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So I am going old school and starting us off by suggesting we unleash the unicorns and “taste the rainbow.” For those of you who don’t spend a lot of time with unicorn and rainbow obsessed nieces, I am suggesting seeing more of Ant/Jaden/Karl/Naz/Rudy lineup this season. I am also good with Mike being used instead of one of Ant or Jaden. Thoughts?

Player (MPG)

Conley (26) Dillingham (20) NAW (2)
ANT (24) NAW (18) Shannon (6)
McDaniels (28) ANT (11) Shannon (9)
Towns (32) Reid (13) McDaniels (3)
Gobert (34) Reid (12) Towns (2)

Something like this barring injury. Shannon and Dillingham will have a much larger role than any of our previous younger players sans Edwards/McDaniels in recent years. It is vital to get them into the rotation and develop at an NBA level, define and discover what their skill-sets will and how are applied to a Title Contender.

I am optimisic one of Miller/Minott are able to soak up 5-10 minutes in the regular season and carve out a regular spot in the rotation. There is also some room for Jaylen Clark here to find a small role, but his skill-set overlaps a lot of NAW.

If Dillingham is slow out the gate, which could be expect, more ANT minutes as the lead-guard [Point Guard] is going to happen, which then opens up more minutes for Reid/Minott or Miller/McDaniels at the 4.

I'd rather see Ant, Shannon, McDaniels, Naz, and KAT, especially in transition where KAT is the trailer shooting that three from anywhere above the break. And if they end up not getting a shot in transition they still have a ton of cutting/shooting options in half-court.

Main idea: keep Towns, Conley and Gobert minutes under 30, keep pace high by giving more minutes to high energy guy such as Reid, TSJ, Miller and shot maker such as Dillingham.

Shannon role similar to Josh Green's in DAL who run in transition, fill open lanes, hit open corner threes
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JUHQWlsdiQ4

Dillingham role similar to Malik Monk's in SAC: pull up threes + passing


Minott: similar to Peyton Watson's in DEN: active rotations, rim protection, run transition


Conley (24) Dillingham (15) NAW (9)
ANT (32) NAW (13) Shannon (3)
McDaniels (30) Shannon (13) Minott (5)
Towns (30) Reid (12) Miller (6)
Gobert (30) Reid (18)

Garbage time: Garza-Miller-Minott-Clarke-Dillingham

Colbinii wrote:Player (MPG)

Conley (26) Dillingham (20) NAW (2)
ANT (24) NAW (18) Shannon (6)
McDaniels (28) ANT (11) Shannon (9)
Towns (32) Reid (13) McDaniels (3)
Gobert (34) Reid (12) Towns (2)

Something like this barring injury. Shannon and Dillingham will have a much larger role than any of our previous younger players sans Edwards/McDaniels in recent years. It is vital to get them into the rotation and develop at an NBA level, define and discover what their skill-sets will and how are applied to a Title Contender.

I am optimisic one of Miller/Minott are able to soak up 5-10 minutes in the regular season and carve out a regular spot in the rotation. There is also some room for Jaylen Clark here to find a small role, but his skill-set overlaps a lot of NAW.

If Dillingham is slow out the gate, which could be expect, more ANT minutes as the lead-guard [Point Guard] is going to happen, which then opens up more minutes for Reid/Minott or Miller/McDaniels at the 4.

Looks about right.

Colbinii wrote:Player (MPG)

Conley (26) Dillingham (20) NAW (2)
ANT (24) NAW (18) Shannon (6)
McDaniels (28) ANT (11) Shannon (9)
Towns (32) Reid (13) McDaniels (3)
Gobert (34) Reid (12) Towns (2)

Something like this barring injury. Shannon and Dillingham will have a much larger role than any of our previous younger players sans Edwards/McDaniels in recent years. It is vital to get them into the rotation and develop at an NBA level, define and discover what their skill-sets will and how are applied to a Title Contender.

I am optimisic one of Miller/Minott are able to soak up 5-10 minutes in the regular season and carve out a regular spot in the rotation. There is also some room for Jaylen Clark here to find a small role, but his skill-set overlaps a lot of NAW.

If Dillingham is slow out the gate, which could be expect, more ANT minutes as the lead-guard [Point Guard] is going to happen, which then opens up more minutes for Reid/Minott or Miller/McDaniels at the 4.

So I have questions.

1. Why is it important that TSJ get minutes over Minott if Minott is clearly better and more NBA ready than TSJ? The same goes for Miller? Why is it true that if the 27th overall pick takes a year to acclimate to the NBA before cracking a WCF rotation something has gone wrong?

2. What if it becomes clear that RD is not ready. Being picked number 6 didn’t make Culver anymore playable then being picked number 5 helped Kris Dunn. You make it sound like RD should immediately be a bucket, but we have seen guys who can score in college really struggle in the NBA (Nowell was a 44% 3 point shooter his rookie year in Iowa, but up here he was sub 20%.) Is winning less important than developing RD?

3. If we need more scoring and are okay with bad defense why not play Luka with KAT and Naz? Or Luka with KAT and Rudy? Luka may not be good for much, but he can in theory shoot. I mean if he cannot then we traded down from 37 to 53 for nothing, (the roster spot was opened for Garza.)

