[Krawczynski] Alex Rodriguez and Marc Lore in serious talks to become the next owners of the Minnesota Timberwolves

[shrink]

My level of concern here on a scale of 1-10? Maybe a 2.

Lorre and ARod just paid $1.5 billion for the team. Do I think they’re going to pay another $2 bil to move it, or not move it and RECEIVE their share of the expansion fee?

I think the NBA is expanding, and the two locations for expansion are Seattle and Las Vegas. In fact, expansion helps the Wolves even more, since they might be moved to the Eastern Conference to play with the other Midwest teams.

Finally, MIN has stunk in attendance since Garnett left, but while he was here, the market was highly profitable. It’s around the #12-15 market in the US. The fans turn out, but only for a winning product, since the Twin Cities all four pro sports, MLS, and all the Big Ten sports all competing for eyeballs. The NBA wants to be in Minneapolis AND Seattle, not Minneapolis OR Seattle.

[Cactus Jack]

Oh well I’ll be a fan wherever this team goes.

Not me lol. I'll probably hang on for a year to two, especially if we got the same guys but after that, it's over, I'll be a nomad.

My Wolves fandom ends the very second they announce the team is moving and so would my following of the NBA in totality.

It’s a very ominous sign that Taylor wasn’t honest with the media and the deal was delayed to “iron out” final details. Taylor is a piece of ****. He screwed the fans with his horrific leadership and he’s punching us in the balls on his way out. I sure hope he doesn’t plan on sitting court-side next season because he won’t be enjoying the banter coming his way.


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I'll just reiterate again what I've said previously that Seattle is not in the cards. A-rod & Lore have no connections to the Seattle group whatsoever. Absolutely zero.

I think the chances are fairly low that it gets moved. But again, it won't be Seattle.

If you're worried about potential cities? Vegas would seem to make the most sense.

I'm not as plugged into Vegas for fairly obvious reasons. But if the NBA does indeed plan on adding two new teams via expansion. Then that becomes even less of a worry.


Having gone through relocation myself. I don't blame anyone for sharing those feelings.

When the Sonics left town, I tuned the NBA out completely. It took a few years before I could even entertain the idea of watching an NBA game again.

[Dewey]

Pro sports have a lot of issues right now ... it’s about money, so leave it to the NBA to abandon Mpls ... NBA is desperate and will do virtually anything to jumpstart revenue

[KGdaBom]

My Wolves fandom ends the very second they announce the team is moving and so would my following of the NBA in totality.

It’s a very ominous sign that Taylor wasn’t honest with the media and the deal was delayed to “iron out” final details. Taylor is a piece of ****. He screwed the fans with his horrific leadership and he’s punching us in the balls on his way out. I sure hope he doesn’t plan on sitting court-side next season because he won’t be enjoying the banter coming his way.


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I wouldn't be quite as extreme, but mostly with you Slim.

[Battletrigger]

Well, is how sports are ruled there in USA.

[Krapinsky]

My Wolves fandom ends the very second they announce the team is moving and so would my following of the NBA in totality.

It’s a very ominous sign that Taylor wasn’t honest with the media and the deal was delayed to “iron out” final details. Taylor is a piece of ****. He screwed the fans with his horrific leadership and he’s punching us in the balls on his way out. I sure hope he doesn’t plan on sitting court-side next season because he won’t be enjoying the banter coming his way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think Taylor isn't a lawyer and he made a statement believing it could be written into a contract, but I'm sure his lawyers are telling him that the "no moving the team" restriction on the sale of the team doesn't exactly make sense. Is there any precedent for such a clause?

If the new owners breached that restriction and moved the team, what would be the consequence? What are the damages? Taylor has his $1.5B. What value/consideration, if any, can you realistically assign to the restriction clause? Even if you can write in some liquidated damages provision, i.e. stating moving the team requires them to pay Taylor (or his estate) $100M as a breach, I'm not sure the NBA would sign off on it or that it would enforceable.

