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Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

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FinnTheHuman
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#621 » by FinnTheHuman » Wed Dec 1, 2021 5:29 pm

winforlose wrote:So Blake Griffin just got pulled from the Net’s rotation. He is having a Bad season (capital B) and all his numbers are down. That said, he is cheap, we could get him with our trade exemption, and we could use some size depth. Nets are super high in Lux, would he be worth a second?

P.S I haven’t seen him play, and I would love to hear from someone who has.


He was one of their best defenders, in short spurts. Defensively and rebounding-wise, I think he brings us a lot, because of his size. We could use him as a 4/5 who can rebound and rotate to defend the perimeter a bit. I'm not sure he's about that non-NY/LA life tho.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#622 » by winforlose » Wed Dec 1, 2021 7:36 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
winforlose wrote:So Blake Griffin just got pulled from the Net’s rotation. He is having a Bad season (capital B) and all his numbers are down. That said, he is cheap, we could get him with our trade exemption, and we could use some size depth. Nets are super high in Lux, would he be worth a second?

P.S I haven’t seen him play, and I would love to hear from someone who has.


He was one of their best defenders, in short spurts. Defensively and rebounding-wise, I think he brings us a lot, because of his size. We could use him as a 4/5 who can rebound and rotate to defend the perimeter a bit. I'm not sure he's about that non-NY/LA life tho.


I am thinking we offer to take him either without any comp at all or using a second. He takes princes spot in the rotation, and he is happy to be here because at this point being out of a rotation is a career killer. He isn’t getting younger and his numbers already look bad. A good half to 2/3rds of the season here and he might get a small contract somewhere else. If he stays out of the rotation long enough gets rusty comes back and sucks for the nets he might just be done. He would have to keep settling for one year minimums and that doesn’t do much for him.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#623 » by fattymcgee » Wed Dec 1, 2021 8:02 pm

winforlose wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
winforlose wrote:So Blake Griffin just got pulled from the Net’s rotation. He is having a Bad season (capital B) and all his numbers are down. That said, he is cheap, we could get him with our trade exemption, and we could use some size depth. Nets are super high in Lux, would he be worth a second?

P.S I haven’t seen him play, and I would love to hear from someone who has.


He was one of their best defenders, in short spurts. Defensively and rebounding-wise, I think he brings us a lot, because of his size. We could use him as a 4/5 who can rebound and rotate to defend the perimeter a bit. I'm not sure he's about that non-NY/LA life tho.


I am thinking we offer to take him either without any comp at all or using a second. He takes princes spot in the rotation, and he is happy to be here because at this point being out of a rotation is a career killer. He isn’t getting younger and his numbers already look bad. A good half to 2/3rds of the season here and he might get a small contract somewhere else. If he stays out of the rotation long enough gets rusty comes back and sucks for the nets he might just be done. He would have to keep settling for one year minimums and that doesn’t do much for him.


The problem with that is we go over the luxury tax this year and if you are over the lux tax threshold you pay an extra dollar for dollar tax over the regular luxury tax penalties. They might go over the tax threshold in the future, but it doesn't make sense to do it now. Blake won't make our team that much better and it's best to wait as long as you can before going over the lux tax threshold (which will happen when Ant get's an extension.)
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#624 » by winforlose » Wed Dec 1, 2021 8:07 pm

fattymcgee wrote:
winforlose wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
He was one of their best defenders, in short spurts. Defensively and rebounding-wise, I think he brings us a lot, because of his size. We could use him as a 4/5 who can rebound and rotate to defend the perimeter a bit. I'm not sure he's about that non-NY/LA life tho.


I am thinking we offer to take him either without any comp at all or using a second. He takes princes spot in the rotation, and he is happy to be here because at this point being out of a rotation is a career killer. He isn’t getting younger and his numbers already look bad. A good half to 2/3rds of the season here and he might get a small contract somewhere else. If he stays out of the rotation long enough gets rusty comes back and sucks for the nets he might just be done. He would have to keep settling for one year minimums and that doesn’t do much for him.


The problem with that is we go over the luxury tax this year and if you are over the lux tax threshold you pay an extra dollar for dollar tax over the regular luxury tax penalties. They might go over the tax threshold in the future, but it doesn't make sense to do it now. Blake won't make our team that much better and it's best to wait as long as you can before going over the lux tax threshold (which will happen when Ant get's an extension.)