I think the notion of forcing RD and TSJ to contribute right away is great in theory, and unworkable in practice. They are what they are, and Finch will prioritize winning over developing them, as he should. We have two more chances at this and then everything goes to ****. I would rather maximize those chances with an elite 7 and the best free agents we can bring in, (and hopefully get something out of the young guys,) then put all are eggs on development over victory. But that is just me.

winforlose wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Player (MPG)

Conley (26) Dillingham (20) NAW (2)
ANT (24) NAW (18) Shannon (6)
McDaniels (28) ANT (11) Shannon (9)
Towns (32) Reid (13) McDaniels (3)
Gobert (34) Reid (12) Towns (2)

Something like this barring injury. Shannon and Dillingham will have a much larger role than any of our previous younger players sans Edwards/McDaniels in recent years. It is vital to get them into the rotation and develop at an NBA level, define and discover what their skill-sets will and how are applied to a Title Contender.

I am optimisic one of Miller/Minott are able to soak up 5-10 minutes in the regular season and carve out a regular spot in the rotation. There is also some room for Jaylen Clark here to find a small role, but his skill-set overlaps a lot of NAW.

If Dillingham is slow out the gate, which could be expect, more ANT minutes as the lead-guard [Point Guard] is going to happen, which then opens up more minutes for Reid/Minott or Miller/McDaniels at the 4.

So I have questions.

1. Why is it important that TSJ get minutes over Minott if Minott is clearly better and more NBA ready than TSJ? The same goes for Miller? Why is it true that if the 27th overall pick takes a year to acclimate to the NBA before cracking a WCF rotation something has gone wrong?

2. What if it becomes clear that RD is not ready. Being picked number 6 didn’t make Culver anymore playable then being picked number 5 helped Kris Dunn. You make it sound like RD should immediately be a bucket, but we have seen guys who can score in college really struggle in the NBA (Nowell was a 44% 3 point shooter his rookie year in Iowa, but up here he was sub 20%.) Is winning less important than developing RD?

3. If we need more scoring and are okay with bad defense why not play Luka with KAT and Naz? Or Luka with KAT and Rudy? Luka may not be good for much, but he can in theory shoot. I mean if he cannot then we traded down from 37 to 53 for nothing, (the roster spot was opened for Garza.)

I think the notion of forcing RD and TSJ to contribute right away is great in theory, and unworkable in practice. They are what they are, and Finch will prioritize winning over developing them, as he should. We have two more chances at this and then everything goes to ****. I would rather maximize those chances with an elite 7 and the best free agents we can bring in, (and hopefully get something out of the young guys,) then put all are eggs on development over victory. But that is just me.

1: I'm a fan of Minott, but IMO Shannon is clearly better than Minott and probably better than Miller. Shannon was a player of the year candidate before the false charges derailed him.

2: If it becomes clear that RD is not ready sure keep him on the pines. I really doubt it will become clear that he is not ready. Culver and Dunn were bad draft picks. I believe Dilly was a good one.

3: Luka is a bucket and I'm glad we kept him, however he will be way down the pecking order for rotation. Dillingham's talent despite the extremely bad defense should be enough to make him the backup PG. Hopefully Finch and the other coaches can coach him up and improve his defense. Nobody I know of is forcing RD and TSJ to play. They will get rotation minutes commensurate with their talent which I believe is high. I sure don't want to put development over victory. I think development will lead to victory.

KGdaBom wrote:

winforlose wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Player (MPG)

Conley (26) Dillingham (20) NAW (2)
ANT (24) NAW (18) Shannon (6)
McDaniels (28) ANT (11) Shannon (9)
Towns (32) Reid (13) McDaniels (3)
Gobert (34) Reid (12) Towns (2)

Something like this barring injury. Shannon and Dillingham will have a much larger role than any of our previous younger players sans Edwards/McDaniels in recent years. It is vital to get them into the rotation and develop at an NBA level, define and discover what their skill-sets will and how are applied to a Title Contender.

I am optimisic one of Miller/Minott are able to soak up 5-10 minutes in the regular season and carve out a regular spot in the rotation. There is also some room for Jaylen Clark here to find a small role, but his skill-set overlaps a lot of NAW.

If Dillingham is slow out the gate, which could be expect, more ANT minutes as the lead-guard [Point Guard] is going to happen, which then opens up more minutes for Reid/Minott or Miller/McDaniels at the 4.

So I have questions.

1. Why is it important that TSJ get minutes over Minott if Minott is clearly better and more NBA ready than TSJ? The same goes for Miller? Why is it true that if the 27th overall pick takes a year to acclimate to the NBA before cracking a WCF rotation something has gone wrong?

2. What if it becomes clear that RD is not ready. Being picked number 6 didn’t make Culver anymore playable then being picked number 5 helped Kris Dunn. You make it sound like RD should immediately be a bucket, but we have seen guys who can score in college really struggle in the NBA (Nowell was a 44% 3 point shooter his rookie year in Iowa, but up here he was sub 20%.) Is winning less important than developing RD?

3. If we need more scoring and are okay with bad defense why not play Luka with KAT and Naz? Or Luka with KAT and Rudy? Luka may not be good for much, but he can in theory shoot. I mean if he cannot then we traded down from 37 to 53 for nothing, (the roster spot was opened for Garza.)

