What contract would you offer Taurean Prince this offseason ?

[shrink]

So what cap space do we have if we decline the options on Naz and Nowell, withdraw offers to Okogie, and keep Princes cap hold? Do we have an MLE?

Just to clear things up here, we won’t have any cap space, so if we want to add salary, it needs to be through exceptions, like the MidLevel Exception, or bringing back players where we have Bird rights, which are exempt from the salary cap rules.

Assuming we keep our pick, and if we sign-and-extend Naz and Jaylen, our payroll for 12 players will be right up to the salary cap. The cap is still $25 mil less than the luxury threshold, so we can add up to $25 mil in payroll by

$10 mil - using the MLE
$4 mil - using the BAE
???? mil - whatever we want to pay Prince.
$1 mil each - however many of our three 2nd round picks we sign
Vet min deals
Trades that bring in more payroll (within CBA rules)

We just don’t want this to be more than 15 guys, or more than adding $25 mil.

[Nick K]

Too early knowing we have other issues specifically interior size/defense. Anyway, offer him Layman’s $4 million … 2 years with team option year 3.

He is going to get at least double that number imo. I’m guessing he is getting anywhere from 8-12 million a year. I’d absolutely bring him back and hope we can find a big as well. He really has come around for the past couple months, and has apparently been a big locker room guy and leader of the bench.

I'd sign him for 8-10 in a heartbeat. I love his maturity, rebounding, court smarts, hitting shots like he has, and oerall really good play. He works here!

[minimus]

Can anyone explain our offseason timeline?

1) draft Jun 23 (we have four picks)
2) FA market opens Aug 2 (MLE, BAE)
3) trade market opens (for instance when TP sign and trade is possible)???
4) RFA extension (Nowell, Reid)

I am asking because TP extension depends on many other things, such as Reid, Nowell extension, draft, trade. I also dont know whether we have birds rights in his situation, and how we should act in order to be flexible during offseason.

P.S. I think the rest of season and hopefully playoff performance will clarify TP value for us. He has been very inconsistent performer for ATL, BRO, CLE, he also has been plagued by injuries. Yes, he is 27yo and can be considered a veteran in his prime for this team.

[shrink]

Can anyone explain our offseason timeline?

1) draft Jun 23 (we have four picks)
2) FA market opens Aug 2 (MLE, BAE)
3) trade market opens (for instance when TP sign and trade is possible)???
4) RFA extension (Nowell, Reid)

I am asking because TP extension depends on many other things, such as Reid, Nowell extension, draft, trade. I also dont know whether we have birds rights in his situation, and how we should act in order to be flexible during offseason.

P.S. I think the rest of season and hopefully playoff performance will clarify TP value for us. He has been very inconsistent performer for ATL, BRO, CLE, he also has been plagued by injuries. Yes, he is 27yo and can be considered a veteran in his prime for this team.

We have Early Bird rights on Prince. That means we will want to do all our other transactions first, since we can use those rights to offer Prince to whatever contract we want, even if the previous transactions have taken us over the salary cap.

EDIT: I re-read it, and I don’t want to mislead anyone. We can engage with Prince on contract negotiations at any time since he is under contract with us, and we may reach an agreement in principle early. Other teams won’t be able to lowball Prince, saying, “who knows if the Wolves will even offer you a contract!” Prince and his agent will have our offer - we just won’t sign the deal until we are done with our other transactions.

[Clav]

Please add a sign and trade option. I liked the idea of Prince as a 3 and D when I heard the trade was made. But I also thought another move was coming for size. Look at what Clevland built, how their size just overwhelms teams. We are the opposite, we go for length rather than height and strength, and while the athletic gifts of V8 and MCD and to a degree Prince certainly help, we are dead last in defensive rebounding. Prince is just too small to play backup PF against big teams and we are set at SF. I would bank on Prince’s resurgence by offering a sign and trade to any team willing to offer decent value for him (his bird rights help with the acquisition.) We need a legit backup PF and C so that when our opponents go big we can match them instead of getting steamrolled.

Its next day, but add S/T, very good points. I think you're on the right track, he will be valuable on the market for sure.

[Clav]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I just have a notion - to respond to saying the poll options are too high - Prince is not going to be signed for $4-$6M a year, he's a sought after wing contributor that will be coming off a pretty good year, and he's 27 years old which means a 3-year deal is right through his prime as a baller.

His counting stats aren't excellent through the first 2/3 of this season, but lately his play has picked up to nearer career averages, and to me has really helped Minnesota's defense work despite undersized in the post.

Cheers!

[Dewey]

The contract size just isn’t there until there is a legit PF on this squad…

[shangrila]

I'd do 7 or 8 mil per for 2-3 years.

[winforlose]

I feel like the thing missing in this conversation is the rotation. We know all 5 starters are under contract for next year, but do they all start? Do we move Bev to the bench to reduce his usage to keep him healthy? Do we move MCD back to the starting lineup to reduce stress on V8? I ask because you don’t pay Prince rotation money unless he is in the rotation, and I am not sure he is.