[Klomp]

People are panicking over nothing.

[younggunsmn]

You read between the lines of the lawsuit and its Taylor being a scumbag again.

Orbach owns 17%, and has a provision in his agreement that, if the team is sold, allows him the option of forcing the new ownership to buy out his 17% at the same rate they pay Taylor. Smart move because who wants to pay market value for a non-controlling share?
Lore and Steroid boy don't want (don't need for control, maybe can't afford) his 17%.
So Taylor is stringing out the sale for 2-3 years in pieces to try to circumvent the deal he has with Orbach.

Any provision in the contract to keep the team here would be very hard to enforce.
You would likely have to prove damages to the state/city/ownership of Target Center.
If the city put a half billion into an arena, it would have standing to put in force a half billion penalty into the lease should the team move. There has been nowhere near that kind of investment. Thus the penatly for breaking the lease is only 50 million.

Taylor has never been a good owner. Now he's selling the team to one of the all-time scumbags in all of pro sports and screwing one of his partners on the way out the door. Expansion may be the only thing that saves the team from moving. I have a hard time believing A-rod can come up with enough for an equal share, having lost 50+% of his baseball income to taxes (in the years he wasnt playing in Texas ) . It takes a lot more than just the purchase price to run a pro sports team year to year. Most owners only make money on paper primarily from the increased valuation until they start selling off shares.

[KGdaBom]

But they're still gonna move the team

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NOT going to happen.

[KGdaBom]

My Wolves fandom ends the very second they announce the team is moving and so would my following of the NBA in totality.

It’s a very ominous sign that Taylor wasn’t honest with the media and the deal was delayed to “iron out” final details. Taylor is a piece of ****. He screwed the fans with his horrific leadership and he’s punching us in the balls on his way out. I sure hope he doesn’t plan on sitting court-side next season because he won’t be enjoying the banter coming his way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think Taylor isn't a lawyer and he made a statement believing it could be written into a contract, but I'm sure his lawyers are telling him that the "no moving the team" restriction on the sale of the team doesn't exactly make sense. Is there any precedent for such a clause?

If the new owners breached that restriction and moved the team, what would be the consequence? What are the damages? Taylor has his $1.5B. What value/consideration, if any, can you realistically assign to the restriction clause? Even if you can write in some liquidated damages provision, i.e. stating moving the team requires them to pay Taylor (or his estate) $100M as a breach, I'm not sure the NBA would sign off on it or that it would enforceable.

I still have no clue why people think that a no move clause would be unenforceable. If both parties agree to it and it's in the purchase contract it would be simple to enforce it. Just don't allow any home games by the team to be played anywhere other than Minnesota. Contract enforced. Situation resolved.

[jpatrick]

My Wolves fandom ends the very second they announce the team is moving and so would my following of the NBA in totality.

It’s a very ominous sign that Taylor wasn’t honest with the media and the deal was delayed to “iron out” final details. Taylor is a piece of ****. He screwed the fans with his horrific leadership and he’s punching us in the balls on his way out. I sure hope he doesn’t plan on sitting court-side next season because he won’t be enjoying the banter coming his way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think Taylor isn't a lawyer and he made a statement believing it could be written into a contract, but I'm sure his lawyers are telling him that the "no moving the team" restriction on the sale of the team doesn't exactly make sense. Is there any precedent for such a clause?

If the new owners breached that restriction and moved the team, what would be the consequence? What are the damages? Taylor has his $1.5B. What value/consideration, if any, can you realistically assign to the restriction clause? Even if you can write in some liquidated damages provision, i.e. stating moving the team requires them to pay Taylor (or his estate) $100M as a breach, I'm not sure the NBA would sign off on it or that it would enforceable.

I still have no clue why people think that a no move clause would be unenforceable. If both parties agree to it and it's in the purchase contract it would be simple to enforce it. Just don't allow any home games by the team to be played anywhere other than Minnesota. Contract enforced. Situation resolved.

