The Official Rudy Gobert thread

[shrink]

I was surprised that when I went looking for a Rudy Gobert thread, we were still using the “Wolves Trade for Gobert” thread, and the last post was in October! It’s funny how people outside of MIN only want to talk about Rudy and his fit with KAT, but we just talk about him in passing, in game threads, etc. It seemed like we needed a new thread.

First thing I wanted to say is that Rudy hasn’t been awful - many of our problems have come from our players getting used to playing with the unique style of Gobert. Yes, Rudy’s blocks are down, and other factors are down a little, but he’s still #3 in the NBA in RB, and #2 in FG%/eFG%/TS%. You have a double-double (14-12) guy like that, you learn to make it work.

It seems though that his teammates aren’t figuring it out — for example, team rebounding.

Rudy is historically great at defending the rim, and opponents have one of the lowest FG% against him of all time. He doesn’t need to get a block to make players alter their shot. But more than that, Rudy gets opponents to take less, high percentage shots at the rim, opting for more midrangers and outside shots. What does this mean for the team? More long rebounds. Unfortunately that hasn’t seemed to register with our guards and small forwards, who simultaneously don’t get into position for those boards, and also don’t get back and are beaten in transition!

That isn’t Rudy’s fault, and it’s to his credit he can even get 12 boards, and has 4, 20 rebound games. If his teammates just get an average amount of those rebounds, we suddenly would be winning rebounding margins, instead of getting beaten so often.

[Calinks]

It really annoys me how they sold this trade as a seamless fit. We have been horrible in regards to figuring out how to maximize Rudy. People also were saying that we had better teammates around Rudy, he had the best defenders he has ever had, etc. None of that is true. This has been a really bad fit and it's not even the KAT problem like everyone guessed, the whole team is really poorly suited to play with him and the scheme is not working.

[winforlose]

It really annoys me how they sold this trade as a seamless fit. We have been horrible in regards to figuring out how to maximize Rudy. People also were saying that we had better teammates around Rudy, he had the best defenders he has ever had, etc. None of that is true. This has been a really bad fit and it's not even the KAT problem like everyone guessed, the whole team is really poorly suited to play with him and the scheme is not working.

Finch, Dlo, missing Bev, Ant not playing D consistently, KAT not figuring his defensive role early, on and on. Excuses or reasons can try to make sense of this, but at the end of the day, we got worse by adding a superior player. That should not happen. In theory, Dlo and Ant should be feasting off of PNR, and our defense should be much better at controlling the paint. I was clearly wrong as this team just doesn’t seem to be figuring it out anytime soon. This is the Wolves and frankly the Minnesota curse. We get glimmers of hope to make us emotionally invest, then ineptitude strikes and we SUCK AGAIN (note this was not a water boy quote, but it could be if you add quotation marks.)

[Calinks]

From Reddit.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Rookie-Mistake]

This trade makes me feel ill.


Sent from my SM-G991B using RealGM mobile app

[shrink]

I sometimes wonder about the people that can’t appreciate what the three time NBA Defensive Player of the Year does for a team.

I also wonder about people who don’t know the difference between posting in a trade thread and a Gobert thread. Guys, it’s six days before the Trade Deadline. You can’t do your whining about Gobert or the Gobert trade eight months ago somewhere else?

[Baseline81]

I sometimes wonder about the people that can’t appreciate what the three time NBA Defensive Player of the Year does for a team.

Problem is, shrink, we have not seen that underlined player often enough.

[slick21]

I guarantee you we would not be 28-26 right now if the only thing we did differently was not do the trade. We would probably be below .500 right now, which this season is the difference between the No. 6 seed and missing the play-in tournament altogether.

We would easily be one of the worst team, in a season without both Towns and Rudy.

I have no issues with Rudy’s “versatility” defensively if we trade for a point-of-attack defender next to Ant. He guards the opponent’s best guard, McDaniels guards the best forward, and Rudy freakin’ Gobert defends the rim? That’s the best defensive team in the league.

We are 21-23 when Gobert plays this season and 7-3 when he does not. We just beat the defending champs without him or KAT.
We suffocated them defensively in the 3rd/4th quarter and OT, a top 5 offense that runs incredibly complex actions.

This is an incredibly terrible take.
And that is before even factoring in how much better this team would be if it included Patrick Beverly, Jared Vanderbilt, Malik Beasley, and Walker Kessler.
This is indeed one of the worst trades of all time. There is no changing that.
We gave up once in a generation superstar trade capital for a big man who cannot shoot, dribble, or pass, blocks fewer than 2 shots per game, and makes 40 million dollars.
At this point its just hoping the team Gels with Rudy and somehow makes the team better enough defensively when he is on the court to overcome his very very obvious shortcomings.