I think the notion of forcing RD and TSJ to contribute right away is great in theory, and unworkable in practice. They are what they are, and Finch will prioritize winning over developing them, as he should. We have two more chances at this and then everything goes to ****. I would rather maximize those chances with an elite 7 and the best free agents we can bring in, (and hopefully get something out of the young guys,) then put all are eggs on development over victory. But that is just me.

1: I'm a fan of Minott, but IMO Shannon is clearly better than Minott and probably better than Miller. Shannon was a player of the year candidate before the false charges derailed him.

2: If it becomes clear that RD is not ready sure keep him on the pines. I really doubt it will become clear that he is not ready. Culver and Dunn were bad draft picks. I believe Dilly was a good one.

3: Luka is a bucket and I'm glad we kept him, however he will be way down the pecking order for rotation. Dillingham's talent despite the extremely bad defense should be enough to make him the backup PG. Nobody I know of is forcing RD and TSJ to play. They will get rotation minutes commensurate with their talent. I sure don't want to put development over victory. I think development will lead to victory.

I think signing Luka was a huge mistake. I think there are better more win now players who will be available and that Luka is not someone you would ever put in your rotation if you had a choice. We have 7 current rotation worthy players and a ton of development pieces who have a lot to prove before they can be trusted. Losing Kyle is addition by subtraction which I am fine with. Losing his money is something I am not fine with. We need to sign him at an expensive but reasonable price point and trade him at the first opportunity. Even if we get a TPE we could use that like MLE at the deadline to either get a buyout guy or maybe sneak a more productive role player on a multi year deal and help to ensure the future. As for Monte, letting him walk not only wastes a salary slot, weakens us at the PG position, and creates a massive problem if Mike quality slides this year or next year. But, it also has the nasty consequence of forcing RD to sink or swim at 19. If we are truly that worried about 10-20 or even 20-40 million at this point we will never get where we are going. The best teams spend what it costs to give themselves the best position to win a title.

winforlose wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Player (MPG)

Conley (26) Dillingham (20) NAW (2)
ANT (24) NAW (18) Shannon (6)
McDaniels (28) ANT (11) Shannon (9)
Towns (32) Reid (13) McDaniels (3)
Gobert (34) Reid (12) Towns (2)

Something like this barring injury. Shannon and Dillingham will have a much larger role than any of our previous younger players sans Edwards/McDaniels in recent years. It is vital to get them into the rotation and develop at an NBA level, define and discover what their skill-sets will and how are applied to a Title Contender.

I am optimisic one of Miller/Minott are able to soak up 5-10 minutes in the regular season and carve out a regular spot in the rotation. There is also some room for Jaylen Clark here to find a small role, but his skill-set overlaps a lot of NAW.

If Dillingham is slow out the gate, which could be expect, more ANT minutes as the lead-guard [Point Guard] is going to happen, which then opens up more minutes for Reid/Minott or Miller/McDaniels at the 4.

So I have questions.

1. Why is it important that TSJ get minutes over Minott if Minott is clearly better and more NBA ready than TSJ? The same goes for Miller? Why is it true that if the 27th overall pick takes a year to acclimate to the NBA before cracking a WCF rotation something has gone wrong?

2. What if it becomes clear that RD is not ready. Being picked number 6 didn’t make Culver anymore playable then being picked number 5 helped Kris Dunn. You make it sound like RD should immediately be a bucket, but we have seen guys who can score in college really struggle in the NBA (Nowell was a 44% 3 point shooter his rookie year in Iowa, but up here he was sub 20%.) Is winning less important than developing RD?

3. If we need more scoring and are okay with bad defense why not play Luka with KAT and Naz? Or Luka with KAT and Rudy? Luka may not be good for much, but he can in theory shoot. I mean if he cannot then we traded down from 37 to 53 for nothing, (the roster spot was opened for Garza.)

I think the notion of forcing RD and TSJ to contribute right away is great in theory, and unworkable in practice. They are what they are, and Finch will prioritize winning over developing them, as he should. We have two more chances at this and then everything goes to ****. I would rather maximize those chances with an elite 7 and the best free agents we can bring in, (and hopefully get something out of the young guys,) then put all are eggs on development over victory. But that is just me.

1) watching Minott in g-league this year I am kind of wondering what his role can be. Last summer he said he was working on his 3pt shot and defense. But from what I have seen he is not McDaniels type of PoA defender, and his shot is still questionable. Maybe he can play role of weakside defender? He put some weight though

2) big difference is that Rob can shoot 3s and pass while live dribbling. Something that Moore, Culver, Milton, Nowell cant. Maybe he is not ready, like Zach LaVine and Jamal Murray in their first year in NBA, when they both were 19yo rookies, but you still has to give them 15-20 minutes to develop

3) if we lose both Anderson and Morris, you have to play Dillingham and/or Shannon. Because it is not about simply scoring, outside of Edwards and Conley we wont have quality ballhandlers, and while Shannon is a mediocre ballhandler he was first offensive option in students, so Finch at least can integrate his on ball skills. For instance, Shannon often used screens to score as pick-n-roll ballhandler

It is not common, but we have seen rookies succeed in playoff teams. For instance, Lively, Christian Braun. I see your concerns and I find them legit. Thats why I believe that now it is Finch and coaching staff to get the most from rookies. Anderson, McLaughlin were Finch favourites, but it is time to move on.

minimus wrote:

winforlose wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Player (MPG)

Conley (26) Dillingham (20) NAW (2)
ANT (24) NAW (18) Shannon (6)
McDaniels (28) ANT (11) Shannon (9)
Towns (32) Reid (13) McDaniels (3)
Gobert (34) Reid (12) Towns (2)

Something like this barring injury. Shannon and Dillingham will have a much larger role than any of our previous younger players sans Edwards/McDaniels in recent years. It is vital to get them into the rotation and develop at an NBA level, define and discover what their skill-sets will and how are applied to a Title Contender.

