Gobert Vs Conley: Who makes a bigger impact?

[funkatron101]

I think the regular season record for when one of these two players is out is both 3-3.

But when it comes to overall impact, who creates a larger deficit in their absence? Feel free to use win shares, plus/minus or even your "gut" in your reasoning.

[shrink]

Ant, in his typical fun Ant style way, explained how Conley unlocks Ant

"We got Mike Conley back, that was it… Just efficient, he's always gonna make the right play," Ant said after the game. "It's a big difference, last game, I was trying to get people involved and be aggressive but when Mike playing, I don't have to worry about getting people involved. That's his job."

Moreover, Conley (and Towns) are the only two Wolves that can hit Rudy on a pick-and-roll.

[KGdaBom]

Rudy is a better player than Conley and his impact is bigger. I know it's cool to be on the Conley bandwagon. Rudy is uncool, but he's the DPotY.

[younggunsmn]

Mike for 2 reasons:

1. Much less replaceable and no depth behind him
2. Leadership impact on his teammates.
You can make an argument for Rudy directing the defense, but Mike just touches so many intangibles like composure and attitude and the way he can get our star player to buy in.

When Mike is out it is also much much harder for Rudy offensively as no one else can really run a decent pick and roll with him.

[Note30]

Rudy is a better player than Conley and his impact is bigger. I know it's cool to be on the Conley bandwagon. Rudy is uncool, but he's the DPotY.

Who's letting Jokic absolutely manhandle him this series. Fake DPOY.

[KGdaBom]

Rudy is a better player than Conley and his impact is bigger. I know it's cool to be on the Conley bandwagon. Rudy is uncool, but he's the DPotY.

Who's letting Jokic absolutely manhandle him this series. Fake DPOY.

Ok. You give the DPotY to Wemby. The real one. LMMFAO.

[funkatron101]

Ant, in his typical fun Ant style way, explained how Conley unlocks Ant

"We got Mike Conley back, that was it… Just efficient, he's always gonna make the right play," Ant said after the game. "It's a big difference, last game, I was trying to get people involved and be aggressive but when Mike playing, I don't have to worry about getting people involved. That's his job."

Moreover, Conley (and Towns) are the only two Wolves that can hit Rudy on a pick-and-roll.

Yeah, this post was inspired by Ant's comments. I'm glad you posted them.

The metrics will obviously favor Gobert, but there is certainly something to be said about a player having the leadership, poise and composure to dictate the pace and tone of a game. Conley makes players better, in game.

[Note30]

Rudy is a better player than Conley and his impact is bigger. I know it's cool to be on the Conley bandwagon. Rudy is uncool, but he's the DPotY.

Who's letting Jokic absolutely manhandle him this series. Fake DPOY.

Ok. You give the DPotY to Wemby. The real one. LMMFAO.

He's even worse.

I don't know whose the best but it has to be a player that can guard 1-5, and play good team defense. If you can't guard someone individually maybe you're just not that good of a defender. And it's not like Jokic is a small PG he plays the same position as Gobert.

[TimberKat]

For the season? For game 6? Are we looking at their contract value too?

Game 6 Gobert is what we want from him. For most of the season he delivered. In order for a team to maximize his value, you have to find him and pass to him. Team did that and he was great. No one can guard Jokic great all six games, that is why he is the MVP. Like Ben Wallace is supposed to limit MJ or Shaq to 10 pts? So, there is no doubt for the season and put the money aside, Gobert has greater impact. However you need Conley to maximize Gobert's impact.

[KGdaBom]

Who's letting Jokic absolutely manhandle him this series. Fake DPOY.

Ok. You give the DPotY to Wemby. The real one. LMMFAO.

He's even worse.

I don't know whose the best but it has to be a player that can guard 1-5, and play good team defense. If you can't guard someone individually maybe you're just not that good of a defender. And it's not like Jokic is a small PG he plays the same position as Gobert.

