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Rotation for 21-22

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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#61 » by winforlose » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:32 am

Nowell (back spasms,) JMAC (Groin) both questionable for the opener.


Edit to add two things. 1, Beverly is suspended for this game dating back to his conduct in last years playoffs. 2, Vando is not on the injury report, and practiced on Monday without issues. https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/basketball/news/timberwolves-jarred-vanderbilt-off-injury-report/amp/
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#62 » by Krapinsky » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:30 pm

They have to get McD out of the starting line up. Start Vanderbilt at the 4 and Prince at the 3.

Russell / Beverly
Ant / Beasley
Prince / Okogie
Vanderbilt / McDaniels
Towns / Naz
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#63 » by minimus » Fri Nov 5, 2021 5:58 pm

I'd at least consider playing Layman and Nowell over Prince and JMac.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#64 » by minimus » Mon Nov 8, 2021 12:37 pm

I have a question. I watched a few PJ Washington highlights, his skillset reminds me David West: skilled big, solid athlete but not an explosive leaper. Nathan Knight seems to be ready for some minutes, and I wonder whether he can help us against some teams? He is good at rebounding, finishing at rim, he plays PnR well and he runs in transition.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#65 » by winforlose » Mon Nov 8, 2021 3:21 pm

Krapinsky wrote:They have to get McD out of the starting line up. Start Vanderbilt at the 4 and Prince at the 3.

Russell / Beverly
Ant / Beasley
Prince / Okogie
Vanderbilt / McDaniels
Towns / Naz


Better yet

Russell/Beverly
Ant/Beasley
Bolmaro/Okogie
V8/MCD
KAT/Reid

Layman and JMAC are end of bench and literally do not ever get minutes unless we have less than 10 healthy players without them. Your third string is Nowell and Prince is the 12th man. Nowell replaces Dlo with Beverly starting, until he heals from his ankle injury. Having Bolmaro and Ant create for each other could open things up and KAT still tries to compensate for V8ā€™s lack of offense.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#66 » by minimus » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:07 pm

We need to add following dimensions to our current roster.

1) size and defense at PF/C
2) playmaking from wings
3) shooting

Problem is that we need to improve every of these three dimensions without making without making other two worse. Let me explain. For instance, if we trade DLo for Simmons we improve immensely our defense and playmaking, but it will hurt our shooting so much. If we can balance this rotation by making Simmons the only non shooting player on the floor, surrounded by multiple plus shooters it might work, otherwise the whole system again will fail. We traded Rubio and brought here Beverly, yes our PoA defense is much better this year, but at some degree we lack Rubioā€™s decision making thatā€™s why opponent are able to destroy our offensive flow. Beverly is surprisingly good as passer, but I wonder why we donā€™t play more PnRs, DLo was one of the top NBA PnR players back Brooklyn with very high usage rate and success.

Playmaking is another thing that we need, without rim-runner, pick and roll big, we have only one player who can put pressure on the rim - Edwards. Combine this with abysmal shooting from Prince, Beasley, MCD, JMac, Okogie and we have situation when no one outside of KAT, DLo, And can score under pressure. Which makes our offense so predictable. At this point I would try to start Layman, he is decent shooter, slasher, rim-runner and he is by far the best cutter. Iā€™d try KAT-Layman-MCD-Edwards-DLo lineup, and use Nowell more as PnR ball handler.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#67 » by TheProdigy » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:08 pm

I think it's time Nathan Knight starts getting a shot in the rotation over Naz Reid. Reid puts up nice paper stats but if you actually watch the games, you can see how bad our defense and rebounding is when he's on the floor. The advanced stats back up the eye test too. Out of everyone in our rotation, Reid has the worst RAPTOR/WAR stats.

Knight is a much better athlete and he plays with more energy. We would give up a little size, but it's not like Reid plays like a banger anyways.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#68 » by winforlose » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:16 pm

TheProdigy wrote:I think it's time Nathan Knight starts getting a shot in the rotation over Naz Reid. Reid puts up nice paper stats but if you actually watch the games, you can see how bad our defense and rebounding is when he's on the floor. The advanced stats back up the eye test too. Out of everyone in our rotation, Reid has the worst RAPTOR/WAR stats.

