Guards - shooting

[Jedzz]

Averages per 8 game stretch

In first 8 games (2-6 W/L) Two KAT games
Dlo (30mins) took 131 shots (45%) (40% from 3) (5.1 ast) 7 starts
Beasley (31mins) took 118 shots (43%) (32% from 3) (1.9 ast) 8 starts
Edwards (26mins) took 115 shots (40%) (29% from 3) (1.9 ast) 0 starts
J Culver (23mins) took 62 shots (44%) (25% from 3) (0.6 ast) 5 starts
R Rubio (24mins) took 46 shots (39%) (28% from 3) (4.9 ast) 3 starts
Okogie (25mins) took 21 shots (48%) (17% from 3) (1.7 ast) 3 starts
LittleMac (16mins) took 17 shots (41%) (29% from 3) (3.5 ast) 0 starts


Next 8 games (game 9 thru 16) (2-6 W/L) No KAT
Dlo (31mins) - 18.7 FGA (41%) (39% from 3) (6.2 ast 6 starts
Beasley (33mins) - 17.5 FGA (46%) (41% from 3) (2.8 ast) 8 starts
Edwards (24mins) - 11.8 FGA (27%) (25% from 3) (1.4 ast) 0 starts
R Rubio (25mins) - 5.8 FGA (28%) (0% from 3) (7.2 ast) 2 starts
J Culver (19mins) - 6.1 FGA (49%) (27% from 3) (1.3 ast) 2 starts
Okogie (23mins) - 4.1 FGA (41%) (21% from 3) (1.4 ast) 6 starts
LittleMac (19mins) - 6.4 FGA (47%) (44% from 3) (5.0 ast) 0 starts


I can't say I watched all of the next 20 games so I don't plan on breaking those down (yet). These numbers are what I expected to see having seen these games. I do wonder if these numbers are what others expected to see or would admit to seeing.

Added Okogie.

[Jedzz]

Apparently the team didn't like Nowell being left out of this post. They played him.

[TheZachAttack]

One note on Nowell, I'm not sure where to add this. I know Nowell's numbers are inflated by his most recent game, but his per 36 numbers are the following:

20.6 PPG
4.3 RBDs
2.6 ASTs

49% 2 PT FG - 39.2% 3 PT FG (7.2 att) - 84% FT (16.7 total attempts per game - 3.4 FT per game)

Is Nowell similar to Beasley before Beasley got consistent minutes? What I mean by that is that is Nowell a guy who thrives with more consistent touches and minutes and shots and becomes more inconsistent as a shooter in smaller minutes in a smaller less consistent role? Could Wolves fans be in the same position as Nuggets fans with Beasley if they don't prioritize Nowell's development?

[Norseman79]

Hoping they continue with Nowell at backup point guard. If Edwards continues to attack and be aggressive Ant I also hope he stays at the two when Beasley gets back.

[winforlose]

Hoping they continue with Nowell at backup point guard. If Edwards continues to attack and be aggressive Ant I also hope he stays at the two when Beasley gets back.

Nowell really isn’t a PG. The advantage of playing him at PG is getting more size on the floor, but his handle is questionable and his instinct is geared at scoring rather than passing. What we saw was more PG by committee. At the end of the day we should be asking one simple question. Which young players are in the best position to contribute if made the focus of the scheme? Nowell is the easiest answer. He is a consistent deep threat with all the tools to play Beasley style basketball. Getting him open for catch and shoot. Playing P&P and even P&R like we saw with KAT last night. Nowell and Naz should be our lead bench scores, and I think if given support by Finch they will be.

[Jedzz]

One note on Nowell, I'm not sure where to add this. I know Nowell's numbers are inflated by his most recent game, but his per 36 numbers are the following:

20.6 PPG
4.3 RBDs
2.6 ASTs

49% 2 PT FG - 39.2% 3 PT FG (7.2 att) - 84% FT (16.7 total attempts per game - 3.4 FT per game)

Is Nowell similar to Beasley before Beasley got consistent minutes? What I mean by that is that is Nowell a guy who thrives with more consistent touches and minutes and shots and becomes more inconsistent as a shooter in smaller minutes in a smaller less consistent role? Could Wolves fans be in the same position as Nuggets fans with Beasley if they don't prioritize Nowell's development?

