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Jaden McDaniels' Position

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Primarily, where would you play Jaden McDaniels?

SF
28
78%
PF
8
22%
 
Total votes: 36

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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#41 » by TheZachAttack » Fri Apr 2, 2021 5:01 pm

I am curious to hear better arguments for McDaniels at SF. The Wolves have been well above average defensively in his minutes on the floor mainly as a 4. His mobility guarding bigger wings on the perimeter while also being long enough and mobile enough to provide verticality and rim protection as well as weak-side shot blocking has been huge. Teams also can't create mismatches trying to use 4's to set screens and switch him onto the perimeter like other more traditional 4's.

In addition, he doesn't really have the handle or dribble drive game to really be an impactful 3 offensively. His strengths are much more maximized at the 4 and weaknesses are not as big of a deal. I'm not really sure he can attack 3's off the dribble, but he can beat 4's. It also puts him into the corner more when shooting 3's as well as better conditioned to be a cutter and above the rim option coming from that spot on the floor.

I think a lot of the lack of rebounding comes slightly from frame (which should change over time), but mostly because he's usually the one contesting at the rim. This is evidenced by Towns 17 rebounds. It seems like the most impact he has defensively is when he is using his length and quickness to provide that verticality to stop penetration and again he has the quickness to recover back out to the perimeter compared to other 4 options. I mean the most important thing is not any individual stat numbers, in any case, it's what his impact provides on the floor leading to team outcome. Yes, stats try to quantify what that individual contribution is but I haven't seen any evidence that his lack of rebounding "stats" have done anything to hurt the team.

I also haven't really seen any evidence that his strengths are maximized on either side of the ball at the 3. I'm not saying that I wouldn't play him with a more traditional 4 if the value was there to get one (Collins or maybe Mobley), but I see no reason to not try to develop him as a bigger wing and a 4 unless there is a better option in place.

The reason that "small ball"4's have not been working is not because there isn't a strategy that it can work. It's because we are starting undersized 2's and even 3's at that spot who then don't offer the benefits that a smaller/quicker player should offer offensively from shooting/attacking slower 4's. Jalen has clearly shown that his length is really impactful on the defensive end at the 4 and that he doesn't struggle even against more physical players. He's shown that he can be a hugely impactful defensive player providing rim protection and also is mobile enough to still defend and switch on the perimeter. He's also shown the floor spacing and some potential for other future offensive game development to both pull bigger 4's onto the perimeter (spacing the lane for drivers) or attack more traditional 4's who close out on him.

I guess it's not really clear to me why posters think the "3" is the best spot for Big Mac's skillset or the team. He doesn't provide really anywhere near the advantages on either side of the ball at the 3 compared to the 4. I guess I can see "why" some posters want to pair 2 more traditional bigs with McDaniels at the 3 and go really big--but it just seems like it's a path to clogging the lane offensively. In addition, I'm not really clear on why posters want to go with a more traditional big to go with a more traditional big at the 4. I can understand frustration with playing Okogie's and Layman's at the 4, but McDaniels at the 4 provides all the benefits of the 4 that you are looking for from a traditional 4 while also allowing the Wolves to have a 3rd player on the floor with wing like mobility and switchability and floor spacing offensively.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#42 » by KGdaBom » Fri Apr 2, 2021 5:21 pm

ChiefKeith91 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Edwards is our SF of now and the future. If McDaniels is going to play it will have to be the PF position.

He’s only the SF in certain lineups but that is not his natural position for many reasons (1 being defensive matchups). Either Him or Beas starts and the other is 6th man


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Edwards has the skills to dominate at Sf more than to dominate at SG.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#43 » by KGdaBom » Fri Apr 2, 2021 5:23 pm

karch34 wrote:
ChiefKeith91 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Edwards is our SF of now and the future. If McDaniels is going to play it will have to be the PF position.

He’s only the SF in certain lineups but that is not his natural position for many reasons (1 being defensive matchups). Either Him or Beas starts and the other is 6th man


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I agree. I think ideal lineup is Ant at 2, Jaden at 3, PF not on our roster currently at 4 and Beas off the bench. Doesn't have to be how we close games but gives us better D 2-4 making up for Dlo and Beas short comings. Also helps bench scoring and allows us to keep an offensively limited but defensively competent player in the 8-10 rotation. Also gives KAT, Ant, Beas, and DLo enough shots IMO. Yeah if Jaden can put on muscle that changes things so maybe the PF we pick up is short term hedge in case he cant. That said I like a big SF with his skills out there for what it could do.