Assuming for the sake of argument we keep all 5 starters in their current roles, then what? Does JMAC keep his backup PG role? If yes then where does Nowell fit? To understand the contract size of Prince we also need to understand the contract situation and more specifically cost of Naz and Nowell. There is also the fact that Bolmaro will need minutes, and we will be welcoming in new draft players (how many remains to be seen,) who will also need rotation minutes. Even if you send our new rookies to the G for the whole year are you going to send Bolmaro back there as well? If yes then why bring him over in the first place, just to run out the clock on his rookie deal? I keep trying to find a spot for Prince and try as I might I cannot.

Last thought and it is important, does Finch like small ball? I have heard him talk about our lack of size and he doesn’t seem to enjoy it. I also know from Finch’s comments he likes physicality, and I am not sure Prince is that guy either? Whoever we bring in as POBO will talk to the the coach and if the coach says bring me size, how in the world does that mean TP. don’t get me wrong, TP has done well these past few months, but he is a 3 playing 4 and averaging 2.4 rebounds per game. With Naz averaging 4 that is 6.4 from your bench bigs. That is unacceptable and unsustainable.

[shrink]

I feel like the thing missing in this conversation is the rotation. We know all 5 starters are under contract for next year, but do they all start? Do we move Bev to the bench to reduce his usage to keep him healthy? Do we move MCD back to the starting lineup to reduce stress on V8? I ask because you don’t pay Prince rotation money unless he is in the rotation, and I am not sure he is.

Correct, and in a standard team cap situation, I agree with you. Prince is maybe the #9-#11 guy on the team, and typically, for a guy in that spot, you want a cheap contract, say two years for $8 mil, the last year partially guaranteed. The fact that Prince would BE in the rotation for other teams means he has more value to them, they might offer three year for $24 mil, and MIN would politely decline. Too rich for their blood.

In this situation, I still think the overpaid, one year deal is what takes precedence. This summer, the Wolves are $25 mil under the cap, with essentially unspendable money. If you don’t spend it to keep Prince, you don’t have other players to spend it on, because you don’t have additional exceptions (I assume we use the full MLE). This money is “use it or lose it,” and it doesn’t cost any lux tax to use.

In general, you don’t want to spend $15 mil for a guy that might give you $4 mil in production. But if you don’t make the top offer, you lose $4 mil in production from this year’s team. This is the same situation as ATL overpaying to bring back 2020 Gallinari ($20 mil for one season as a bench player). Both teams were way under the lux, for now. In addition, if the deal is an expiring, it is a contract that another team could be willing to accept for one year if they want to trade us a high salary player, which we would otherwise struggle to match.

[TaylorTag]

I don't see him signing beyond D'Lo's contract. If D'Lo doesn't get an extension, then I can see Prince coming back on a sizable 1 year deal, something like Beverley's... If D'Lo gets extended, I can see them locking up Prince for a few years on a somewhat team-friendly deal.. Prince's player profile as a long 3/D wing is something a lot of teams covet.. Even if he is not a high usage contributor, just having that type of player on the roster is extremely helpful

[Biff Cooper]

Depends what else we do in the offseason. I would assume Prince will be in more demand of returning to the Wolves than Okogie or Layman, but still priority to more of a PF. I'd assume we will have at least one or two rookies on the roster next season as well. Preferably, the BPA at our #1 draft pick is a 6'-11", 235 pound athletic, good defensive, good shooting, PF.

[minimus]

Rank, Name, Age, MP
****** core players ******
1 Anthony Edwards 20 34.4
2 Karl-Anthony Towns 26 33.5
3 D'Angelo Russell 25 32
4 Jaden McDaniels 21 26.1
5 Patrick Beverley 33 25.6

****** complimentary players ******
6 Jarred Vanderbilt 22 25.6
7 Malik Beasley 25 25
8 Taurean Prince 27 16.8
9 Naz Reid 22 15.7

****** end of bench players ******
10 Jaylen Nowell 22 15.6
11 Jordan McLaughlin 25 14

****** development projects ******
13 Nathan Knight 24 7
14 Leandro Bolmaro 21 6.6
17 McKinley Wright IV 23 3

****** out of rotation ******
12 Josh Okogie 23 10.4
15 Jake Layman 27 6.5
16 Chris Silva 25 3

How to improve this roster?

1) develop Ant, MCD, Vando, Bolmaro
2) add size
3) use wisely picks, MLE

I see one interesting scenario, where we use Nowell, and our 2022 SRPs. To either move up in draft or trade. For instance, we have three SRPs in 2022 draft, as far as I remember two SRPs is a fair price to facilitate a sign-trade. Delon Wright, Tyus Jones used this scenario. Which RFA can be had for two SRPs? DiVincenzo?