I think Beasley has had the better numbers early in career while on smaller, less consistent role. He was getting shots but not minute loads in Denver at times and he brought the shooting anyway. That is one difference. Beasley is also more of a motor like Okogie can be. So that's two differences. Nowell is definately more conservative energy player, a smart basketball player but he does seem to need full game minutes and always has gotten better/hotter shooting in the second half and under more pressure and fully warmed up. But I can see some similarities in numbers getting better the more they both play. That's also pretty common indication of most good shooters. The situations are somewhat close maybe in their team's expectations for them starting lower. Could follow the same path with another team realizing his full potential because his first team kept others infront of them too long.

Both are shooting guards first and foremost. Nowell talk as point guard is just people trying to find him minutes in a logjam. They can do it at times because he's a smart player. But I doubt we ever see even a 6-8 assist game or anything.

[Norseman79]

Folks knocking Nowell as a point guard obviously have differing views on what that should be/look like. Nowell was listed as a PG in college, and at the very least is a combo guard. If you are looking for him to lead the league in assists, yeah, that's probably not going to happen. However, can he bring the ball up and initiate the offense? Yes. Really, after that, what else does he, as a point guard, need to do? Now if you want him to go off script and create for others, etc..., Then yes, he does not seem to be that guy. However, I have seen him get to the rim with his handle, and finish at the rim, (no, he won't be confused with Kyrie's handle or Westbrook's finishing) but he can do that. The key to Nowell, is the combo guard piece that would allow him to play off of the ball as well. So when playing with a guy like Ant or possibly Beasley, he can spot up or cut for open looks.

The bigger question is what to do with DLO, because, honestly, unless his game changes significantly compared to what we have seen, I don't see how this is going to work.

If the Wolves really, and truly want to win this year, then my guess is potentially a DLo trade for a veteran 3 or 4

[TheZachAttack]

One note on Nowell, I'm not sure where to add this. I know Nowell's numbers are inflated by his most recent game, but his per 36 numbers are the following:

20.6 PPG
4.3 RBDs
2.6 ASTs

49% 2 PT FG - 39.2% 3 PT FG (7.2 att) - 84% FT (16.7 total attempts per game - 3.4 FT per game)

Is Nowell similar to Beasley before Beasley got consistent minutes? What I mean by that is that is Nowell a guy who thrives with more consistent touches and minutes and shots and becomes more inconsistent as a shooter in smaller minutes in a smaller less consistent role? Could Wolves fans be in the same position as Nuggets fans with Beasley if they don't prioritize Nowell's development?

I think Beasley has had the better numbers early in career while on smaller, less consistent role. He was getting shots but not minute loads in Denver at times and he brought the shooting anyway. That is one difference. Beasley is also more of a motor like Okogie can be. So that's two differences. Nowell is definately more conservative energy player, a smart basketball player but he does seem to need full game minutes and always has gotten better/hotter shooting in the second half and under more pressure and fully warmed up. But I can see some similarities in numbers getting better the more they both play. That's also pretty common indication of most good shooters. The situations are somewhat close maybe in their team's expectations for them starting lower. Could follow the same path with another team realizing his full potential because his first team kept others infront of them too long.

Both are shooting guards first and foremost. Nowell talk as point guard is just people trying to find him minutes in a logjam. They can do it at times because he's a smart player. But I doubt we ever see even a 6-8 assist game or anything.

Beasley didn’t have better per 36 numbers than Nowell’s current per 36 numbers in Denver.

[Jedzz]

Beasley didn’t have better per 36 numbers than Nowell’s current per 36 numbers in Denver.

I have no interest in arguing with you over whatever cherry pick you want to make on this. I know where he's at, what and when he's been showing and not. Were you here after he was drafted demanding he play on the main team and Culver go to the Gleague at their season start? No, that was me. Were you here fighting back against the constant attempts to beg for Beasley not to be offered a deal from those that instantly hated Beasely after his offseason issue? I'm not sure if you were but I certainly was.

I think what I stated prior is fair and based on research as I've been fighting for both those players to play here all along. I'm thoroughly aquainted with both their stats. I've already made and fought for some of the points your are trying to make now. I projected them before they happened here.