At this point I think I am more bummed by how good Walker Kessler already is and could become in the future than owing the 4 picks plus a swap. If we had just stuck with the status quo we could have had everything we wanted from Rudy on a dirt cheap #22 pick rookie scale deal plus likely a rookie contract extension for potentially the next 8-9 years.

Please enlighten me what Rudy does that Walker Kessler cannot already do.
Kessler already walls up like a veteran and uses his length to block shots without swatting.

Because I've watched every game Rudy has played for the Wolves and I'm less than impressed with his defensive instincts, I see a guy who gets by on incredible length more than anything and the BBIQ and agility are average at best.

This is a great post. Sometimes the truth hurts...It was a highly regrettable trade for all of the reasons laid out here, not to mention the chemistry that Beverly, Vando, and even Beasley provided.

If we could recoup 2 1st round picks and a few good players, I would cut my losses at the deadline or in the offseason and move Rudy.

[shrink]

Here ya go, you lazy bastards. A place to talk about Rudy Gobert!

Who’d have thought we’d have a thread on him?!?

[shrink]

Mods, can you move most of these posts to the appropriate thread, so the conversation isn’t stolen away from .. trade talk?

[shrink]

I guarantee you we would not be 28-26 right now if the only thing we did differently was not do the trade. We would probably be below .500 right now, which this season is the difference between the No. 6 seed and missing the play-in tournament altogether.

We would easily be one of the worst team, in a season without both Towns and Rudy.

I have no issues with Rudy’s “versatility” defensively if we trade for a point-of-attack defender next to Ant. He guards the opponent’s best guard, McDaniels guards the best forward, and Rudy freakin’ Gobert defends the rim? That’s the best defensive team in the league.

We are 21-23 when Gobert plays this season and 7-3 when he does not. We just beat the defending champs without him or KAT.
We suffocated them defensively in the 3rd/4th quarter and OT, a top 5 offense that runs incredibly complex actions.

This is an incredibly terrible take.
And that is before even factoring in how much better this team would be if it included Patrick Beverly, Jared Vanderbilt, Malik Beasley, and Walker Kessler.
This is indeed one of the worst trades of all time. There is no changing that.
We gave up once in a generation superstar trade capital for a big man who cannot shoot, dribble, or pass, blocks fewer than 2 shots per game, and makes 40 million dollars.
At this point its just hoping the team Gels with Rudy and somehow makes the team better enough defensively when he is on the court to overcome his very very obvious shortcomings.

At this point I think I am more bummed by how good Walker Kessler already is and could become in the future than owing the 4 picks plus a swap. If we had just stuck with the status quo we could have had everything we wanted from Rudy on a dirt cheap #22 pick rookie scale deal plus likely a rookie contract extension for potentially the next 8-9 years.

Please enlighten me what Rudy does that Walker Kessler cannot already do.
Kessler already walls up like a veteran and uses his length to block shots without swatting.

Because I've watched every game Rudy has played for the Wolves and I'm less than impressed with his defensive instincts, I see a guy who gets by on incredible length more than anything and the BBIQ and agility are average at best.

My first thought when I read this post was that you were being sarcastic, and teasing someone.

Now I think you posted drunk.

You put a ton of weight into not having Rudy, when we beat GSW. Who we were behind by 11, who simply went cold in the last eight minutes of one quarter? And we still needed overtime?

And Rudy Gobert has suddenly forgotten all the BB IQ that made him the best defensive player in the NBA, and now is just a tall guy? What causes that giant decrease besides massive brain injury?

Kessler has played half a season as a rookie. If you are such a fan of small samples that 8 minutes in a GSW game, midweek in late January can dismiss years of Rudy’s defensive statistics and accolades, then I suppose half a season from a rookie is tremendously significant to you. Hey - Kessler did really great against out our third, fourth and fifth string centers - two guys playing for the minimum and a two-way! Sure - that proves he’s just as good as Rudy Gobert, who will get Hall of Fame buzz for re-writing NBA’s defensive record book!

People have strong feelings about Gobert, and the Gobert trade. But you can’t toss aside Gobert’s long history of tremendous play because tiny samples fit your feelings better. Rudy did not have a massive head injury, he is playing with an entirely new team for the first time ever, and defense is a team effort. It’s time for people to stop this weird scapegoating because you don’t like the price of the trade.

[btw, I may not respond this week here. I prefer to focus on trades until the deadline. But I’ll get back to you later)

[Domejandro]

Mods, can you move most of these posts to the appropriate thread, so the conversation isn’t stolen away from .. trade talk?

EDIT: Done!

[Nick K]

I sometimes wonder about the people that can’t appreciate what the three time NBA Defensive Player of the Year does for a team.

