Upcoming CBA drama could be an issue

[winforlose]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268665/NBA-Some-Owners-Seeking-More-Punitive-Luxury-Tax-System-In-New-CBA

Quick summary: Possible we see tougher luxury tax penalties without a hard cap. This means small markets like us cannot sustain the luxury tax while big markets can.

[m2002brian]

Hard cap is and always has been the only answer

[Klomp]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268665/NBA-Some-Owners-Seeking-More-Punitive-Luxury-Tax-System-In-New-CBA

Quick summary: Possible we see tougher luxury tax penalties without a hard cap. This means small markets like us cannot sustain the luxury tax while big markets can.

There is nothing to indicate that this only goes against small market teams. It's more to do with how conservative or aggressive ownership groups are. While yes, small market owners tend to be more conservative, it's not a hard-fast rule.

[winforlose]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268665/NBA-Some-Owners-Seeking-More-Punitive-Luxury-Tax-System-In-New-CBA

Quick summary: Possible we see tougher luxury tax penalties without a hard cap. This means small markets like us cannot sustain the luxury tax while big markets can.

There is nothing to indicate that this only goes against small market teams. It's more to do with how conservative or aggressive ownership groups are. While yes, small market owners tend to be more conservative, it's not a hard-fast rule.

It’s more about revenue in and cost out. GSW can pay 200 million in the current climate (as can LAL,) because their fan base can support higher ticket costs, concession costs, and because the big market means national tv money and therefore more merchandise sold. Small markets have to generate enough revenue to make the enterprise profitable after costs. Unless small markets start getting a lot more national attention, I don’t see how they can compete with big market teams. Unless the profit sharing mechanics are considerably altered/adjusted.

[shrink]

Two facts from last year.

Minnesota’s average ticket price rose 57%, which was one of the biggest increases in the NBA.

Minnesota’s average ticket price was $91, lowest in the NBA. All the rest were over $100, led by GSW ($589) and LAL ($562).

I know ticket sales aren’t our primary revenue source. Half our money comes from the NBA and maybe only 20% comes from the Arena side (tickets, concessions, parking, etc). But the big difference in ticket prices between us and GSW and LAL show us that our product isn’t nearly in as much demand. Maybe that changes a little this year, since I think we have a very interesting team and a likely winner, but it’s clear we aren’t on equal footing.

One concern for me is that higher luxury taxes and big spenders does’t just mean a difference in competitive advantage, it also means a larger cut of those luxury taxes to the teams that stay under the lux. For many years, the cut was generally only $2-3 mil, and it didn’t strongly discourage owners like Taylor from spending over the lux is they had a potential winner (which I admit we rarely had). Several owners in markets our size and smaller NEVER went over the lux, to add those revenues. If that number rises to $15-20 mil, is that going to make some smaller markets always stay under the lux? I’m not saying we don’t need more punitive lux taxes to slow down the spending of teams like GSW and LAC, but can we find a high enough number that does that, and still is accepted by the Players Union? I have my doubts. I am glad though that our ownership is going from one billionaire to another!

[winforlose]

Two facts from last year.

Minnesota’s average ticket price rose 57%, which was one of the biggest increases in the NBA.

Minnesota’s average ticket price was $91, lowest in the NBA. All the rest were over $100, led by GSW ($589) and LAL ($562).

I know ticket sales aren’t our primary revenue source. Half our money comes from the NBA and maybe only 20% comes from the Arena side (tickets, concessions, parking, etc). But the big difference in ticket prices between us and GSW and LAL show us that our product isn’t nearly in as much demand. Maybe that changes a little this year, since I think we have a very interesting team and a likely winner, but it’s clear we aren’t on equal footing.

One concern for me is that higher luxury taxes and big spenders does’t just mean a difference in competitive advantage, it also means a larger cut of those luxury taxes to the teams that stay under the lux. For many years, the cut was generally only $2-3 mil, and it didn’t strongly discourage owners like Taylor from spending over the lux is they had a potential winner (which I admit we rarely had). Several owners in markets our size and smaller NEVER went over the lux, to add those revenues. If that number rises to $15-20 mil, is that going to make some smaller markets always stay under the lux? I’m not saying we don’t need more punitive lux taxes to slow down the spending of teams like GSW and LAC, but can we find a high enough number that does that, and still is accepted by the Players Union? I have my doubts. I am glad though that our ownership is going from one billionaire to another!

