Would KAT be MVP level if he got MVP Whistles

winforlose · Post #1 » by **winforlose** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 7:04 am

Topic

Post #2 » by **Calinks** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 7:12 am

The wolves have to be a lot more successful for that, like top 3 seed successful, that's the second biggest barometer after individual play.

winforlose · Post #3 » by **winforlose** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 7:15 am

Calinks wrote:The wolves have to be a lot more successful for that, like top 3 seed successful, that's the second biggest barometer after individual play.

If KAT shot 10 more free throws per game and got opposing bigs in foul trouble more frequently wouldn’t that by itself get us close?

Dewey · Post #4 » by **Dewey** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 12:07 pm

Not a serious discussion until team is a serious contender…

Post #5 » by **Worm Guts** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 1:37 pm

I'm not a big fan the victim stuff. You earn your breaks.

mplsfonz23 · Post #6 » by **mplsfonz23** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 6:12 pm

MVP? No. But if he would stop crying on every drive to the basket, he would get more fouls.
I consider him The Boy That Cried Wolf. (No pun intended) He cries SO much, that sometimes refs tune him out. It's wrong, but it's the path he's on. Lots of players think they are fouled every time. Referees actually study the players they are going to ref ahead of time. And I'm pretty sure he's discuss. If Towns were getting fouled at the rate he claims, then Finch should send it to the NBA review committee. Let them give him feedback, or send fines the refs way.
(They really should be handing out fines to refs who blow several calls IMHO.)
In the meantime....STFU and play!

winforlose · Post #7 » by **winforlose** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 6:59 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:MVP? No. But if he would stop crying on every drive to the basket, he would get more fouls.
I consider him The Boy That Cried Wolf. (No pun intended) He cries SO much, that sometimes refs tune him out. It's wrong, but it's the path he's on. Lots of players think they are fouled every time. Referees actually study the players they are going to ref ahead of time. And I'm pretty sure he's discuss. If Towns were getting fouled at the rate he claims, then Finch should send it to the NBA review committee. Let them give him feedback, or send fines the refs way.
(They really should be handing out fines to refs who blow several calls IMHO.)
In the meantime....STFU and play!

While I also hate the complaining and agree that it does him no favors, I think we are having a different conversation than the one intended by the poll. You watch guys like Harden and Embiid and Curry and other top level players get so much extra help relative to the other star players that it demand examination. As I mentioned above, extra whistles isn’t just about more free throws, it creates foul trouble which disrupts other teams rotations. Moreover, if fouls were more common against KAT’s defenders than he would have more room to operate and would experience less physical resistance. I look at a guy like Embiid and ask other than getting more calls is his really that much better than KAT? I just don’t see it.

Dewey · Post #8 » by **Dewey** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 7:06 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:MVP? No. But if he would stop crying on every drive to the basket, he would get more fouls.
I consider him The Boy That Cried Wolf. (No pun intended) He cries SO much, that sometimes refs tune him out. It's wrong, but it's the path he's on. Lots of players think they are fouled every time. Referees actually study the players they are going to ref ahead of time. And I'm pretty sure he's discuss. If Towns were getting fouled at the rate he claims, then Finch should send it to the NBA review committee. Let them give him feedback, or send fines the refs way.
(They really should be handing out fines to refs who blow several calls IMHO.)
In the meantime....STFU and play!

Yes. Agree Kat is his own worst enemy by far. The only way it will change is if he went to play with Stephen or someone like that… then they’d treat Kat different.

As far as the general discussions around star treatment goes it really is a bunch of crap … nobody deserves ****. It’s a game. Games have rules. If the league cannot move past that, then there’s no point to complain about officials. The NBA has chosen to leave it alone even though there’s plenty of film evidence of obvious preferential treatment. over decades.

WolfAddict · Post #9 » by **WolfAddict** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 10:10 pm

I voted maybe - It's hard to say whether or not that's the only thing holding him back from being MVP contender - I agree with others saying that he can be his own worst enemy with the whining when he doesn't get a call.

I think if the team keep playing the way we are (a + .500 team that is) then he might start getting the calls... Maybe anyway.

shrink · Post #10 » by **shrink** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 10:23 pm

I don’t think he’d be MVP, but the point is valid.

If he got all the calls, he could be the most effective offensive player in the NBA, able to score anywhere, and with every move underneath. However, as long as he plays center, he will be expected to be a better defender.

Can this happen? KAT has to be better at avoiding fouls before he can get calls for being fouled. His defense is better this year, but even with the calls, I don’t think he’d lead the league in scoring - he likes to pass, and it’s always to a less effective offensive player.

winforlose · Post #11 » by **winforlose** » Thu Mar 3, 2022 10:44 pm

shrink wrote:I don’t think he’d be MVP, but the point is valid.

If he got all the calls, he could be the most effective offensive player in the NBA, able to score anywhere, and with every move underneath. However, as long as he plays center, he will be expected to be a better defender.

Can this happen? KAT has to be better at avoiding fouls before he can get calls for being fouled. His defense is better this year, but even with the calls, I don’t think he’d lead the league in scoring - he likes to pass, and it’s always to a less effective offensive player.

A lot of what you said is valid, but I want to clarify one thing. The term “level” doesn’t necessarily mean the actual MVP. It is more about being in the conversation and personally competing and reshaping the game the way other candidates do.

mplsfonz23 · Post #12 » by **mplsfonz23** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 2:49 pm

winforlose wrote:
shrink wrote:I don’t think he’d be MVP, but the point is valid.