Johnny come lately to the Nowell story as you may be now, don't pick this battle with me. I'm more on your side than you think. But I'll bury you with real details on this if you persist. per36 over his last 5 games is not something I'm interested in now. That's for all of you to finally see.

[winforlose]

Beasley didn’t have better per 36 numbers than Nowell’s current per 36 numbers in Denver.

I have no interest in arguing with you over whatever cherry pick you want to make on this. I know where he's at, what and when he's been showing and not. Were you here after he was drafted demanding he play on the main team and Culver go to the Gleague at their season start? No, that was me. Were you here fighting back against the constant attempts to beg for Beasley not to be offered a deal from those that instantly hated Beasely after his offseason issue? I'm not sure if you were but I certainly was.

I think what I stated prior is fair and based on research as I've been fighting for both those players to play here all along. I'm thoroughly aquainted with both their stats. I've already made and fought for some of the points your are trying to make now. I projected them before they happened here.

Johnny come lately to the Nowell story as you may be now, don't pick this battle with me. I'm more on your side than you think. But I'll bury you with real details on this if you persist. per36 over his last 5 games is not something I'm interested in now. That's for all of you to finally see.

I was and am right there with you Jed. I was calling for Culver to the G and Nowell to get minutes because I saw his G numbers and knew this kid could be a serious threat. Culver’s development was always going to be a process and unfortunately it is being slowed by the Covid situation and injuries. I doubt he will contribute much this season or next. As for Nowell, Finch needs to get him more shot attempts and make him more of a focus on the second unit.

[TheZachAttack]

Beasley didn’t have better per 36 numbers than Nowell’s current per 36 numbers in Denver.

I have no interest in arguing with you over whatever cherry pick you want to make on this. I know where he's at, what and when he's been showing and not. Were you here after he was drafted demanding he play on the main team and Culver go to the Gleague at their season start? No, that was me. Were you here fighting back against the constant attempts to beg for Beasley not to be offered a deal from those that instantly hated Beasely after his offseason issue? I'm not sure if you were but I certainly was.

I think what I stated prior is fair and based on research as I've been fighting for both those players to play here all along. I'm thoroughly aquainted with both their stats. I've already made and fought for some of the points your are trying to make now. I projected them before they happened here.

Johnny come lately to the Nowell story as you may be now, don't pick this battle with me. I'm more on your side than you think. But I'll bury you with real details on this if you persist. per36 over his last 5 games is not something I'm interested in now. That's for all of you to finally see.

I have been a heavy Nowell supporter since he was drafted and have many times called him a steal and eventual big time rotation player for the NBA team. I did not say you weren't on my side an I'm not using per 36 over his last 5 games. Here's a post I made in June of 2019 highlighting an analysts scouting report of Nowell that I found interesting:

Additional notes from Ben Rubin in the comment section:

"Nowell is a player who is seriously underrated. He’s probably the best of this bunch and could potentially be a lot more than a bench player. Pac-12 played in perpetual zone and Nowell doesn’t seek bodies so didn’t get to the FTA a lot which hurts him by metrics, but he was excellent at realizing how to get his shot off in interior ranges, when to pull up and keep distance between himself and his defender, and while he’s not as good a prospect as Ray Allen or Donovan Mitchell, not as big as either nor quite as good and a stratosphere less athletic than Mitchell, I think if we gave him a fair shake, he might profile as a lottery level prospect or close to it."

(Comparing Nowell and Coby White) "They’re different players, with Coby having some more general O control, more seemingly diverse shooting skills and more passing chops, but look from a macro level at Coby White and Jaylen Nowell’s freshman boxscore stats. It’s impossible not to notice they’re nearly identical, then to take it a step farther and also note that Jaylen Nowell is significantly more athletic and a significantly better frame."

(Comparing Nowell to other perimeter players drafted in the 1st round) "Also, pretty sure Nowell is straight up a better prospect than Herro and KPJ, so with where you can get them in the draft, and considering where you can get them in the draft, it’s not close. Think Nowell would’ve been a year or two away from averaging over 20 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 ast and over a steal while shooting 50% from 2P, close to or better than 40% from 3P and 80% from the FT. Basically a Roy, Lillard, George Hill type season."

