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Wolveswin wrote:

Baseline81 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:To Mavs: Gobert + 29 Mavs 1st (returned for now via Nets)
If Irving re-signs, they need D and will be desperate to make team successful around Doncic.

To Nets: THJ + Bertans
Nets move on from failed Simmons experiment while getting playable players.

To Wolves: Simmons + 24/26/28 Mavs 1sts (maybe swap or two)
Wolves get back most lost draft capital for Gobert. Simmons doesn’t replace quality players Wolves sent Ainge, but…

Simmons in Minnesota nice setting with Towns as his emotional support buddy might save his career. He can come off bench at PF behind Anderson and PG behind Conley. Maybe he can find his mojo and work into starter role. He is a bonus gamble, because…

Wolves put NBA GMs on notice, Conley expiring (plus other salary filler) + Mavs draft capital available for all-in trade TAKE TWO.

Folks on this forum need to let go of Simmons.

Simmons has a place in the NBA. He has played in the absolute two hardest settings (fan bases) in which to play. Places in which former players admit having PTSD like symptoms from the stress, anxiety and straight up abuse they endured. Simmons has played in situations he has been expected to be the 2nd or 3rd star (which he obviously isn’t) while those expectations crippled his mental fortitude. Simmons has proven both of those factors (and more) don’t make for a successful Ben Simmons.

Simmons will eventually land in a NBA soft spot. Indiana, San Antonio, or a Midwest town ready to coddle him back to the role player he is (and finally at some point on the role player contract he deserves).

With that said, trade scenario above, he is simply negative contract filler to offset any negative contract value Gobert has (real or otherwise). But as previously said, a pure flyer bonus in MN next to buddy Towns. Anything Wolves get from the overpaid role player is gravy. More gravy they get, the more tasty the move-on-from-Gobert trade scenario becomes.

I completely disagree with this rosy prediction about Simmons, and his problems go far beyond mental health issues. But even if you’re right, Tim Connelly has done nothing to demonstrate that he wants to be a win-later team, trading talent to collect picks.

This guy gets it

Wolveswin wrote:Any and all Towns trades needs to bring back a high quality starter. Starter should have contract control. Wolves mortgaged their future and can’t afford to trade 4+ years of Towns locked in for flight risk player(s).

Maybe Simmons could be traded with lots of picks to some completely rebuilding team like the Spurs, who could care less if Simmons $80 mil is completely unproductive, but I hope the Spurs organization wouldn’t saddle Pop with him in his final years.

Baseline81 wrote:Folks on this forum need to let go of Simmons.

+1000. In fact, short of murdering a guy, I don’t know what more Simmons could have done over the last two years to demonstrate he isn’t a guy you want on your team. Won’t shoot, poor playoffs, mental health, chronic back injury, knee issues, big salary, hard to fit, refused to talk to teammates, never improved - worse than ever, and unreliable. We want this guy in Ant’s ear?

Keep the ball in Conley or SloMo’s hands, and develop Ant. Not Simmons.

shrink wrote:

Baseline81 wrote:Folks on this forum need to let go of Simmons.

+1000. In fact, short of murdering a guy, I don’t know what more Simmons could have done over the last two years to demonstrate he isn’t a guy you want on your team. Won’t shoot, poor playoffs, mental health, back injury, big salary, hard to fit, refused to talk to teammates, never improved - worse than ever, and unreliable.

Keep the ball in Conley or SloMo’s hands, and develop Ant. Not Simmons.

We like bipolar players on this team and I can't think of a better one.

TimberKat wrote:

shrink wrote:

Baseline81 wrote:Folks on this forum need to let go of Simmons.

+1000. In fact, short of murdering a guy, I don’t know what more Simmons could have done over the last two years to demonstrate he isn’t a guy you want on your team. Won’t shoot, poor playoffs, mental health, back injury, big salary, hard to fit, refused to talk to teammates, never improved - worse than ever, and unreliable.

Keep the ball in Conley or SloMo’s hands, and develop Ant. Not Simmons.