Jaden is not a big SF at 200 pounds. Just tall. Wolves want to play small ball. That means Jaden at the PF.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#44 » by TheZachAttack » Fri Apr 2, 2021 5:41 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
karch34 wrote:
ChiefKeith91 wrote:He’s only the SF in certain lineups but that is not his natural position for many reasons (1 being defensive matchups). Either Him or Beas starts and the other is 6th man


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I agree. I think ideal lineup is Ant at 2, Jaden at 3, PF not on our roster currently at 4 and Beas off the bench. Doesn't have to be how we close games but gives us better D 2-4 making up for Dlo and Beas short comings. Also helps bench scoring and allows us to keep an offensively limited but defensively competent player in the 8-10 rotation. Also gives KAT, Ant, Beas, and DLo enough shots IMO. Yeah if Jaden can put on muscle that changes things so maybe the PF we pick up is short term hedge in case he cant. That said I like a big SF with his skills out there for what it could do.

Jaden is not a big SF at 200 pounds. Just tall. Wolves want to play small ball. That means Jaden at the PF.


Jaden has a skinny frame, but very rarely has he looked overmatched playing the 4 even against more physical 4's. His length and competitiveness bothers every 4 he faces. Frame would be an issue if he struggled with physicality, he doesn't and that is one thing that will definitely change. He will fill out his frame.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#45 » by Neeva » Fri Apr 2, 2021 6:16 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
ChiefKeith91 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Edwards is our SF of now and the future. If McDaniels is going to play it will have to be the PF position.

He’s only the SF in certain lineups but that is not his natural position for many reasons (1 being defensive matchups). Either Him or Beas starts and the other is 6th man


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Edwards has the skills to dominate at Sf more than to dominate at SG.


I think we definitely see Edwards at SF if Rosas drafts Jalen Green which I am leaning towards happening. Green replaces Beasley in starting lineup.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#46 » by BlacJacMac » Fri Apr 2, 2021 7:50 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
ChiefKeith91 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Edwards is our SF of now and the future. If McDaniels is going to play it will have to be the PF position.

He’s only the SF in certain lineups but that is not his natural position for many reasons (1 being defensive matchups). Either Him or Beas starts and the other is 6th man


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Edwards has the skills to dominate at Sf more than to dominate at SG.


Edwards has a speed advantage over most SFs. But he has a speed AND size advantage over most SGs.

And if you have Edwards and McDaniels as your wings, one of them is going to have to be defended by the smaller wing on the other team.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#47 » by Jedzz » Fri Apr 2, 2021 7:59 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
ChiefKeith91 wrote:He’s only the SF in certain lineups but that is not his natural position for many reasons (1 being defensive matchups). Either Him or Beas starts and the other is 6th man


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Edwards has the skills to dominate at Sf more than to dominate at SG.


Edwards has a speed advantage over most SFs. But he has a speed AND size advantage over most SGs.

And if you have Edwards and McDaniels as your wings, one of them is going to have to be defended by the smaller wing on the other team.


He's a james harden type point for the next two seasons in my guess. If he learns to do otherwise from there...who knows.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#48 » by BlacJacMac » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:17 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
ChiefKeith91 wrote:He’s only the SF in certain lineups but that is not his natural position for many reasons (1 being defensive matchups). Either Him or Beas starts and the other is 6th man


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Edwards has the skills to dominate at Sf more than to dominate at SG.


Edwards has a speed advantage over most SFs. But he has a speed AND size advantage over most SGs.

And if you have Edwards and McDaniels as your wings, one of them is going to have to be defended by the smaller wing on the other team.


Case in point of Edwards having less of a physical advantage at SF:


jace frederick@JaceFrederick
Anthony Edwards on matching up with Harrison Barnes: "A lot of people say that I'm strong, but he's extremely strong. So having to body up with him being like 6-7, 6-8, it's tougher. But it tells me this offseason that I've got to get in the weight room."
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#49 » by KGdaBom » Tue Apr 6, 2021 8:16 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Edwards has the skills to dominate at Sf more than to dominate at SG.


Edwards has a speed advantage over most SFs. But he has a speed AND size advantage over most SGs.

And if you have Edwards and McDaniels as your wings, one of them is going to have to be defended by the smaller wing on the other team.


Case in point of Edwards having less of a physical advantage at SF:


jace frederick@JaceFrederick
Anthony Edwards on matching up with Harrison Barnes: "A lot of people say that I'm strong, but he's extremely strong. So having to body up with him being like 6-7, 6-8, it's tougher. But it tells me this offseason that I've got to get in the weight room."

Case in point for Edwards have a greater advantage as SF. For size and strength his advantage at SF is less, but for speed and quickness his advantage is greater. Speed and quickness advantage trumps size and strength advantage.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#50 » by BlacJacMac » Tue Apr 6, 2021 11:49 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
Edwards has a speed advantage over most SFs. But he has a speed AND size advantage over most SGs.