Here's a post that I made in that same month saying that I think Nowell can develop into a 6th man/Lou Williams type player for the Wolves:

"I like the take. I agree 100% on the thoughts on Nowell. He’s the one guy in the pipeline who really flashes the ability to be a ball handler who can create offense at all 3 levels and shoot off the dribble or also space off ball similar to a lot of the good 6th men."

You can be dismissive and conceited all you want, but you were not the only one to be a fan of Nowell for a long time. I feel perfectly comfortable placing myself squarely in the Nowell's biggest supporters camp and my posting history reflects that.

Nowell's 2020-21 per 36 numbers (age 21 season):

20.7 ppg (49% 2 PT FG - 41% 3 PT FG on 7.5 att/g - 85% FT on 4.1 att/g)
4.5 rbd
2.6 ast
1.4 TO

Beasley's best per 36 numbers for Denver (age 22 season):

17.6 PPG (56% 2 PT FG - 40% 3 PT FG (7.8 att/g) - 82% FT (2 att/g)
3.8 rbd
1.9 ast
1.1 TO

Again, be submissive and flippant all you want... but my comment about Nowell's per 36 numbers being better than Beasley's is simply based on the fact that they are. I don't make any claims past that.

Sorry bud. Class is in session. I know you're used to railroading people on this board, but this time it came back to bite you.

[UnFadeable21]

I’d be open to move Malik Beasley that Nowell has finally translated his G league shooting to NBA.

Ant DLo and Beasley all starting doesn’t and won’t work. Not enough ball for all 3 and horrible defense

[Jedzz]

Nowell's 2020-21 per 36 numbers (age 21 season):

20.7 ppg (49% 2 PT FG - 41% 3 PT FG on 7.5 att/g - 85% FT on 4.1 att/g)
4.5 rbd
2.6 ast
1.4 TO

Beasley's best per 36 numbers for Denver (age 22 season):

17.6 PPG (56% 2 PT FG - 40% 3 PT FG (7.8 att/g) - 82% FT (2 att/g)
3.8 rbd
1.9 ast
1.1 TO

Again, be submissive and flippant all you want... but my comment about Nowell's per 36 numbers being better than Beasley's is simply based on the fact that they are. I don't make any claims past that.

Sorry bud. Class is in session. I know you're used to railroading people on this board, but this time it came back to bite you.

Flippant? Flippant was your worthless one line response about per36 backing your stories and I guess telling me not to interject at all. When here I had agreed with some and yet kindly suggested that I think they are not quite as similar as you were suggesting. I described what I've seen that makes them dissimalar. Not numbers because there is really nothing all that similar about their starts in this league besides neither was handed a large rotation role as a rookie. But of course, you acknowledge absolutely none of those things mentioned in your response. Just a worthless per36 claim. Why even respond to me if you don't want to agree or disagree with what I've pointed out? Per36 wasn't a good basis for your original claims, cherry picking time slots doesn't substantiate them now, and speaks to nothing I said. Are you angry now because I responded less than friendly after your flippant dismiss?

Es Klingt schrecklich, aber dismissive is all you'll get now slinging what you have and are now again. You are doing exactly what I asked you not to if talking to me. You are cherry picking to fit your narrative using per36 and you overlooked the massive difference in 25 games to 81 of the random time sets you chose to focus in on. There is a universe of things telling me not to compare these two this way. The simplest of which is you are using a very small sample set that doesn't match well with the amount of games Beasely was playing. Over a greater set of games regression to a mean occurs. I'm excited for Nowell's chance finally. I don't have a pony in an argument race against him and I don't want you dragging me into one. Especially with junk like this.

If it's a free class you are after...
# You are using a 25 game stretch of this season for Nowell.
# You want us to look at Beasley's 2018-19 season of 81 games.
# You don't think we can find 25 game stretch within Beasley's games up to that point with per36 numbers that compete with this little nugget of time in Nowell's short career? Any decent player has a nice stretch of games somewhere while developing otherwise teams would give up on them.
# I'll let you do the work figuring out the per36, but taking a two minute looksee I'll suggest the 25 consecutive games from Dec 29, 2018 to February 22, 2019. All in "Beasley's Age 22" season as you called it. Whatever that was supposed to match up with. If that stretch doesn't cut it, let me know and I'll quickly seek out 25 others within Beasley's game list.