We like bipolar players on this team and I can't think of a better one.

Nah, he is not bipolar, he is completely broken

Wolveswin wrote:To Mavs: Gobert + 29 Mavs 1st (returned for now via Nets)
If Irving re-signs, they need D and will be desperate to make team successful around Doncic.

To Nets: THJ + Bertans
Nets move on from failed Simmons experiment while getting playable players.

To Wolves: Simmons + 24/26/28 Mavs 1sts (maybe swap or two)
Wolves get back most lost draft capital for Gobert. Simmons doesn’t replace quality players Wolves sent Ainge, but…

Simmons in Minnesota nice setting with Towns as his emotional support buddy might save his career. He can come off bench at PF behind Anderson and PG behind Conley. Maybe he can find his mojo and work into starter role. He is a bonus gamble, because…

Wolves put NBA GMs on notice, Conley expiring (plus other salary filler) + Mavs draft capital available for all-in trade TAKE TWO.

Wow. As much as I hate the trade for Gobert, he's still a decent player.

To trade him for the worst contract in the NBA?!

Even I don't dislike his fit that much. Also if we're trading Gobert we better be getting defensive center and a shooter atleast.

Also that's not how draft capital works. What good does it do to have another teams draft capital if your team is getting worse.

Note30 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:To Mavs: Gobert + 29 Mavs 1st (returned for now via Nets)
If Irving re-signs, they need D and will be desperate to make team successful around Doncic.

To Nets: THJ + Bertans
Nets move on from failed Simmons experiment while getting playable players.

To Wolves: Simmons + 24/26/28 Mavs 1sts (maybe swap or two)
Wolves get back most lost draft capital for Gobert. Simmons doesn’t replace quality players Wolves sent Ainge, but…

Simmons in Minnesota nice setting with Towns as his emotional support buddy might save his career. He can come off bench at PF behind Anderson and PG behind Conley. Maybe he can find his mojo and work into starter role. He is a bonus gamble, because…

Wolves put NBA GMs on notice, Conley expiring (plus other salary filler) + Mavs draft capital available for all-in trade TAKE TWO.

Wow. As much as I hate the trade for Gobert, he's still a decent player.

To trade him for the worst contract in the NBA?!

Even I don't dislike his fit that much. Also if we're trading Gobert we better be getting defensive center and a shooter atleast.

Also that's not how draft capital works. What good does it do to have another teams draft capital if your team is getting worse.

Wolves are just above .500 without Towns. I would hope we could all agree Towns is better than Gobert at this stage in career. If not, Wolves have bigger problems than Gobert - and his fit within lineup.

Trade scenario above is chess move #1. Reacquiring assets so Wolves can have a 2nd attempt at building a better team. Minus Gobert plus Towns Wolves should be a spectacular .500 team. Until chess move #2.

Problem with any Gobert trade is how negative his current value is around league. Wolves just don’t know, 75% of what he was valued when (over paid) traded for? 50%? 25%? Full negative? Enter getting a negative contract (in this scenario Simmons) back to help offset Gobert - and recoup as much resale assets as possible.

If Simmons isn’t your cup of tea, fine, find a negative pill you CAN swallow. Sadly one is required. Teams aren’t lining up to give Wolves a PF or PG they prefer for Gobert straight up. Just not happening.

Wolveswin wrote:

Note30 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:To Mavs: Gobert + 29 Mavs 1st (returned for now via Nets)
If Irving re-signs, they need D and will be desperate to make team successful around Doncic.

To Nets: THJ + Bertans
Nets move on from failed Simmons experiment while getting playable players.

To Wolves: Simmons + 24/26/28 Mavs 1sts (maybe swap or two)
Wolves get back most lost draft capital for Gobert. Simmons doesn’t replace quality players Wolves sent Ainge, but…

Simmons in Minnesota nice setting with Towns as his emotional support buddy might save his career. He can come off bench at PF behind Anderson and PG behind Conley. Maybe he can find his mojo and work into starter role. He is a bonus gamble, because…

Wolves put NBA GMs on notice, Conley expiring (plus other salary filler) + Mavs draft capital available for all-in trade TAKE TWO.