Knight is a much better athlete and he plays with more energy. We would give up a little size, but it's not like Reid plays like a banger anyways.


Naz is one of our best 3 point shooters in a season where 3 point shooting is a major issue. Naz is better off the dribble than Knight, and we have no reason to assume Knight is better at either defense or rebounding. Finch would see Knight in practice and there is a reason he is only used in garbage time and when absolutely necessary. If anything I think Naz is struggling because his minutes were reduced this season. Finch plays KAT more than anyone expected (almost like Thibs,) and as a result Naz seems less comfortable in the time he does get. I would play him more at the 4 with KAT but it is hard without another legit option to back up both Naz and KAT in case of foul trouble. If Knight were that option Finch would use Naz more with KAT.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#69 » by TheProdigy » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:40 pm

winforlose wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:I think it's time Nathan Knight starts getting a shot in the rotation over Naz Reid. Reid puts up nice paper stats but if you actually watch the games, you can see how bad our defense and rebounding is when he's on the floor. The advanced stats back up the eye test too. Out of everyone in our rotation, Reid has the worst RAPTOR/WAR stats.

Knight is a much better athlete and he plays with more energy. We would give up a little size, but it's not like Reid plays like a banger anyways.


Naz is one of our best 3 point shooters in a season where 3 point shooting is a major issue. Naz is better off the dribble than Knight, and we have no reason to assume Knight is better at either defense or rebounding. Finch would see Knight in practice and there is a reason he is only used in garbage time and when absolutely necessary. If anything I think Naz is struggling because his minutes were reduced this season. Finch plays KAT more than anyone expected (almost like Thibs,) and as a result Naz seems less comfortable in the time he does get. I would play him more at the 4 with KAT but it is hard without another legit option to back up both Naz and KAT in case of foul trouble. If Knight were that option Finch would use Naz more with KAT.

Naz is only shooting 34.8% from 3 so it's not like he's a major difference maker as a shooter. We already know that Naz is arguably the worst defensive/rebounding center in the league, so why not experiment with Knight in the rotation? If Naz is our worst rotation player, how much worse can it get? Worst case scenario Knight is marginally worse, and it forces Naz to confront his weaknesses while he's on the bench and hopefully improves.

Some posters on this board have lost sight of how important defense and rebounding is from the center position. It's not worth sacrificing those attributes for a league average level 3 point shooter.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#70 » by winforlose » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:12 pm

TheProdigy wrote:
winforlose wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:I think it's time Nathan Knight starts getting a shot in the rotation over Naz Reid. Reid puts up nice paper stats but if you actually watch the games, you can see how bad our defense and rebounding is when he's on the floor. The advanced stats back up the eye test too. Out of everyone in our rotation, Reid has the worst RAPTOR/WAR stats.

Knight is a much better athlete and he plays with more energy. We would give up a little size, but it's not like Reid plays like a banger anyways.


Naz is one of our best 3 point shooters in a season where 3 point shooting is a major issue. Naz is better off the dribble than Knight, and we have no reason to assume Knight is better at either defense or rebounding. Finch would see Knight in practice and there is a reason he is only used in garbage time and when absolutely necessary. If anything I think Naz is struggling because his minutes were reduced this season. Finch plays KAT more than anyone expected (almost like Thibs,) and as a result Naz seems less comfortable in the time he does get. I would play him more at the 4 with KAT but it is hard without another legit option to back up both Naz and KAT in case of foul trouble. If Knight were that option Finch would use Naz more with KAT.

Naz is only shooting 34.8% from 3 so it's not like he's a major difference maker as a shooter. We already know that Naz is arguably the worst defensive/rebounding center in the league, so why not experiment with Knight in the rotation? If Naz is our worst rotation player, how much worse can it get? Worst case scenario Knight is marginally worse, and it forces Naz to confront his weaknesses while he's on the bench and hopefully improves.

Some posters on this board have lost sight of how important defense and rebounding is from the center position. It's not worth sacrificing those attributes for a league average level 3 point shooter.