I am optimisic one of Miller/Minott are able to soak up 5-10 minutes in the regular season and carve out a regular spot in the rotation. There is also some room for Jaylen Clark here to find a small role, but his skill-set overlaps a lot of NAW.

If Dillingham is slow out the gate, which could be expect, more ANT minutes as the lead-guard [Point Guard] is going to happen, which then opens up more minutes for Reid/Minott or Miller/McDaniels at the 4.

So I have questions.

1. Why is it important that TSJ get minutes over Minott if Minott is clearly better and more NBA ready than TSJ? The same goes for Miller? Why is it true that if the 27th overall pick takes a year to acclimate to the NBA before cracking a WCF rotation something has gone wrong?

2. What if it becomes clear that RD is not ready. Being picked number 6 didn’t make Culver anymore playable then being picked number 5 helped Kris Dunn. You make it sound like RD should immediately be a bucket, but we have seen guys who can score in college really struggle in the NBA (Nowell was a 44% 3 point shooter his rookie year in Iowa, but up here he was sub 20%.) Is winning less important than developing RD?

3. If we need more scoring and are okay with bad defense why not play Luka with KAT and Naz? Or Luka with KAT and Rudy? Luka may not be good for much, but he can in theory shoot. I mean if he cannot then we traded down from 37 to 53 for nothing, (the roster spot was opened for Garza.)

I think the notion of forcing RD and TSJ to contribute right away is great in theory, and unworkable in practice. They are what they are, and Finch will prioritize winning over developing them, as he should. We have two more chances at this and then everything goes to ****. I would rather maximize those chances with an elite 7 and the best free agents we can bring in, (and hopefully get something out of the young guys,) then put all are eggs on development over victory. But that is just me.

1) watching Minott in g-league this year I am kind of wondering what his role can be. Last summer he said he was working on his 3pt shot and defense. But from what I have seen he is not McDaniels type of PoA defender, and his shot is still questionable. Maybe he can play role of weakside defender? He put some weight though

2) big difference is that Rob can shoot 3s and pass while live dribbling. Something that Moore, Culver, Milton, Nowell cant. Maybe he is not ready, like Zach LaVine and Jamal Murray in their first year in NBA, when they both were 19yo rookies, but you still has to give them 15-20 minutes to develop

3) if we lose both Anderson and Morris, you have to play Dillingham and/or Shannon. Because it is not about simply scoring, outside of Edwards and Conley we wont have quality ballhandlers, and while Shannon is a mediocre ballhandler he was first offensive option in students, so Finch at least can integrate his on ball skills. For instance, Shannon often used screens to score as pick-n-roll ballhandler

It is not common, but we have seen rookies succeed in playoff teams. For instance, Lively, Christian Braun. I see your concerns and I find them legit. Thats why I believe that now it is Finch and coaching staff to get the most from rookies. Anderson, McLaughlin were Finch favourites, but it is time to move on.

1. I wasn’t so much advocating for Minott or Miller as I was pushing back against the notion that the best player shouldn’t play. That was the subtext I was getting from the message I quoted. That developing the rookies was more important than winning by playing the best young players. The truth is I have no idea who among RD, TSJ, Minott, Clark, Miller, JED (the other Edwards, now referred to as JED,) and maybe Ledee (if we make him our 3rd two way) will be the most ready to contribute. But I feel like cutting costs in free agency at the expense of contending is the typical Wolves nonsense that took them from the 03-04 Wolves to the rest of the decade Wolves. Especially in the new straight jacket that is the 2nd apron. Wasting bird rights is like punching holes on a boat and employing strangers to bail water while you cross the Atlantic. It may all be fine, or everyone might drown. My solution, don’t punch the holes and let the strangers do work that they are suited for. Or in this case develop the kids at that pace and in such a way they don’t jeopardize our two good years.

2. Rob might be the next big thing or the next big mistake. The point is we won’t know until we see him in action and even then the rookie wall is a real thing. I am not advocating for him to kept from developing, but rather don’t assume he can hit the ground running or that if he cannot that he is bust. Some guys take time. Meanwhile have a viable alternative that is not also 37 and unable to play defense (the ghost of Joe Ingles.)

3. We have two slots and two rotation slots, we should be able to find viable options. Especially with the bird rights of guys who qualify as viable options and can be traded at the midway point of the season to avoid the tax and recoup assets if they are expendable. Sign Kyle and bench his *** till February or until one of RD or TSJ need replacing. As for Monte, who replaces Mike when he retires in two years. If RD is the starter who is the backup? We traded for a PG last year on the premise that his bird rights were worth paying tax for. Now it’s time to pay tax and we are saying who needs a backup PG. Same old Wolves.

minimus wrote:Main idea: keep Towns, Conley and Gobert minutes under 30, keep pace high by giving more minutes to high energy guy such as Reid, TSJ, Miller and shot maker such as Dillingham.