Wow. As much as I hate the trade for Gobert, he's still a decent player.

To trade him for the worst contract in the NBA?!

Even I don't dislike his fit that much. Also if we're trading Gobert we better be getting defensive center and a shooter atleast.

Also that's not how draft capital works. What good does it do to have another teams draft capital if your team is getting worse.

Wolves are just above .500 without Towns. I would hope we could all agree Towns is better than Gobert at this stage in career. If not, Wolves have bigger problems than Gobert - and his fit within lineup.

Trade scenario above is chess move #1. Reacquiring assets so Wolves can have a 2nd attempt at building a better team. Minus Gobert plus Towns Wolves should be a spectacular .500 team. Until chess move #2.

Problem with any Gobert trade is how negative his current value is around league. Wolves just don’t know, 75% of what he was valued when (over paid) traded for? 50%? 25%? Full negative? Enter getting a negative contract (in this scenario Simmons) back to help offset Gobert - and recoup as much resale assets as possible.

If Simmons isn’t your cup of tea, fine, find a negative pill you CAN swallow. Sadly one is required. Teams aren’t lining up to give Wolves a PF or PG they prefer for Gobert straight up. Just not happening.

How about we wait a year, see how Towns and Gobert are doing when actually playing together, see if we can raise Goberts value.

Then if we want to take a nuke to our teams value in trying to do a large move again we can.

Personally, I hated the move for Gobert and many here have seen as much.

Selling Gobert for pennies would also be an absolutely terrible idea.

Raise his value next year, then in the 2025 offseason we can do something about it. Right now we're kinda screwed thanks to Kahnelley.

Wolveswin wrote:

Note30 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:To Mavs: Gobert + 29 Mavs 1st (returned for now via Nets)
If Irving re-signs, they need D and will be desperate to make team successful around Doncic.

To Nets: THJ + Bertans
Nets move on from failed Simmons experiment while getting playable players.

To Wolves: Simmons + 24/26/28 Mavs 1sts (maybe swap or two)
Wolves get back most lost draft capital for Gobert. Simmons doesn’t replace quality players Wolves sent Ainge, but…

Simmons in Minnesota nice setting with Towns as his emotional support buddy might save his career. He can come off bench at PF behind Anderson and PG behind Conley. Maybe he can find his mojo and work into starter role. He is a bonus gamble, because…

Wolves put NBA GMs on notice, Conley expiring (plus other salary filler) + Mavs draft capital available for all-in trade TAKE TWO.

Wow. As much as I hate the trade for Gobert, he's still a decent player.

To trade him for the worst contract in the NBA?!

Even I don't dislike his fit that much. Also if we're trading Gobert we better be getting defensive center and a shooter atleast.

Also that's not how draft capital works. What good does it do to have another teams draft capital if your team is getting worse.

Wolves are just above .500 without Towns. I would hope we could all agree Towns is better than Gobert at this stage in career. If not, Wolves have bigger problems than Gobert - and his fit within lineup.

Trade scenario above is chess move #1. Reacquiring assets so Wolves can have a 2nd attempt at building a better team. Minus Gobert plus Towns Wolves should be a spectacular .500 team. Until chess move #2.

Problem with any Gobert trade is how negative his current value is around league. Wolves just don’t know, 75% of what he was valued when (over paid) traded for? 50%? 25%? Full negative? Enter getting a negative contract (in this scenario Simmons) back to help offset Gobert - and recoup as much resale assets as possible.

If Simmons isn’t your cup of tea, fine, find a negative pill you CAN swallow. Sadly one is required. Teams aren’t lining up to give Wolves a PF or PG they prefer for Gobert straight up. Just not happening.

This is why we won’t trade Gobert, at least anytime soon. With his contract and very limited scheme for (at 30), he probably is a positive asset but not a huge positive asset. I still believe Kessler alone probably has similar value.