Nathan Knight was exposed in the Summer League. He couldnā€™t do anything in the last 3 games. Since then he has done nothing meaningful (including in multiple preseason appearances.) He cannot shoot 3s (donā€™t underestimate the value of spacing the floor,) he cannot create his own shot (Naz can and we are very short on that,) and he has shown nothing too suggest he can defend better or rebound better than Naz. Knight is in practice with Naz and obviously isnā€™t impressing there either.

As for Naz being the worst rotation player, I donā€™t know how in the world you came to that opinion but I donā€™t share it. Prince, Beasley, JO, JMAC, MCD and Leo have all contributed less consistently than Naz often with more minutes. Naz has come up huge for us when KAT has been on the bench, and while you say 34.8% isnā€™t that great from 3, he was 37% before he started slumping. That was 2nd best on the team behind KAT. For a team that attempts near the most 3s in the league and hits in the bottom 3rd that is massive. Naz is playing out of position as he is natural 4 and his wall up technique is getting better as well. I said it before and I will say it again, Naz needs more minutes not less. When he gets them he thrives.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#71 » by TheProdigy » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:24 pm

winforlose wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Naz is one of our best 3 point shooters in a season where 3 point shooting is a major issue. Naz is better off the dribble than Knight, and we have no reason to assume Knight is better at either defense or rebounding. Finch would see Knight in practice and there is a reason he is only used in garbage time and when absolutely necessary. If anything I think Naz is struggling because his minutes were reduced this season. Finch plays KAT more than anyone expected (almost like Thibs,) and as a result Naz seems less comfortable in the time he does get. I would play him more at the 4 with KAT but it is hard without another legit option to back up both Naz and KAT in case of foul trouble. If Knight were that option Finch would use Naz more with KAT.

Naz is only shooting 34.8% from 3 so it's not like he's a major difference maker as a shooter. We already know that Naz is arguably the worst defensive/rebounding center in the league, so why not experiment with Knight in the rotation? If Naz is our worst rotation player, how much worse can it get? Worst case scenario Knight is marginally worse, and it forces Naz to confront his weaknesses while he's on the bench and hopefully improves.

Some posters on this board have lost sight of how important defense and rebounding is from the center position. It's not worth sacrificing those attributes for a league average level 3 point shooter.


Nathan Knight was exposed in the Summer League. He couldnā€™t do anything in the last 3 games. Since then he has done nothing meaningful (including in multiple preseason appearances.) He cannot shoot 3s (donā€™t underestimate the value of spacing the floor,) he cannot create his own shot (Naz can and we are very short on that,) and he has shown nothing too suggest he can defend better or rebound better than Naz. Knight is in practice with Naz and obviously isnā€™t impressing there either.

As for Naz being the worst rotation player, I donā€™t know how in the world you came to that opinion but I donā€™t share it. Prince, Beasley, JO, JMAC, MCD and Leo have all contributed less consistently than Naz often with more minutes. Naz has come up huge for us when KAT has been on the bench, and while you say 34.8% isnā€™t that great from 3, he was 37% before he started slumping. That was 2nd best on the team behind KAT. For a team that attempts near the most 3s in the league and hits in the bottom 3rd that is massive. Naz is playing out of position as he is natural 4 and his wall up technique is getting better as well. I said it before and I will say it again, Naz needs more minutes not less. When he gets them he thrives.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sort by Timberwolves players. Naz is the worst among rotation players (i.e. players who are top 10 in minutes played on the team).

Again, if all you're doing is looking at box scores or watching offensive positions only, I can see how you would arrive at that opinion. Naz has two things working against him. 1) even at reduced weight, he has terrible foot speed & agility, and 2) his spacial awareness on defense is horrible.

Naz may have been passable last year in a drop scheme, but he's absolutely lost in our defensive scheme this year. He's almost always 2 steps slow on defensive rotations. I'm at a loss for words how anyone could think his primary position is power forward on any team. He's almost too slow to play center let alone power forward.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#72 » by winforlose » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:34 pm

TheProdigy wrote:
winforlose wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:Naz is only shooting 34.8% from 3 so it's not like he's a major difference maker as a shooter. We already know that Naz is arguably the worst defensive/rebounding center in the league, so why not experiment with Knight in the rotation? If Naz is our worst rotation player, how much worse can it get? Worst case scenario Knight is marginally worse, and it forces Naz to confront his weaknesses while he's on the bench and hopefully improves.