Shannon role similar to Josh Green's in DAL who run in transition, fill open lanes, hit open corner threes
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JUHQWlsdiQ4

Dillingham role similar to Malik Monk's in SAC: pull up threes + passing

Watch on YouTube

Minott: similar to Peyton Watson's in DEN: active rotations, rim protection, run transition

Watch on YouTube

Conley (24) Dillingham (15) NAW (9)
ANT (32) NAW (13) Shannon (3)
McDaniels (30) Shannon (13) Minott (5)
Towns (30) Reid (12) Miller (6)
Gobert (30) Reid (18)

Garbage time: Garza-Miller-Minott-Clarke-Dillingham

Agree with that. It is very important that we keep players healthy and limiting Mike at 25 , KAT and Rudy to max 30 min is the key. Plus a good load management in April. We have a deep roster, so let's use it smartly.

winforlose wrote:

minimus wrote:

winforlose wrote:
So I have questions.

1. Why is it important that TSJ get minutes over Minott if Minott is clearly better and more NBA ready than TSJ? The same goes for Miller? Why is it true that if the 27th overall pick takes a year to acclimate to the NBA before cracking a WCF rotation something has gone wrong?

2. What if it becomes clear that RD is not ready. Being picked number 6 didn’t make Culver anymore playable then being picked number 5 helped Kris Dunn. You make it sound like RD should immediately be a bucket, but we have seen guys who can score in college really struggle in the NBA (Nowell was a 44% 3 point shooter his rookie year in Iowa, but up here he was sub 20%.) Is winning less important than developing RD?

3. If we need more scoring and are okay with bad defense why not play Luka with KAT and Naz? Or Luka with KAT and Rudy? Luka may not be good for much, but he can in theory shoot. I mean if he cannot then we traded down from 37 to 53 for nothing, (the roster spot was opened for Garza.)

I think the notion of forcing RD and TSJ to contribute right away is great in theory, and unworkable in practice. They are what they are, and Finch will prioritize winning over developing them, as he should. We have two more chances at this and then everything goes to ****. I would rather maximize those chances with an elite 7 and the best free agents we can bring in, (and hopefully get something out of the young guys,) then put all are eggs on development over victory. But that is just me.

1) watching Minott in g-league this year I am kind of wondering what his role can be. Last summer he said he was working on his 3pt shot and defense. But from what I have seen he is not McDaniels type of PoA defender, and his shot is still questionable. Maybe he can play role of weakside defender? He put some weight though

2) big difference is that Rob can shoot 3s and pass while live dribbling. Something that Moore, Culver, Milton, Nowell cant. Maybe he is not ready, like Zach LaVine and Jamal Murray in their first year in NBA, when they both were 19yo rookies, but you still has to give them 15-20 minutes to develop

3) if we lose both Anderson and Morris, you have to play Dillingham and/or Shannon. Because it is not about simply scoring, outside of Edwards and Conley we wont have quality ballhandlers, and while Shannon is a mediocre ballhandler he was first offensive option in students, so Finch at least can integrate his on ball skills. For instance, Shannon often used screens to score as pick-n-roll ballhandler

It is not common, but we have seen rookies succeed in playoff teams. For instance, Lively, Christian Braun. I see your concerns and I find them legit. Thats why I believe that now it is Finch and coaching staff to get the most from rookies. Anderson, McLaughlin were Finch favourites, but it is time to move on.

1. I wasn’t so much advocating for Minott or Miller as I was pushing back against the notion that the best player shouldn’t play. That was the subtext I was getting from the message I quoted. That developing the rookies was more important than winning by playing the best young players. The truth is I have no idea who among RD, TSJ, Minott, Clark, Miller, JED (the other Edwards, now referred to as JED,) and maybe Ledee (if we make him our 3rd two way) will be the most ready to contribute. But I feel like cutting costs in free agency at the expense of contending is the typical Wolves nonsense that took them from the 03-04 Wolves to the rest of the decade Wolves. Especially in the new straight jacket that is the 2nd apron. Wasting bird rights is like punching holes on a boat and employing strangers to bail water while you cross the Atlantic. It may all be fine, or everyone might drown. My solution, don’t punch the holes and let the strangers do work that they are suited for. Or in this case develop the kids at that pace and in such a way they don’t jeopardize our two good years.

2. Rob might be the next big thing or the next big mistake. The point is we won’t know until we see him in action and even then the rookie wall is a real thing. I am not advocating for him to kept from developing, but rather don’t assume he can hit the ground running or that if he cannot that he is bust. Some guys take time. Meanwhile have a viable alternative that is not also 37 and unable to play defense (the ghost of Joe Ingles.)

3. We have two slots and two rotation slots, we should be able to find viable options. Especially with the bird rights of guys who qualify as viable options and can be traded at the midway point of the season to avoid the tax and recoup assets if they are expendable. Sign Kyle and bench his *** till February or until one of RD or TSJ need replacing. As for Monte, who replaces Mike when he retires in two years. If RD is the starter who is the backup? We traded for a PG last year on the premise that his bird rights were worth paying tax for. Now it’s time to pay tax and we are saying who needs a backup PG. Same old Wolves.