Kinda true, but not quite. It doesn’t matter if you spend time over the line so long as you end under it. Assuming we can find a way to move someone like Layman or trade for someone like Wood/Turner and take back less than we send out we end under the tax. 2.6 mil won’t break our ability to get back under.

Edit to ask: Isn’t it also true that we don’t end up responsible for the full 2.6 as some of it is already paid by the Nets?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#625 » by shrink » Thu Dec 2, 2021 4:27 am

Robin Lopez ($5 mil expiring on ORL)?

Tristan Thompson ($9.7 expiring) appears to want off the Kings?

Aaron Gordon if DEN decides to gauge back financially?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#626 » by Klomp » Thu Dec 2, 2021 4:39 am

shrink wrote:Aaron Gordon if DEN decides to gauge back financially?

I wondered about this, especially since Britt brought him up as a perfect defensive fit in the new system, but then a quick search revealed to me he's having a big year and I wonder if he might command a Simmons-like return.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#627 » by Mamba4Goat » Thu Dec 2, 2021 5:45 am

The Wolves are in such a weird spot (mostly due to KAT) where with like half of the centers in the league KAT can get them on the baseline and blow past them. This makes the need more of a 3+D 4 off the bench (think Boucher). But then in other cases KAT just isn’t enough as the center and they need a legit non-Vando anchor at the five (think Myles Turner) and to have KAT be more of a 4. Depending on the matchup one looks like way more of a need than the other and it changes game to game almost.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#628 » by winforlose » Thu Dec 2, 2021 5:59 am

Mamba4Goat wrote:The Wolves are in such a weird spot (mostly due to KAT) where with like half of the centers in the league KAT can get them on the baseline and blow past them. This makes the need more of a 3+D 4 off the bench (think Boucher). But then in other cases KAT just isn’t enough as the center and they need a legit non-Vando anchor at the five (think Myles Turner) and to have KAT be more of a 4. Depending on the matchup one looks like way more of a need than the other and it changes game to game almost.


I am gonna edit this because I feel like I did a bad job articulating my position. What I should have said was that I don’t think KAT has ever truly been a 5. He gets a lot fouls trying to guard the bigger stronger 5s because even before the weight loss he lacked the height and muscle to truly guard them when they get physical. He has never truly thrived against physical opponents and seeks the help of the refs to keep the game less physical so he can really work in his comfort zone.

I do agree we need someone who can hit the 3. I strongly believe we must draw bigs out of the paint and we need someone who can create for themselves off the dribble as well as in be able to hit catch and shoot jumpers. I further believe we need someone who can draw similar levels of defensive focus as KAT. Now to be fair KAT is one of if not the best shooting bigs in the history of the NBA. The things he can do off the dribble or with the step back are guard level and that is freaking insane. That said, a big that demands a defender beyond the arc and is good enough off the dribble to prevent press ups is not that rare or unreasonable for us to target. A big that can create their own offense is also not that unreasonable. I truly believe Wood is our best bet, but there are others who can fill our needs.

One thing is certain, whoever we trade for must be able to keep our season alive when KAT misses games. Be it illness or injury, we are simply not equipped to be without him. I believe we will see just how ill equipped we are over the next several games. A legit backup will not get this done. We need a 15 and 10 guy who can drop 20 or 25 on a good night. A legit scorer who can make up for the offense we are not getting from Beasley and Prince but who can still play passable defense. Hard to find and expensive are both words I would use to describe this player, but these criteria are vital.

Edit to include: MUST also be solid on the glass.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#629 » by Klomp » Thu Dec 2, 2021 7:28 pm

Is it time to go back to the well?

A couple years ago, we went to a young, but deep playoff roster and picked off a few guys struggling to find a role in this league. Denver was the team that allowed us to nab Vanderbilt for a bargain, as well as Beasley. They play a similar defensive concept to us as far as I know in terms of bigs involvement in the scheme. They once again have a lot of depth on the interior, and I think could maybe let one go for decent value.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#630 » by winforlose » Thu Dec 2, 2021 7:38 pm

Klomp wrote:Is it time to go back to the well?

A couple years ago, we went to a young, but deep playoff roster and picked off a few guys struggling to find a role in this league. Denver was the team that allowed us to nab Vanderbilt for a bargain, as well as Beasley. They play a similar defensive concept to us as far as I know in terms of bigs involvement in the scheme. They once again have a lot of depth on the interior, and I think could maybe let one go for decent value.