Chase center holds 18,064 fans. TC holds 19,356 fans. All else being equal a sold out game earns GSW $10,639,696. We earn $1,761,396. That is $8,878,290 per game. If both teams sold out every home game (41 games,) this equals $364,009,890. That doesn’t account for concessions, playoff tickets, or parking.

[Klomp]

Two facts from last year.

Minnesota’s average ticket price rose 57%, which was one of the biggest increases in the NBA.

Minnesota’s average ticket price was $91, lowest in the NBA. All the rest were over $100, led by GSW ($589) and LAL ($562).

I know ticket sales aren’t our primary revenue source. Half our money comes from the NBA and maybe only 20% comes from the Arena side (tickets, concessions, parking, etc). But the big difference in ticket prices between us and GSW and LAL show us that our product isn’t nearly in as much demand. Maybe that changes a little this year, since I think we have a very interesting team and a likely winner, but it’s clear we aren’t on equal footing.

One concern for me is that higher luxury taxes and big spenders does’t just mean a difference in competitive advantage, it also means a larger cut of those luxury taxes to the teams that stay under the lux. For many years, the cut was generally only $2-3 mil, and it didn’t strongly discourage owners like Taylor from spending over the lux is they had a potential winner (which I admit we rarely had). Several owners in markets our size and smaller NEVER went over the lux, to add those revenues. If that number rises to $15-20 mil, is that going to make some smaller markets always stay under the lux? I’m not saying we don’t need more punitive lux taxes to slow down the spending of teams like GSW and LAC, but can we find a high enough number that does that, and still is accepted by the Players Union? I have my doubts. I am glad though that our ownership is going from one billionaire to another!

Chase center holds 18,064 fans. TC holds 19,356 fans. All else being equal a sold out game earns GSW $10,639,696. We earn $1,761,396. That is $8,878,290 per game. If both teams sold out every game $728,019,780. That doesn’t account for concessions, playoff tickets, or parking.

I appreciate all of the numbers guys, but WFL every team only has 41 home games, not 82. Cut that last number in half.

[winforlose]

Two facts from last year.

Minnesota’s average ticket price rose 57%, which was one of the biggest increases in the NBA.

Minnesota’s average ticket price was $91, lowest in the NBA. All the rest were over $100, led by GSW ($589) and LAL ($562).

I know ticket sales aren’t our primary revenue source. Half our money comes from the NBA and maybe only 20% comes from the Arena side (tickets, concessions, parking, etc). But the big difference in ticket prices between us and GSW and LAL show us that our product isn’t nearly in as much demand. Maybe that changes a little this year, since I think we have a very interesting team and a likely winner, but it’s clear we aren’t on equal footing.

One concern for me is that higher luxury taxes and big spenders does’t just mean a difference in competitive advantage, it also means a larger cut of those luxury taxes to the teams that stay under the lux. For many years, the cut was generally only $2-3 mil, and it didn’t strongly discourage owners like Taylor from spending over the lux is they had a potential winner (which I admit we rarely had). Several owners in markets our size and smaller NEVER went over the lux, to add those revenues. If that number rises to $15-20 mil, is that going to make some smaller markets always stay under the lux? I’m not saying we don’t need more punitive lux taxes to slow down the spending of teams like GSW and LAC, but can we find a high enough number that does that, and still is accepted by the Players Union? I have my doubts. I am glad though that our ownership is going from one billionaire to another!

Chase center holds 18,064 fans. TC holds 19,356 fans. All else being equal a sold out game earns GSW $10,639,696. We earn $1,761,396. That is $8,878,290 per game. If both teams sold out every game $728,019,780. That doesn’t account for concessions, playoff tickets, or parking.

I appreciate all of the numbers guys, but WFL every team only has 41 home games, not 82. Cut that last number in half.

Spot on will fix in the original post.

[KGdaBom]

The revenue disparity is insane. To me anybody who can afford $600 per ticket to watch an athletic event has to be rich as hell. IMO it's a shame that only the superwealthy can afford to go to Warriors and Lakers games.

[Klomp]

Two facts from last year.

Minnesota’s average ticket price rose 57%, which was one of the biggest increases in the NBA.

Minnesota’s average ticket price was $91, lowest in the NBA. All the rest were over $100, led by GSW ($589) and LAL ($562).

Comparing nosebleed preseason tickets, one charges $10 and the other $102.

[winforlose]

Hard cap is and always has been the only answer

It is the best answer. Another one is to examine teams final profits after all expenses and sharing then mold a tax system around those numbers. Basically small market teams get more cap space and more room in the tax to make moves before getting clobbered. Meanwhile big market teams have a lower cap and higher tax penalties. In a way it is advanced profit share above and beyond what is already being done. Teams like GSW can continue to outspend everyone without a crazy advantage long term.