1) well, that is why I am trying to think about possible roles & fit

- from what I have seen in g-league Minott has been trying to find himself a role as pseudo bigman who can occasionally block opponent from weakside, hit three point shot, grab rebound and run in transition. He and Miller played a lot like bigs in gleague, and if Anderson leaves they both compete for minutes in this role as stretch four comboforward. Miller has probably higher potential, but it all comes down who can defend on perimeter AND hit open three. They both needs to defend on perimeter because other than McDaniels we dont have other big wings. I define this role as Peyton Watson role

- Shannon has interesting skillset: he was 3rd best in Lane agility in 1st in Three quarter sprint at NBA draft combine measurements in 2023. He is basically has guard quickness and speed in wing body. And while not perfect he had a lot of reps as first option in offense in Illinois AND he was PoA experience defender in Texas. That's why I assume he can fit from very first moment as energy guy from bench who run in transition, shoots open corner threes, and earns FTs. MIN were 29th in fastbreak points in regular season, and 23rd in 3PA. I define this role as Josh Green / Cristian Braun role

- Rob is first ballhandler in MIN who can shoot pull up 3s and be live dribbling passer. All other guys were either non shooters or bad 3pt shooters (Rubio, Culver, Anderson, Milton, Nowell) or low volume 3pt shooter (Morris, McLaughlin, Austin Rivers, Pat Beverley, Napier). Combination of his passing and shooting stats are intriguing:

BlacJacMac wrote:Numbers I find interesting.
Dillingham: USG%: 30.3, AST%: 29.7, TO%: 13.5
Castle: USG%: 22.0, AST%: 18.4, TO%: 13.0
McCain: USG%: 21.1, AST%: 11.0, TO%: 10.1

MIN simply has not been able to get such guard in FA market or via trade. Now we have him, I would define his role as Malik Monk / Tyler Herro role

2) I am not sure either whether Rob will succeed in MIN. But as I said, we must do everything to help him probably by asking him to play through adversity and struggles. It might be rough, just like Zach LaVine and Jamal Murray first year. TC has already gambled when he got Rob. There's no point in stopping halfway through.

3) TC exactly what we needed by adding two talented players via draft, because it is only realistic way to improve this roster. Adding Rob and TSJ is making difficult to justify full MLE contract for Anderson (8-11 mil), or 5-7 mil contract for Monte. It is risk, but given all factors such as tax, 2nd apron constraints, injury history, offensive struggles etc, I can see why MIN FO is waiting here. To resign Anderson and Morris MIN need to understand their real market value, especially if we want to trade Anderson later. Why would a team consider trading for Anderson who is available now in offseason as FA? Same with Monte. I dont see TC being cheap here. Our 7 man rotation is pretty much set: Gobert-Towns-McDaniels-Edwards-Conley-Reid-NAW + TSJ-Dillingham + Miller-Minott-Clarke-Garza. I find Joe Ingles as perfect 5-10 min guy who does not need the ball, because he can still shoot and pass. From all market I wish we could get Delon Wright, who is kind of NAW clone or TBJ, because I want our rotation to have interchangeable pieces around our core. Something like BOS had with White-Holiday, just plug-n-play guys who can defend, shoot and pass:

- Gobert-Towns-McDaniels-Edwards-Conley start

- Towns-Reid is first interchangeable duo

- NAW-TSJ are 3&D guys

- Minott-Miller are energy guys

- Conley-Dillingham are ball handlers

I'd be happy to bring back Morris or Anderson, but both are probably seeking biggest contracts in their career. I understand them.

winforlose wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

winforlose wrote:
So I have questions.

1. Why is it important that TSJ get minutes over Minott if Minott is clearly better and more NBA ready than TSJ? The same goes for Miller? Why is it true that if the 27th overall pick takes a year to acclimate to the NBA before cracking a WCF rotation something has gone wrong?

2. What if it becomes clear that RD is not ready. Being picked number 6 didn’t make Culver anymore playable then being picked number 5 helped Kris Dunn. You make it sound like RD should immediately be a bucket, but we have seen guys who can score in college really struggle in the NBA (Nowell was a 44% 3 point shooter his rookie year in Iowa, but up here he was sub 20%.) Is winning less important than developing RD?

3. If we need more scoring and are okay with bad defense why not play Luka with KAT and Naz? Or Luka with KAT and Rudy? Luka may not be good for much, but he can in theory shoot. I mean if he cannot then we traded down from 37 to 53 for nothing, (the roster spot was opened for Garza.)

I think the notion of forcing RD and TSJ to contribute right away is great in theory, and unworkable in practice. They are what they are, and Finch will prioritize winning over developing them, as he should. We have two more chances at this and then everything goes to ****. I would rather maximize those chances with an elite 7 and the best free agents we can bring in, (and hopefully get something out of the young guys,) then put all are eggs on development over victory. But that is just me.

1: I'm a fan of Minott, but IMO Shannon is clearly better than Minott and probably better than Miller. Shannon was a player of the year candidate before the false charges derailed him.

2: If it becomes clear that RD is not ready sure keep him on the pines. I really doubt it will become clear that he is not ready. Culver and Dunn were bad draft picks. I believe Dilly was a good one.