Some posters on this board have lost sight of how important defense and rebounding is from the center position. It's not worth sacrificing those attributes for a league average level 3 point shooter.


Nathan Knight was exposed in the Summer League. He couldnā€™t do anything in the last 3 games. Since then he has done nothing meaningful (including in multiple preseason appearances.) He cannot shoot 3s (donā€™t underestimate the value of spacing the floor,) he cannot create his own shot (Naz can and we are very short on that,) and he has shown nothing too suggest he can defend better or rebound better than Naz. Knight is in practice with Naz and obviously isnā€™t impressing there either.

As for Naz being the worst rotation player, I donā€™t know how in the world you came to that opinion but I donā€™t share it. Prince, Beasley, JO, JMAC, MCD and Leo have all contributed less consistently than Naz often with more minutes. Naz has come up huge for us when KAT has been on the bench, and while you say 34.8% isnā€™t that great from 3, he was 37% before he started slumping. That was 2nd best on the team behind KAT. For a team that attempts near the most 3s in the league and hits in the bottom 3rd that is massive. Naz is playing out of position as he is natural 4 and his wall up technique is getting better as well. I said it before and I will say it again, Naz needs more minutes not less. When he gets them he thrives.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sort by Timberwolves players. Naz is the worst among rotation players (i.e. players who are top 10 in minutes played on the team).

Again, if all you're doing is looking at box scores or watching offensive positions only, I can see how you would arrive at that opinion. Naz has two things working against him. 1) even at reduced weight, he has terrible foot speed & agility, and 2) his spacial awareness on defense is horrible.

Naz may have been passable last year in a drop scheme, but he's absolutely lost in our defensive scheme this year. He's almost always 2 steps slow on defensive rotations. I'm at a loss for words how anyone could think his primary position is power forward on any team. He's almost too slow to play center let alone power forward.


I admit I am not well educated on advanced stats. I donā€™t know how to respond to your numbers because I donā€™t understand how they were arrived at. That said, any discussion of plus minus or net effect on a game has to remember that Naz gets minutes when KAT is out. KAT is our primary scorer and when he is on the floor is he the focus of the defense. Nazā€™s numbers in the face of that will understandably be lower compared to guys who spend some time playing with KAT.

Naz is 6ā€™9 trying to guard Embiid, JV, Jokic, AD, Gobert, and others. His weight is listed at 250 (not sure I believe that, I would guess 240 or less,) but he is just not long enough or strong enough to successfully defend 5s. As for him being too slow to defend 4s we agree to disagree. I think Naz can guard the perimeter, play in zone, and is an improved wall up defender. His rebounding is bad but again he is going up against bigger stronger guys. I would be okay moving Naz for a more established 5, but not benching him for a player who has proven he cannot contribute. Knight is years away from being a rotation player and he has proven that every time he has been given minutes. Worse still, he has the same problems that Naz has without the strengths to offset.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#73 » by TheProdigy » Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:13 pm

winforlose wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Nathan Knight was exposed in the Summer League. He couldnā€™t do anything in the last 3 games. Since then he has done nothing meaningful (including in multiple preseason appearances.) He cannot shoot 3s (donā€™t underestimate the value of spacing the floor,) he cannot create his own shot (Naz can and we are very short on that,) and he has shown nothing too suggest he can defend better or rebound better than Naz. Knight is in practice with Naz and obviously isnā€™t impressing there either.

As for Naz being the worst rotation player, I donā€™t know how in the world you came to that opinion but I donā€™t share it. Prince, Beasley, JO, JMAC, MCD and Leo have all contributed less consistently than Naz often with more minutes. Naz has come up huge for us when KAT has been on the bench, and while you say 34.8% isnā€™t that great from 3, he was 37% before he started slumping. That was 2nd best on the team behind KAT. For a team that attempts near the most 3s in the league and hits in the bottom 3rd that is massive. Naz is playing out of position as he is natural 4 and his wall up technique is getting better as well. I said it before and I will say it again, Naz needs more minutes not less. When he gets them he thrives.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sort by Timberwolves players. Naz is the worst among rotation players (i.e. players who are top 10 in minutes played on the team).