Thus, we are going to roll with KAT/Gobert until next trade deadline unless KAT demands out. I don’t see a win-now deal out there for KAT, who is also a difficult fit bc of his defensive limitations from the center position. Too bad a Halliburton-type PG isn’t out there like there was for Sabonis.

The one team that is an interesting fit would be OKC. They have sooo much young talent and draft picks. If I’m a betting man, I think Jalen Williams is a top 3 player from last years draft. They could make a win-now move for KAT, who I think is a really nice fit next to Chet’s shot blocking. No idea who/what we could get back, a third team may have to be involved to flip a win-now guy for OKC’s assets.

jpatrick wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:

Note30 wrote:
Wow. As much as I hate the trade for Gobert, he's still a decent player.

To trade him for the worst contract in the NBA?!

Even I don't dislike his fit that much. Also if we're trading Gobert we better be getting defensive center and a shooter atleast.

Also that's not how draft capital works. What good does it do to have another teams draft capital if your team is getting worse.

Wolves are just above .500 without Towns. I would hope we could all agree Towns is better than Gobert at this stage in career. If not, Wolves have bigger problems than Gobert - and his fit within lineup.

Trade scenario above is chess move #1. Reacquiring assets so Wolves can have a 2nd attempt at building a better team. Minus Gobert plus Towns Wolves should be a spectacular .500 team. Until chess move #2.

Problem with any Gobert trade is how negative his current value is around league. Wolves just don’t know, 75% of what he was valued when (over paid) traded for? 50%? 25%? Full negative? Enter getting a negative contract (in this scenario Simmons) back to help offset Gobert - and recoup as much resale assets as possible.

If Simmons isn’t your cup of tea, fine, find a negative pill you CAN swallow. Sadly one is required. Teams aren’t lining up to give Wolves a PF or PG they prefer for Gobert straight up. Just not happening.

This is why we won’t trade Gobert, at least anytime soon. With his contract and very limited scheme for (at 30), he probably is a positive asset but not a huge positive asset. I still believe Kessler alone probably has similar value.

Thus, we are going to roll with KAT/Gobert until next trade deadline unless KAT demands out. I don’t see a win-now deal out there for KAT, who is also a difficult fit bc of his defensive limitations from the center position. Too bad a Halliburton-type PG isn’t out there like there was for Sabonis.

The one team that is an interesting fit would be OKC. They have sooo much young talent and draft picks. If I’m a betting man, I think Jalen Williams is a top 3 player from last years draft. They could make a win-now move for KAT, who I think is a really nice fit next to Chet’s shot blocking. No idea who/what we could get back, a third team may have to be involved to flip a win-now guy for OKC’s assets.

Then let’s shut down all trade Gobert white boarding here. And on TNT. No reason to discuss since waiting is the obvious answer every time.

Well, it looks like GB now... And that's not a compliment.

shrink wrote:.

Thanks for the support on the gb Shrink.

It was like talking to a wall.


Poster A: makes untrue statement about mn player

Poster B (MN fan): takes bait, defends said player

Poster A: ignores MN fan, repeats chit post

Poster B: attempts to clarify comments

Poster A: continues 2 ignore MN fan, repeats chit post

———cycle repeats itself——-

Poster A: insults MN poster’s math & reasoning skills

Poster C: dogpiles on MN fan

fun times.

shrink wrote:

Baseline81 wrote:Folks on this forum need to let go of Simmons.

+1000. In fact, short of murdering a guy, I don’t know what more Simmons could have done over the last two years to demonstrate he isn’t a guy you want on your team. Won’t shoot, poor playoffs, mental health, back injury, big salary, hard to fit, refused to talk to teammates, never improved - worse than ever, and unreliable.

Keep the ball in Conley or SloMo’s hands, and develop Ant. Not Simmons.