[shrink]

Hard cap is and always has been the only answer

It is the best answer. Another one is to examine teams final profits after all expenses and sharing then mold a tax system around those numbers. Basically small market teams get more cap space and more room in the tax to make moves before getting clobbered. Meanwhile big market teams have a lower cap and higher tax penalties. In a way it is advanced profit share above and beyond what is already being done. Teams like GSW can continue to outspend everyone without a crazy advantage long term.

The Players Union would never agree to a hard cap, especially now with so much money available, and owners willing to spend.

[Battletrigger]

Two facts from last year.

Minnesota’s average ticket price rose 57%, which was one of the biggest increases in the NBA.

Minnesota’s average ticket price was $91, lowest in the NBA. All the rest were over $100, led by GSW ($589) and LAL ($562).

I know ticket sales aren’t our primary revenue source. Half our money comes from the NBA and maybe only 20% comes from the Arena side (tickets, concessions, parking, etc). But the big difference in ticket prices between us and GSW and LAL show us that our product isn’t nearly in as much demand. Maybe that changes a little this year, since I think we have a very interesting team and a likely winner, but it’s clear we aren’t on equal footing.

One concern for me is that higher luxury taxes and big spenders does’t just mean a difference in competitive advantage, it also means a larger cut of those luxury taxes to the teams that stay under the lux. For many years, the cut was generally only $2-3 mil, and it didn’t strongly discourage owners like Taylor from spending over the lux is they had a potential winner (which I admit we rarely had). Several owners in markets our size and smaller NEVER went over the lux, to add those revenues. If that number rises to $15-20 mil, is that going to make some smaller markets always stay under the lux? I’m not saying we don’t need more punitive lux taxes to slow down the spending of teams like GSW and LAC, but can we find a high enough number that does that, and still is accepted by the Players Union? I have my doubts. I am glad though that our ownership is going from one billionaire to another!

91usd is for only one game or one kind of subscription that includes all month or something similar?

[Klomp]

91usd is for only one game or one kind of subscription that includes all month or something similar?

One game, I believe

[Battletrigger]

91usd is for only one game or one kind of subscription that includes all month or something similar?

One game, I believe

Wow.

That's insane, so if you like two or more sports you have to waste 200+ USD between NBA and NHL only for one game each.

I have seen in good seat my local football team against Manchester United or AC Milán in Champions League for 30 or 40 bucks.

The premium subscription cost 50€ month some years ago and if we talk about basket, I have seen it even cheaper.

[Colbinii]

91usd is for only one game or one kind of subscription that includes all month or something similar?

One game, I believe

Wow.

That's insane, so if you like two or more sports you have to waste 200+ USD between NBA and NHL only for one game each.

I have seen in good seat my local football team against Manchester United or AC Milán in Champions League for 30 or 40 bucks.

The premium subscription cost 50€ month some years ago and if we talk about basket, I have seen it even cheaper.

Keep in mind average is heavily skewed and Median would be a much better measure of ticket prices.

Ticket prices increase exponentially from nose bleeds up to court side.

[Klomp]

One game, I believe

Wow.

That's insane, so if you like two or more sports you have to waste 200+ USD between NBA and NHL only for one game each.

I have seen in good seat my local football team against Manchester United or AC Milán in Champions League for 30 or 40 bucks.

The premium subscription cost 50€ month some years ago and if we talk about basket, I have seen it even cheaper.

Keep in mind average is heavily skewed and Median would be a much better measure of ticket prices.

Ticket prices increase exponentially from nose bleeds up to court side.

This is especially true when you consider GS has a brand new arena and Target Center is one of the most outdated. Not only about courtside seats, but suites too.

[KGdaBom]

Wow.

That's insane, so if you like two or more sports you have to waste 200+ USD between NBA and NHL only for one game each.

I have seen in good seat my local football team against Manchester United or AC Milán in Champions League for 30 or 40 bucks.

The premium subscription cost 50€ month some years ago and if we talk about basket, I have seen it even cheaper.

Keep in mind average is heavily skewed and Median would be a much better measure of ticket prices.

Ticket prices increase exponentially from nose bleeds up to court side.

This is especially true when you consider GS has a brand new arena and Target Center is one of the most outdated. Not only about courtside seats, but suites too.

I watched a game from a Target center suite. Outdated or not I loved it.