In the meantime, I'm done talking with anyone trying to pit themselves against me and trying to force me into talking badly about Nowell. Because it betrays the 2500 or whatever posts I've spent suggesting he's capable of exaclty what he's shown lately if the team ever chose to believe in him with real minutes. It's only sad to me because he's now getting this burn for trade highlighting possibilities. I had hoped it would have happened last season but I was let down by his struggle to translate yet in minor minutes per game that evidently were higher than Beasley got in each of his first two seasons. Nowell now has a huge total of 10 whole games of at least 20 minutes in his career. I would sooner argue there is something similar enough to compare Nowell to McDaniels, and Beasley to Okogie, if allowed to speak outside their shooting abiltiies and instead focus on how they play. Which is what I tried to point out that I think actually makes them different types of players.

[Jedzz]

I’d be open to move Malik Beasley that Nowell has finally translated his G league shooting to NBA.

Ant DLo and Beasley all starting doesn’t and won’t work. Not enough ball for all 3 and horrible defense

Yes I agree that there isn't room for all of them. Been saying so since before the draft when I suggested they shouldn't draft, or trade, for a single guard. So yes, trade a few of them please to allow those left to get deserved minutes. I don't really care which ones anymore. Everyone seems to have their favorites but correcting the logjam is the paramount issue.

Dlo, Beasley, JMac, Rubio, Edwards, Nowell, Culver, Okogie...Hagans...across the sea guy...and whoever I haven't heard of yet. Fix this logjam for everyone's sake. There isn't a great defender in the entire bunch save for maybe JMac's ability to 1on1 defend aspect. Only Okogie has really showed us a real attempt to try hard on defense. Culver might actually be the most effective defender guard if you can call him that. Rosas has a giant logjam of guards without high defensive consistency, only a few can shoot well. What is his problem with narrowing this down? It is because he can't settle on which ones can offer enough offense and defense or maybe he's still waiting for a few more to take a leap forward yet? I'm sure most of them feel it's been difficult getting enough play to show who they think they are.

[Klomp]

Dlo, Beasley, JMac, Rubio, Edwards, Nowell, Culver, Okogie...Hagans...across the sea guy...and whoever I haven't heard of yet. Fix this logjam for everyone's sake.

One down, Hagans was dropped about a month ago.

[Jedzz]

Dlo, Beasley, JMac, Rubio, Edwards, Nowell, Culver, Okogie...Hagans...across the sea guy...and whoever I haven't heard of yet. Fix this logjam for everyone's sake.

One down, Hagans was dropped about a month ago.

9 more in the Gleague for him to pull up if he trades any away. That's what I'm next concerned about. Any hot shooters in G team?

[Jedzz]

Folks knocking Nowell as a point guard obviously have differing views on what that should be/look like. Nowell was listed as a PG in college, and at the very least is a combo guard. If you are looking for him to lead the league in assists, yeah, that's probably not going to happen. However, can he bring the ball up and initiate the offense? Yes. Really, after that, what else does he, as a point guard, need to do?

Honestly I think that was the claim of Ryan Saunders and Rosas to start this season who had most of their guards initiating too much this year, and the same faulty reasoning that had them forcing a square Culver into a round hole last year and this year.

That's not to say you can't have a team led by a combo guard. I would guess Rosas was looking for a...> I would say hello to Harden and let him start whenever he wanted to at PG. He's a combo. But if you think it's wise to take a sledgehammer and pound a shooting guard into the Point Guards role and then also at the same time keep Point Guards on the court at all times then I'm going to tell you I think you are wrong. And that's what they have been doing for a couple years now and this year they doubled up or tripled up on doing it. Edwards may one day end up Rosas Harden-lite. But until he plays as smart as Harden or any of these combos can, they are not better off choosing to.

Hey we won a few games lately. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because two starting guards were out. One starting PG and one starting SG, as well as keeping a third out, a PG in JMac, and a 4th guard out in Culver. That's removing 4 guards from the logjam and surprise surprise results start to look different. I know some then want to blame the players out for what was occuring before. But really, it didn't matter all that much who. They just had to get some of these guards that were all told this year to initiate off the court finally so a Point Guard could PG and a SG could Shoot and be a target for a PG.

