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Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST

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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#81 » by Mattya » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:26 am

Calinks wrote:This game has sucked but we should be getting killed by 20+ I'm still somewhat encouraged that we are in this. Defense has been bad and our inability to hit open shots has killed us but this team is close, we just need some more pieces, hopefully, we can bring oe or two in at the deadline that can push us forward.

This sucks but I still feel optimistic. We can be better.


Yea, I’m disappointed in Towns tonight, and the defense, but Ant played well, Beas finally decided to play. We are missing a back up defensive big, and a starting forward
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#82 » by Calinks » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:34 am

Myles Turner, SAVE US!
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#83 » by Calinks » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:41 am

Big trend this season is that we cannot win shootouts. If the game is high-scoring, we are toast.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#84 » by m2002brian » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:42 am

Calinks wrote:Big trend this season is that we cannot win shootouts. If the game is high-scoring, we are toast.


Big trend since always.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#85 » by MN7725 » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:44 am

annoying game, can't make things so easy on the Suns by not getting back in transition, not getting matched up properly '
they can score plenty on their own without all the gift possessions

Prince seems to be back to his serviceable level again, his first 18-20 games were disaster, but the next 20 games have been solid overall
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#86 » by shangrila » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:46 am

Yeah, I don't want to overreact. The Suns are hands down the best team in the league, they haven't even hit double digit losses yet which is crazy. They've got an 81% win rate after tonight. Like...jesus. I'm with Calinks, I'd have expected a 20pt loss.

That said, I do think games like this add to the pile of evidence that KAT just isn't that guy. He's Love v2. Which isn't a bad player, to be sure, but the idea that he's anywhere near guys like Embiid or Jokic is laughable.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#87 » by m2002brian » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:54 am

The reason I’m willing to “overreact” is because we aren’t a .500 team because we’re bad or lack talent. We’re a .500 because we lack consistency.
We have what it takes to beat any team any night.
But towns is not the feature show, and needs to back off and let ant be the guy. Towns needs to watch some Pau Gasol video and get his ass in the paint.

Excuses for loses are for losers.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#88 » by Merc_Porto » Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:43 pm

We have a softer schedule in February, better to take advantage to secure that play-in spot.
Hopefully, it will be the 7th or 8th spots. I mean the Clippers are without Kwhi and PG, Portland without Lillard, Pelicans without pretty much all squad. In front of us is Denver with Jokic without Murray and MPJ which is so impressive.

Come on now!
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#89 » by Calinks » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:18 pm

I'm not freaking out because I just don't think we are good enough, particularly with starters out, to beat the top two teams in the west. They are just better times by a significant magnitude. We could get a win here and there against them but 7/10 times they will win. I think that is fine, we are not a final product. Looking at the long game here and we are building up to truly compete with those teams in the near future.

I wouldn't be too down on KAT here either, he was amazing in that Golden State game but didn't get much help at all. As for last night, yea he wasn't as good, players will have off nights, but again, the team was pretty bad at points too. We just don't have the horse right now to consistently take on these amazing teams. If we shot like the Suns and Warriors did, we would have won those games, they are far better at executing than we are, that's something they have built up over recent seasons, we aren't there yet but we are making progress.

More time together, some roster moves, we are on our way to being better.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#90 » by winforlose » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:42 pm

Calinks wrote:I'm not freaking out because I just don't think we are good enough, particularly with starters out, to beat the top two teams in the west. They are just better times by a significant magnitude. We could get a win here and there against them but 7/10 times they will win. I think that is fine, we are not a final product. Looking at the long game here and we are building up to truly compete with those teams in the near future.

I wouldn't be too down on KAT here either, he was amazing in that Golden State game but didn't get much help at all. As for last night, yea he wasn't as good, players will have off nights, but again, the team was pretty bad at points too. We just don't have the horse right now to consistently take on these amazing teams. If we shot like the Suns and Warriors did, we would have won those games, they are far better at executing than we are, that's something they have built up over recent seasons, we aren't there yet but we are making progress.

More time together, some roster moves, we are on our way to being better.