Again, if all you're doing is looking at box scores or watching offensive positions only, I can see how you would arrive at that opinion. Naz has two things working against him. 1) even at reduced weight, he has terrible foot speed & agility, and 2) his spacial awareness on defense is horrible.

Naz may have been passable last year in a drop scheme, but he's absolutely lost in our defensive scheme this year. He's almost always 2 steps slow on defensive rotations. I'm at a loss for words how anyone could think his primary position is power forward on any team. He's almost too slow to play center let alone power forward.


I admit I am not well educated on advanced stats. I donā€™t know how to respond to your numbers because I donā€™t understand how they were arrived at. That said, any discussion of plus minus or net effect on a game has to remember that Naz gets minutes when KAT is out. KAT is our primary scorer and when he is on the floor is he the focus of the defense. Nazā€™s numbers in the face of that will understandably be lower compared to guys who spend some time playing with KAT.

Naz is 6ā€™9 trying to guard Embiid, JV, Jokic, AD, Gobert, and others. His weight is listed at 250 (not sure I believe that, I would guess 240 or less,) but he is just not long enough or strong enough to successfully defend 5s. As for him being too slow to defend 4s we agree to disagree. I think Naz can guard the perimeter, play in zone, and is an improved wall up defender. His rebounding is bad but again he is going up against bigger stronger guys. I would be okay moving Naz for a more established 5, but not benching him for a player who has proven he cannot contribute. Knight is years away from being a rotation player and he has proven that every time he has been given minutes. Worse still, he has the same problems that Naz has without the strengths to offset.

I'm not ready to write off Knight for 3 games in the summer league. The truth is that we have no idea how he would look in actual rotation minutes. It could be ugly, but it's already been ugly with Naz. By the way, I'm not convinced Knight can't develop into a good shooter. Small sample size but he's shot about 80% from the line in the NBA. He's played one game in the g league and he shot 4/9 from 3.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#74 » by winforlose » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:13 pm

TheProdigy wrote:
winforlose wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sort by Timberwolves players. Naz is the worst among rotation players (i.e. players who are top 10 in minutes played on the team).

Again, if all you're doing is looking at box scores or watching offensive positions only, I can see how you would arrive at that opinion. Naz has two things working against him. 1) even at reduced weight, he has terrible foot speed & agility, and 2) his spacial awareness on defense is horrible.

Naz may have been passable last year in a drop scheme, but he's absolutely lost in our defensive scheme this year. He's almost always 2 steps slow on defensive rotations. I'm at a loss for words how anyone could think his primary position is power forward on any team. He's almost too slow to play center let alone power forward.


I admit I am not well educated on advanced stats. I donā€™t know how to respond to your numbers because I donā€™t understand how they were arrived at. That said, any discussion of plus minus or net effect on a game has to remember that Naz gets minutes when KAT is out. KAT is our primary scorer and when he is on the floor is he the focus of the defense. Nazā€™s numbers in the face of that will understandably be lower compared to guys who spend some time playing with KAT.

Naz is 6ā€™9 trying to guard Embiid, JV, Jokic, AD, Gobert, and others. His weight is listed at 250 (not sure I believe that, I would guess 240 or less,) but he is just not long enough or strong enough to successfully defend 5s. As for him being too slow to defend 4s we agree to disagree. I think Naz can guard the perimeter, play in zone, and is an improved wall up defender. His rebounding is bad but again he is going up against bigger stronger guys. I would be okay moving Naz for a more established 5, but not benching him for a player who has proven he cannot contribute. Knight is years away from being a rotation player and he has proven that every time he has been given minutes. Worse still, he has the same problems that Naz has without the strengths to offset.

I'm not ready to write off Knight for 3 games in the summer league. The truth is that we have no idea how he would look in actual rotation minutes. It could be ugly, but it's already been ugly with Naz. By the way, I'm not convinced Knight can't develop into a good shooter. Small sample size but he's shot about 80% from the line in the NBA. He's played one game in the g league and he shot 4/9 from 3.


