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Beverly or Rubio

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Battletrigger
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Re: Beverly or Rubio 

Post#21 » by Battletrigger » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:28 pm

Domejandro wrote:
Battletrigger wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Ricky Rubio is a better player and it is likely that we would have had a similar defensive turn around with him (the biggest changes are primarily because Coach Finch had a full off-season to implement his game plan). That said, I think Patrick Beverly has been perfect to give the team a necessary edge to their play, and he is a solid off-ball player, which is good on this squad.


That's only an hypothesis but the fact is that Rubio has played seven seasons in MN and never haven't shown the leadership, the defensive sharp, the consistency or the shot threat that Pat has shown.

I know that Rubio is a fav of many fans but he is not a leader, he cannot carry you to your best, when things come down he complains and gets depressed.

For me, I don't see where Rubio is a better player taking into account that we have had the Rubio prime years and Pat is 33.

Every young team that Ricky Rubio has gone to since leaving Minnesota has massively improved with him, and he is continually credited as a locker room leader. From Utah, to Phoenix, to Cleveland, Ricky has been a well-respected team leader; one injury filled season from the worst team in NBA history doesn't change that. Ricky Rubio has also been a better defensive player than Patrick Beverly, throughout his career.

I am very content with Patrick Beverly because I think the fit is better (I would argue personality wise Minnesota needed someone like Patrick Beverly more), but there isn't any need to underrate Ricky Rubio because of it.


As I said, Rubio was here 7 seasons, not just one and maybe we are the worst NBA teams thanks to Rubio too.

Many of you remember Rubio for his performance in other teams, but I perfectly remember the missed alone layups, many airballs the 4 vs 5 offense because he couldn't score from deep, midrange or under the basket in his first stint.

And I want to point one Stat, teams usually are better the year after Rubio leaves.
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Re: Beverly or Rubio 

Post#22 » by Klomp » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:41 pm

shrink wrote:I think they are comparably talented, with Rubio a much better passer, and Beverley a better defender. I also think that without Rubio last year, Ant would not be nearly as far along in his development.

That said, Beverley has impacted, not just Ant, but the whole team, getting them all to try harder on the defensive end. Dane Moore pointed out that the three-man combination of KAT-DLO-Ant are like +13, because of their defense. However, half those three-man minutes are with Beverley as the fourth, and then they are +23. When he’s not on the floor, they are like 0.

MIN is winning now with defense - they did not win with Ricky’s passing, so I will begrudgingly vote Beverley.

I think this is a great way to put it.

Rubio was great for Edwards last year. Beverley is great for the entire franchise.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Beverly or Rubio 

Post#23 » by Domejandro » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:11 pm

Battletrigger wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
Battletrigger wrote:
That's only an hypothesis but the fact is that Rubio has played seven seasons in MN and never haven't shown the leadership, the defensive sharp, the consistency or the shot threat that Pat has shown.

I know that Rubio is a fav of many fans but he is not a leader, he cannot carry you to your best, when things come down he complains and gets depressed.

For me, I don't see where Rubio is a better player taking into account that we have had the Rubio prime years and Pat is 33.

Every young team that Ricky Rubio has gone to since leaving Minnesota has massively improved with him, and he is continually credited as a locker room leader. From Utah, to Phoenix, to Cleveland, Ricky has been a well-respected team leader; one injury filled season from the worst team in NBA history doesn't change that. Ricky Rubio has also been a better defensive player than Patrick Beverly, throughout his career.

I am very content with Patrick Beverly because I think the fit is better (I would argue personality wise Minnesota needed someone like Patrick Beverly more), but there isn't any need to underrate Ricky Rubio because of it.


As I said, Rubio was here 7 seasons, not just one and maybe we are the worst NBA teams thanks to Rubio too.

Many of you remember Rubio for his performance in other teams, but I perfectly remember the missed alone layups, many airballs the 4 vs 5 offense because he couldn't score from deep, midrange or under the basket in his first stint.

And I want to point one Stat, teams usually are better the year after Rubio leaves.

1. Minnesota was not the reason for the Minnesota Timberwolves being hot garbage, no impact stats would support that.

2. Ricky Rubio being a disaster at scoring is why he is a role-player, that is not a secret.

3. The teams were better because they had substantial amounts of internal growth and brought in objectively better players (being Mike Conley and Chris Paul). That doesn't make Ricky Rubio a poor team leader, which was your claim.

Ricky Rubio is a starting-level Point-Guard that has been a net-positive throughout his career, despite glaring flaws (primarily health and scoring). The jab at his leadership qualities is completely untrue, given that he is loved by his teammates everywhere he has been throughout his career. It feels like reaching to further justify Patrick Beverly being the better selection, when there are numerous other arguments why Patrick Beverly is better for the team (which I tend to agree with).
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Re: Beverly or Rubio 

Post#24 » by shrink » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:14 pm

Battletrigger wrote:And I want to point one Stat, teams usually are better the year after Rubio leaves.

Ugh. If you replace him with Mike Conley or Chris Paul, yes. Moreover, both Donovan Mitchell and Devin Booker effusively praise Rubio for their big jumps in improvement.

Hard to think that replacing Rubio with Jeff Teague was the reason MIN did better, and ignore Jimmy Butler.
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Re: Beverly or Rubio 

Post#25 » by winforlose » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:15 pm

shrink wrote:
Battletrigger wrote:And I want to point one Stat, teams usually are better the year after Rubio leaves.

Ugh. If you replace him with Mike Conley or Chris Paul, yes.

Hard to think that replacing him with Jeff Teague was the reason MIN did better, and ignore Jimmy Butler.


Teague was better that first year. He just fit better, shot better, and the offense flowed better with an extra shooter.
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Re: Beverly or Rubio 

Post#26 » by shrink » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:19 pm

winforlose wrote:
shrink wrote:
Battletrigger wrote:And I want to point one Stat, teams usually are better the year after Rubio leaves.

Ugh. If you replace him with Mike Conley or Chris Paul, yes.

Hard to think that replacing him with Jeff Teague was the reason MIN did better, and ignore Jimmy Butler.


Teague was better that first year. He just fit better, shot better, and the offense flowed better with an extra shooter.

I will agree that Teague gets unfairly criticized, but Rubio’s advanced stats and team stats on and off show him to be a much better player.

The reason I posted was the logic. The statement was the teams got better, which is true. However, this logic sees an effect, and implies a cause. Correlation isn’t causation. I think the more likely reason that MIN got better was because of adding Jimmy and Taj, not that Rubio leaving caused our improvement.
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Re: Beverly or Rubio 

Post#27 » by shrink » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:22 am

I just listened to Marney’s pre-season (?) interview of Pat Beverley. It was great, and it’s really easy to love this guy.

Highly recommended.

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