I am wondering about the Wizards. They will soon have Hachimura back and Bryant will follow soon after (sometime this month or next.) With Gafford, Bertrans, Kuzma, Harrell, ect… they have size to spare and room in the rotation. I would love to see if we could maybe get Harrell or Hachimura for a reasonable price.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#631 » by Neeva » Thu Dec 2, 2021 7:49 pm

Klomp wrote:Is it time to go back to the well?

A couple years ago, we went to a young, but deep playoff roster and picked off a few guys struggling to find a role in this league. Denver was the team that allowed us to nab Vanderbilt for a bargain, as well as Beasley. They play a similar defensive concept to us as far as I know in terms of bigs involvement in the scheme. They once again have a lot of depth on the interior, and I think could maybe let one go for decent value.


Atlanta, they wont have room for everyone maybe the wolves can take chances on Jalen Johnson or Okongwu.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#632 » by IceManBK1 » Thu Dec 2, 2021 8:07 pm

trade dlo back to nets for irving...irving will be a lethal duo with towns..he can score in various ways. Most importantly, relently attack the rim and unlike dlo, very efficient at shooting.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#633 » by jscott » Thu Dec 2, 2021 8:51 pm

IceManBK1 wrote:trade dlo back to nets for irving...irving will be a lethal duo with towns..he can score in various ways. Most importantly, relently attack the rim and unlike dlo, very efficient at shooting.

No thanks. I’m not a huge DLo guy but really don’t need a flat earther and vaccine denier on the roster. This team (specifically KAT) has dealt with enough COVID bull.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#634 » by winforlose » Thu Dec 2, 2021 8:53 pm

Gotta ask, what do people think of putting Naz at starting PF and trading for backup 4 and 5. Vando moves to the 3 with Dlo and Ant at 1/2 respectively.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#635 » by jscott » Thu Dec 2, 2021 9:16 pm

winforlose wrote:Gotta ask, what do people think of putting Naz at starting PF and trading for backup 4 and 5. Vando moves to the 3 with Dlo and Ant at 1/2 respectively.

For certain matchups (or if another starter is hurt like Bev is now) then I am for it. I think Naz has earned the right to be considered for a starting role plus he and KAT can clearly share the floor together.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#636 » by Neeva » Thu Dec 2, 2021 9:17 pm

jscott wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:trade dlo back to nets for irving...irving will be a lethal duo with towns..he can score in various ways. Most importantly, relently attack the rim and unlike dlo, very efficient at shooting.

No thanks. I’m not a huge DLo guy but really don’t need a flat earther and vaccine denier on the roster. This team (specifically KAT) has dealt with enough COVID bull.


Agreed, no divas/headcases this probably means no to Hachimura as well.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#637 » by Klomp » Thu Dec 2, 2021 9:24 pm

I believe PJ Washington would be one of the best fits to go next to Towns and Charlotte could use someone like Naz. Unfortunately for us, we'd be filling a need and creating a new one in a swap like that. Is there a work-around?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#638 » by Klomp » Thu Dec 2, 2021 9:44 pm

Klomp wrote:I believe PJ Washington would be one of the best fits to go next to Towns and Charlotte could use someone like Naz. Unfortunately for us, we'd be filling a need and creating a new one in a swap like that. Is there a work-around?

Update: Charlotte board is asking for a 1st, so probably not
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#639 » by shrink » Thu Dec 2, 2021 10:14 pm

Klomp wrote:
Klomp wrote:I believe PJ Washington would be one of the best fits to go next to Towns and Charlotte could use someone like Naz. Unfortunately for us, we'd be filling a need and creating a new one in a swap like that. Is there a work-around?

Update: Charlotte board is asking for a 1st, so probably not

I am starting to adopt a heuristic where you should only trade a 1st to improve your top (1-3/4) starters.

For players with the talent level to only be a borderline starter or high bench player (5-7), you can find those players in free agency for the MLE, and keep your 1st.

I see PJ in the latter category.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#640 » by shrink » Thu Dec 2, 2021 10:19 pm

winforlose wrote:Gotta ask, what do people think of putting Naz at starting PF and trading for backup 4 and 5. Vando moves to the 3 with Dlo and Ant at 1/2 respectively.

I like the concept of going big, but if I heard Dane’s podcast right, the Pacers game was the first time this year that any 5-man group with KAT and Naz ever had a positive net rating.

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