Not my area of law but courts generally don’t like to enforce blanket restrictions on the movement of assets. Instead, they will only allow reasonable damages for the movement of the asset. That’s why these contracts generally have liquidated damages clauses. Eg, if you move, you pay the state 50m, etc.

[KGdaBom]

I think Taylor isn't a lawyer and he made a statement believing it could be written into a contract, but I'm sure his lawyers are telling him that the "no moving the team" restriction on the sale of the team doesn't exactly make sense. Is there any precedent for such a clause?

If the new owners breached that restriction and moved the team, what would be the consequence? What are the damages? Taylor has his $1.5B. What value/consideration, if any, can you realistically assign to the restriction clause? Even if you can write in some liquidated damages provision, i.e. stating moving the team requires them to pay Taylor (or his estate) $100M as a breach, I'm not sure the NBA would sign off on it or that it would enforceable.

I still have no clue why people think that a no move clause would be unenforceable. If both parties agree to it and it's in the purchase contract it would be simple to enforce it. Just don't allow any home games by the team to be played anywhere other than Minnesota. Contract enforced. Situation resolved.

Not my area of law but courts generally don’t like to enforce blanket restrictions on the movement of assets. Instead, they will only allow reasonable damages for the movement of the asset. That’s why these contracts generally have liquidated damages clauses. Eg, if you move, you pay the state 50m, etc.

However, if both parties agreed in writing exactly what would be done to enforce the agreement than the court would enforce the language in said agreement. It isn't rocket science.

[BlacJacMac]

I love blanket statements by people with no understanding of the law.

The big problem is the law is not, in any way, based on common sense. Just because something sounds right to you in your head, doesn't make it legally binding.

The amount of unenforceable clauses in contracts is staggering.

[KGdaBom]

I love blanket statements by people with no understanding of the law.

The big problem is the law is not, in any way, based on common sense. Just because something sounds right to you in your head, doesn't make it legally binding.

The amount of unenforceable clauses in contracts is staggering.

I recognize that the law can be nonsensical at times. I still have no clue why a no move clause can't be agreed to and enforced according to the agreement.

[BlacJacMac]

How do you enforce it?

Do you call in the National Guard to stop the trucks? Do you put a monetary penalty so harsh that it gets thrown out in court as unreasonable?

Once you sell something, its no longer yours, and you are very limited what you can legally force the new owner to do.

Just look to Clay Bennett and the Sonics.

If Lore and ARod want to move them team, only the NBA would be capable of stepping in and stopping them.

If I had to guess, I think Las Vegas and Seattle will be awarded new expansion teams in the next year or two, which would take them out of the running. And then we'll likely see a threat that if the Wolves don't get a new stadium, they'll start looking at other cities.

[KGdaBom]

How do you enforce it?

Do you call in the National Guard to stop the trucks? Do you put a monetary penalty so harsh that it gets thrown out in court as unreasonable?

Once you sell something, its no longer yours, and you are very limited what you can legally force the new owner to do.

Just look to Clay Bennett and the Sonics.

If Lore and ARod want to move them team, only the NBA would be capable of stepping in and stopping them.

If I had to guess, I think Las Vegas and Seattle will be awarded new expansion teams in the next year or two, which would take them out of the running. And then we'll likely see a threat that if the Wolves don't get a new stadium, they'll start looking at other cities.

It's simple to enforce. Yes it would involve the NBA not sanctioning the team playing anywhere else. Also what part about a monetary penalty agreed to by both parties would be unreasonable? There's nothing complicated about enforcing it. However, it appears that in the end there was no anti-move language in the contract so this is moot.

[BlacJacMac]

How do you enforce it?

Do you call in the National Guard to stop the trucks? Do you put a monetary penalty so harsh that it gets thrown out in court as unreasonable?