How many players DPotY or not have success defending the MVP. I'm sure that when Jordan was winning his MVPs and LeBron's MVPs the DPotY totally shut them down right. It's a ridiculous argument against somebody deserving the DPotY. Gobert has won 4 of this award and deserved it every single time.

[KGdaBom]

For the season? For game 6? Are we looking at their contract value too?

Game 6 Gobert is what we want from him. For most of the season he delivered. In order for a team to maximize his value, you have to find him and pass to him. Team did that and he was great. No one can guard Jokic great all six games, that is why he is the MVP. Like Ben Wallace is supposed to limit MJ or Shaq to 10 pts? So, there is no doubt for the season and put the money aside, Gobert has greater impact. However you need Conley to maximize Gobert's impact.

1000% agreement, but Conley is cool and Rudy is uncool.

[Note30]

Ok. You give the DPotY to Wemby. The real one. LMMFAO.

He's even worse.

I don't know whose the best but it has to be a player that can guard 1-5, and play good team defense. If you can't guard someone individually maybe you're just not that good of a defender. And it's not like Jokic is a small PG he plays the same position as Gobert.

How many players DPotY or not have success defending the MVP. I'm sure that when Jordan was winning his MVPs and LeBron's MVPs the DPotY totally shut them down right. It's a ridiculous argument against somebody deserving the DPotY. Gobert has won 4 of this award and deserved it every single time.

I think the award is extremely poor reflection of actual defensive impact.

It's why despite being a solid player Gobert gets the overrated tag by the players poll.

He's not a bad defender, but for a guy who can't even guard his own position and his whole value is based on his help he's not measured on his ability to play all around defense.

He's extremely good at one aspect of defense and as soon as offensive schemes switch to exploit that he's practically useless. Which is what we saw in games, 3,4 and 5. Most teams don't set out to play that way during the regular season and it takes a lot of effort and practice to play that way. Hence the moniker of "playoff basketball".

He's a solid defensive player in the right scheme with the right personnel. But he's not versatile. He can't switch. He can't play effectively after a certain distance.

And as for what it's worth Andre Igoudala and Kawhi Leonard both won their FMVP for being able to successfully defend LeBron.

So while they weren't DPOY they were pretty good, and that brings me whole circle to my point. DPOY is a BS award.

[KGdaBom]

He's even worse.

I don't know whose the best but it has to be a player that can guard 1-5, and play good team defense. If you can't guard someone individually maybe you're just not that good of a defender. And it's not like Jokic is a small PG he plays the same position as Gobert.

How many players DPotY or not have success defending the MVP. I'm sure that when Jordan was winning his MVPs and LeBron's MVPs the DPotY totally shut them down right. It's a ridiculous argument against somebody deserving the DPotY. Gobert has won 4 of this award and deserved it every single time.

I think the award is extremely poor reflection of actual defensive impact.

It's why despite being a solid player Gobert gets the overrated tag by the players poll.

He's not a bad defender, but for a guy who can't even guard his own position and his whole value is based on his help he's not measured on his ability to play all around defense.

He's extremely good at one aspect of defense and as soon as offensive schemes switch to exploit that he's practically useless. Which is what we saw in games, 3,4 and 5. Most teams don't set out to play that way during the regular season and it takes a lot of effort and practice to play that way. Hence the moniker of "playoff basketball".

He's a solid defensive player in the right scheme with the right personnel. But he's not versatile. He can't switch. He can't play effectively after a certain distance.

And as for what it's worth Andre Igoudala and Kawhi Leonard both won their FMVP for being able to successfully defend LeBron.

So while they weren't DPOY they were pretty good, and that brings me whole circle to my point. DPOY is a BS award.

I disagree with your post 90%, but allow that 10% of it has merit. The year Iguodala won FMVP LeBron should have and it wasn't even close. Rudy won the DPotY 4 times for being the most impactful defender in the NBA and it's not a BS award.

For the first half of this season IMO Rudy was our MVP not Ant. Ant has got stronger down the stretch.