I also wonder about people who don’t know the difference between posting in a trade thread and a Gobert thread. Guys, it’s six days before the Trade Deadline. You can’t do your whining about Gobert or the Gobert trade eight months ago somewhere else?

Finch said last night that in the last 7 weeks when Rudy plays we rank top 3 in defense and 28th in the league when he doesn't play. It's dramatic what he brings. Throw out the 1st month of the season. That was one big experiment.

Rudy is coming into being a force on defense if we use him right and don't expect too much from him offensively. Outside of dunks at the basket we don't need him offensively for anything else. Finch is figuring him out.

These trade talks of trading Kat and Rudy for picks makes me want to throw up.

[_AIJ_]

I just hope he gets healthy. Like it or not, he is a very good defensive player

[Klomp]

Please enlighten me what Rudy does that Walker Kessler cannot already do.
Kessler already walls up like a veteran and uses his length to block shots without swatting.

Because I've watched every game Rudy has played for the Wolves and I'm less than impressed with his defensive instincts, I see a guy who gets by on incredible length more than anything and the BBIQ and agility are average at best.

I can't speak to Kessler's impact because I don't watch him on a nightly basis, but I've literally seen Gobert's presence in the paint alter a guard's decision-making as he drives into the lane. That's not something that can be quantified.

Walker has been very good at blocking shots early in his career. You know who else was? Shawn Bradley. But while Bradley had great timing and shot-blocking instincts, he never put a fear or hesitation into the opponent. We'll see if Walker develops to where opponents fear him, but as of now I think a lot of guys are still purposely attacking him.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

So what are we down to in the trade return?
-Malik Beasley: He is what he's always been, but shooting just 36% on 3-pointers.
-Patrick Beverley: Utah immediately swapped for Horton-Tucker, who is averaging just 15 mpg.
-Jarred Vanderbilt: "Hasn't had the impact hoped for"
-Leandro Bolmaro: 100% non-factor.
-Walker Kessler: Has been discussed ad nauseum

Basically, Utah's return and how the trade should be looked at is tied to Kessler and the 1st round picks. That's really it. Nobody else has really impacted the team enough to swing the trade value drastically.

Also keep in mind, a key difference between Gobert and Kessler is that Gobert was the centerpiece of a .600+ team for basically six consecutive years. Kessler has not had that impact yet, and only time will tell if he will develop into that level of impact.

[Baseline81]

So what are we down to in the trade return?
-Malik Beasley: He is what he's always been, but shooting just 36% on 3-pointers.
-Patrick Beverley: Utah immediately swapped for Horton-Tucker, who is averaging just 15 mpg.
-Jarred Vanderbilt: "Hasn't had the impact hoped for"
-Leandro Bolmaro: 100% non-factor.
-Walker Kessler: Has been discussed ad nauseum

Basically, Utah's return and how the trade should be looked at is tied to Kessler and the 1st round picks. That's really it. Nobody else has really impacted the team enough to swing the trade value drastically.

Also keep in mind, a key difference between Gobert and Kessler is that Gobert was the centerpiece of a .600+ team for basically six consecutive years. Kessler has not had that impact yet, and only time will tell if he will develop into that level of impact.

My issue has always been what the team gave up in future assets.

I wasn't thrilled when the Wolves drafted Kessler, but I understood the reasoning behind it. Burning a first round pick to see if Towns can play PF next to a C makes sense. What doesn't is pushing four several first rounders into the middle of the table.

[Neeva]

So what are we down to in the trade return?
-Malik Beasley: He is what he's always been, but shooting just 36% on 3-pointers.
-Patrick Beverley: Utah immediately swapped for Horton-Tucker, who is averaging just 15 mpg.
-Jarred Vanderbilt: "Hasn't had the impact hoped for"
-Leandro Bolmaro: 100% non-factor.
-Walker Kessler: Has been discussed ad nauseum

Basically, Utah's return and how the trade should be looked at is tied to Kessler and the 1st round picks. That's really it. Nobody else has really impacted the team enough to swing the trade value drastically.

Also keep in mind, a key difference between Gobert and Kessler is that Gobert was the centerpiece of a .600+ team for basically six consecutive years. Kessler has not had that impact yet, and only time will tell if he will develop into that level of impact.

My issue has always been what the team gave up in future assets.

I wasn't thrilled when the Wolves drafted Kessler, but I understood the reasoning behind it. Burning a first round pick to see if Towns can play PF next to a C makes sense. What doesn't is pushing four several first rounders into the middle of the table.

Yep they probably went two first round picks too far but lets **** win a title and no one will end up caring about picks lost.

[Klomp]

Yep they probably went two first round picks too far but lets **** win a title and no one will end up caring about picks lost.

Let's also consider the fact that this is an all-NBA player who hadn't requested a trade, when we determine how much should have been paid.