There was a Boyz in the Hood cartoon meme where Ben was in a car w a shotgun pointed at a guy running down the street. Another guy repeatedly yelled “Shoot Ben!” but BS couldn’t bring himself to pull the trigger. The player he failed to shoot went on to a HoF football career and mentioned BS during his induction speech.

shrink wrote:.

Hi Shrink,

I went over to the Utah board and chatted w Inigo Montoya
(luckily he didn’t kill me.)

I asked him about the trade.
Here are some highlights from his post:
(I underlined some of his comments for effect.)

“The benefits of the trade as I see it, are three-fold:

1. Getting the Lakers pick (top-4 protected) as a future asset with potentially high value down the road.
2. Making the Jazz worse in order to tank for a better pick.
3. shedding salary for future flexibility

Personally, I think Conley would have been a better fit for the Lakers given his ability to run an offense well, play off the ball, and hit open 3s.

I don't like this trade because:

1.We gave away good players and 2 second round picks just to make this deal happen, supposedly, only for 1 of the Lakers picks, which could very well turn into nothing at all if they end up sucking too much when the pick is due. In that case, we essentially paid another team two second round picks just to take our players, which are actually worth something.

2. I suggested earlier in the season a Conley-Russell trade. It just made sense. Conley played with Gobert and knows how to utilize him better, he's a low-mistake player who know how to run a team, and he also gives the Wolves another year to use his contract and flip him into other assets, which was a concern since negotiations with Russell went nowhere and the Wolves were at risk of losing him for nothing. In the end, we paid you two seconds to take Conley, which was beneficial to you in the first place.

3. We still aren't losing enough games. It seems that in spite of everything Ainge has done to weaken this team, it defies the odds and refuses to really suck.

I can write more, but I will say in conclusion that I think your team won that trade easily, in my opinion.”

This highlights pretty much exactly what I was trying to defend on the gb. Mike is a positive player well worth his 2 year contract. (Personally, I like his deal better than either Rudy or Kat’s deal that’s about to kick in.) We were fortunate that 1) DNo rehabbed his value and 2) Utah is still in the hunt for Wemby.

I would even add one more biggie: Mike Conley’s influence on Ant.

I think right now, everyone recognizes that this is Ant’s team, and it will only reach championship caliber if Ant becomes a superstar. Because of this, every move we make has one eye on developing Ant. People say that since Conley knows how to play well with Gobert, he helps winning now by maximizing Rudy, and that is true. But since Rudy is here for the long haul, there is no better person to show Ant how to plat with Rudy than Conley.

One of Ant’s special gifts is that he wants to absorb as much knowledge as possible, which is why he says Ricky Rubio was so important to his rookie success. It’s important with an impressionable kid that we get the right voices whispering in his ear, and we definitely want that voice to b Conley’s over DLo’s. Conley is a consummate professional, putting in all the work off the court and on it, on both sides of the ball. He has had a long career being consistently good to great. Did you know he’s played 15 seasons and never gotten a technical foul?!? Or that he has won the NBA Sportsmanship Award three times. We want this guy rubbing off on Ant as soon as possible, to help him have along and successful career.

shrink wrote:I would even add one more biggie: Mike Conley’s influence on Ant.

I think right now, everyone recognizes that this is Ant’s team, and it will only reach championship caliber if Ant becomes a superstar. Because of this, every move we make has one eye on developing Ant. People say that since Conley knows how to play well with Gobert, he helps winning now by maximizing Rudy, and that is true. But since Rudy is here for the long haul, there is no better person to show Ant how to plat with Rudy than Conley.

One of Ant’s special gifts is that he wants to absorb as much knowledge as possible, which is why he says Ricky Rubio was so important to his rookie success. It’s important with an impressionable kid that we get the right voices whispering in his ear, and we definitely want that voice to b Conley’s over DLo’s. Conley is a consummate professional, putting in all the work off the court and on it, on both sides of the ball. He has had a long career being consistently good to great. Did you know he’s played 15 seasons and never gotten a technical foul?!? Or that he has won the NBA Sportsmanship Award three times. We want this guy rubbing off on Ant as soon as possible, to help him have along and successful career.

