to risk re-injury and if you want to trad him you def don’t want him to come back to early plus if you keep losing better chance to keep your pick. I really hope Taylor sells the team and Rosas is given til next trade deadline to began turning us in the right direction.


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More losing is not a better chance at keeping Wolves 1st. They already have the worst record in NBA. And the bottom 3 teams have the exact same odds of keeping their 1st. Wolves are already a bottom feeder.

With that said, maybe Russell back does help secure more losing. He should come back for those purposes.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1395 » by shrink » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:58 am

NYG wrote:Would Minnesota give up incentive to dump Ricky Rubio outright this summer?

I think this is the likely result.

Rubio makes $17.8 mil next season, and MIN is looking like they will be over the lux, even if they don’t use their MLE. Rubio put together a good set of games as a starter, but when Russell comes back, Rosas will likely push him to the bench to watch the DLo-KAT pairing. His production will decline again, and he won’t be worth his contract next year to our team.

MIN should have found a trading partner with some playoff ambition at the deadline, when Rubio’s trade value was higher. They wom’t operate as a lux team, and Ricky seems like a big enough contract to get them under.

I could still see a trade to CHI, to see if he can help unlock LaVine further, like he helped Donovan Mitchell and Devin Booker,
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1396 » by ChiefKeith91 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:11 pm

shrink wrote:
NYG wrote:Would Minnesota give up incentive to dump Ricky Rubio outright this summer?

I think this is the likely result.

Rubio makes $17.8 mil next season, and MIN is looking like they will be over the lux, even if they don’t use their MLE. Rubio put together a good set of games as a starter, but when Russell comes back, Rosas will likely push him to the bench to watch the DLo-KAT pairing. His production will decline again, and he won’t be worth his contract next year to our team.

MIN should have found a trading partner with some playoff ambition at the deadline, when Rubio’s trade value was higher. They wom’t operate as a lux team, and Ricky seems like a big enough contract to get them under.

I could still see a trade to CHI, to see if he can help unlock LaVine further, like he helped Donovan Mitchell and Devin Booker,

I agree 100%. The best time to trade him was before the deadline even if you didn’t get the best offer you trade him to Clippers for a player and those 2 SRP. But Rosas prioritizes Ant’s buddy over what’s best for the team. Keeping him for that sake isn’t helping us or Ant, he needs to know that this is a business and sh*t happens.

Best bet is to see either which playoff needs Playmaking next year or a team with a player who could use him to set them up (Jazz, Suns) and look to move an expiring Rubio.

Possible options:

Raptors loss Lowry and need a PG
Pelicans let Lonzo walk and need PG to set up Ingram and Zion
Bulls to help Lavine and Vuciec


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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1397 » by ChiefKeith91 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 6:09 pm

I'd look to Trade one of our guards this offseason (preferably Rubio) and sign a TJ McConnell to a 5 mil per year deal. His defense and hustle on the second unit is much needed.



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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1398 » by Neeva » Thu Apr 1, 2021 6:26 pm

I still think Rubio will be sent to the Bulls, they will get desperate for a decent pg when they fail to get Lonzo.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1399 » by ClarkeW » Thu Apr 1, 2021 6:59 pm

The fact that OKC has shut Horford down for the year has me thinking about an idea I had a bit before the trade deadline. Namely, acquiring Horford for a package containing Rubio & Culver.

WHY FOR THUNDER
Team is rebuilding and Horford is clearly not in their plans. Culver gives them a wing prospect to take a chance on and Rubio is an expiring contract they may be able to flip for another prospect and/or a second round pick. Could even make it a three way trade with a Raptors/Bulls/Pels type team and ship Rubio directly there with another small asset going to OKC or T-Wolves. If it’s just a straight MIN/OKC trade I could actually see us sending Rubio & Culver for Horford and one of OKC’s many future first rounders.

WHY FOR T-WOLVES
Horford provides stability to PF/backup C position for next year or two. A veteran presence for the locker room that has an existing relationship with KAT. Has two years on his contract but second year is not fully guaranteed. Can be moved as an expiring after one year or if things are still a dumpster fire after two years both he & D’Lo’s contracts are done at the same time and we go full rebuild again with lots of cap space.

Ideally we’d retain our first this year and use it on Mobley in this situation. Mobley could get up to speed and eventually take starting position from Horford sometime during his rookie season. Horford would be a good mentor for Mobley for a year or two as well, not to mention Naz Reid.

A front court consisting of KAT/Horford/Mobley/Reid would be a huge improvement over what we have now. Combine that with D’Lo/ANT/Beasley/McDaniels and we’re one or two bench pieces away from a squad I feel could legitimately compete for a playoff spot.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Six) 

Post#1400 » by shrink » Thu Apr 1, 2021 8:12 pm

I wonder if Horford could just come here and hang out with KAT for the rest of the season?

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