And if you have Edwards and McDaniels as your wings, one of them is going to have to be defended by the smaller wing on the other team.


Case in point of Edwards having less of a physical advantage at SF:


jace frederick@JaceFrederick
Anthony Edwards on matching up with Harrison Barnes: "A lot of people say that I'm strong, but he's extremely strong. So having to body up with him being like 6-7, 6-8, it's tougher. But it tells me this offseason that I've got to get in the weight room."

Case in point for Edwards have a greater advantage as SF. For size and strength his advantage at SF is less, but for speed and quickness his advantage is greater. Speed and quickness advantage trumps size and strength advantage.


But he has BOTH against SGs.

He's so much faster, and has so much quicker of a change of direction than most smaller SGs. The term "freak" gets thrown around WAY too often with athletes, but Ant is absolutely the definition of the word.

Should James Harden play SF?
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#51 » by Klomp » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:08 am

BlacJacMac wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Edwards has the skills to dominate at Sf more than to dominate at SG.


Edwards has a speed advantage over most SFs. But he has a speed AND size advantage over most SGs.

And if you have Edwards and McDaniels as your wings, one of them is going to have to be defended by the smaller wing on the other team.


Case in point of Edwards having less of a physical advantage at SF:


jace frederick@JaceFrederick
Anthony Edwards on matching up with Harrison Barnes: "A lot of people say that I'm strong, but he's extremely strong. So having to body up with him being like 6-7, 6-8, it's tougher. But it tells me this offseason that I've got to get in the weight room."

Since leaving GS after the 2015-16 season, Harrison Barnes has played almost 60% of his minutes at PF. Shocking that a PF would have a physical advantage over a SF.....
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#52 » by Klomp » Wed Apr 7, 2021 1:32 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Edwards has the skills to dominate at Sf more than to dominate at SG.


Edwards has a speed advantage over most SFs. But he has a speed AND size advantage over most SGs.

And if you have Edwards and McDaniels as your wings, one of them is going to have to be defended by the smaller wing on the other team.


Case in point of Edwards having less of a physical advantage at SF:


jace frederick@JaceFrederick
Anthony Edwards on matching up with Harrison Barnes: "A lot of people say that I'm strong, but he's extremely strong. So having to body up with him being like 6-7, 6-8, it's tougher. But it tells me this offseason that I've got to get in the weight room."

Sacramento started Buddy Hield at SF.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#53 » by BlacJacMac » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:36 pm

Klomp wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
Edwards has a speed advantage over most SFs. But he has a speed AND size advantage over most SGs.

And if you have Edwards and McDaniels as your wings, one of them is going to have to be defended by the smaller wing on the other team.


Case in point of Edwards having less of a physical advantage at SF:


jace frederick@JaceFrederick
Anthony Edwards on matching up with Harrison Barnes: "A lot of people say that I'm strong, but he's extremely strong. So having to body up with him being like 6-7, 6-8, it's tougher. But it tells me this offseason that I've got to get in the weight room."

Since leaving GS after the 2015-16 season, Harrison Barnes has played almost 60% of his minutes at PF. Shocking that a PF would have a physical advantage over a SF.....


Barnes is 6'8, 225. He's a "small ball PF".

He's typical SF size. I guess I'd prefer that if Ant is going to be a primary scorer for us, that he have as many advantages as he can. But your mileage may vary.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#54 » by KGdaBom » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:44 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
Case in point of Edwards having less of a physical advantage at SF:


jace frederick@JaceFrederick
Anthony Edwards on matching up with Harrison Barnes: "A lot of people say that I'm strong, but he's extremely strong. So having to body up with him being like 6-7, 6-8, it's tougher. But it tells me this offseason that I've got to get in the weight room."

Case in point for Edwards have a greater advantage as SF. For size and strength his advantage at SF is less, but for speed and quickness his advantage is greater. Speed and quickness advantage trumps size and strength advantage.


But he has BOTH against SGs.

He's so much faster, and has so much quicker of a change of direction than most smaller SGs. The term "freak" gets thrown around WAY too often with athletes, but Ant is absolutely the definition of the word.

Should James Harden play SF?

James Harden plays the James Harden position. It is a position unknown to basketball other than him. Maybe Antman should play the Antman position, but for now I believe Ant can do his best dominating at the SF. My opinion.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels' Position 

Post#55 » by wolves_89 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 9:34 pm

I really like the match-ups the Wolves get when McDaniels-Edwards play SF-SG much more than when they play at PF-SF. I believe the Wolves having a second big with size next to Towns gives the team a big improvement in defense and rebounding. My ideal PF would be a Vanderbilt type player, only with a jump shot that opposing teams have to defend.

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