3: Luka is a bucket and I'm glad we kept him, however he will be way down the pecking order for rotation. Dillingham's talent despite the extremely bad defense should be enough to make him the backup PG. Nobody I know of is forcing RD and TSJ to play. They will get rotation minutes commensurate with their talent. I sure don't want to put development over victory. I think development will lead to victory.

I think signing Luka was a huge mistake. I think there are better more win now players who will be available and that Luka is not someone you would ever put in your rotation if you had a choice. We have 7 current rotation worthy players and a ton of development pieces who have a lot to prove before they can be trusted. Losing Kyle is addition by subtraction which I am fine with. Losing his money is something I am not fine with. We need to sign him at an expensive but reasonable price point and trade him at the first opportunity. Even if we get a TPE we could use that like MLE at the deadline to either get a buyout guy or maybe sneak a more productive role player on a multi year deal and help to ensure the future. As for Monte, letting him walk not only wastes a salary slot, weakens us at the PG position, and creates a massive problem if Mike quality slides this year or next year. But, it also has the nasty consequence of forcing RD to sink or swim at 19. If we are truly that worried about 10-20 or even 20-40 million at this point we will never get where we are going. The best teams spend what it costs to give themselves the best position to win a title.

I believe you are wrong. Maybe he's our 14th guy. He's pretty good IMO for a 14th guy. I consider Dillingham, Shannon, and Miller rotation worthy players. Sure they could disappoint or they could both be RotY candidates. Are you counting any of them?

I will try this...

PG - Conley Jr (26) Dillingham (22)
SG - Edwards (35) Naw (13)
SF - McDaniels (35) FA (13)
PF - Kat (33) Naz (15)
C - Rudy (30) Naz (18)

winforlose wrote:2. Rob might be the next big thing or the next big mistake. The point is we won’t know until we see him in action and even then the rookie wall is a real thing. I am not advocating for him to kept from developing, but rather don’t assume he can hit the ground running or that if he cannot that he is bust. Some guys take time. Meanwhile have a viable alternative that is not also 37 and unable to play defense (the ghost of Joe Ingles.)

Of course, we all know that anything can happen. That's not the point of these discussions, or at least it shouldn't be.

Victor might have been the next big mistake, so was San Antonio wrong for starting him last year? That's the kind of logic you are using here in this thread. It's basically saying anything can happen, so you need to have a backup plan. Ant could fall off a cliff in Paris, so we better have a backup plan....

Norseman79 wrote:I will try this...

PG - Conley Jr (26) Dillingham (22)
SG - Edwards (35) Naw (13)
SF - McDaniels (35) FA (13)
PF - Kat (33) Naz (15)
C - Rudy (30) Naz (18)

No minutes for Shannon or Miller?
Not going to happen.

KGdaBom wrote:

winforlose wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:
1: I'm a fan of Minott, but IMO Shannon is clearly better than Minott and probably better than Miller. Shannon was a player of the year candidate before the false charges derailed him.

2: If it becomes clear that RD is not ready sure keep him on the pines. I really doubt it will become clear that he is not ready. Culver and Dunn were bad draft picks. I believe Dilly was a good one.

3: Luka is a bucket and I'm glad we kept him, however he will be way down the pecking order for rotation. Dillingham's talent despite the extremely bad defense should be enough to make him the backup PG. Nobody I know of is forcing RD and TSJ to play. They will get rotation minutes commensurate with their talent. I sure don't want to put development over victory. I think development will lead to victory.

I think signing Luka was a huge mistake. I think there are better more win now players who will be available and that Luka is not someone you would ever put in your rotation if you had a choice. We have 7 current rotation worthy players and a ton of development pieces who have a lot to prove before they can be trusted. Losing Kyle is addition by subtraction which I am fine with. Losing his money is something I am not fine with. We need to sign him at an expensive but reasonable price point and trade him at the first opportunity. Even if we get a TPE we could use that like MLE at the deadline to either get a buyout guy or maybe sneak a more productive role player on a multi year deal and help to ensure the future. As for Monte, letting him walk not only wastes a salary slot, weakens us at the PG position, and creates a massive problem if Mike quality slides this year or next year. But, it also has the nasty consequence of forcing RD to sink or swim at 19. If we are truly that worried about 10-20 or even 20-40 million at this point we will never get where we are going. The best teams spend what it costs to give themselves the best position to win a title.

I believe you are wrong. Maybe he's our 14th guy. He's pretty good IMO for a 14th guy. I consider Dillingham, Shannon, and Miller rotation worthy players. Sure they could disappoint or they could both be RotY candidates. Are you counting any of them?

You get 14 spots. He is another undersized center with defensive issues. We already have Naz and Miller who can fill that role. How about an actual defensive center who can fill in if Rudy goes down. I threw out Yurtseven as a possibility, but I am sure more are out there. I like that Luka can score against bad opponents, but he cannot defend anyone and when guys have to cover for the center everything goes to ****.

winforlose wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

winforlose wrote:
I think signing Luka was a huge mistake. I think there are better more win now players who will be available and that Luka is not someone you would ever put in your rotation if you had a choice. We have 7 current rotation worthy players and a ton of development pieces who have a lot to prove before they can be trusted. Losing Kyle is addition by subtraction which I am fine with. Losing his money is something I am not fine with. We need to sign him at an expensive but reasonable price point and trade him at the first opportunity. Even if we get a TPE we could use that like MLE at the deadline to either get a buyout guy or maybe sneak a more productive role player on a multi year deal and help to ensure the future. As for Monte, letting him walk not only wastes a salary slot, weakens us at the PG position, and creates a massive problem if Mike quality slides this year or next year. But, it also has the nasty consequence of forcing RD to sink or swim at 19. If we are truly that worried about 10-20 or even 20-40 million at this point we will never get where we are going. The best teams spend what it costs to give themselves the best position to win a title.