I mostly agree. What frustrates me is our inability to adapt our offense or defense based on other teams game plans. Finch’s high wall was innovative and mostly successful to start the season, but teams caught on to it and figured out how to beat it. The last five games we have seen an enormous number of uncontested 3s by our opponents, and that will be the case for the next five unless Finch adapts. I don’t know why anyone thinks a run out is a good defensive answer to an open 3 point shooter (especially in the corner,) but it just isn’t. More often then not the shot will not be blocked, deflected, or altered by the run out. Likewise, when the defense doesn’t collapse to guard the roller the roller gets an easy bucket. The system is broken.

On offense teams have figured out quickly the way to beat us is to force us to take 3s. It isn’t a coincidence we shoot such a high volume, opponents guard the paint. Organized chaos was scary when I first heard it and now it is just plain disappointing. We have a found a lot of success with PNR but without Dlo we cannot really run it. Finch needs to encourage more off ball screens and offensive sets to make our offense less predictable.

Finally, and I cannot stress this enough, our players must start boxing out. We lose games when opponents get 2 or more shots in key moments. We had a comeback cooking down 4 midway through the 4th. We gave up a couple of bad second chance looks and suddenly we were down 10. This kind of nonsense cannot continue, and it can only be fixed by teaching the fundamentals, then demanding them of the players.

I like Finch, and I am nowhere near ready to turn on him. But he needs to be responsive to what is happening and less stuck on his existing schemes.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#91 » by shrink » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:43 pm

I agree that KAT isn’t “the guy,” but maybe we already have “the guy” in Ant - we just need to wait until he gets there.

If KAT isn’t focused on being “the guy,” he would be one of the best #2’s in the NBA. He’s about three rungs above someone like Miles Turner.

For the record, I don’t think even Kevin Garnett wanted to be “the guy.” Even though he was always far better than anyone else on any year’s roster, The Kid wanted to go out and be a super-hardworking teammate. The most comfortable I ever saw him was when McHale brought in Cassell and Spree, and he continued to talk about what the three amigos could do. On that team, Big Baller Cassell was probably the guy, asking for the ball in clutch situations, and KAT, with great defense and 20-10-5, made sure we had done well enough in the first 46 minutes that the final two mattered. Towns can play that role.

My point is, not being “the guy,” as I understand the term, doesn’t mean you aren’t a critical star on the team.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#92 » by Calinks » Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:29 pm

winforlose wrote:
Calinks wrote:I'm not freaking out because I just don't think we are good enough, particularly with starters out, to beat the top two teams in the west. They are just better times by a significant magnitude. We could get a win here and there against them but 7/10 times they will win. I think that is fine, we are not a final product. Looking at the long game here and we are building up to truly compete with those teams in the near future.

I wouldn't be too down on KAT here either, he was amazing in that Golden State game but didn't get much help at all. As for last night, yea he wasn't as good, players will have off nights, but again, the team was pretty bad at points too. We just don't have the horse right now to consistently take on these amazing teams. If we shot like the Suns and Warriors did, we would have won those games, they are far better at executing than we are, that's something they have built up over recent seasons, we aren't there yet but we are making progress.

More time together, some roster moves, we are on our way to being better.


I mostly agree. What frustrates me is our inability to adapt our offense or defense based on other teams game plans. Finch’s high wall was innovative and mostly successful to start the season, but teams caught on to it and figured out how to beat it. The last five games we have seen an enormous number of uncontested 3s by our opponents, and that will be the case for the next five unless Finch adapts. I don’t know why anyone thinks a run out is a good defensive answer to an open 3 point shooter (especially in the corner,) but it just isn’t. More often then not the shot will not be blocked, deflected, or altered by the run out. Likewise, when the defense doesn’t collapse to guard the roller the roller gets an easy bucket. The system is broken.

On offense teams have figured out quickly the way to beat us is to force us to take 3s. It isn’t a coincidence we shoot such a high volume, opponents guard the paint. Organized chaos was scary when I first heard it and now it is just plain disappointing. We have a found a lot of success with PNR but without Dlo we cannot really run it. Finch needs to encourage more off ball screens and offensive sets to make our offense less predictable.

Finally, and I cannot stress this enough, our players must start boxing out. We lose games when opponents get 2 or more shots in key moments. We had a comeback cooking down 4 midway through the 4th. We gave up a couple of bad second chance looks and suddenly we were down 10. This kind of nonsense cannot continue, and it can only be fixed by teaching the fundamentals, then demanding them of the players.