Once you sell something, its no longer yours, and you are very limited what you can legally force the new owner to do.

Just look to Clay Bennett and the Sonics.

If Lore and ARod want to move them team, only the NBA would be capable of stepping in and stopping them.

If I had to guess, I think Las Vegas and Seattle will be awarded new expansion teams in the next year or two, which would take them out of the running. And then we'll likely see a threat that if the Wolves don't get a new stadium, they'll start looking at other cities.

It's simple to enforce. Yes it would involve the NBA not sanctioning the team playing anywhere else. That's not complicated in any way.

So you want the NBA, as a whole, to also be a signing party in the sale contract?

[BlacJacMac]

The letter of intent signed by Rodriguez and Lore prior to the beginning of negotiations with Taylor did include a commitment to remain in Minnesota, sources said. But that document is not legally binding, and that language did not transfer to the official agreement, according to Orbach’s lawsuit. But Taylor, sources said, views the Target Center lease agreement as pertinent language in the agreement geared toward securing the Wolves and Lynx future in Minnesota. Sources on all sides of these negotiations have told The Athletic that Lore and Rodriguez are committed to the Twin Cities market and that there have never been any discussions about moving the teams.

Lore and Rodriguez have not yet spoken publicly about their intentions with the Timberwolves, but Lore has been posting on social media about investing in a community that has struggled with racial tension since George Floyd was murdered by police last summer. He has already teamed up with Wolves guard Josh Okogie on community initiatives surrounding the shooting death of Daunte Wright in Brooklyn Center and has begun looking for places to live in Minneapolis as part of a plan to reside in the city at least part time as he gets up and running with the franchise.

theathletic.com/2616267/2021/05/27/breaking-down-the-lawsuit-that-has-made-a-mess-of-the-timberwolves-ownership-transfer/

[KGdaBom]

How do you enforce it?

Do you call in the National Guard to stop the trucks? Do you put a monetary penalty so harsh that it gets thrown out in court as unreasonable?

Once you sell something, its no longer yours, and you are very limited what you can legally force the new owner to do.

Just look to Clay Bennett and the Sonics.

If Lore and ARod want to move them team, only the NBA would be capable of stepping in and stopping them.

If I had to guess, I think Las Vegas and Seattle will be awarded new expansion teams in the next year or two, which would take them out of the running. And then we'll likely see a threat that if the Wolves don't get a new stadium, they'll start looking at other cities.

It's simple to enforce. Yes it would involve the NBA not sanctioning the team playing anywhere else. That's not complicated in any way.

So you want the NBA, as a whole, to also be a signing party in the sale contract?

They already are. Any sale of a team in the NBA has to be approved by the NBA.

[KGdaBom]

The letter of intent signed by Rodriguez and Lore prior to the beginning of negotiations with Taylor did include a commitment to remain in Minnesota, sources said. But that document is not legally binding, and that language did not transfer to the official agreement, according to Orbach’s lawsuit. But Taylor, sources said, views the Target Center lease agreement as pertinent language in the agreement geared toward securing the Wolves and Lynx future in Minnesota. Sources on all sides of these negotiations have told The Athletic that Lore and Rodriguez are committed to the Twin Cities market and that there have never been any discussions about moving the teams.

Lore and Rodriguez have not yet spoken publicly about their intentions with the Timberwolves, but Lore has been posting on social media about investing in a community that has struggled with racial tension since George Floyd was murdered by police last summer. He has already teamed up with Wolves guard Josh Okogie on community initiatives surrounding the shooting death of Daunte Wright in Brooklyn Center and has begun looking for places to live in Minneapolis as part of a plan to reside in the city at least part time as he gets up and running with the franchise.

theathletic.com/2616267/2021/05/27/breaking-down-the-lawsuit-that-has-made-a-mess-of-the-timberwolves-ownership-transfer/

Yes I knew this so our debate has been philosophical as there is no anti-move language in the actual sale of the team.