So in my opinion we could do something like this:

1) draft Mark Williams
2) use Nowell, our SRP to move up in draft and get late FRP, draft Wendell Moore Jr.
3) resign TP for MLE 27mil/3yrs, but last year in contract is team option

So my roster to start 2022 season would be:

****** core players ******
1 Anthony Edwards 20 34.4
2 Karl-Anthony Towns 26 33.5
3 D'Angelo Russell 25 32
4 Jaden McDaniels 21 26.1 (more minutes)
5 Patrick Beverley 33 25.6

****** complimentary players ******
6 Jarred Vanderbilt 22 25.6
7 Malik Beasley 25 25
8 Taurean Prince 27 16.8
9 Naz Reid 22 15.7

****** end of bench players ******
10 Mark Williams 21 15.6
11 Jordan McLaughlin 25 14

****** development projects ******
12 player on two way contract 24 7
13 Leandro Bolmaro 21 6.6 (more minutes)
14 Wendell Moore Jr. 3

****** out of rotation ******
15 McKinley Wright IV 23 23 10.4
16 Nathan Knight 27 6.5
17 player on two way contract 25 3

[shrink]

I didn’t want to start a new thread, but Britt proposed an “insane” idea of swapping Prince with Vando in the starting unit. He thinks both could fit better in the other’s role.

As a starter, Prince provides legitimate floor-spacing and some two-way play. We know how Malik Beasley opens the floor for KAT and Ant, and we saw how DAL went back to double-teaming KAT, which teams couldn’t do with Prince out there over Vanderbilt. A swap would hurt our rebounding, and Prince isn’t the defender that Vando is, but the offensive gains might be worth it. Meanwhile, Vando off the bench would be a nice fit with the “create chaos” second unit, and it might not be as bad a hit to chemistry as you would think, since those guys all played together with the Iowa Wolves. Vando balances Beasley.

[minimus]

I didn’t want to start a new thread, but Britt proposed an “insane” idea of swapping Prince with Vando in the starting unit. He thinks both could fit better in the other’s role.

As a starter, Prince provides legitimate floor-spacing and some two-way play. We know how Malik Beasley opens the floor for KAT and Ant, and we saw how DAL went back to double-teaming KAT, which teams couldn’t do with Prince out there over Vanderbilt. A swap would hurt our rebounding, and Prince isn’t the defender that Vando is, but the offensive gains might be worth it. Meanwhile, Vando off the bench would be a nice fit with the “create chaos” second unit, and it might not be as bad a hit to chemistry as you would think, since those guys all played together with the Iowa Wolves. Vando balances Beasley.

Britt is more writer than analyst. I can see one big problem with TP, even if he is hitting 3pointers at high rate now. TP is not a good defender. He is not quick enough when is guarding perimeter, he mostly commits fouls when he is losing his opponent. And he is not long nor strong enough under the rim. Playing him in starting unit means 110-120 points from opponents every night.

[old school 34]

I didn’t want to start a new thread, but Britt proposed an “insane” idea of swapping Prince with Vando in the starting unit. He thinks both could fit better in the other’s role.

As a starter, Prince provides legitimate floor-spacing and some two-way play. We know how Malik Beasley opens the floor for KAT and Ant, and we saw how DAL went back to double-teaming KAT, which teams couldn’t do with Prince out there over Vanderbilt. A swap would hurt our rebounding, and Prince isn’t the defender that Vando is, but the offensive gains might be worth it. Meanwhile, Vando off the bench would be a nice fit with the “create chaos” second unit, and it might not be as bad a hit to chemistry as you would think, since those guys all played together with the Iowa Wolves. Vando balances Beasley.

Britt is more writer than analyst. I can see one big problem with TP, even if he is hitting 3pointers at high rate now. TP is not a good defender. He is not quick enough when is guarding perimeter, he mostly commits fouls when he is losing his opponent. And he is not long nor strong enough under the rim. Playing him in starting unit means 110-120 points from opponents every night.

It creates a good talker, but I can't see leaning into the offense while ignoring the defense & rebounding being a good thing? I feel, the offensive problems that V8 creates get vastly overrated at times. I look forward to seeing how that specific issue plays out in the playoffs and then, I'm good going back & revisiting options?

That V8 piece & DLo on defense are the two things that I need to see play out in playoffs to make go forward decisions.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[Clav]

Hey everyone, thanks for contributing to this thread. Obviously, I was way off in value estimation for what Prince would get, he just signed a 2/16, which is closer to 2/20, but that 4M gap is pretty significant for a role player. How do you feel about the new contract Taurean signed today ?

[shangrila]

I'd do 7 or 8 mil per for 2-3 years.

Called it.

[minimus]

I'd do 7 or 8 mil per for 2-3 years.

Called it.

Please tell me that we are going to resign DLo for 100 / 4

[shangrila]

I'd do 7 or 8 mil per for 2-3 years.

Called it.

Please tell me that we are going to resign DLo for 100 / 4

Nah, he's gone.