[BlacJacMac]

The year Iguodala won FMVP LeBron should have and it wasn't even close.

You would've given Finals MVP to a player on the losing team?

Has that ever happened?

[KGdaBom]

The year Iguodala won FMVP LeBron should have and it wasn't even close.

You would've given Finals MVP to a player on the losing team?

Has that ever happened?

I sure would have. I think it happened once. Yeah it was Jerry West in 1969. It should have happened twice. Yeah I know LeBron's team didn't win the finals so how could he have been more valuable blah blah blah.

[BlacJacMac]

The year Iguodala won FMVP LeBron should have and it wasn't even close.

You would've given Finals MVP to a player on the losing team?

Has that ever happened?

I sure would have. I think it happened once. Yeah it was Jerry West in 1969. It should have happened twice. Yeah I know LeBron's team didn't win the finals so how could he have been more valuable blah blah blah.

I don't care if he averaged 100 points and 50 rebounds. IMO, you can't be the finals MVP if you don't win the finals.

Hell, I wouldn't even want the award in that case. It would just be a constant reminder that you lost the Championship.

[KGdaBom]

You would've given Finals MVP to a player on the losing team?

Has that ever happened?

I sure would have. I think it happened once. Yeah it was Jerry West in 1969. It should have happened twice. Yeah I know LeBron's team didn't win the finals so how could he have been more valuable blah blah blah.

I don't care if he averaged 100 points and 50 rebounds. IMO, you can't be the finals MVP if you don't win the finals.

Hell, I wouldn't even want the award in that case. It would just be a constant reminder that you lost the Championship.

Our opinions are different. I would give the award to the player who played the best in the series. LeBron played by far the best. He can't win the series by himself, but he gave it a good try.

[KGdaBom]

I think the next time I see a thread/poll like this I just won't participate. All they do is cause division.

[younggunsmn]

Let me frame it this way, Mike Conley might be the best value non-rookie non-max contract in the NBA the next 2 seasons at about 10 million per year while Rudy will be making about 4.5 times as much.

Rudy was by far the best defender in the league when he was guarding all but 2 players last year:
Jokic and Embiid (maybe throw Zion in there too). He struggles against big heavyweight centers with girth.
Luckily there are only a couple of those guys left.
And there wasn't another big man faring much better against those 2 guys either, so it's really hard to make an argument against Jokic's performance in game 5 being disqualifying for Rudy.
Rudy himself bulldozed Wemby right off the court a few times and dunked right in his face.
Wemby has a long way to go to get to Rudy's level.
Davis and Bam's teams were only Play-In caliber.

As for playoff MVP, it always should go to a player on the winning team. Always.
The last scrub on the bench of the winning team would get my vote before the best player on the losing team.

Because TROPHIES ARE NOT FOR LOSERS.
Or they would create a special award for the best player on the losing team too.

[KGdaBom]

Let me frame it this way, Mike Conley might be the best value non-rookie non-max contract in the NBA the next 2 seasons at about 10 million per year while Rudy will be making about 4.5 times as much.

Rudy was by far the best defender in the league when he was guarding all but 2 players last year:
Jokic and Embiid (maybe throw Zion in there too). He struggles against big heavyweight centers with girth.
Luckily there are only a couple of those guys left.
And there wasn't another big man faring much better against those 2 guys either, so it's really hard to make an argument against Jokic's performance in game 5 being disqualifying for Rudy.
Rudy himself bulldozed Wemby right off the court a few times and dunked right in his face.
Wemby has a long way to go to get to Rudy's level.
Davis and Bam's teams were only Play-In caliber.

As for playoff MVP, it always should go to a player on the winning team. Always.
The last scrub on the bench of the winning team would get my vote before the best player on the losing team.

Because TROPHIES ARE NOT FOR LOSERS.
Or they would create a special award for the best player on the losing team too.

A lot of people think like you. All that matters to me is which player in the series played the best. I gave you a +1 for recognizing Rudy.