I like Finch, and I am nowhere near ready to turn on him. But he needs to be responsive to what is happening and less stuck on his existing schemes.


I'm definitely concerned about the defense but I think it can bounce back. We got a little lucky early in the year too with teams just shooting poorly. Lately we have played some of the best offenses in the NBA, some of this is just getting lit up by great teams that are hot, a lot of it is our defense slacking too.

That said we are missing some key defenders as well, I'm concerned but not too worried about the defense at this point. If this happens consistently while we are at full force, then I'll start freaking out.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#93 » by Calinks » Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:34 pm

shrink wrote:I agree that KAT isn’t “the guy,” but maybe we already have “the guy” in Ant - we just need to wait until he gets there.

If KAT isn’t focused on being “the guy,” he would be one of the best #2’s in the NBA. He’s about three rungs above someone like Miles Turner.

For the record, I don’t think even Kevin Garnett wanted to be “the guy.” Even though he was always far better than anyone else on any year’s roster, The Kid wanted to go out and be a super-hardworking teammate. The most comfortable I ever saw him was when McHale brought in Cassell and Spree, and he continued to talk about what the three amigos could do. On that team, Big Baller Cassell was probably the guy, asking for the ball in clutch situations, and KAT, with great defense and 20-10-5, made sure we had done well enough in the first 46 minutes that the final two mattered. Towns can play that role.

My point is, not being “the guy,” as I understand the term, doesn’t mean you aren’t a critical star on the team.

Personally, I think a lot of this type of stuff is overblown. There are certainly players who are way better at carrying the load but having a really good team and teammates that compliment your stars is more important than anything. I maintain that you don't want your number one go to guy to be a center. I think the game is just far easier if that guy is a wing/guard.

As amazing as Jokic is and is playing right now, they are just 6 games over .500, they were right next to use record wise recently, why, his team is not up to snuff. That said, I am not denying that Jokic is more effective at getting buckets down the stretch than KAT right now, just saying I think people need to focus more on the team as opposed to saying its KAT failing to step up.

All the great teams in the NBA aren't great because one guy alone, they are well constructed to enhance that one star players abilities. We are still tailoring our team around our stars (Ant and KAT).
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#94 » by m2002brian » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:10 pm

The ask isn’t of KAT stepping up more. The ask is for KAT to step aside more. Stop being really good at many things and be great at a couple things.
Play more down low, be great at the post up game. Be great at boxing out. Between KAT, Ant, and DLO, pecking order should probably be more Ant, DLo, then KAT. Ant and DLO just aren’t as stupid and indecisive as KAT. We should really stop trying to mimic Denver’s high post game, when our high post guy can’t see a double coming, is horribly indecisive, and leads the league in post up turnovers. That is not the kind of guy you put as your first option.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#95 » by life_saver » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:30 pm

m2002brian wrote:The ask isn’t of KAT stepping up more. The ask is for KAT to step aside more. Stop being really good at many things and be great at a couple things.
Play more down low, be great at the post up game. Be great at boxing out. Between KAT, Ant, and DLO, pecking order should probably be more Ant, DLo, then KAT. Ant and DLO just aren’t as stupid and indecisive as KAT. We should really stop trying to mimic Denver’s high post game, when our high post guy can’t see a double coming, is horribly indecisive, and leads the league in post up turnovers. That is not the kind of guy you put as your first option.

This...KAT should stop trying to play like Jokic when he just isn't effective in that. KAT and Wolves lead the league in post up turnovers. Every game, there will be like couple of very avoidable turnovers if KAT can stop those fancy behind the shoulder passes or flashy passes from post. I used to think that he will learn from his mistakes and either improve this aspect of passing or cut down these kind of passes but nope..he still keeps repeating those mistakes.