I believe you are wrong. Maybe he's our 14th guy. He's pretty good IMO for a 14th guy. I consider Dillingham, Shannon, and Miller rotation worthy players. Sure they could disappoint or they could both be RotY candidates. Are you counting any of them?

You get 14 spots. He is another undersized center with defensive issues. We already have Naz and Miller who can fill that role. How about an actual defensive center who can fill in if Rudy goes down. I threw out Yurtseven as a possibility, but I am sure more are out there. I like that Luka can score against bad opponents, but he cannot defend anyone and when guys have to cover for the center everything goes to ****.

Teams have to roster 14 players if I understand correctly. From players 9 to 14 teams seldom use them. Less and less as you work your way down. Signing Garza does not prevent us from signing other players. If and when he gets in games he is going to light up the scoreboard. Maybe his defense will be so bad the opposition lights up the scoreboard more. Time will tell, but probably not very much.

KGdaBom wrote:

winforlose wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:I believe you are wrong. Maybe he's our 14th guy. He's pretty good IMO for a 14th guy. I consider Dillingham, Shannon, and Miller rotation worthy players. Sure they could disappoint or they could both be RotY candidates. Are you counting any of them?

You get 14 spots. He is another undersized center with defensive issues. We already have Naz and Miller who can fill that role. How about an actual defensive center who can fill in if Rudy goes down. I threw out Yurtseven as a possibility, but I am sure more are out there. I like that Luka can score against bad opponents, but he cannot defend anyone and when guys have to cover for the center everything goes to ****.

Teams have to roster 14 players if I understand correctly. From players 9 to 14 teams seldom use them. Less and less as you work your way down. Signing Garza does not prevent us from signing other players. If and when he gets in games he is going to light up the scoreboard. Maybe his defense will be so bad the opposition lights up the scoreboard more. Time will tell, but probably not very much.

I have a better way to explain my point. If I was explaining the Wolves roster pre Garza signing to a non wolves fan, I would say we stocked at SG and PF, thin at PG, and kinda makeshift at SF and C. For the purposes of this conversation I am ignoring the 2 way guys. At SG you have Ant, NAW, Shannon, and you can put Mike off ball and run him with RD (Mike has actually played a decent of SG for us.) At the PF you have KAT, Naz, Miller, and Jaden can play small ball PF pretty easily in a pinch. He can also play big ball SG when we release the unicorns. At SF we have Jaden and Minott, but Karl, Naz, NAW, TSJ, and Ant can all play minutes at SF successfully. Center is the interesting position. Karl and Rudy should be able to cover that position for 48 minutes. But, both have tendencies to get in foul trouble when they get angry. Karl has also missed time in each of the last 4 seasons. Naz and Miller can play small ball 5 in a pinch, but having a big ball backup center is important. Luka is an undersized non rim protector who struggles with any type of defense (man, zone, switching, transition, ect…) It is just like OKC bringing in IHart at that price point, decent player for what he is, but terrible fit with what the team needs.

winforlose wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

winforlose wrote:
You get 14 spots. He is another undersized center with defensive issues. We already have Naz and Miller who can fill that role. How about an actual defensive center who can fill in if Rudy goes down. I threw out Yurtseven as a possibility, but I am sure more are out there. I like that Luka can score against bad opponents, but he cannot defend anyone and when guys have to cover for the center everything goes to ****.

Teams have to roster 14 players if I understand correctly. From players 9 to 14 teams seldom use them. Less and less as you work your way down. Signing Garza does not prevent us from signing other players. If and when he gets in games he is going to light up the scoreboard. Maybe his defense will be so bad the opposition lights up the scoreboard more. Time will tell, but probably not very much.

I have a better way to explain my point. If I was explaining the Wolves roster pre Garza signing to a non wolves fan, I would say we stocked at SG and PF, thin at PG, and kinda makeshift at SF and C. For the purposes of this conversation I am ignoring the 2 way guys. At SG you have Ant, NAW, Shannon, and you can put Mike off ball and run him with RD (Mike has actually played a decent of SG for us.) At the PF you have KAT, Naz, Miller, and Jaden can play small ball PF pretty easily in a pinch. He can also play big ball SG when we release the unicorns. At SF we have Jaden and Minott, but Karl, Naz, NAW, TSJ, and Ant can all play minutes at SF successfully. Center is the interesting position. Karl and Rudy should be able to cover that position for 48 minutes. But, both have tendencies to get in foul trouble when they get angry. Karl has also missed time in each of the last 4 seasons. Naz and Miller can play small ball 5 in a pinch, but having a big ball backup center is important. Luka is an undersized non rim protector who struggles with any type of defense (man, zone, switching, transition, ect…) It is just like OKC bringing in IHart at that price point, decent player for what he is, but terrible fit with what the team needs.

That's the way you see it and that's OK. We see things different.