Exactly. The laker fan kept going on about Mike’s age as of it were a detriment. When in fact his age is a benefit for the aforementioned reasons you have given. He has a video game mindset about trades. He keep going on about age, ppg, ast, etc. He’s not looking at the experience, professionalism, leadership, on/off court success, and chemistry Mike brings to Minnesota and specifically how huge that is for an impressionable 21yo budding superstar like Ant.

Ant and DLo essentially plays the same position. In the long run, can you have both at max contact? Same argument some are saying about Towns and Gobert. Also, can you possibly have a worse mentor than DLo for Edwards. It just reenforces all Ant's short comings in D and shot selection. Just run and shoot as fast as you can is not going to win championships. Sure, when you are hot it looked awesome but you will die by the sword more often. Conley will get Ant to play more within the team concept and winning ways.

With ant injuries, does it make sense to try some 10 day contract on player capable of creating and/or scoring?

Isn't it worth a shot to try some guy like K. Walker, I. Thomas, L. Stephenson, etc.... ?

Kineto wrote:With ant injuries, does it make sense to try some 10 day contract on player capable of creating and/or scoring?

Isn't it worth a shot to try some guy like K. Walker, I. Thomas, L. Stephenson, etc.... ?

To do that, you need an open roster spot, meaning they would need to eat the contract of Rivers or Knight plus pay the new guy.

Klomp wrote:

Kineto wrote:With ant injuries, does it make sense to try some 10 day contract on player capable of creating and/or scoring?

Isn't it worth a shot to try some guy like K. Walker, I. Thomas, L. Stephenson, etc.... ?

To do that, you need an open roster spot, meaning they would need to eat the contract of Rivers or Knight plus pay the new guy.

I been monitoring this site fairly regularly hoping to see Wolves sign someone. At this point I will be happy to see Walker, Wall or Thomas the NBA TV analysis. Just wondering, does a player we sign now qualify for the play-in/play-off?

GopherIt! wrote:

shrink wrote:I would even add one more biggie: Mike Conley’s influence on Ant.

I think right now, everyone recognizes that this is Ant’s team, and it will only reach championship caliber if Ant becomes a superstar. Because of this, every move we make has one eye on developing Ant. People say that since Conley knows how to play well with Gobert, he helps winning now by maximizing Rudy, and that is true. But since Rudy is here for the long haul, there is no better person to show Ant how to plat with Rudy than Conley.

One of Ant’s special gifts is that he wants to absorb as much knowledge as possible, which is why he says Ricky Rubio was so important to his rookie success. It’s important with an impressionable kid that we get the right voices whispering in his ear, and we definitely want that voice to b Conley’s over DLo’s. Conley is a consummate professional, putting in all the work off the court and on it, on both sides of the ball. He has had a long career being consistently good to great. Did you know he’s played 15 seasons and never gotten a technical foul?!? Or that he has won the NBA Sportsmanship Award three times. We want this guy rubbing off on Ant as soon as possible, to help him have along and successful career.

Exactly. The laker fan kept going on about Mike’s age as of it were a detriment. When in fact his age is a benefit for the aforementioned reasons you have given. He has a video game mindset about trades. He keep going on about age, ppg, ast, etc. He’s not looking at the experience, professionalism, leadership, on/off court success, and chemistry Mike brings to Minnesota and specifically how huge that is for an impressionable 21yo budding superstar like Ant.

Conley is great for the culture, that much has been apparent since the trade.
But he also needs other effective scorers/shooters around him to drive the bus.
If he's your first or 2nd option your team is in real trouble. Even 3rd is not ideal.
That's been why the team has really struggled to be efficient since the trade.
He can get guys where they need to be and hit open shots, but he's not creating anything off the dribble, he wasn't that guy at 25 years old either.

When you've got guys like NAW, Prince, Reid, Gobert trying to create offense and Kyle Anderson is your best playmaker your team is in real trouble.