The way I see it, Finch has more info than anyone. Not only does he advanced stat guys and staff who can break down video to show only specific players, but he also sees these guys in practice and has assistant coaches who work with them. All of this tells him that Knight is 3rd string and Naz is 2nd string. What you are talking about is benching a slumping player who has a history of doing good work for you in favor of a far inferior player who has done nothing to earn a promotion. Doing so not only adds variables to the second unit disrupting chemistry, but it also takes a team that is already struggling to win (and has two major losing streaks,) and sends a message that we have given up. You donā€™t play G league guys in place of starter level talent unless you care more about development than winning. Naz has held his own as a starter how many times now. He is still averaging 9 points a game whereas Knight probably gets you half that if your lucky. Knight should go back to the G and prove himself more than one game before we talk about him entering the rotation.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#75 » by Klomp » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:30 pm

TheProdigy wrote:I think it's time Nathan Knight starts getting a shot in the rotation over Naz Reid. Reid puts up nice paper stats but if you actually watch the games, you can see how bad our defense and rebounding is when he's on the floor. The advanced stats back up the eye test too. Out of everyone in our rotation, Reid has the worst RAPTOR/WAR stats.

This is why I initially was so in favor of bringing Vanderbilt off the bench coming into the season. Vanderbilt covers basically all of Reid's weaknesses.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#76 » by minimus » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:35 pm

TheProdigy wrote:
winforlose wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:I think it's time Nathan Knight starts getting a shot in the rotation over Naz Reid. Reid puts up nice paper stats but if you actually watch the games, you can see how bad our defense and rebounding is when he's on the floor. The advanced stats back up the eye test too. Out of everyone in our rotation, Reid has the worst RAPTOR/WAR stats.

Knight is a much better athlete and he plays with more energy. We would give up a little size, but it's not like Reid plays like a banger anyways.


Naz is one of our best 3 point shooters in a season where 3 point shooting is a major issue. Naz is better off the dribble than Knight, and we have no reason to assume Knight is better at either defense or rebounding. Finch would see Knight in practice and there is a reason he is only used in garbage time and when absolutely necessary. If anything I think Naz is struggling because his minutes were reduced this season. Finch plays KAT more than anyone expected (almost like Thibs,) and as a result Naz seems less comfortable in the time he does get. I would play him more at the 4 with KAT but it is hard without another legit option to back up both Naz and KAT in case of foul trouble. If Knight were that option Finch would use Naz more with KAT.

Naz is only shooting 34.8% from 3 so it's not like he's a major difference maker as a shooter. We already know that Naz is arguably the worst defensive/rebounding center in the league, so why not experiment with Knight in the rotation? If Naz is our worst rotation player, how much worse can it get? Worst case scenario Knight is marginally worse, and it forces Naz to confront his weaknesses while he's on the bench and hopefully improves.

Some posters on this board have lost sight of how important defense and rebounding is from the center position. It's not worth sacrificing those attributes for a league average level 3 point shooter.

I agree, that Naz 3pt shot is not his strength. His strength is versatility in offense, while his footwork in defense left a lot to be desired, in offense he is literally dancing around many backup bigs. He has good hands, mobility, quickness and slashing/finishing ability. The problem is that he has similar to Towns issues: poor defensive awareness, bad rebounding technique. I don't agree that he is the worst player in rotation, for instance, his PnRs with DLo is miles better than KAT-DLo PnRs. He outperforms his contract by a lot, so I don't see any urgency to replace him as backup C. However, I don't see him at PF/C with KAT. It might work for short stretches for a few matchups during regular season, but it is not a solution.

Regarding Knight, I agree with you, that he has a lot of potential. I particularly like his natural aggressiveness, physicality. It is just different from Towns and Reid. I also think that this could make him better PF next to Towns than Reid. He rebounds better, he fights for position better. I think we should lock him to Hinkie deal, once we have cap space. If create some room before deadline, reworking his deal would be one of my priorities.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#77 » by Klomp » Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:33 pm

minimus wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Naz is one of our best 3 point shooters in a season where 3 point shooting is a major issue. Naz is better off the dribble than Knight, and we have no reason to assume Knight is better at either defense or rebounding. Finch would see Knight in practice and there is a reason he is only used in garbage time and when absolutely necessary. If anything I think Naz is struggling because his minutes were reduced this season. Finch plays KAT more than anyone expected (almost like Thibs,) and as a result Naz seems less comfortable in the time he does get. I would play him more at the 4 with KAT but it is hard without another legit option to back up both Naz and KAT in case of foul trouble. If Knight were that option Finch would use Naz more with KAT.