If he got all the calls, he could be the most effective offensive player in the NBA, able to score anywhere, and with every move underneath. However, as long as he plays center, he will be expected to be a better defender.

Can this happen? KAT has to be better at avoiding fouls before he can get calls for being fouled. His defense is better this year, but even with the calls, I don’t think he’d lead the league in scoring - he likes to pass, and it’s always to a less effective offensive player.

A lot of what you said is valid, but I want to clarify one thing. The term “level” doesn’t necessarily mean the actual MVP. It is more about being in the conversation and personally competing and reshaping the game the way other candidates do.

When I think "MVP" I factor in, if this player were removed from the team, how would that team look?
Bucks without Giannis is below average. Champ Cavs without Bron is garbage, etc. Without KAT this team is still okay. We still would have 2 stars and could win some games. But KAT has shown he can take over a game, he just needs to win more.

winforlose · Post #13 » by **winforlose** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 2:57 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:
winforlose wrote:
shrink wrote:I don’t think he’d be MVP, but the point is valid.

If he got all the calls, he could be the most effective offensive player in the NBA, able to score anywhere, and with every move underneath. However, as long as he plays center, he will be expected to be a better defender.

Can this happen? KAT has to be better at avoiding fouls before he can get calls for being fouled. His defense is better this year, but even with the calls, I don’t think he’d lead the league in scoring - he likes to pass, and it’s always to a less effective offensive player.

A lot of what you said is valid, but I want to clarify one thing. The term “level” doesn’t necessarily mean the actual MVP. It is more about being in the conversation and personally competing and reshaping the game the way other candidates do.

When I think "MVP" I factor in, if this player were removed from the team, how would that team look?
Bucks without Giannis is below average. Champ Cavs without Bron is garbage, etc. Without KAT this team is still okay. We still would have 2 stars and could win some games. But KAT has shown he can take over a game, he just needs to win more.

Just last year we saw missing KAT for 22 games killed our season. No disrespect to Ant or Dlo but they cannot make the playoffs without KAT, especially with Naz as the only real backup C.

Pooh4ever · Post #14 » by **Pooh4ever** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 5:55 pm

Spoiler:

winforlose · Post #15 » by **winforlose** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 7:25 pm

Fair enough, you have convinced me I need to have a more active role on the Philly board. Since you just won’t stop here.

Post #16 » by **Domejandro** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 11:42 pm

Every time you respond, it gives them fuel to keep coming back. Just report, and we will handle it.

In any case, I lean heavily towards "no", he is significantly worse defensively than Nikola Jokić and Joel Embiid. In all honesty, if foul-calls were fair, he would probably foul out every game from offensive-fouls because of how he flails his arms, the refereeing is way less unfair against Minnesota than Timberwolves fans think.

winforlose · Post #17 » by **winforlose** » Sat Mar 5, 2022 12:02 am

Domejandro wrote:Every time you respond, it gives them fuel to keep coming back. Just report, and we will handle it.

In any case, I lean heavily towards "no", he is significantly worse defensively than Nikola Jokić and Joel Embiid. In all honesty, if foul-calls were fair, he would probably foul out every game from offensive-fouls because of how he flails his arms, the refereeing is way less unfair against Minnesota than Timberwolves fans think.

I think we need to agree to disagree about the refs. I agree that KAT’s defense is a step below the other super bigs, but his offense is so much more quicker and more dynamic. Not only does he drive more than any other center (something which creates a ton of contact,) but his 3 point shooting is a mile ahead of the competition. His rebounding is around the same level but is hampered by the lack of size of his teammates. I also think the wolves as a team are very unsound in box out and rebounding technique. I would call it the #1 priority for Finch during the offseason and preseason.

If you watch Harden, Curry, Embiid, GA, they all create contact and get the whistles. Also as I pointed out a few times the fouls are not only about free throw shooting. Look at how much easier things were when KAT fouled out NYK’s bigs. Putting more opponents help defenders and bigs on the bench would change the entire flow of the game in some cases.

In any event most of the board seems to agree with you, minus of course the Philly trolls who came over to vote.

KGdaBom · Post #18 » by **KGdaBom** » Sat Mar 5, 2022 1:23 am

Pooh4ever wrote:
Spoiler:
No

I mean we like him here in Minnesota but he’s not even consider the top 30 player in the NBA

https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/amp/

Troll go away.

winforlose · Post #19 » by **winforlose** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:07 am

Well, KAT didn’t get all the whistles he should, and he got some against him he shouldn’t have, but this game against the spurs is what I am talking about.

bluethunder0005 · Post #20 » by **bluethunder0005** » Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:32 pm

I don't think he's quite at the level of Embiid or Jokic because they are both better than him defensively and Jokic is an insane passer but him getting more FTs would put him in the outer level of conversation I think. If KAT got to shoot FTs at the rate Embiid does then he'd average about 4 more points a game at his FT shooting percentages. 4 more points a game while also raising his FG % (the missed shots that he is fouled on exchanged for FTs) would put him as the #4 scorer in the league by PPG and his FG% would be close to Giannis.

Realistically, Jokic should win in a landslide and there shouldn't even be a conversation as he's been even better than last year and Embiid really hasn't been much better than in previous years besides the refs giving him even more FTs. But with voter fatigue and the best statistical seasons are from the non-top seeded teams I could see KAT being top 10 voting pretty easily if he got Embiid's calls.

Would Would KAT be MVP level if he got MVP Whistles?