[winforlose]

Folks knocking Nowell as a point guard obviously have differing views on what that should be/look like. Nowell was listed as a PG in college, and at the very least is a combo guard. If you are looking for him to lead the league in assists, yeah, that's probably not going to happen. However, can he bring the ball up and initiate the offense? Yes. Really, after that, what else does he, as a point guard, need to do?

Honestly I think that was the claim of Ryan Saunders and Rosas to start this season who had most of their guards initiating too much this year, and the same faulty reasoning that had them forcing a square Culver into a round hole last year and this year.

That's not to say you can't have a team led by a combo guard. I would guess Rosas was looking for a...> I would say hello to Harden and let him start whenever he wanted to at PG. He's a combo. But if you think it's wise to take a sledgehammer and pound a shooting guard into the Point Guards role and then also at the same time keep Point Guards on the court at all times then I'm going to tell you I think you are wrong. And that's what they have been doing for a couple years now and this year they doubled up or tripled up on doing it. Edwards may one day end up Rosas Harden-lite. But until he plays as smart as Harden or any of these combos can, they are not better off choosing to.

Hey we won a few games lately. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because two starting guards were out. One starting PG and one starting SG, as well as keeping a third out, a PG in JMac, and a 4th guard out in Culver. That's removing 4 guards from the logjam and surprise surprise results start to look different. I know some then want to blame the players out for what was occuring before. But really, it didn't matter all that much who. They just had to get some of these guards that were all told this year to initiate off the court finally so a Point Guard could PG and a SG could Shoot and be a target for a PG.

Honestly I am a little confused by your point. Nowell is more of a SG than a PG because his game is more about scoring than creating for his teammates. Having ball handlers on the floor isn’t inherently better or worse than non handlers as long as you have one or two guys who can create for others. For example, KAT draws doubles and creates for Layman. Layman being a good ball handler would be helpful, but as long as layman cuts at the right time or hits an open 3, his handle is irrelevant. The biggest difference post break besides Finch’s scheme changes and instructions to individuals players is that Finch is playing size when he can. We are rebounding better with Layman at the 3 or Naz and KAT together, or any other example of our size increasing. Small ball is a cancer that corrupts every aspect of the game. When we don’t rebound we don’t get second chance points. When we don’t rebound they get second chance points, or easy buckets in transition. I could go on, but I want to end with a simple question, could you please clarify your above argument?

[Jedzz]

Folks knocking Nowell as a point guard obviously have differing views on what that should be/look like. Nowell was listed as a PG in college, and at the very least is a combo guard. If you are looking for him to lead the league in assists, yeah, that's probably not going to happen. However, can he bring the ball up and initiate the offense? Yes. Really, after that, what else does he, as a point guard, need to do?

Honestly I think that was the claim of Ryan Saunders and Rosas to start this season who had most of their guards initiating too much this year, and the same faulty reasoning that had them forcing a square Culver into a round hole last year and this year.

That's not to say you can't have a team led by a combo guard. I would guess Rosas was looking for a...> I would say hello to Harden and let him start whenever he wanted to at PG. He's a combo. But if you think it's wise to take a sledgehammer and pound a shooting guard into the Point Guards role and then also at the same time keep Point Guards on the court at all times then I'm going to tell you I think you are wrong. And that's what they have been doing for a couple years now and this year they doubled up or tripled up on doing it. Edwards may one day end up Rosas Harden-lite. But until he plays as smart as Harden or any of these combos can, they are not better off choosing to.

Hey we won a few games lately. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because two starting guards were out. One starting PG and one starting SG, as well as keeping a third out, a PG in JMac, and a 4th guard out in Culver. That's removing 4 guards from the logjam and surprise surprise results start to look different. I know some then want to blame the players out for what was occuring before. But really, it didn't matter all that much who. They just had to get some of these guards that were all told this year to initiate off the court finally so a Point Guard could PG and a SG could Shoot and be a target for a PG.