Naz is only shooting 34.8% from 3 so it's not like he's a major difference maker as a shooter. We already know that Naz is arguably the worst defensive/rebounding center in the league, so why not experiment with Knight in the rotation? If Naz is our worst rotation player, how much worse can it get? Worst case scenario Knight is marginally worse, and it forces Naz to confront his weaknesses while he's on the bench and hopefully improves.

Some posters on this board have lost sight of how important defense and rebounding is from the center position. It's not worth sacrificing those attributes for a league average level 3 point shooter.

I agree, that Naz 3pt shot is not his strength. His strength is versatility in offense, while his footwork in defense left a lot to be desired, in offense he is literally dancing around many backup bigs. He has good hands, mobility, quickness and slashing/finishing ability. The problem is that he has similar to Towns issues: poor defensive awareness, bad rebounding technique. I don't agree that he is the worst player in rotation, for instance, his PnRs with DLo is miles better than KAT-DLo PnRs. He outperforms his contract by a lot, so I don't see any urgency to replace him as backup C. However, I don't see him at PF/C with KAT. It might work for short stretches for a few matchups during regular season, but it is not a solution.

Regarding Knight, I agree with you, that he has a lot of potential. I particularly like his natural aggressiveness, physicality. It is just different from Towns and Reid. I also think that this could make him better PF next to Towns than Reid. He rebounds better, he fights for position better. I think we should lock him to Hinkie deal, once we have cap space. If create some room before deadline, reworking his deal would be one of my priorities.

Last offseason, I posted often about trading Naz midseason and sliding in Knight, much in the same way we dealt the experienced Dieng to make way for Reid a few years ago. I still think that's possible. However, I should add that we are in a different place as a franchise than we were back then. We're trending up, not down. Maybe a youth movement isn't the way to go. Then again, Knight is actually two years older than Reid so we wouldn't be getting younger.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#78 » by minimus » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:10 pm

Klomp wrote:Last offseason, I posted often about trading Naz midseason and sliding in Knight, much in the same way we dealt the experienced Dieng to make way for Reid a few years ago. I still think that's possible. However, I should add that we are in a different place as a franchise than we were back then. We're trending up, not down. Maybe a youth movement isn't the way to go. Then again, Knight is actually two years older than Reid so we wouldn't be getting younger.


I am a bit worried about Reid's contract extension. It seems like Rosas was a tough negotiator with RFA agents, but at the end of the day even if he is not here, Reid, Nowell, Vando and JMac deals are team-friendly. Hopefully Gupta can continue to improve, and assemble this roster without overpaying.
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#79 » by Danimals » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:35 pm

We should trade Reid. It wonā€™t be worth it for us to pay him after his current contract. So trade him now when he has value. Then we can get a big, defensive, rebounding center to play 15 mins a night behind Kat. And instead of hoping for a unicorn 4 who can defend, rebound, and shoot threes to cover Reidā€™s weaknesses, we can get a combo forward to add scoring and playmaking off the bench. This is a much easier type of player to find.
Steph Curryā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”Ricky
Michael Jordanā€”ā€”ā€”ANT
Lebron Jamesā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”McDaniels
Kevin Garnettā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”Love
Nikola Jokicā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”KAT
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Re: Rotation for 21-22 

Post#80 » by Klomp » Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:57 pm

Here's another thought that I know shrink will enjoy...

Would he gain more value on the trade market if he were extended on a below-market contract than he does now entering restricted free agency? What would that contract look like? 3/30? 4/36?

Naz Reid seems to like being here. Remember, as an undrafted free agent, he picked US to sign a 2-way with when we had a couple of bigs including our franchise player in front of him. And oftentimes, players feel a sense of loyalty to the team that gave them a chance.

Haters will say they don't want him here another year or two. But two years from now, he'll still be a 24-year old big man locked in on a value deal with an offensive skillset that plays well in today's game.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.

Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment

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