For me, the bigger concerns are constant overhelping on the defense and the transition defense. Finch and the team has do better job of adjusting on defense depending on the opponent they are playing.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#96 » by KGdaBom » Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:57 pm

m2002brian wrote:The ask isn’t of KAT stepping up more. The ask is for KAT to step aside more. Stop being really good at many things and be great at a couple things.
Play more down low, be great at the post up game. Be great at boxing out. Between KAT, Ant, and DLO, pecking order should probably be more Ant, DLo, then KAT. Ant and DLO just aren’t as stupid and indecisive as KAT. We should really stop trying to mimic Denver’s high post game, when our high post guy can’t see a double coming, is horribly indecisive, and leads the league in post up turnovers. That is not the kind of guy you put as your first option.

You're a well known KAT detractor. I take any negativity you have regarding him with a huge grain of salt. KAT is one of the best 3 point shooters in the NBA. I don't want him going low and staying there. He's great at both so I want him to be very unpredictable about being low or perimeter.
KAT is by far our most efficient scorer so the pecking order should definitely be KAT first.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#97 » by shangrila » Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:21 pm

Calinks wrote:
shrink wrote:I agree that KAT isn’t “the guy,” but maybe we already have “the guy” in Ant - we just need to wait until he gets there.

If KAT isn’t focused on being “the guy,” he would be one of the best #2’s in the NBA. He’s about three rungs above someone like Miles Turner.

For the record, I don’t think even Kevin Garnett wanted to be “the guy.” Even though he was always far better than anyone else on any year’s roster, The Kid wanted to go out and be a super-hardworking teammate. The most comfortable I ever saw him was when McHale brought in Cassell and Spree, and he continued to talk about what the three amigos could do. On that team, Big Baller Cassell was probably the guy, asking for the ball in clutch situations, and KAT, with great defense and 20-10-5, made sure we had done well enough in the first 46 minutes that the final two mattered. Towns can play that role.

My point is, not being “the guy,” as I understand the term, doesn’t mean you aren’t a critical star on the team.

Personally, I think a lot of this type of stuff is overblown. There are certainly players who are way better at carrying the load but having a really good team and teammates that compliment your stars is more important than anything. I maintain that you don't want your number one go to guy to be a center. I think the game is just far easier if that guy is a wing/guard.

As amazing as Jokic is and is playing right now, they are just 6 games over .500, they were right next to use record wise recently, why, his team is not up to snuff. That said, I am not denying that Jokic is more effective at getting buckets down the stretch than KAT right now, just saying I think people need to focus more on the team as opposed to saying its KAT failing to step up.

All the great teams in the NBA aren't great because one guy alone, they are well constructed to enhance that one star players abilities. We are still tailoring our team around our stars (Ant and KAT).

The problem is, if KAT isn’t “the guy”, then what is he?

His defence has improved but it’s still not great, his rebounding has dropped off, his passing has also dropped off and given all that his offensive efficiency is only truly valuable in volume.

This isn’t me saying trade him but, as I said above, any comparison with Jokic or Embiid is laughable. Like, the Nuggets are 6 games above us while missing 2 of their big 3. Does anyone, including yourself, believe that swapping Towns and Jokic in those situations would have them anywhere close to that record? Or that we wouldn’t be up there with the Suns and GS if we had Jokic?

At this point I’m just ambivalent about KAT. If he stays or goes, has a good game or bad, it’s all just shrug to me. The team goes as Ant, DLo and Bev go.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#98 » by Worm Guts » Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:35 pm

KAT is our best and most efficient scorer, of course that’s not necessarily the same as being the go to guy at the end of the game. You need multiple high level scorers to win though.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#99 » by winforlose » Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:46 pm

Worm Guts wrote:KAT is our best and most efficient scorer, of course that’s not necessarily the same as being the go to guy at the end of the game. You need multiple high level scorers to win though.


Very well said.
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Re: Game 49: Timberwolves at Phoenix, 7:30 pm CST 

Post#100 » by m2002brian » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:07 pm

You can’t always go to him in the midst of a game due to his indecisiveness and tendency to turn it over.

He shouldn’t be the gear the offense moves around.
Focusing on being great in the post doesn’t mean he won’t take 3s. Look at Marc/Pau Gasol, both shot 3s, but they had a job to do and made that their focus.
As much as I hate to say it, we’d probably be better off playing harden/Westbrook Houston style offense. It’s really too bad Kat can’t jump. Because that lob or drive kick offense seems much better suited to our personal. If only Beasley could shoot.
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