Honestly I am a little confused by your point. Nowell is more of a SG than a PG because his game is more about scoring than creating for his teammates. Having ball handlers on the floor isn’t inherently better or worse than non handlers as long as you have one or two guys who can create for others. For example, KAT draws doubles and creates for Layman. Layman being a good ball handler would be helpful, but as long as layman cuts at the right time or hits an open 3, his handle is irrelevant. The biggest difference post break besides Finch’s scheme changes and instructions to individuals players is that Finch is playing size when he can. We are rebounding better with Layman at the 3 or Naz and KAT together, or any other example of our size increasing. Small ball is a cancer that corrupts every aspect of the game. When we don’t rebound we don’t get second chance points. When we don’t rebound they get second chance points, or easy buckets in transition. I could go on, but I want to end with a simple question, could you please clarify your above argument?

I'm not sure why you are bringing all these other things into the conversation to be honest. I didn't suggest these other items you bring up aren't true. In fact, I was wanting to discuss the Layman factor of the last many games he's had a larger role again. He's not exactly lighting up scoreboards, but just like last season the team was winning with him bringing the cutting threat you just brought up. Who else brings that? He's also not noticeably special on defense but opponents scored less when he was playing last season. These recent games maybe should be analyzed whether the same is happening on/off again with him or not.

Also, you brought up the use of two bigs or Naz/Kat playing together or Towns and others that Ryan wasn't allowing. No argument man. None. But I guarantee you, for the guard's still playing ability to appear to be having better games and not look like clusterpucks out there, it's because they have slightly lessoned the logjam of straight up overloaded guard usage that was causing our true Points to play off ball too much, play with the wrong players, and allowing players without great ballhandlings skills or decisionmaking skills to initiate too much. Literally, JMac DNP (OUT) and Okogie both out and/or minimized, Culver with a phantom toe thing (OUT), Dlo knee (out), Beasley Suspended (Out). That is 5 Guards pulled out of rotation and heavy use here so far this season for this recent batch of games. Now you don't have Rubio forced to play with Okogie/Culver struggling to make shots...ergo Rubio mounts higher assists, team scores more, etc. Edwards isn't stealing all the onball time from Dlo and JMac and forcing them to stand around and watch. Towns has seen to it to get Edwards to start respecting Rubio (but this is a side thing). Beasley isn't trying to initiate and drive rim so much stealing that control on possessions from the PGs. Culver is not out there trying to initiate or make decisions like early in season that stopped all offensive movement. So 5 guards are out and only one, Nowell, was injected back into this.

I swear, I just laugh when I hear people claiming Nowell would be a better PG than JMac or any true pg that can also shoot. It's just not the case and Nowell's two to three assists a game will prove that. The reality is the team needs his shooting because Beasley and Dlo are out and Edwards is inconsistent, and Towns's shooting has been pretty bad compared to his norm. That's why I wanted Nowell playing last season. That's why if any guards were drafted I wanted Rosas to select killer shooters or nobody. If you can't score with made baskets your team will lose. You always have a chance to win if you have enough trustworthy shooters.

However, Nowell is a bright player and I can't say that in his year 3 or 4 or whatever that he can't end up adding the ability to create more for others at the same time as shagging 6 threes. He could. But I think we all know that his priority this season was figuring out how to hit his threes like we knew he could at all previous levels. That needs to remain his focus for a while before he goes extending his game. Frankly, the team could screw his shooting up if they do something stupid like try to make him a fulltime point right now. That would be very similar to how they have hurt the shooting development of others. Would you admit that is a risk?

[winforlose]

I understand your position better now, thank you. I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it. Take your Rubio and Okogie example, I strongly disagree. Vando is a walking turnover or gets his shot blocked, so when Rubio passes to him he is more likely than before to get a turnover assessed to him then an assist. Also Ant has been taking more and more time with the ball which takes the ball out of Ricky’s hands. It’s not so much whose missing as whose running the show. Finch has changed the way the offense is supposed to work. Running things through KAT has shifted the way teams defend us and created more opportunities for everyone else. I agree with statements like JMAC is a better PG than Nowell because JMAC is more focused on creating for others than himself. Nowell doesn’t do a lot of creating for others, and that’s okay because he is good at creating for himself. He is a prototypical SG who can ball handle well enough to initiate if you don’t have a PG. Overall, when we are healthy and well coached we have the talent to be on the right side of 500. To get to serious home court contenders we need to add to size. With a true center or two watch out.